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passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
Hello Delta9nxs & others
I wanted to pop in and thank you Delta9nxs.
This is a powerfully simple system and such a great thread.
--
--
I have spent the last couple weeks reading and digesting this
info fill book of a thread and just cant put it down.
The links and what others have shared here is inspiring to say the least and
I wish y'all the best in your grows.
I am hoping by my next winters grow I might have something to share here
as for now I am more than happy learning from what is already here and seems
to be coming up.
Wow man- your new setup sound tight. Ya just going ta kill it with that kind of room.
Perhaps by the time it getz going I will have finish my page by page read off this thread.
On page 138 and trying hard to keep the brain cells working. lol
I have read and want to commend
ImaginaryFriend's INTERPRETATION of Delta9nxs' PASSIVE PLANT KILLERS
Zeke99's PPK index
Oldone's
runs and threads and all are exceptional reads.
Not to leave anyone out- there are dozens of great contributors and very
inspiring people here-
Thank you all..
With that I will let y'all get back to the magic and wish y'all the best for grows.
Keep the karma alive- Noob's like myself need threads like this,more than ever...
PeAcE...
I wanted to pop in and thank you Delta9nxs.
This is a powerfully simple system and such a great thread.
----I have spent the last couple weeks reading and digesting this
info fill book of a thread and just cant put it down.
The links and what others have shared here is inspiring to say the least and
I wish y'all the best in your grows.
I am hoping by my next winters grow I might have something to share here
as for now I am more than happy learning from what is already here and seems
to be coming up.
Wow man- your new setup sound tight. Ya just going ta kill it with that kind of room.
Perhaps by the time it getz going I will have finish my page by page read off this thread.
On page 138 and trying hard to keep the brain cells working. lol
I have read and want to commend
ImaginaryFriend's INTERPRETATION of Delta9nxs' PASSIVE PLANT KILLERS
Zeke99's PPK index
Oldone's
runs and threads and all are exceptional reads.
Not to leave anyone out- there are dozens of great contributors and very
inspiring people here-
Thank you all..
With that I will let y'all get back to the magic and wish y'all the best for grows.
Keep the karma alive- Noob's like myself need threads like this,more than ever...
PeAcE...
Check out the last page of ad's thread--Alien, you need to post a link--to see some creative alternative material builds.
You can run (2) 24 site rooms with relays and recirculate air like I am doing. Its easier than you think.
Hello Delta9nxs & others
I wanted to pop in and thank you Delta9nxs.
This is a powerfully simple system and such a great thread.
I have spent the last couple weeks reading and digesting this
info fill book of a thread and just cant put it down.
The links and what others have shared here is inspiring to say the least and
I wish y'all the best in your grows.
I am hoping by my next winters grow I might have something to share here
as for now I am more than happy learning from what is already here and seems
to be coming up.
Wow man- your new setup sound tight. Ya just going ta kill it with that kind of room.
Perhaps by the time it getz going I will have finish my page by page read off this thread.
On page 138 and trying hard to keep the brain cells working. lol
I have read and want to commend
ImaginaryFriend's INTERPRETATION of Delta9nxs' PASSIVE PLANT KILLERS
Zeke99's PPK index
Oldone's
runs and threads and all are exceptional reads.
Not to leave anyone out- there are dozens of great contributors and very
inspiring people here-
Thank you all..
With that I will let y'all get back to the magic and wish y'all the best for grows.
Keep the karma alive- Noob's like myself need threads like this,more than ever...
PeAcE...
hey, alien dawg! welcome! please don't feel compelled to read this whole thing. you can slap one together in an afternoon and be growing in it within a few days if you like.
holler if you need anything.
d9
disciple, thank you for the very instructional post, i'm learning.
i've been trying to post pics since last night and for some reason i am having trouble uploading. i took a pic of the box and it is a cutler-hammer.
i suspect that it is not a 200 amp panel as the line from the house is going to a 100 amp double breaker first.
i still have all of it to dedicate to this room as the only other thing i absolutely need juice for is the overhead garage door.
got to go and get some medical tests done today. i'll work on the pics when i get back.
thank you.
editing to say that the most helpful part of your post for me was the part about the difference between 120 and 240 breakers and how they work on the panel. i now have a clear understanding of that, thank you!
also want to add that i will be running 6 old style magnetic ballasts. they are all multi-tap so i have the option of using 120 or 240. wouldn't it be easier for me to run 240 as the amperage should drop in half? wouldn't that leave me more room on the bar?
i will have the six ballast, five ac's at 120v, and probably six fans running at any given time during lights on. i will need intermittent supply to a couple of overhead flo's that i will use occasionally. the co2 ignition. and one big, honkin' pump, maybe a de-huey or a huey.
i've got 6 relays to switch the lights at halfway through the period, maybe 12-13 digital 120 timers that have already been running the ballast for a long time and are very reliable. one t-104 240 timer.
i have time to order more stuff if i need to but i have to do it soon as i have seedlings kicking into fast growth mode right now. i figure transplant in two weeks or less.
i've been trying to post pics since last night and for some reason i am having trouble uploading. i took a pic of the box and it is a cutler-hammer.
i suspect that it is not a 200 amp panel as the line from the house is going to a 100 amp double breaker first.
i still have all of it to dedicate to this room as the only other thing i absolutely need juice for is the overhead garage door.
got to go and get some medical tests done today. i'll work on the pics when i get back.
thank you.
editing to say that the most helpful part of your post for me was the part about the difference between 120 and 240 breakers and how they work on the panel. i now have a clear understanding of that, thank you!
also want to add that i will be running 6 old style magnetic ballasts. they are all multi-tap so i have the option of using 120 or 240. wouldn't it be easier for me to run 240 as the amperage should drop in half? wouldn't that leave me more room on the bar?
i will have the six ballast, five ac's at 120v, and probably six fans running at any given time during lights on. i will need intermittent supply to a couple of overhead flo's that i will use occasionally. the co2 ignition. and one big, honkin' pump, maybe a de-huey or a huey.
i've got 6 relays to switch the lights at halfway through the period, maybe 12-13 digital 120 timers that have already been running the ballast for a long time and are very reliable. one t-104 240 timer.
i have time to order more stuff if i need to but i have to do it soon as i have seedlings kicking into fast growth mode right now. i figure transplant in two weeks or less.
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Your ac's should give you a good amount of dehuey, you might not need one.
I am really high so please excuse me if I am outta line...
The majority of the "double" breakers can have a piece of plastic between them called a "common trip".
This makes sure all of the 240 power on that circuit gets flipped if one of the legs trips.
Your double breaker line to your shop possibly at one point had a common trip on it.
Someone may have decided that they only needed 120 in the shop and removed it.
I will get a couple pics up to give you a visual.
(Edit you will need to put the common trip on the breaker in your main panel for your 240v to be safe in the shop.. other wise one leg of power can trip and the other will stay on and might fry something)
Im concered with the amount of amperage you need to run 6 1ks (40 amp breaker) and 5 120v 8kbtu acs. (5 15 amp breaker)
Pretty sure my 240v 28kbtu ac only requires 20amps.
Plus another 20amps to run fans pumps co2 solenoid timers etc.
Maybe you can put a list together so we can add up how many amps you will need.
Here is something you may end up buying to get more amperage.
I had to order this thru the electrical supply house.
Home Depot will probably not have this but they do exist.
I spent along time looking for a 200 amp breaker in this style and they do not exist. I got tricked a couple times and bought a used one online and now they are not answering my emails.
150 2 pole breaker that will fit most panels.
Here it is with the "common trip" removed.
So when we are out camping, take some good old clean acid and have the same hallucination, reading eachothers minds etc.
It looks like this
A common trip... Same breaker just with that piece of plastic pushed back into turning; 2) 100 amp 120v single pole into 1) 100 amp 240v double pole
Rest assured there is not 2000cfm moving through the breaker in this configuration.
I had to order this thru the electrical supply house.
Home Depot will probably not have this but they do exist.
I spent along time looking for a 200 amp breaker in this style and they do not exist. I got tricked a couple times and bought a used one online and now they are not answering my emails.
150 2 pole breaker that will fit most panels.
Here it is with the "common trip" removed.
So when we are out camping, take some good old clean acid and have the same hallucination, reading eachothers minds etc.
It looks like this
A common trip... Same breaker just with that piece of plastic pushed back into turning; 2) 100 amp 120v single pole into 1) 100 amp 240v double pole
Rest assured there is not 2000cfm moving through the breaker in this configuration.
stagehand099
Member
6 @ 1K's (5A each @ 240v) = 30A
5 A/C @ 7A each (120v) = 35A
You would be at 65 amps just with this stuff and only have 15 amps left for anything else to stay within the safety margin of 80 amps continuous on a 100A breaker.
You might consider rethinking the a/c's, because all those little units running off of 120v eat up a lot of amperage. The same BTU's running in 1 or 2 bigger 240v a/c units would pull maybe 10 or 15 amps less and leave you more juice for acessory equipment.
Edit: Something like 2 of these. 18000 btu's each @ 8.2 amps each, so more cooling at less than half the amps pulled. Personally, I would give the cooling system some 20-25 percent overkill, like 7K btu's per lamp to handle those freak weeks here in the mid-south when we have 6-8 days in a row over 95 degrees. So 2 @ 21000 btu units. Crops have been lost (by me) by using "just enough" a/c..........
http://www.homedepot.com/Appliances...=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#specifications
Looking forward to seeing you knock it out of the park in your new digs, Delta. As we stagehands tell the actors before they go onstage, "Break a leg!".
stagehand
5 A/C @ 7A each (120v) = 35A
You would be at 65 amps just with this stuff and only have 15 amps left for anything else to stay within the safety margin of 80 amps continuous on a 100A breaker.
You might consider rethinking the a/c's, because all those little units running off of 120v eat up a lot of amperage. The same BTU's running in 1 or 2 bigger 240v a/c units would pull maybe 10 or 15 amps less and leave you more juice for acessory equipment.
Edit: Something like 2 of these. 18000 btu's each @ 8.2 amps each, so more cooling at less than half the amps pulled. Personally, I would give the cooling system some 20-25 percent overkill, like 7K btu's per lamp to handle those freak weeks here in the mid-south when we have 6-8 days in a row over 95 degrees. So 2 @ 21000 btu units. Crops have been lost (by me) by using "just enough" a/c..........
http://www.homedepot.com/Appliances...=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#specifications
Looking forward to seeing you knock it out of the park in your new digs, Delta. As we stagehands tell the actors before they go onstage, "Break a leg!".
stagehand
Maybe I've missed it, but are you going to try and run this room without any sort of grow room controller? To keep in the spirit of keeping things DIY and cheap as possible; I think you'd really benefit from having a PLC to control everything.
Having your ACs staggered at different temperatures is a good low-tech way of managing your load, but from what I learned from HVAC gurus is that ACs really should be tailored to a specific volume space. It isn't good if the room and heat is insufficient for their capacity because of more frequent shutoffs. The condensers really do not need a break. The units just keep doing the same cycle over and over again and are designed to do such.
With a PLC you can write your own logic to practically control why, when, and how your devices are operated. Logic like below.
If temp greater than 75, run all ACs.. and then they could be turned on with various delays from one another to manage the load factor on start-up.
If temps between 70-75, run half of the ACs.
The PLC can flip lights with mag or digital ballasts, turn humidifiers or dehumidifiers on and off to maintain a given RH dependent upon temperature to manage VPD, turn your exhaust down when it isn't needed so you can let your RH rise, turn exhaust on full blast on a schedule to get rid of disease prone air, control all your pumps, CO2 burners, etc, etc...
With a desire to optimize quality, quantity, risk management, and labor...ya need control over your devices via sensors and logic so you can maintain the environmental conditions that WILL make or break you come harvest. Or ya gotta be bouncing off the walls in the rooms with eight arms constantly tweaking dials.
Having your ACs staggered at different temperatures is a good low-tech way of managing your load, but from what I learned from HVAC gurus is that ACs really should be tailored to a specific volume space. It isn't good if the room and heat is insufficient for their capacity because of more frequent shutoffs. The condensers really do not need a break. The units just keep doing the same cycle over and over again and are designed to do such.
With a PLC you can write your own logic to practically control why, when, and how your devices are operated. Logic like below.
If temp greater than 75, run all ACs.. and then they could be turned on with various delays from one another to manage the load factor on start-up.
If temps between 70-75, run half of the ACs.
The PLC can flip lights with mag or digital ballasts, turn humidifiers or dehumidifiers on and off to maintain a given RH dependent upon temperature to manage VPD, turn your exhaust down when it isn't needed so you can let your RH rise, turn exhaust on full blast on a schedule to get rid of disease prone air, control all your pumps, CO2 burners, etc, etc...
With a desire to optimize quality, quantity, risk management, and labor...ya need control over your devices via sensors and logic so you can maintain the environmental conditions that WILL make or break you come harvest. Or ya gotta be bouncing off the walls in the rooms with eight arms constantly tweaking dials.
Sup I-F
The more I look at it the more I like the Coffee can PPK.lol
here is my link-
Alien*D{}G--HPS(400w +)Soil,17 Lady-Scrog,Training,Super Silver Haze,SourD*Test Grow*
Please ignore the ladys as I have been using them for learning
and none look great.
" hey, alien dawg! welcome! please don't feel compelled to read this whole thing. you can slap one together in an afternoon and be growing in it within a few days if you like.
holler if you need anything. "
I could have built one after reading for a hour.
I didnt plan on reading every page. lol
Just a great read and have enjoyed it very much.
I find your link leads to so much more than just the PPK.
Great way for a newbie to gain a foot hold on growing.
There are 2 specific areas I have been looking for and yet to find in your thread.
1) Has anyone touched on using 3 or 5 gal Smart Potz on a PPK ? ( Seems a good match )
2) Mycorrhizae in coco using the PPK as it seems the PPK in conjunction with
pulse fed top wetting coco solves the saltz build up issue I have read so much about.
Just a couple things i chew on while reading...lol
Been talked about. 'Sticking point' was wick installation, and general laziness.
The first PPKs I built had 5 gallon buckets drilled to shit, with a fabric liner. They performed well, very smart potish. Drilling the holes really sucked. An adult would stick to it to see the long term investment from an one time effort. But I say, "Fuck investing. Fuck the future." I'm a good citizen like that.
The general postion held in the forums is that you either feed directly absorbed salts, or you feed a microherd that feeds the plants.
I do not see the two as mutually exclusive. One of the problems that can occur before getting an organic run dialed is starving plants, and not being able to correct for it in a timely fashion. (Water only amended... I know there are other ways.)
I have plenty of thoughts on running a PPK with low EC and organic supplementation. P is a big microherd killer, but P's ppms in jacks around 1.2EC is not considered toxic to the microherd (i.e. sub 60ppm).
So it should be very possible to run a PPK with a baseline feed of Jacks and top feeding with ACTs, EWCTs, etc. While I'm not sure what would happen precisely, I would be very surprised to see anything bad. Probably a much healthier root zone, at the very least, with certain elements breaking down dead matter, and out competing other pestilence.
So I guess I've thought about Mycrrohizae a little. But only a little. And rather indirectly. I would, of course, take a scatter-gun approach and just start occasional top feeds after a pulse into the system... randomly... haphazardly... lazily. Except I'd have to set up the brewer, and all that shit. Which interferes with my boredom.
You must know what is sacred.
D
disciple
they must have restricted file size for pics. i had to re-size these to 1mb to post them.
anyway this is what i got in the shop.
the big gray wire coming up from the left is the wire from the house. it's connected to a 100 amp double breaker.
just below that breaker on the left is a 20amp double breaker. it is wired solely to the receptacle in the third photo.
below that are two 15 amp breakers.
on the top right are two more 15amp breakers.
the big black wire coming up from the bottom right is going to a 50 amp breaker and is wired solely to the receptacle in the middle photo.
anyway this is what i got in the shop.
the big gray wire coming up from the left is the wire from the house. it's connected to a 100 amp double breaker.
just below that breaker on the left is a 20amp double breaker. it is wired solely to the receptacle in the third photo.
below that are two 15 amp breakers.
on the top right are two more 15amp breakers.
the big black wire coming up from the bottom right is going to a 50 amp breaker and is wired solely to the receptacle in the middle photo.
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i had 64 feminized beans so i built this 2x4 frame on the floor big enough to hold them all. they were wet on the 17th. at 48 hours i had 57 with nice tails and few more open but barely. three did not germinate at all in this time frame so they and the four weak looking ones got tossed.
the containers are 1 quart and they have a single 3/8" slot burned into them with a soldering iron.
the wicks are 1/2" x 8" thermolam plus. they are approx 2 1/2" into the container.
they spent the first two weeks on 2-300 ppm flora nova bloom with weak lighting (2 4' flo's with daylight bulbs) to slow them down.
they were resting on small pieces of 2x4 as you can see in the photo. 1.5" high
they were culled down to 35 day before yesterday, feed brought up to 450 ppm, two more lights added and pushed together to fit under them.
they were raised to 5" on top of the 2x4's.
the wicks stay wet all the time. i feed every other day right now and remove old solution with a wet vac just before each watering.
as i approach transplant i'll select the final 24.
for reference the red tags are "the dope"
green are chemdawg g13,
blue are bubba og,
violet are sour 13
yellow are "good dog"
and pink are c-99
they got bigger fast so i think i have to be totally ready to go in about two weeks.
i can't thank you guys enough for the help with the electrical. i'm reading now and i'm sure i'll have more questions later
thank you!
the containers are 1 quart and they have a single 3/8" slot burned into them with a soldering iron.
the wicks are 1/2" x 8" thermolam plus. they are approx 2 1/2" into the container.
they spent the first two weeks on 2-300 ppm flora nova bloom with weak lighting (2 4' flo's with daylight bulbs) to slow them down.
they were resting on small pieces of 2x4 as you can see in the photo. 1.5" high
they were culled down to 35 day before yesterday, feed brought up to 450 ppm, two more lights added and pushed together to fit under them.
they were raised to 5" on top of the 2x4's.
the wicks stay wet all the time. i feed every other day right now and remove old solution with a wet vac just before each watering.
as i approach transplant i'll select the final 24.
for reference the red tags are "the dope"
green are chemdawg g13,
blue are bubba og,
violet are sour 13
yellow are "good dog"
and pink are c-99
they got bigger fast so i think i have to be totally ready to go in about two weeks.
i can't thank you guys enough for the help with the electrical. i'm reading now and i'm sure i'll have more questions later
thank you!
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Well said IM. TY.. I'll let y'all get back to your fun.
Catch ya on the flip side of summer.. Peace...
wow this could be what im looking for to change from RDWC for the summer months, il be back in 3 days when finished readingthnks to all who contributed
welcome aboard! no chillers here! you can run solution at room temp, whatever that is.
we don't do scheduled major change outs either. in the grow i'm about to do i intend to run with just input for the entire grow, steering concentration up or down as needed.
no noise. the loudest thing in your room will be the ac and fans.
see you later!
hey! i'm pretty much committed on the ac's. i've already framed the openings and will be installing them hopefully later today. but no matter what the shop panel limitations are i will have power to everything one way or another. i was looking at the house panel last night and i have four outdoor receptacles on the house. they are 120v and have 20 amp breakers. if i have to i'll wire straight to them and bury lines. two of them are on the rear deck facing the shop about 80ft away.
thanks!
hey, i was actually thinking of trying it without a room controller. but i'm interested in the tech. that is certainly the way to go for larger shows.
the ac's have programmable timers, closed vent capability, and , of course, thermostats.
i've got this fuzzy idea in the back of my little brain that i can stagger start and stop points and get precision temp control.
i may be wrong but all i'll be cooling is 6 lights at a time.
the heat from the co2 generator will be mostly pumped out of the room.
the room itself is super insulated way beyond reason right now. i finished hanging the reflectix last night. i'll be taping and sealing all day today and when i'm done it will be almost airtight.
as i built this room, piece by piece adding insulation, i could feel it cool down way below ambient. the slab is sucking heat big time.
the ballasts will be outside the room.
but i want to learn how to use room controllers as i will probably be using one someday. the computer has become such a major player in all our lives.
