Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Unclecrash]

Putting together one more.

 

[dank.frank]

I'm running ~45w/ft2 in a 5x9 tent w/open luminaires. It takes 2-6" maxpros exhausting, and 2-6" maxfans on intake to maintain reasonable temps with the lights on(77-84F).

That just seems excessive to me. I suppose if you aren't using any A/C...not to say it isn't.

I used to run sealed 2k and it only took 8,000 btu a/c and six inch fan on a filter circulating air between the flower and veg rooms. Exhausted into the veg room and drew the air passively back into the flowering room.

I couldn't imagine the amount of noise it would create running 4 - 6" max fans. It has to sound like an airport in that small of a space...

But reading that really makes me question my notion of trying to cool one of these with passive intake and no direct A/C in the flowering chamber...especially in a 2.5' x 2.5'. When I ran a 400w in a 2x2, but it had it's own 5,000 btu A/C so it was never an issue...



dank.Frank

 

[rives]

That just seems excessive to me. I suppose if you aren't using any A/C...not to say it isn't.

I used to run sealed 2k and it only took 8,000 btu a/c and six inch fan on a filter circulating air between the flower and veg rooms. Exhausted into the veg room and drew the air passively back into the flowering room.

I couldn't imagine the amount of noise it would create running 4 - 6" max fans. It has to sound like an airport in that small of a space...

But reading that really makes me question my notion of trying to cool one of these with passive intake and no direct A/C in the flowering chamber...especially in a 2.5' x 2.5'. When I ran a 400w in a 2x2, but it had it's own 5,000 btu A/C so it was never an issue...



dank.Frank

I run a 2.5' x 2.5' with a single air-cooled 315 in a house with no A/C. It uses a passive inlet, my fan is rated at 110 cfm and is controlled by a temperature-sensing speed-controller. It rarely kicks up to full speed. Temperature in the tent is about 4 degrees over ambient, and the hood itself is cool to the touch.

YMMV

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Have not encountered the foxtailing issue. It's almost always due to a sudden change in nutrients, like flushing or high temperatures.

[URL=http://i.imgur.com/m3sHYI3l.jpg]View Image[/url]

Thank you for the picture.. and yes, I agree. Most foxtail issues I've had are because of the problems you mentioned, I questioned him about heat issues, and supposedly the CMH user was one of the best he's seen, his plants are always perfect, except for the foxtails So it must be the light

If you ask me, I think the people having problems are running it like an air cooled fixture, So I can see heat stress causing this, I dont really run high PK much these days or do I flush.. Its more like a taper off..

So what is your suggested distance from the light?.

 

[LastHurrah]

my fan is rated at 110 cfm and is controlled by a temperature-sensing speed-controller.

Hiya Rives. Which speed controller would that be?

LH

 

[rives]

Hiya Rives. Which speed controller would that be?

LH

It is a GroZone Temp-2V

 

[LastHurrah]

Thanks man!

 

[Hammerhead]

I have a 8" on the 630 in my 5x5. it will keep the temp at ambient. I cant do any better then that because the veg room is exposed to outdoor temps and the roof is Metal. It can get SUPER HOT out there. I have the lights on high temp shut off set at 90f.

 

[Ez Rider]

That just seems excessive to me. I suppose if you aren't using any A/C...not to say it isn't.

I used to run sealed 2k and it only took 8,000 btu a/c and six inch fan on a filter circulating air between the flower and veg rooms. Exhausted into the veg room and drew the air passively back into the flowering room.

I couldn't imagine the amount of noise it would create running 4 - 6" max fans. It has to sound like an airport in that small of a space...

But reading that really makes me question my notion of trying to cool one of these with passive intake and no direct A/C in the flowering chamber...especially in a 2.5' x 2.5'. When I ran a 400w in a 2x2, but it had it's own 5,000 btu A/C so it was never an issue...



dank.Frank

No AC, just ambient air. The tent sits in a very well ventilated room. I'm not saying the intake/exhaust fans are quiet, but they aren't very loud either. I have a 20" box fan exhausting out a window in the next room, and a wall fan oscillating in the room with the tent. I honestly can't hear the tent's intake/exhaust over the 2 "normal" fans. I'd have the window and wall fans running regardless, so that noise is something I'd live with anyway. I do put homemade mufflers on each end of the inlines. I also run 8" duct off of the mufflers instead of 6". This reduces the noise significantly, without reducing airflow. Finally, I wrap the fans themselves in large memory foam pillows to dampen out the motors' "whine". You seriously can't hear any of the "tent noise" until you're within 2-3' of the tent itself. If I ran 6 air-cooled phantoms, I'd need be moving at least 600cfm just for the hoods. The tent needs around 200cfm itself, and more for make up if the hood fans are exhausting from inside the tent. So, with air-cooled phantoms, I'm pretty sure I'd need to move even more air/use more power than I am now.

 

[Ez Rider]

I tend to use this chart when sizing my passive system, and I've found it to be very accurate, sorry if I've posted it in this thread before:

 

[dank.frank]

Yeah, EZ - I remember looking over that when we talked about this in PM. I think I'll find myself in a situation where I'll get what is needed and then worry about how to make it more silent later. I've considered building a small enclosure/box to put the fan in + plus muffler on the exhaust.

I'll be in an insulated cab too - not a tent - so that should help as well. Still I just need fan noise to be pretty much zero. I was planning on a 4" fan but might stick with the 6" I currently have already.



dank.Frank

 

[dbkick]

Ballasts -

I have seen catalog pictures of three different Philips ballasts for this family of lamps, but have only personally seen one version. It is catalog #1ZTMH-210315-R-LF, has both Philips and Advance names on it, is enclosed in a black sheet-metal housing approximately 5"w x 7-3/8"h x 2-1/4"d (mounting ears not included) and is rated for 200-277 volts. The ballasts can optionally power 210w lamps by changing an internal DIP switch selection, have a dimming function via a 0-10vdc signal (this will normally go from 50-100%, but there are other versions - I bought three of them on eBay that have factory labels saying that they will only dim to 70%), and are very efficient (thus cool-running). The ballast overhead for the 315w lamp is only 17w, so they can be mounted in a pretty tight enclosure. These are low-frequency ballasts and will need an external transformer to step up the voltage if you only have 120v available.

Up until now, the best retail price that I have seen for this ballast is $162.50 from the following link - http://www.ballastdiscount.com/metal-halide/iztmh210315rlfm.html
*Edit* - And here is another:

*Edit* There is now a higher-voltage version of the Philips ballast for anyone running on 480v. This version will run on voltages from 347-480v, and is P/N HZTMH210315RLF. http://www.usa.ecat.lighting.philip...sion-medium-wattage-210-315w/913701261302_na/


There are also ballasts made for this lamp by GEL and Welthink. The GEL ballast is even more expensive than the Philips version, but is advertised as extending lamp life considerably as well as making slightly higher light levels. I've read that this ballast is actually made in Germany and relabeled by GEL. It's target market is to be competitive against LED-based street lighting as a retrofit, so in theory at least, it should be quality gear. Welthink seems to be at the upper end of Chinese gear - they do make some LED fixtures that have had decent reports. I've read that they tend to put out lower light levels than the Philips equipment, and possibly shorter lamp life. For whatever it's worth, I think that Philips/Advance would be very difficult to beat. They are industrial quality equipment, which is on a substantially different level than most gear aimed at growers or coming out of China.

There are a number of ballasts available from China that are advertised as being capable of driving these lamps, but I haven't heard of anyone that has actually used them. The people who have investigated them closely have reported that the manufacturers do not appear to really know what they are dealing with regarding this lamp. Then there is that quality issue......

*Edit (12/13/15) - There are now a couple of new entries into the ballast market.

The Hydrofarm Phantom 315 is available as a ballast, a hood, or a combination of the two. The ballast is a nice-looking plug & play package that runs on 120vac-240vac, but does not have a dimming function. The reflector is a vertical lamp design and has an air-cooling kit as an option. They appear to be competitively priced, particularly for the complete fixture. I've seen the ballast for around $190, the reflector for +/-$135, and the complete fixture for around $340 including a lamp. Ballast - https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PHBC3150 Reflector - https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PHR3150

Another contender in the ballast market is SunPlix, which also will run on 120v-240v. At this time, they are quite expensive (over double the competition) and a couple of early adopters of them have had infancy failures with them. They are claiming extended lamp life, out to 50,000 hours.

*Edit* - All of the ballasts for the 315 are low-frequency digital ballasts. Many of the lamps in the CMH family are retrofit lamps for magnetic ballasts (both 400 & 1000w HPS), but the 315 uses digital exclusively and is not compatible with high-frequency digital ballasts - high frequencies are supposed to shake the lamp apart. I've seen one report of a high-frequency digital from Europe being used with them, but the Philips spec is for a low-frequency source. Additionally, for accurate color expression, much tighter power regulation than a magnetic ballast is capable of is required.

You mention sunplix and expensive. I just bought 3 sunplix 315 ballasts at 155 dollars apiece. They dim and boost and are also affiliated with Welthink. They are due to release a LFSW for the allstart 860 , sunplix is by far the best choice in ballasts to run the 315.
I've run the allstart 860 on hortilux platinum and AN Baddass but I think the new release from sunplix will be the best choice for this lamp.

 

[rives]

You mention sunplix and expensive. I just bought 3 sunplix 315 ballasts at 155 dollars apiece. They dim and boost and are also affiliated with Welthink. They are due to release a LFSW for the allstart 860 , sunplix is by far the best choice in ballasts to run the 315.
I've run the allstart 860 on hortilux platinum and AN Baddass but I think the new release from sunplix will be the best choice for this lamp.

Glad to hear that their prices have come down, and hopefully their reliability has gone up. That post is almost a year and a half old.

My personal choice would still be the Philips ballast over any of the competition. They are industrial quality, are now pretty reasonably priced, and will both dim and run 210w lamps. I've never been a proponent of boosting, particularly with a lamp that runs at the internal pressures that the 315 does.

 

[dbkick]

Glad to hear that their prices have come down, and hopefully their reliability has gone up. That post is almost a year and a half old.

My personal choice would still be the Philips ballast over any of the competition. They are industrial quality, are now pretty reasonably priced, and will both dim and run 210w lamps. I've never been a proponent of boosting, particularly with a lamp that runs at the internal pressures that the 315 does.

After I quoted you no wonder I couldn't find the post again. oops.

 

[dbkick]

Link to those pressures you're talking about when you get a chance.

 

[rives]

Link to those pressures you're talking about when you get a chance.

I don't see it in my archived information, but all CMH lamps operate at much higher internal pressures than other lamp families. Most of the older CMH lamps run up to about 700 psi (and 1000 degrees C), and the CDM Elite family is supposed to be roughly 4 times that. These pressure levels are largely responsible for the increased efficiency of the lamp over the older designs, the reason for the double envelope on the open-rated lamps, and also the reason cited for the wattage limitation. The materials and design to contain the pressures of a much larger arc tube have not been developed yet.

 

[willowz]

Glad to hear that their prices have come down, and hopefully their reliability has gone up. That post is almost a year and a half old.

My personal choice would still be the Philips ballast over any of the competition. They are industrial quality, are now pretty reasonably priced, and will both dim and run 210w lamps. I've never been a proponent of boosting, particularly with a lamp that runs at the internal pressures that the 315 does.

This, 60k hours lifespan on Philips ballasts cant be beat. Also, they're more efficient and have the added benefit of interchangeable parts in case the internal transformer poops out for whatever reason.

 

[willowz]

Deleted.

 

[willowz]

New bulbs from Solis Tek.

They have a nice spectrum.

http://growershouse.com/315w-ceramic-metal-halide-3200k-lamp

 

[dbkick]

Not that new, Ushio also makes one.