passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

this is where i'll be working all day. i've got to finish attaching some pieces with screws, then tape all seams. a piece over all screw heads. some more caulk. build a door, and install the ac's. no problem. right. if i get this all done today it will be a miracle.

and i've got to drive 100 plus miles to pick up the co2 stuff.

yesterday i started at 4 am and quit at 11 pm. tired and sore.

but, i've got some really good pain reliever.

 

[disciple]

 

[disciple]

 

[disciple]

 

[stagehand099]

are you sure they add? it could be 47.5 amps @ 240V (total) or 95 amps @ 120V total. either way it would be 47.5 amps used out of an available 80 amps @ 240V or... 95 amps used out of an available 160 amps @ 120V.

he would have 32.5 amps left @ 240V and he'd have 65 amps left @ 120V. That could be (7) more lights!

Hi Disciple. Not sure I follow you on the above? An amp is an amp. Doesn't matter if its at 120v or 240v.Where is the 47.5 amps figure coming from? If all 6 lights and all 5 a/c units are powered from the 100 amp subpanel that D9 said he is using, and if they are all operating at the same time, then youy must consider that a 65 amp load. Since national electrical safety code states not to load a circuit more than 80 percent continuous, D9 would only have 15 amps of margin left. What do you mean by "you sure they add?" Yes, they do add, what else could they do? No offense meant, just wondering how you came to that 47.5A@ 240v/95A@ 120v thing.

stagehand

 

[stagehand099]

this is where i'll be working all day. i've got to finish attaching some pieces with screws, then tape all seams. a piece over all screw heads. some more caulk. build a door, and install the ac's. no problem. right. if i get this all done today it will be a miracle.

Beautiful room, D9. You like those long rectangles. I guess you are definately committed to your a/c choice.

I have a reflectix question. Do you get the staple-edge or the square edge and butt the joints together? How wide are the rolls you use? I'm fixin' to do my 10 x 10 and have never used it before. Thanks. Looking good!

stagehand

 

[disciple]

 

[delta9nxs]

still slinging aluminum tape but here is the house panel. it is a square-d. the breaker going to the shop is on the lower right and is 240v 60 amp.

so he has a 60amp at the house going to a 100 amp in the shop. why?

can't i just pop out the 60 and replace it with a 100?

 

[stagehand099]

Hi Stagehand099! What I meant was if he has a 100 AMP sub-panel then it's 100 AMP 120V/240V. 100 AMPS available at 240V can be broken off into (2) 100 AMP 120V circuits. This would likely look like a bunch of 120V, 15 AMP circuits and maybe (1) or (2) larger 120V breakers rather than just (2) 100 AMP 120V circuits.

We (he) could have "100 AMPS" worth of 120V circuits on each hot leg. There are (2) hot legs in a 240V panel and so we could hookup 2x100AMPS worth of circuits at 120V in such a panel. We multiply 100 AMPS by 0.80 to get a safe continuous load rating and we are left with 80 AMPS per 120V leg with (2) legs total. If you have the space for the breakers you can have 160 AMPS worth of 120V on a 100 AMP 120V/240V panel running continuously....

We could also have 100 AMPS worth of 240V circuits across the (2) hot legs combined together in theory on this panel. We multiply that by 0.80 again to get our continuous load rating which leaves us with a total of 80 AMPS 240V available for that panel. Each circuit would take up (2) spaces/slots on our panel as the breakers are double pole. The flip side to this is we can put twice as many devices on each circuit.

A 1000W light @ 240V is 1000W/240V=4.2 AMPS (plus ballast )
A 1000W light @ 120V is 1000w/120V=8.4 AMPS (plus ballast)

on a 15 AMP 120V circuit we can use 0.80 of that full time so 12 AMPS. We can run (1) 120V 1000W light per 15 AMP 120V circuit.

We can run (2) 240V 1000W lights per 15 AMP 240V circuit but each breaker takes up (2) spaces instead of one. On most normal north american sub-panels you can get twice as many 120V breakers as you can 240V breakers.

The total amount of AMPS we can draw is the same but we'll use twice as many 120V breakers as 240V breakers depending on what voltage our loads draw. Conversely, loads on 240V circuits will only be drawing half the current as 120V so while we can only install half as many 240V circuits, we can connect twice as many loads per circuit as we can with 120V.

In my post I used 47.5 AMPS and 95 AMPS for the total AMPS for his loads in either 240V (47.5 AMPS) or 120V (95 AMPS).

Here's where I got those numbers:

First I took the numbers you posted which are in both 120V and 240V and converted so they both have a common denominator of either 120V or 240V.



At 240V the lights/ballasts are 30A and the (5) A/C units are 5x7 AMPS @ 120V divided by (2) to get to 240V. So 17.5 AMPS 240V.

240V total = 30 AMPS 240V (lights) + 17.5 AMPS 240V (A/Cs) = 47.5 AMPS 240V (total).

At 120V the lights/ballasts would be 30 AMPS 240V multiplied by (2) to convert to 120V = 60 AMPS 120V.

120V total = 60 AMPS 120V (lights) + 35 AMPS 120V (A/C) = 95 AMPS 120V (total).



For comparison, if we look at all the loads as 240V or all as 120V we see the total AMPS D9 has to deal with is either:

100 AMPS 240V x 0.80 = 80 AMPS 240V or.....

100 AMPS 120V x (2) 120V legs in the sub-panel x 0.80 = 160 AMPS 120V (total).

His actual loads, from above, are:

47.5 AMPS @ 240V

or...

90 AMPS @ 120V

(if we convert all the loads to either 240V or 120V for the sake of comparison)

He has a total of 80 AMPS 240V he can use so we subtract 47.5 AMPS worth of loads and he is left with 32.5 AMPS 240V he can still use.

At 120V, he has a total of 160 AMPS 120V he can use so we subtract his 95 AMPS 120V worth of load and he has 65 AMPS 120V that he can still use and be safe

Am I sort of making sense on this?

Sort of. I see your points and you're correct. I'm not an electrician and its showing. Thanks for that detailed answer. I got it that there's 2 @ 120v hot legs on a 240v dircuit. Plus a return/neutral. Plus a ground, if it was wired after 1966, I think. It seems to me that for the lights, he would want to run 2 20 amp 240v lines to separate quad-boxes with 4, 6-15R receptacles in each quad. He could safely plug 3, 1K's in each. Instead of 6, 15 amp 120v circuits.

For the a/c units, he is kinda locked into 5, 15 amp 120v circuits. If he terminates each 120v circuit in a duplex receptacle or a quadbox (what I'd do), he will have 5 amps to use safely for accessories on each 15 ampcircuit. Which should do it, I would think.

So 7 breakers and lines out of the subpanel instead of 11.

I think the loads do need to kinda balance on each leg but I don't know enough to discuss that. We could use a visit from Rives right about now. Thanks for pointing out whats really going on.

stagehand

 

[disciple]

 

[stagehand099]

still slinging aluminum tape but here is the house panel. it is a square-d. the breaker going to the shop is on the lower right and is 240v 60 amp.

so he has a 60amp at the house going to a 100 amp in the shop. why?

can't i just pop out the 60 and replace it with a 100?

You need to know the wire guage of the line to the shop. If its large enough to support 100 amps, then maybe yes. I think it needs to be like 1/0, (looked it up, needs to be 2 gauge). If your main breaker box is 200 amp and you will never draw more than 100 amps at the house, and the wire to the shop is 2 gauge or larger, then I believe you can. But I'm not an electrician.

stagehand

Edit: Disciple beat me to it with better info.

 

[delta9nxs]

you sure can! Just be sure to check the rating of the wire he's got running between the main and sub-panel (check the ground too to make sure appropriately sized). They all have to be able to handle 100-ish AMPS

re his wiring/mating of a 60 AMP at the main panel to a 100 AMP at the sub-panel: "it's just a shop".... or.... "run what you brung" or... who knows.

That setup isn't the cleanest....

In this photo the wires going into the 100 AMP breaker at top left are the one's that come from the main house panel? So that breaker is acting like the main for the whole sub-panel right?

I'm not a huge fan of that design. Can you take those (2) hots out of that 100 AMP breaker (after killing the 60 AMP breaker on your main house panel ) and run them into lugs at the top of the (2) buses? It looks like in the photo there are (2) screw down terminals for that purpose.

The only reason he ran the hots to a breaker would be so he has a local disconnect for the sub-panel (or he just thought that was the way to do it) - who knows.

yes, those are the wires coming from the house. how do i gauge them so i know what amperage they will handle?

i can try to do that but he may not have left me enough wire. safe extensions?

should i put in a larger breaker than a 100 in the house panel?

 

[disciple]

 

[high life 45]

In this photo the wires going into the 100 AMP breaker at top left are the one's that come from the main house panel? So that breaker is acting like the main for the whole sub-panel right?

I'm not a huge fan of that design. Can you take those (2) hots out of that 100 AMP breaker (after killing the 60 AMP breaker on your main house panel ) and run them into lugs at the top of the (2) buses? It looks like in the photo there are (2) screw down terminals for that purpose.

The only reason he ran the hots to a breaker would be so he has a local disconnect for the sub-panel (or he just thought that was the way to do it) - who knows.

If you dont have enough slack for feed to land in the lug terminals.

You can unhook everything,
Unscrew your breaker,
turn it "upside down"
Screw er back in.

This will bring the lugs to the bottom where the feed is.

Then when you bring the wires back into the panel get some KO clamps. Brings you closer to code. And some ko seals to cover the holes that arent being used.

Take your time and bend the wire in 90*s to the left or right to make it look clean.


I want to say more but
I am shinola-mugged right now

A couple john dailys served me well.

Disciple I noticed that the lumateks worked but 1 time they relay arced.

Maybe I should go back and quadruple check my wiring.

I try not to run a bulb more than two flowering cycles.
I figure they pay for themselves by that point.

I need to get a light meter. Which one do you guys use.

Too drunk to type anything clear and coherent so I will come back later and try to clear things up if they dont make sense.

Love all my friends here on the boards.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I'm such an incestual bastard. I can't rep anyone in this thread anymore (and haven't been able to for weeks). I have to go find new people to rep before I can say 'attaboy' to anyone here.

Fucking too lazy to do it, too.

Oh well.

 

[delta9nxs]

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=32241&pictureid=896122&thumb=0]View Image[/url]

yes, it is. bush needs haircut!rfdeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

above sentence finished by Rotten Kitty

 

[delta9nxs]

Beautiful room, D9. You like those long rectangles. I guess you are definately committed to your a/c choice.

I have a reflectix question. Do you get the staple-edge or the square edge and butt the joints together? How wide are the rolls you use? I'm fixin' to do my 10 x 10 and have never used it before. Thanks. Looking good!

stagehand

i use the 4' x 25' rolls. i don't butt them, i overlap slightly then tape.

i use 1" coarse thread drywall screws through #8 flat washers to attach to the framing.

then a piece of aluminum tape over the heads.

the reflectix is an amazing material. by priority with one application i get an air seal, insulation, light reflectivity, IR shield, and insect proofing.

i'm going to use most of ten rolls here, 5 lb's of screws, 500-600 washers and 6 rolls of tape.

it's going to cost about 2 zips.

 

[delta9nxs]

If you dont have enough slack for feed to land in the lug terminals.

You can unhook everything,
Unscrew your breaker,
turn it "upside down"
Screw er back in.

This will bring the lugs to the bottom where the feed is.

Then when you bring the wires back into the panel get some KO clamps. Brings you closer to code. And some ko seals to cover the holes that arent being used.

Take your time and bend the wire in 90*s to the left or right to make it look clean.


I want to say more but
I am shinola-mugged right now

A couple john dailys served me well.

Disciple I noticed that the lumateks worked but 1 time they relay arced.

Maybe I should go back and quadruple check my wiring.

I try not to run a bulb more than two flowering cycles.
I figure they pay for themselves by that point.

I need to get a light meter. Which one do you guys use.

Too drunk to type anything clear and coherent so I will come back later and try to clear things up if they dont make sense.

Love all my friends here on the boards.

Brilliant! here i was stumped trying to figure out how to extend the wire and all i have to do is move the box.

but i don't even have to turn it up side down as the wires are all exposed between the studs. so all i have to do is move the box down about six inches.
duh!

you guys are all the best! what a tremendous resource we have here!

http://www.specmeters.com/brands/lightscout/

HL, these people have a good basic quantum meter for 200. it's not research grade but it's certainly a good working tool for us. i want a red/far red meter too. i have a set of the lightscouts which are about to get used in this grow.

 

[delta9nxs]

wire between the panels is 6 awg, two black and one bare.

 

[stagehand099]

wire between the panels is 6 awg, two black and one bare.

#2 awg SOJ (SOJ for runs outside) is needed for 100 amp service to a subpanel. 6 is only big enough for 60 amps. If buried, should be in PVC conduit.

Hey Delta, on the reflectix you're using : square cut or staple tab? width?