passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

Which do you use? I wonder how consistent they are from the "loose" 1.5 cubic foot bags to the two sizes of bricks. I already have some perlite and Turface MVP.... Am going to inquire about pine bark fines today.

i am using the white pressed brick. my store has it for 14.95. if you don't have rice hulls substitute perlite. i would go 3-1-1 coco/perlite/turface by volume.

if you are getting the coco don't buy anything else yet. you don't need it.

a word of warning using coco, perlite, and turface together. wash the hell out of all three to remove fines. i rinse over a piece of aluminum window screen on a frame. until the run off is clear.

i have had this mix form a hydraulic plug before when not washed right. still not sure what causes it but it is probably the perlite and turface dust blocking the pores in the coco.

when this happened to me i dumped it out and rewashed it thoroughly and it moved water just fine.

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, IF. i'll be back, got some shit to do! at last!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

got some shit to do! at last!

Hooray for something to do.

I hope it's not juggling knives.

Thrilling, to be sure.

But not age appropriate, I think.

 

[huntingbb]

why not just get on with it and skip the media for the large part.

Face it, your talking about using a coco medium to approach a hydro build!

No flames brother, if its fun its worth doing, and if its effective its even better than that! ☺

Just thinking that eventually the 'ramp up' / 'escalation' is a constant or semi-constant drip - like a plant near a waterfall or something....

I merely submit the concept for consideration, I do not pretend to truly understand the PPK, plz forgive!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

why not just get on with it and skip the media for the large part.

Nothing dies in a PPK.

Plants grow at 110 degrees in a PPK.

Nothing dies in a PPK.

Nothing dies in a PPK.

Hooray for The PPK.

 

[Darth Fader]

How long does it take for air roots to drown? That's our top end limitation on pulse-through-drain timing.

If they're getting oxygen? I'm not sure if you can. You've seen Heath Robinson's grows, right? Ergo, the GratefulHead quotation earlier (paraphrase actually).

L8R Doodz~!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

If they're getting oxygen?

And there's the rub.

A better phrased question: "How long can you submerge an air root in a non-oxygen-infused-hydrology before it drowns?"

It seems obvious that in a normal state of affairs (outdoors) an air root does not drown when the rain comes.

So, when does it get hurt?

(Let's list the use of 'hydrology' under 'poetic license'.)

 

[delta9nxs]

Quotes by IF

“1. Pulse duration--and this is obvious--should be considered in the context of the volume of the pulse (more mathematically simple to consider it in terms of rate of flow).”

yes, the pulse should have enough mass and volume to cause some of the solution to travel all the way through the medium. This can be checked physically and measured by replacing the sub feed line with a line hooked to a container.

“2. 30-40% Porosity must be maintained within the media.”

I consider this to be an ideal % for a ppk.

“3. A model of an ideal pulse posits a standing puddle pumping over the whole of the surface area with a rate of flow that exceeds the rate of percolation such that the entirety of the surface of the media is submerged.”

ideal but impossible to achieve going into a wet medium. I think a multi-point application would help improve distribution.

“Presumptions:”

“1. Pulse is primarily a mechanical application.” agreed

“2. With sufficient air porosity, the media will never become overly saturated with H20, regardless of application characteristics.”

agree in general, but you can pulse too often and maintain a too wet condition. The plants will show signs but will continue to grow and no root tissue will die.

“Current Knowns:”

“1. D9s coco cuttings that demonstrated pH and residual salts have demonstrated that at whatever volume and timing he provided, a moderately coarse coco was maintained with a relatively uniform salt distribution with a non-flushed feed cycle.”

agree

“Any increase in volume frequency (taking into accounts variations of media and root density) will not effect the salt-re-distribution benefits of the pulse. It will only effect it's role as a solution mixer and mechanic for gas exchange.”

changes in pulse volume and frequency can affect salt accumulation in the medium but the changes are not radical or damaging. Best control for salt is using a low concentration solution from the beginning. This goes back to the principle of mass balance.

“There is, for any given container dimensions, a preferred pulse rate/volume per media to idealize a moisture distribution.”

very important, what works for one size of container with one type of media may not be the best for another size container and type of media.

“We are working towards a media that both wicks upwardly to feed the plant, and drains downwardly to give her air.”

yes, pulsing alternates the motions and changes the point of equilibrium between the gravitational flow potential and the capillarity. This represents a change in the wetting profile that is constantly moving in a well tuned ppk. Both motions introduce o2 and expel co2. It's like inhaling and exhaling. Or ebb and flow.

“So... If we have a sufficiently draining media, an over-pulse should not substantially effect the performance of the root zone. It may result in more overflow and puddles. But possibly, simpler timers come into play.”

correct in general again. Over pulsing, while not immediately damaging to the plant, will cause a slower growth rate and should be corrected. Also, if you have water coming out of anything other than the tail-piece you are just plain old pulsing way too much volume. My containers have holes in the bottom sidewall flush with the floor of the bucket. Raising the holes to trap excess is not necessary if operated properly.

“Final Presumption: An ideal surface humidity will have water slightly dripping out of squeezed coco from the top of the container. Pulse frequency should not fall below this.”

in 100% coco this should be your test for surface moisture. In other media or amended coco you may not be able to do this but the entire surface should feel moist to the touch anytime.

“Hi oo.” hi, oo.

“EDIT: How long does it take for air roots to drown? That's our top end limitation on pulse-through-drain timing.”

12 hours, 32 minutes and 9 seconds.

d9

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

ideal but impossible to achieve going into a wet medium. I think a multi-point application would help improve distribution.

Not with sufficient volume over a sufficiently short period of time. The obvious change is to increase the diameter of the pulsing infrastructure, and the size of the pump. If the top of the pot is hit at 1200gph for one seconds, we have a 1/3 gallon of water on the uppers surfaces. That's gotta be a couple of inches. And that will not perc in one second. So it is possible. Maybe not reasonable, but possible.

Best control for salt is using a low concentration solution from the beginning.

And never allowing it to accumulate. Strongly agree.

Raising the holes to trap excess is not necessary

Agree.

“2. With sufficient air porosity, the media will never become overly saturated with H20, regardless of application characteristics.”

agree in general, but you can pulse too often and maintain a too wet condition. The plants will show signs but will continue to grow and no root tissue will die.

Of course, everything effects everything. You could run a constant flow in some media (clay pellet) with some success.

But this is secondary to the point I was trying to make: Namely, that the duration and volume of the pulse, once over a baseline, will not have adverse effect provided it is less than:

12 hours, 32 minutes and 9 seconds.

The pulse timing frequency, however, is a different matter, optimized by the drainage qualities of the media and transpiration characteristics of the plant.

One thing to consider is the capacity of the media to store water within itself (absorb solution), in addition to the air gaps it's texture maintains. [Coco wets a lot (holds solution), pearlite doesn't.]

The pulse should be of a minimum frequency to maintain that wetness.

I choose to note that it is this qualities of the media--in the spectrum of hydroponic--that afford the PPK the soil-like stability and forgiveness not guaranteed by other hydro systems.

For example, in contrast, look to Med-Man's sweet NFT troughs.

I've been following this build since he started the thread, and I am convinced his skills are those of a 'master grower'. If you follow his build throughout, you will discover a number of mechanical break downs and clogs and nearly averted failures. Much respect to him for being able to keep his plants going. And his system is very productive.

PPKs may not be as fast as his Film Technique, but they take the guess work out of the system. They are mechanically redundant and buffered.

And they don't require that you be smart or talented.

Or, for that matter, very good looking.

 

[*mistress*]

i am using the white pressed brick. my store has it for 14.95. if you don't have rice hulls substitute perlite. i would go 3-1-1 coco/perlite/turface by volume.

if you are getting the coco don't buy anything else yet. you don't need it.

a word of warning using coco, perlite, and turface together. wash the hell out of all three to remove fines. i rinse over a piece of aluminum window screen on a frame. until the run off is clear.

i have had this mix form a hydraulic plug before when not washed right. still not sure what causes it but it is probably the perlite and turface dust blocking the pores in the coco.

when this happened to me i dumped it out and rewashed it thoroughly and it moved water just fine.

100persent pumice (small type).... does not crumble under compaction like perlyte... does not hold nutrients like coco or turfase... capillary action, good air porosity, re-usable... especially if using automated-type watering....works well for regular hand-water, too.... coco is ok, but 100persent perlyte or 100persent pumice work just as well, if not better, w/out the dust, inconsistency between packages, etc.... 2cents....

 

[zeke99]

Sungro's commercial peat based mixes are generally around 15% air filled porosity.

Their 'aggregate' high porosity mix only averages about 20%.

And that's with a decent amount of perlite.

Looks as if I'll be making a trip to buy Cocogro on Saturday.

 

[zeke99]

...The first photo is a complete “grow module”. It is shown with everything except the pulse feed line. Materials are 2 3.5 gal buckets, 1 lid, 2 tire valves, a 6” sink tailpiece, and a piece of 3/16” ID black latex tubing about 3” long.

The next photo shows a complete bottom or reservoir section. This one was just cleaned for a second run. It shows the 2.5” center hole to receive the tailpiece from the upper or grow container and the 7/16” access hole for checking nutrient solution.

Ok D9 I'm confused. The item called 6" tailpiece at the local Lowe's - part # 10-6WK or 046224004509 barcode - isn't nearly wide enough to fill a 2.5" hole in the bottom bucket. Is that the reason for the plumber's goop or am I missing something? Maybe it's the wrong piece. I see that in Dec. 2010 you mentioned a 1.5" hole in the top bucket for the tailpipe.

 

[delta9nxs]

Ok D9 I'm confused. The item called 6" tailpiece at the local Lowe's - part # 10-6WK or 046224004509 barcode - isn't nearly wide enough to fill a 2.5" hole in the bottom bucket. Is that the reason for the plumber's goop or am I missing something? Maybe it's the wrong piece. I see that in Dec. 2010 you mentioned a 1.5" hole in the top bucket for the tailpipe.

hi, zeke, the 1.5" hole is drilled in the bottom of the top bucket (growing container) only. it's a press fit for the tail piece so a bead of glue holds it in. i glue the inside lip first and let it get tacky, then turn it over and glue the outside with a bead. i have one bucket that has been through two complete grows and the tailpiece is still in place.

the 2.5" hole is in the lid of the bottom bucket. anywhere between 2" and 2.5" is good.

 

[delta9nxs]

why not just get on with it and skip the media for the large part.

Face it, your talking about using a coco medium to approach a hydro build!

No flames brother, if its fun its worth doing, and if its effective its even better than that! ☺

Just thinking that eventually the 'ramp up' / 'escalation' is a constant or semi-constant drip - like a plant near a waterfall or something....

I merely submit the concept for consideration, I do not pretend to truly understand the PPK, plz forgive!

hi! i know it must look like that sometimes. i do an awful lot of messin' around with shit.

but there is a method to the madness. the cyclestats make it very easy to experiment with duration and interval.

i have tried everything from 4 oz's every 15 minutes to a quart every 4 hours.

what i'm looking for is the ideal volume applied at the right time.

d9

 

[delta9nxs]

“Not with sufficient volume over a sufficiently short period of time. The obvious change is to increase the diameter of the pulsing infrastructure, and the size of the pump. If the top of the pot is hit at 1200gph for one seconds, we have a 1/3 gallon of water on the uppers surfaces. That's gotta be a couple of inches. And that will not perc in one second. So it is possible. Maybe not reasonable, but possible.”

ok,

 

[delta9nxs]

thought i would put up a few pics of the veg area. all of the ppk's are in the new mix of 3-1-1 cocogro/rice hulls,turface.

they are also on the 8-4-8-4 light schedule which is getting them to 30" in four weeks. each 8 hour photoperiod delivers 43 moles of light at 14" with a 1k hortilux.

the clone containers have the seedlings. the g13 is a little monster. the seedlings were germinated in turface and flora nova bloom. as soon as roots reach the sides i switch them to jack's at 600 ppm.

right now in veg i'm pulsing 16 oz's every two hours. it is keeping the tops wet and still allowing the sub-irrigation to resume between pulses.

 

[zeke99]

hi, zeke, the 1.5" hole is drilled in the bottom of the top bucket (growing container) only. it's a press fit for the tail piece so a bead of glue holds it in. i glue the inside lip first and let it get tacky, then turn it over and glue the outside with a bead. i have one bucket that has been through two complete grows and the tailpiece is still in place.

the 2.5" hole is in the lid of the bottom bucket. anywhere between 2" and 2.5" is good.

ok thanks dude.

 

[zeke99]

Check it out dude, what do you think?

http://www.polar-ray.com/Stray-Light-PlasmaGrow-G-2--120V_p_248.html

 

[delta9nxs]

Check it out dude, what do you think?

http://www.polar-ray.com/Stray-Light-PlasmaGrow-G-2--120V_p_248.html

nice light. great spectrum. extremely high price. i built my 1k cool tube lights using magnetic ballast kits, cool tubes, and 1k hortilux hps bulbs for just slightly over $300 apiece.

all 6 of my lights, including timers and wire, were less than $2000.

also, i don't see how it could be used vertically.

 

[zeke99]

interesting tech.

Average Life: 30,000 Hours with supposedly very low depreciation
2000 UMOL at 8"
2.5 amp @ 120v