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Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

Avenger

Well-known member
Veteran
No, you have it wrong. Please allow me to do my best to explain. :) I smile to show I am not trying to be an ass.:tiphat:

The grey Dim- wire should not be connected to earth ground at any point. It is isolated for a reason, galvanically isolated. why? I don't know, but it is important.

Earlier I called it 0-10 volt dimming, Philips does as well, but it should really be called analog 1-10 volt dimming control. It gets confusing if we call it 0-10 volt dimming because the theatrical lighting folks have a different protocol, where there has to be an external current source for the control circuit.

In architectural lighting the ballast does, or atleast is supposed to source the current(and 10 volt potential). Philips explains it well here, though it is fluorescent product literature, the information (other than specific circuit mA ratings) holds true for the e-vision ballast. You can use an external isolated 0-10 volt DC power source, but you do not have to in order to take advantage of the dimming feature. It really only becomes necessary when you are trying to control the dimming status from multiple points in a room or other involved control logic.



So again, yes you can use a properly sized potentiometer to control the dimming status of the Philips e-vision ballast. You just use two of the three connections, the center and either outside contact. All we are really needing is a resistive load, to sink the current and drop the control voltage signal. The variable resistance of the potentiometer or rheostat gives us variable control. If you want step dimming you can use a rotary switch(or automate with PLC) and fixed resistors that sink the appropriate current to drop the control voltage to the desired value for each dimming step.

The common dimmers they sell at lowers for incandescent are no longer rheostats, they are triac phase choppers, and thus will not work to control the 1-10 volt dimmable ballast like the e-vision, dyna-vision, quicktronnic ect.

Luckily radio shack sells potentiometers in various sizes and shapes.

Somebody smarter than me should figure out the correct math and values based off the literature that I found saying each ballast sources 0.5 mA current on the control circuit. Because I am almost certain I mis applied ohms law in my previous post.

Travel safely,
:sasmokin:
 

rives

Inveterate Tinkerer
Mentor
ICMag Donor
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Perhaps.

I played with the circuit extensively, and this is the only way that I could get it to function. It has been several years, so I don't recall the various permutations that I tried, though.

I have never seen a pot circuit that would function with a single power connection. Per the attached drawing, the wiper changes potential as it traverses from being grounded to approaching the hot leg. What you are describing would normally wind up as a pull-up or pull-down depending on whether the potentiometer resistor was attached to ground or the positive voltage.

Unfortunately I won't be able to play with the circuit for several more weeks. It would be great if your interpretation is correct - it would certainly simplify using the dimming circuit.

picture.php
 

T_B_M

Member
I'm with Rives. Just using the potentiometer as a variable resistor like Avenger describes won't drop the voltage, it only limits the current. This is without knowing the input circuit on the ballast. If it is a high impedance input, one series resistor won't do much.
 
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rives

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The literature certainly backs up what you are saying, Avenger. I vaguely remember this information from when I was playing with the dimming circuit design for my controller, but the only way that I could get it to work was via an external voltage source/control. I seem to recall thinking that there must have been some interpretation problems with the documentation.

It's interesting that the schematics from Philips do not use a potentiometer symbol, but rather a variable resistor - https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/4/5/c/a/0/51cc9e55ce395fad69000001.png

Has anyone actually gotten the dimming feature to work with these ballasts using this circuit?
 

flat9

Member
What's the current consensus on the cheapest 315 watt ballast + bulb combo. Still advanced tech? I think I'm going to order 4 kits and grow vert with 2 bulbs per 4 x 4. Any thoughts Rives et al?
 
Last I read Advanced Technology Solutions was still about the worst company in the world in terms of shipping times, responding to emails, etc. If you can wait a few months maybe it's worth the price?...

Does Custom Hydro Nutrients sell ballast and Philips 315W (GreenPower or Mastecolor 942)? I hear lots of good things about them.
 

flat9

Member
Cheers for chiming in Beta! Still thinking of heading to Oregon? What's the consensus on that?

Also, to keep this on topic, did you make a Greenbeams setup already?
 
I'm having a hard time as hell finding a good place to rent near Portland! I want to be within 1.5 hour of the city. I've got a big dog (pit bull mix) so it's not easy finding something that will work. So I haven't yet gotten the GB installed, they're still sitting in the boxes.

Once I do have them setup I'm going to do a grow log with them. The other half of BTT (a research scientist) won't be living in OR, so the testing will be done by myself.

I've got lots of bells and whistles planned for the GB grow, including Apogee 3' line quantum senor and single LI-COR quantum sensor integrated to GrowTronix (and live webcam), so it should be illumining (pun intended). I hope to get the GB grow setup by the end of the month, if I manage to find a home this month.

The first grow will be 4'x10' canopy area in a 5'x11' (or 6'x12') space using ORCA film for all walls, ceiling, and floor. I will use 6 GB units in that area.

I'm using all MasterColor 942 lamps for the whole grow, no GreenPower at all.
 
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Avenger

Well-known member
Veteran
rives said:
Has anyone actually gotten the dimming feature to work with these ballasts using this circuit?

I do not have one of these particular ballasts in hand to play with currently. I have ordered one from ATL and am talking with the local supply houses.

From the initial pricing I have been given, it will be damn near impossible to come close to ATL's pricing.

There are some in the Philips warehouse in Memphis, but the local wholesaler wants near $300 each.

Once I get one in hand, I will demonstrate dimming with the potentiometer. As I have done so with other 1-10 volt dimming fluorescent ballasts. So I know it will work as designed.

Interestingly when you google "variable resistor" pictures of potentiometers come up. ;)
 

rives

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I do not have one of these particular ballasts in hand to play with currently. I have ordered one from ATL and am talking with the local supply houses.

From the initial pricing I have been given, it will be damn near impossible to come close to ATL's pricing.

There are some in the Philips warehouse in Memphis, but the local wholesaler wants near $300 each.

Once I get one in hand, I will demonstrate dimming with the potentiometer. As I have done so with other 1-10 volt dimming fluorescent ballasts. So I know it will work as designed.

Interestingly when you google "variable resistor" pictures of potentiometers come up. ;)

Looking forward to it. I want to play around with the circuit, but as I said above, I'm away from home for the next few weeks.
 
I do not have one of these particular ballasts in hand to play with currently. I have ordered one from ATL and am talking with the local supply houses.

From the initial pricing I have been given, it will be damn near impossible to come close to ATL's pricing.

There are some in the Philips warehouse in Memphis, but the local wholesaler wants near $300 each.

Once I get one in hand, I will demonstrate dimming with the potentiometer. As I have done so with other 1-10 volt dimming fluorescent ballasts. So I know it will work as designed.

Interestingly when you google "variable resistor" pictures of potentiometers come up. ;)
I have 12 e-Vision ballasts just sitting in boxes. I can send one to you for your testing, and you can send it back once you're done. PM me if you're interested.

I'm not sure the price Cycloptics sell them for, but I could ask. I think it's around $150-200 or so when buying a GB unit, but that's mostly just a guess.
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
Finally found a good deal & ordered up- 2 ceramatec ballasts from ebay (all he had), 2 PGZ sockets from semperlite & a very good deal on T9 930's thru amazon.

When this round finishes in July I'll rework my enclosed & vented 1000w reflector into a dual bulb 630w reflector & go from there.

I'll wire it up temporary to test as soon as I get it all. I'll (hopefully) figure out the dimming on the ceramatec ballasts & post up the info.

With some ongoing help from eighths&aces, maybe my growing skills can advance to match the hardware. I have a ways to go with that, no doubt.
 
Why T9 and not T12? Are you planning to use the protective glass with the reflector?

Would be neat to have one GreenPower and one 942 (both T12) in the same reflector, without the protective glass.

I look forward to your post about dimming for the CeramaTek, because I plan to upgrade from the e-Vision ballast at some point to the CeramaTek. Would be great if the same dimming hardware can be used for both ballasts.

This picture is neat, though would be good idea to close the holes with reflective material (optimal would be WhiteOptics, though specular may be worth considering) if venting is not used:

picture.php
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
Why T9 and not T12? Are you planning to use the protective glass with the reflector?

Would be neat to have one GreenPower and one 942 (both T12) in the same reflector, without the protective glass.

I look forward to your post about dimming for the CeramaTek, because I plan to upgrade from the e-Vision ballast at some point to the CeramaTek. Would be great if the same dimming hardware can be used for both ballasts.

This picture is neat, though would be good idea to close the holes with reflective material (optimal would be WhiteOptics, though specular may be worth considering) if venting is not used:

I use two stage cooling. The heat from the reflector goes into the house in the winter & outside in the summer. There's no filter on that air circuit because I don't need it. There's a variac on the fan to control noise, a lot easier with very low restriction. I have a separate fan & carbon filter to vent the growspace itself into the space adjacent. The T9's suit my purposes just fine & they were a lot cheaper, $49.99 on Amazon.

I wouldn't use T9's in an open fixture, obviously. I really don't like open lamps because they'll instantly burn the shit out of you if you're careless. I saw a guy at a growshop awhile back with a big nasty burn on the back of his neck & up above his hairline, figure he backed into a vert bulb, ya know? Lucky his hair didn't catch on fire.

It'll be July/August before the current round finishes & I'll tear into it then.
 

fishbonez

New member
Last I read Advanced Technology Solutions was still about the worst company in the world in terms of shipping times, responding to emails, etc. If you can wait a few months maybe it's worth the price?...

I ordered 3 sets of the 315's last Thursday, have tracking information, items have been shipped. Thomas may have had some problem, but I've never had a delay in shipping from him. Would certainly order from him again.
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
I ordered 3 sets of the 315's last Thursday, have tracking information, items have been shipped. Thomas may have had some problem, but I've never had a delay in shipping from him. Would certainly order from him again.

I don't know him nor have I ever bought from him. Having hunted around, a lot, I don't think you can beat his price on new equipment.

I think he's one of us, ya know? And I think he may have had periodic problems getting stuff out quickly but he's honest by all accounts.

I've been in the position where I could be very patient & diligent waiting for the right deal on out of box/ used ballasts which I finally found but I've been moments away from sending him a query many times. If I didn't need the pgz hardware to make it work in my space I'd have ordered mogul kits from him some while back.

Killer service is always available elsewhere- at extra cost, of course. Several outfits will put a 630w system on your porch for ~$800 or more. One click away on amazon if the price doesn't scare you away.That runs counter to my purposes of saving money for what really is a hobby. The only payback I get is in the electric bill. If a 630w system will grow as well as my 1000w system, it'll save us $17-25/mo. depending on the season & the photoperiod so it won't take a long time to come out in the black for the $350 I'm spending. Less heat will be a much appreciated bonus.

I'm just a survivor from the 60's a bit enamored of growing my own, of the diversity of modern varieties & the techniques of doing it well. I'm also extremely lucky to be retired in Colorado, obviously.

Other people have different circumstances, means & reasons that justify greater upfront expense, I'm sure.
 
I don't know him nor have I ever bought from him. Having hunted around, a lot, I don't think you can beat his price on new equipment.

I think he's one of us, ya know? And I think he may have had periodic problems getting stuff out quickly but he's honest by all accounts.

I've been in the position where I could be very patient & diligent waiting for the right deal on out of box/ used ballasts which I finally found but I've been moments away from sending him a query many times. If I didn't need the pgz hardware to make it work in my space I'd have ordered mogul kits from him some while back.
Killer service is always available elsewhere- at extra cost, of course. Several outfits will put a 630w system on your porch for ~$800 or more. One click away on amazon if the price doesn't scare you away.That runs counter to my purposes of saving money for what really is a hobby. The only payback I get is in the electric bill. If a 630w system will grow as well as my 1000w system, it'll save us $17-25/mo. depending on the season & the photoperiod so it won't take a long time to come out in the black for the $350 I'm spending. Less heat will be a much appreciated bonus.

I'm just a survivor from the 60's a bit enamored of growing my own, of the diversity of modern varieties & the techniques of doing it well. I'm also extremely lucky to be retired in Colorado, obviously.

Other people have different circumstances, means & reasons that justify greater upfront expense, I'm sure.

Great Post !:tiphat:
 
I don't know him nor have I ever bought from him. Having hunted around, a lot, I don't think you can beat his price on new equipment.

Other people have different circumstances, means & reasons that justify greater upfront expense, I'm sure.
From what I see he only sells lamp and ballast, no?
 
I ordered 3 sets of the 315's last Thursday, have tracking information, items have been shipped. Thomas may have had some problem, but I've never had a delay in shipping from him. Would certainly order from him again.
While I'm not trying to impinge on your reasons for posting, that that this was your 1st post after registering in 2008 makes me wonder.

There is a long string of people who ordered from that company that complain about very slow email response, very slow shipping of orders, etc. Going back years, as far as I can tell. Some of those people have posted in this thread, as well as the original CMH thread.

Like Jhhnn wrote, if someone can wait or doesn't expect good customer service then that's great. And if that company is now on the ball that's even better.

The prices sure are great.
 
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