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Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)
- Thread starter rives
- Start date
I'm sure the 630 DE cdm is a good bulb but we need some testing with them. I spoke to them months ago about it. They wanted full retail on bulbs I wasn't ready to spend 140$ on them without some results. I'm running a mixed spectrum HPS/CDM. When I'm standing at the door. I can see what plants are getting the light from the CDM by the leaves reaction. Plants just love the spectrum from the 930/942 bulbs.
Oti$ are u using those semi new 630w DE cdm bulbs??. I would like to here some basic personal flowering opinions on them..
Oti$ are u using those semi new 630w DE cdm bulbs??. I would like to here some basic personal flowering opinions on them..
oti$
Active member
I misunderstood, I didn't realize we were talking about the de cmh bulb.I have no experience with the de cmh, but I am curious about them as well. I want to try a couple in the flex 750's I recently bought. I am going to do a couple runs with them before I try cmh bulbs so I can feel them out and see what I think of the gavitas. Had I finished a run with my cmh fixtures before buying the gavitas I don't know that I would have bothered with de's.
Whom ever does some testing with them please post your findings.. I want to see how the plants respond. I use Phillips 942/930 bulbs. I have a spare 315 mogul base for emergency's. It was a cheap bulb. handling it you can tell.. Have not tried any of the other 315 bulbs like Ushio, Green power and others. These are all 15$ more then Phillips bulbs. Don't understand that.
They cost more because they're New! New! New! And Mo' Bettah!
I'm doin' great with T9 930's. At the time, they were just the cheapest. I'll just stick with them or Philips 942's when I re-lamp in a year or so. Copies are seldom better than the originals.
HorseBadoritiz
Active member
Does anyone have a a link to a good price on a good quality PGZX18 base? If not that, how about good price on the mogul based 315, lol! $30 bucks for a lamp base just seems a little high to me, and it's time for me to re-lamp my ATS kits now that it seems Tom is gone. I'd love to see if there's any difference with some 3100K's!
I bought these-
http://semperlite.com/products/lampholders/main.php?PR_ProductID=3811
They raised the price by $5. They're PGZ rather than PGZX so they'll fit any 315.
I'm with ya on that. Will stay with 942's for most.. I like the 930/942 combo in the 630. I will keep a spare 930 for that.
This is the only mogul I can find worth buying. The cheap 1 I found on Amazon is no longer offered.
https://www.amazon.com/Philips-Mast...sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Mogul+base+315+phillips
maryjane481
Member
Check out this site for CMH lamps.
http://www.customhydronutrients.com/philips-c-3_17_412.html
They seem to have both mogul and pgzx.
http://www.customhydronutrients.com/philips-c-3_17_412.html
They seem to have both mogul and pgzx.
One_love_420
New member
This seems like a pretty good deal to get started using CMH, what do you guys think? Is this worth getting?
http://growershouse.com/ceramic-science-315w-cmh-light-conversion-kit
http://growershouse.com/ceramic-science-315w-cmh-light-conversion-kit
I have 1 of those. it works fine.
i've been lurking for a while, time to check in 
many thanks to all the contributors on the thread.
finally pulled the trigger on some 315s. phantom hoods/prism balasts/philips bulbs.
i'm psyched!
many thanks to all the contributors on the thread.finally pulled the trigger on some 315s. phantom hoods/prism balasts/philips bulbs.
i'm psyched!
IntotheGreen
Active member
Hello all, it's been almost a year since I was in here seeking advice on a new setup for a couple 315s. For various reasons it hasn't materialized yet but I finally have the opportunity now to get this show on the road and am back with a couple questions about the install that I'd love some perspective on. Here's a picture of the space, with one reflector hanging in place already. The 2nd unit will go in the opposite side. At bottom right is the wall outlet that will provide power and a 1000w susd transformer to convert to 220v:
Since the transformer only has a 4ft cord, and it obviously can't sit on the floor in the closet/growspace, seems like that is the only place for it to go. So with the transformer position fixed, the next step is deciding where to place the ballasts. Obviously they need to be wired in parallel to the power cord so they need to be relatively close together, and since the 6ft lamp cord limit necessitates locating the ballasts inside the closet, the way I see it there are basically 4 options.
Option 1)
Option 2)
Option 3)
Option 4)
continued in the next post...
Since the transformer only has a 4ft cord, and it obviously can't sit on the floor in the closet/growspace, seems like that is the only place for it to go. So with the transformer position fixed, the next step is deciding where to place the ballasts. Obviously they need to be wired in parallel to the power cord so they need to be relatively close together, and since the 6ft lamp cord limit necessitates locating the ballasts inside the closet, the way I see it there are basically 4 options.
Option 1)
Option 2)
Option 3)
Option 4)
continued in the next post...
IntotheGreen
Active member
Mounting the ballast directly on top of the reflector hood seems to be pretty popular, and seems to make sense but I'm not sure that the leads are long enough for both to reach a common midpoint to join with the power cord. Also if mounting on reflector do I have to mechanically attach the ballast to the hood, or could it just be set on top? Maybe just slide one of the mounting bracket holes around one of the little screws already sticking out of the top of the reflector and put a nut on top?
In general I'm also wondering about where and how to attach junction boxes for the wiring connections also, this being the first time I'm assembling a system from scratch, so all suggestions are welcome. Not sure if maybe those reflector screws or hanging hooks preclude proper mounting/junction box placement either..
With option 2 the ballasts would be above on the shelf, which I guess could work if they can't go on the reflector.
In option 3 I would hang them below the shelf with some kind of bracket, which might make the lead lengths easier to deal with - though another thing I'm not quite sure of is what kind of strain relief is necessary here and whether that will affect my workable lead length?
These first 3 options all rely on bringing the incoming power cord to the center of the space and connecting to the ballasts there, which is based on my thinking of using a simple mogul socket
and wiring the socket leads directly to the ballast output. Doing that initially appears to be the simplest, cheapest option, and also seems to make sense considering most pre-made lamp cordsets are longer than the 6ft Philips limit. But this raises other issues such as how do I mount the simple mogul in the reflector which is made for this type assembly, attaching with the 4 screws on the corners:
If I use just the simple mogul socket, would I have to essentially attach a similar octagon-type box at its base to make the wiring connections anyway, as well as to mount it to the reflector? In that case, I am almost leaning toward just buying the factory-assembled version and just cutting the cord down under the 6ft limit. I do like the look and polish of the pre-made assembly, and it would definitely simplify the socket mounting process. Going this route would allow me to employ option 4, in which both ballasts would be positioned at the end of the closet nearest the incoming power. This option allows me to position the ballasts as close as necessary to each other for the power connection, and gives me a lamp cord longer than just the ballast/socket leads to work with. I suppose I could still keep the ballasts close enough to each other in the center (opt. 2/3) to make the power connection, however based on how far apart the reflectors need to be for even light coverage, doing so might prevent wiring the ballast output directly to the socket leads on the basic mogul. I would then need to wire in some length of additional lamp cord anyway (although I think I've seen some moguls online with 18" leads, which might be long enough..) I guess if the only real advantage to using just the basic socket is the $5.50 price tag vs. $20 for the pre-made assembly then I might as well make my life easier and spend the extra few bucks. I suppose it would also give me more flexibility for possible future setups to retain the 6ft of cord length on the factory socket assembly that is readily compatible with a wide range of reflectors. What do you guys think?
My other main question is about the proper timer to use in this setup. I got some feedback on this issue when I was posting a year ago, and as I read back through the thread I've seen it touched on a few times, but I'm still not entirely sure what the best option is. As I stated above I'll be running both lamps on the same cycle so it seems most logical to switch the 120v input to the transformer. What is required to do this? I would like to keep costs down as much as possible (duh), but also do not want to sacrifice quality. Simpler is also probably better at this point. I live in a big city and power outage has never been an issue, so perhaps an Intermatic type is best? If so, which model?
Again I hugely appreciate any advice this forum has to offer, and I sincerely thank all of you for the amazing collection of knowledge here. Meanwhile, as I've been typing these stupidly long posts, my 2nd 315 has arrived!
I think these mogul bulbs are absolutely beautiful - can't wait to get them fired up! One interesting thing I noticed upon opening the new bulb just now is that it is juuuust a little different than the other one which I got last year from Tom at ATL. Since it seems he's disappeared at least for the time being, I ordered this bulb from the $79 amazon link. I noticed almost immediately that the new bulb is slightly fatter than the other one, and the metal loop around the top nipple of the bulb is slightly wider, and hence rattles a little more when I move it around. Looking at the stamping at the base of the bulb, the ATL bulb was made in the USA, while the new one from Amazon was made in China. They both are clearly marked and packaged as Philips, and the construction does seem nearly identical, save for the details I just mentioned... I just hope that the looser tip loop will not be an issue. Don't know if Philips has outsourced production or if they've always made some of these bulbs in China; the box says this one was manufactured in April 2014 so it's been more than 2 yrs at least. Hopefully it functions the same as the US-made lamp, but in any case will be interesting to see if there's any detectable difference.
In general I'm also wondering about where and how to attach junction boxes for the wiring connections also, this being the first time I'm assembling a system from scratch, so all suggestions are welcome. Not sure if maybe those reflector screws or hanging hooks preclude proper mounting/junction box placement either..
With option 2 the ballasts would be above on the shelf, which I guess could work if they can't go on the reflector.
In option 3 I would hang them below the shelf with some kind of bracket, which might make the lead lengths easier to deal with - though another thing I'm not quite sure of is what kind of strain relief is necessary here and whether that will affect my workable lead length?
These first 3 options all rely on bringing the incoming power cord to the center of the space and connecting to the ballasts there, which is based on my thinking of using a simple mogul socket
and wiring the socket leads directly to the ballast output. Doing that initially appears to be the simplest, cheapest option, and also seems to make sense considering most pre-made lamp cordsets are longer than the 6ft Philips limit. But this raises other issues such as how do I mount the simple mogul in the reflector which is made for this type assembly, attaching with the 4 screws on the corners:
If I use just the simple mogul socket, would I have to essentially attach a similar octagon-type box at its base to make the wiring connections anyway, as well as to mount it to the reflector? In that case, I am almost leaning toward just buying the factory-assembled version and just cutting the cord down under the 6ft limit. I do like the look and polish of the pre-made assembly, and it would definitely simplify the socket mounting process. Going this route would allow me to employ option 4, in which both ballasts would be positioned at the end of the closet nearest the incoming power. This option allows me to position the ballasts as close as necessary to each other for the power connection, and gives me a lamp cord longer than just the ballast/socket leads to work with. I suppose I could still keep the ballasts close enough to each other in the center (opt. 2/3) to make the power connection, however based on how far apart the reflectors need to be for even light coverage, doing so might prevent wiring the ballast output directly to the socket leads on the basic mogul. I would then need to wire in some length of additional lamp cord anyway (although I think I've seen some moguls online with 18" leads, which might be long enough..) I guess if the only real advantage to using just the basic socket is the $5.50 price tag vs. $20 for the pre-made assembly then I might as well make my life easier and spend the extra few bucks. I suppose it would also give me more flexibility for possible future setups to retain the 6ft of cord length on the factory socket assembly that is readily compatible with a wide range of reflectors. What do you guys think?
My other main question is about the proper timer to use in this setup. I got some feedback on this issue when I was posting a year ago, and as I read back through the thread I've seen it touched on a few times, but I'm still not entirely sure what the best option is. As I stated above I'll be running both lamps on the same cycle so it seems most logical to switch the 120v input to the transformer. What is required to do this? I would like to keep costs down as much as possible (duh), but also do not want to sacrifice quality. Simpler is also probably better at this point. I live in a big city and power outage has never been an issue, so perhaps an Intermatic type is best? If so, which model?
Again I hugely appreciate any advice this forum has to offer, and I sincerely thank all of you for the amazing collection of knowledge here. Meanwhile, as I've been typing these stupidly long posts, my 2nd 315 has arrived!
I think these mogul bulbs are absolutely beautiful - can't wait to get them fired up! One interesting thing I noticed upon opening the new bulb just now is that it is juuuust a little different than the other one which I got last year from Tom at ATL. Since it seems he's disappeared at least for the time being, I ordered this bulb from the $79 amazon link. I noticed almost immediately that the new bulb is slightly fatter than the other one, and the metal loop around the top nipple of the bulb is slightly wider, and hence rattles a little more when I move it around. Looking at the stamping at the base of the bulb, the ATL bulb was made in the USA, while the new one from Amazon was made in China. They both are clearly marked and packaged as Philips, and the construction does seem nearly identical, save for the details I just mentioned... I just hope that the looser tip loop will not be an issue. Don't know if Philips has outsourced production or if they've always made some of these bulbs in China; the box says this one was manufactured in April 2014 so it's been more than 2 yrs at least. Hopefully it functions the same as the US-made lamp, but in any case will be interesting to see if there's any detectable difference.
Your ballasts need to be mounted inside of an enclosure to provide the necessary strain relief and protect the wiring from mechanical damage, as well as the necessary grounding protection. They can then either be mounted directly to the reflectors or kept remote, but tying them together to facilitate power distribution will severely limit your options later - running separate power cords back to the transformer would allow you far more flexibility.
Any exposed wiring needs to be SO cord between the ballast and socket, or SJ for the ballast power. Individual wires, and the power connections, have to be protected inside of a junction box or raceway and any transition to exposed cords need strain relief. This applies to both the ballast wiring and the sockets.
This is a picture of how I set up my remote ballasts. The straight plug is for the incoming 240v and the twist-lock is for the connection to the reflector.
Any exposed wiring needs to be SO cord between the ballast and socket, or SJ for the ballast power. Individual wires, and the power connections, have to be protected inside of a junction box or raceway and any transition to exposed cords need strain relief. This applies to both the ballast wiring and the sockets.
This is a picture of how I set up my remote ballasts. The straight plug is for the incoming 240v and the twist-lock is for the connection to the reflector.
Coughie
Member
I'm looking at moving from a 600w HPS --> 315w LEC/CMH
If I wanted to stay air-cooled, it seems like there's two options:
- Phantom 315w LEC/CMH + optional ventilation kit
or
- Current Hood Retrofit kit
I'm leaning towards retrofitting the hoods I already have, but is the Phantom set-up money better-spent over the long run?
And if the retrofit kit is acceptable for the long run, is there a justification for the price difference between these two options:
http://growershouse.com/ceramic-science-315w-cmh-light-conversion-kit
https://www.cycloptics.com/node/68
It's not a very large $ difference, but I want quality at least.. I don't want the cheapest route, just to make it work, only to pass up on something marginally more expensive that works out better over the long run..
Thanks to anyone who can help me out here
If I wanted to stay air-cooled, it seems like there's two options:
- Phantom 315w LEC/CMH + optional ventilation kit
or
- Current Hood Retrofit kit
I'm leaning towards retrofitting the hoods I already have, but is the Phantom set-up money better-spent over the long run?
And if the retrofit kit is acceptable for the long run, is there a justification for the price difference between these two options:
http://growershouse.com/ceramic-science-315w-cmh-light-conversion-kit
https://www.cycloptics.com/node/68
It's not a very large $ difference, but I want quality at least.. I don't want the cheapest route, just to make it work, only to pass up on something marginally more expensive that works out better over the long run..
Thanks to anyone who can help me out here
Last edited:
I doubt you will get the same results with a 315w. They dont have the same coverage and penetration the 600w has. 630w CMH vs a 1k will provide similar results. A single 315w will cover 3x3 max.
This is a decent review of the different 315w CMH bulbs ..
[youtubeif]ELjXp4iR2HI[/youtubeif]
When did HTG start making 400w CMH bulbs?. Is this BS
http://www.htgsupply.com/products/htg-supply-400w-ceramic-metal-halide-grow-light
This is a decent review of the different 315w CMH bulbs ..
[youtubeif]ELjXp4iR2HI[/youtubeif]
When did HTG start making 400w CMH bulbs?. Is this BS
http://www.htgsupply.com/products/htg-supply-400w-ceramic-metal-halide-grow-light
Last edited:
HorseBadoritiz
Active member
That's a GE lamp, right? They've been selling that for a pretty long time. It's spectrum isn't close to the old Philips retro... can't remember if it's open rated or not .
IntotheGreen
Active member
Hey thanks for the reply rives! That is def a sexy looking ballast enclosure - what level of skill and/or tools are required to build something like that? I am pretty much a beginner at DIY fabrication but am gonna do whatever it takes to get this operational.
Regarding the power cord issue, maybe this is a dumb question but since the transformer only has one 220v outlet, how would I run two power cords? I did a quick google search but didn't see anything like a plug-in 240/220v single to double outlet adapter? What would be your thinking on this?
It probably got lost in the shuffle in my previous post, but assuming I'm going to be switching 120v input to transformer (since lights will be on same schedule and want to avoid transformer being energized unnecessarily when lights are off), what are my acceptable timer/switching options?
One more question for now - regarding grounding of the ballast. The internal components of the ballast are already grounded to the ballast case, as seen in this screen grab from ATL video:
Just for clarity, the ballast case must still be grounded to an external enclosure/reflector?
Thanks again for all the help - I got my 2nd ballast the other day as well, just need another reflector, sockets, timer, power cord(s), and gotta figure out ballast mounting/enclosure situation! Super pumped to see these bad boys fire up for the first time!
Regarding the power cord issue, maybe this is a dumb question but since the transformer only has one 220v outlet, how would I run two power cords? I did a quick google search but didn't see anything like a plug-in 240/220v single to double outlet adapter? What would be your thinking on this?
It probably got lost in the shuffle in my previous post, but assuming I'm going to be switching 120v input to transformer (since lights will be on same schedule and want to avoid transformer being energized unnecessarily when lights are off), what are my acceptable timer/switching options?
One more question for now - regarding grounding of the ballast. The internal components of the ballast are already grounded to the ballast case, as seen in this screen grab from ATL video:
Just for clarity, the ballast case must still be grounded to an external enclosure/reflector?
Thanks again for all the help - I got my 2nd ballast the other day as well, just need another reflector, sockets, timer, power cord(s), and gotta figure out ballast mounting/enclosure situation! Super pumped to see these bad boys fire up for the first time!
