Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Coughie]

I doubt you will get the same results with a 315w. They dont have the same coverage and penetration the 600w has. 630w CMH vs a 1k will provide similar results. A single 315w will cover 3x3 max.

This is a decent review of the different 315w CMH bulbs ..

[youtubeif]ELjXp4iR2HI[/youtubeif]

I hear you, but I've also read, and it makes sense, that the footprint is a function of the reflector and not the bulb... So that's a nice video, but 'we' need a video that compares the same bulb, the same conversion kit, with various already-offered hoods on-the-market.

The hood I'm using, Magnum XXXL, is also a horizontal bulb as opposed to the vertical bulb set ups of the LEC set ups, so that's going to change the reflectivity of the light as well.

I appreciate the heads up, on both the footprint and the penetration values of the 315w vs 600w, but for my particular situation, I'm okay with using the inner 3'x3' of a 4'x 4' for cannabis and using the outer perimeter for other plants, if that's how it works. I want to see, using my particular set up, though, how far towards the perimeter I can go before the flowers aren't what they should be.

I'm wondering, if with the right reflector, and turning the bulb, if you can't lower the intensity in the middle and spread that intensity around the perimeter.. Vertical or horizontal, the bulb should produce the same amount of light, so then isn't it a question of how effectively you can spread that amount of light, while minimizing the losses due to reflection?

I don't presume to know more than the lighting companies with their R&D, but I do know that an open hood wont work for my situation, a vertical bulb wont work for my situation, and keeping the dual 600's isn't going to work for me (heat).

 

[Hammerhead]

Your not gonna get the same yield from a 315w bulb regardless of reflector used. It just cant penetrate like a 600 can IMO.. I use 315w bulbs in a few different Reflectors some vertical some horizontal. There was some PAR testing done with a Phantom vs Cycloptics. Phantom had higher PAR readings. That data is in this thread.

That's a GE lamp, right? They've been selling that for a pretty long time. It's spectrum isn't close to the old Philips retro... can't remember if it's open rated or not .

CMH bulbs need to use a LFSWB to run properly. That ballast is a standard cap/coil HPS ballast. I dont think they are using CMH properly?? It looks like a MH conversion. CMH are not the same. I only know of 3 wattage's for CMH 315, 630, 860 watts. Maybe this is the old tech?

 

[Coughie]

Well, I've essentially been using the inner 3' x 3' of a 4' x 4' anyway, but doing it with a 600w HPS and a horizontal trellis... I put (3-4) 2-5-gallon ladies into a 150-gallon smart pot centered in the 4' x 4', and rarely do they cover the whole trellis.

Rarely, because I let them grow vertical instead of train them horizontal, and have used the trellis more for support than for scrogging.. Everything under the screen comes off already, and I can keep above-the-screen limited to something in the 12-16 inch height range.. So it's just a change-of-use from a support system to an actual scrog screen, and I wont need the 600w-penetration to pull the same, theoretically..

But because I really haven't been utilizing the tent to it's full capacity, and the 600's I've been using have actually been creating environmental stresses... I'm not sure that my harvests will change all that much if the 315w "brings it" in a 3' x 3' area like it's suggested.

And then considering, due to the environment, that I've been surviving on one-of-two of the 600s lately, I'll be able to run both at 315w, with happier plants, and essentially double the number of plants I'm able to flower at any given time...

So again lol, I hear you, but for this situation, it still feels like I'm winning, which is why I asked more about which conversion kit to go with over the long haul, and not whether it was worth it to buy a conversion kit or not..

If it doesn't work, a conversion kit wont put me out as much, and it's easy to revert back to the 600's and figure out a different option for my environmental problems.

 

[rives]

Hey thanks for the reply rives! That is def a sexy looking ballast enclosure - what level of skill and/or tools are required to build something like that? I am pretty much a beginner at DIY fabrication but am gonna do whatever it takes to get this operational.

Regarding the power cord issue, maybe this is a dumb question but since the transformer only has one 220v outlet, how would I run two power cords? I did a quick google search but didn't see anything like a plug-in 240/220v single to double outlet adapter? What would be your thinking on this?

It probably got lost in the shuffle in my previous post, but assuming I'm going to be switching 120v input to transformer (since lights will be on same schedule and want to avoid transformer being energized unnecessarily when lights are off), what are my acceptable timer/switching options?

One more question for now - regarding grounding of the ballast. The internal components of the ballast are already grounded to the ballast case, as seen in this screen grab from ATL video:
View Image
Just for clarity, the ballast case must still be grounded to an external enclosure/reflector?

Building the ballast enclosure doesn't seem like it's overly difficult to me, but I am a retired industrial electrician. The biggest issue is laying everything out so that it all works within the space that you have. The tools are a different issue - there are obviously hand tools required, a drill motor and bits, files, and some specialty stuff for the larger holes.

For the 240v distribution, you can either build it up yourself or purchase one similar to the following link - https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/91833/GROW-BACDE24012.html

For the timer, take a look at the Intermatic T-101 or 103 timers. They are motor-driven, so they will lose their setting if the power goes off, but they are very heavy duty. You will be switching two ballasts and the transformer simultaneously, so the inrush current is going to be very high and will wipe out a plug-in digital timer in short order. If you need the accuracy and battery backup of a digital timer, you would need to drive a power relay with the digital timer and use the relay to switch the heavy load.

Yes, the ballast is grounded. However, EVERYTHING needs to be bonded together in order to insure ground integrity all the way through the circuit. This means that every piece of equipment, from the wall receptacle to the reflector, has a ground connection that will be electrically continuous from one end to the other. This is critical for the circuit protection to function properly as well as to eliminate the shock hazard.

 

[HorseBadoritiz]

CMH bulbs need to use a LFSWB to run properly. That ballast is a standard cap/coil HPS ballast. I dont think they are using CMH properly?? It looks like a MH conversion. CMH are not the same. I only know of 3 wattage's for CMH 315, 630, 860 watts. Maybe this is the old tech?

Old tech for old guys, I'm still running one, hahahaha! CMH/CDM/LEC nomenclature has always confused me, lol! Philips no longer makes their 400W CMH/CDM, and yes, it did take a mag HPS ballast... same as that ge lamp which isn't the best for growing pot.

When I first got into the CMH's, I got a MH ballast, d'oh... CMH, MH come on, lol! That's when I found out Philips does make a 330W CMH/CDM that does work on a mag MH, lol! Are you totally confused yet?

 

[Jhhnn]

Your not gonna get the same yield from a 315w bulb regardless of reflector used. It just cant penetrate like a 600 can IMO.. I use 315w bulbs in a few different Reflectors some vertical some horizontal. There was some PAR testing done with a Phantom vs Cycloptics. Phantom had higher PAR readings. That data is in this thread.





CMH bulbs need to use a LFSWB to run properly. That ballast is a standard cap/coil HPS ballast. I dont think they are using CMH properly?? It looks like a MH conversion. CMH are not the same. I only know of 3 wattage's for CMH 315, 630, 860 watts. Maybe this is the old tech?

The Philips 210/315 CDM family was created for electronic square wave ballasts but there are other CMH lamps designed for mag ballasts. Depending on the particular lamp, they're screw in high efficiency replacements for HPS or MH lamps in commercial applications. They're intermediate tech, not the watt for watt equal of the CDM system. I use a philips 330w CMH lamp on a 400w MH ballast for veggie starts in the Spring. Works great. Their 205w & 860w lamps are also designed for 250w & 1000w MH ballasts as well.

The 400w GE CMH lamp & some other CMH lamps are designed to be the same thing, better replacement lamps for existing commercial mag ballast installations. Better color rendition. Longer life. More light per watt.

The Philips CDM family is a cut above that.

 

[phrank]

Best CMH

Best CMH

Who makes the "best" 315 watt CMH? If you had to buy one:

Hydropharm
Cycloptics
Sunlight Supply

 

[Jhhnn]

Who makes the "best" 315 watt CMH? If you had to buy one:

Hydropharm
Cycloptics
Sunlight Supply

The "best" ballasts are probably genuine Philips, industrial grade, but they need 200-277 VAC or a step up transformer for 120 VAC.

I don't know which makers use them. It's somewhere back in the thread.

 

[HUGE]

The sunlight commercial has the Phillips ballast. That's what I would recommend.

 

[phrank]

Follow up question...

Follow up question...

I will look into the Sunlight version a little more...

Just found out that Nanolux makes a sweet CMH 315 too

Gonna stick one of these bad boys in my 3'x3' Gorilla tent...

Woot!

 

[IntotheGreen]

Thanks again rives, awesome info as always! I'm definitely seeing the vision more clearly now. For the enclosures, should I be looking for some kind of pre-made box to start or am I gonna have to be bending sheet metal and whatnot lol?

 

[timmur]

Growers Choice 630W DE Double Ended CMH

Growers Choice 630W DE Double Ended CMH

What's the word on Growers Choice 630W DE Double Ended CMH? Anybody know of any testing performed or grow logs? It seems like using a standard DE ballast with these would be an issue.

 

[GET MO]

What's the word on Growers Choice 630W DE Double Ended CMH? Anybody know of any testing performed or grow logs? It seems like using a standard DE ballast with these would be an issue.

we been discussing them on this thread for uh lil minute. Couple people testing them out right now...

 

[rives]

Thanks again rives, awesome info as always! I'm definitely seeing the vision more clearly now. For the enclosures, should I be looking for some kind of pre-made box to start or am I gonna have to be bending sheet metal and whatnot lol?

There are lots of ready-made electrical enclosures available in aluminum, steel, plastic and fiberglass. I prefer metal ones for grounding and aluminum in particular for ballasts because of the heat transfer, but all of them are available from electrical suppliers, the big box stores, ebay, etc.

 

[timmur]

we been discussing them on this thread for uh lil minute. Couple people testing them out right now...

Oops, I hadn't noticed that! Thanks.

 

[Hammerhead]

I have 1 of those 630 de bulbs on the way. I will test it in the 5x5 where the 630 LEC is. I will compare the results.

 

[Blazeee]

I had a small problem with my d papillon 630 last night, anyone got any idea of what may have caused this?

I heard the light shutting off last night about 3-4 hours before it was supposed to, so i opened the tent to check and it had turned off.

My first thought was that there may have been a problem with the timer, so i turned the timer to the off position and unplugged it.

Left the lamp for about 15-20 mins, checked all the pegs on the timer to make sure one hadn't came out of position. Manualy set it to the off position, plugged the timer back in and then turned it to the on position and the light wouldnt light up.

So i thought there may have been a problem with the timer. I unplugged the timer from my veg tent and swapped them around.

Plugged the d pap in to the other timer, turned it to the on position and only one of the bulbs light up, the one furthest away from the ballast. I left the light on like this for around 10 mins just to check if the other bulb would light up, but it didnt.

So i thought alright then maybe one of the bulbs has gone, i had bought this light used, but i have been using it for about 6 months and it has worked fine so far no problems at all.

I have read on other forums that when the bulb goes, the little round eye bit in the middle goes black and burns out, seen a few pics on UK forums were people have been using cheaper ballasts and bulbs and their bulbs have just kept blowing etc.

So i looked at the bulb and it looked identical to the working one, didnt look like it had died. Ive got a spare bulb so thats not an issue.

Anyway i just turned the lamp off and unplugged it for the rest of the night, the girls only lost out on 3 hours.

I was planning on changing the bulb today. So i tried the light one more time before planning to change the bulb and both the bulbs lit up. I left the light on for about 10 mins before turning off as the plants were currently in the dark period at that time.

The original timer that i was using with the lamp wasn't faulty as i plugged it in to my veg tent and it has worked fine.

So does anyone have any idea what may have caused this or what could have happened?

It is worth noting that once the light shut off the ballast was really hot to the touch, i was thinking maybe the lamp could have over heated and shut off, but that doesnt explain why one bulb lit up and the other didnt, yet today both bubs lit up?

Once the lamp comes on today i will keep an eye on it just incase it stops working again and report back if there are any more issues and ive still got the spare bulb just incase one of them stops working again.

 

[krunchbubble]

What's the word on Growers Choice 630W DE Double Ended CMH? Anybody know of any testing performed or grow logs? It seems like using a standard DE ballast with these would be an issue.

I have 1 of those 630 de bulbs on the way. I will test it in the 5x5 where the 630 LEC is. I will compare the results.

I would not mess with them, the spectrum is way off...

 

[Hammerhead]

Unplug the power and Light cords wait 15 min replug in the cords. Plug the light directly into a power source no timers used. See what happens. If this doesn't fire you have a ballast issue. If you have a spare ballast that can be set to 400w you can test the bulbs with this. Don't leave them running. Test 1 bulb at a time if its a dual bulb unit. This will help point you in the proper direction...

Its already on the way Krunch. Too late to not start some tests with it. Here si the Spectrum of the 4200 that will be tested.

This is the 3100k witch I did not get..

 

[krunchbubble]

Unplug the power and Light cords wait 15 min replug in the cords. Plug the light directly into a power source no timers used. See what happens. If this doesn't fire you have a ballast issue. If you have a spare ballast that can be set to 400w you can test the bulbs with this. Don't leave them running. Test 1 bulb at a time if its a dual bulb unit. This will help point you in the proper direction...

Its already on the way Krunch. Too late to not start some tests with it. Here si the Spectrum of the 4200 that will be tested.

View Image


This is the 3100k witch I did not get..
View Image

I only saw that 3100, the other one looks good...