passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

Thanks, high life 45! You'll be glad you made the switch to Jack's Hydroponic. I've been using Jack's for two years now and can tell you that it's really simplified my feeding regimen. Now when I have a problem, I know it's not my nutes. BTW I forgot to mention that my bonzai moms are now wick fed. I'm loving this sub-irrigation!

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=188&pictureid=858990&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

hey, pete! finally gotcha! heh! heh!

lookin' good, bro!

how are you controlling algae?

 

[delta9nxs]

delta9, what's your regimen for seeds in the plastic cloners.

not the turface preparation, but how long do you cover ?

i start them on a plate with plastic wrap to keep them from drying out. i check them at about 48 hrs. if they are gonna pop they have usually have done it by then.

into the cloners with the top on until they throw the seed shell. i shoot a little water directly onto the shells to keep them wet. they come off easier.

when they throw the shell that's it. top off.

 

[Snook]

i start them on a plate with plastic wrap to keep them from drying out. i check them at about 48 hrs. if they are gonna pop they have usually have done it by then.

into the cloners with the top on until they throw the seed shell. i shoot a little water directly onto the shells to keep them wet. they come off easier.

when they throw the shell that's it. top off.

I just saw, at a friends, a tevo of one episode of WEED, where they make hash with just dry ice. Then in collander, sift back in bucket, then everything into a blue bag (???) for final, 'sifting'.
Collect and press or whatever... what is the blue bag? Some kinda 1 millon fulton siftin screen??? HAHA! size/source. any first hand experience with dry ice hash?

 

[petemoss]

petemoss,

I've always loved the look of your garden... I'm super happy to hear that sub-irrigation worked.

Just a warning: that was how I started, with just a wick here or there. And then I just followed along...

Just be glad there is less drilling than there was a year or so ago.

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Hey IF, there's little danger I'll ever run a full PPK with pulsed top feed. too many feed tubes for my little SOG (28 plantlets in 5 sq ft).
But you never know...actually I already have a drip feed manifold like Pico's and that HD timer...bet I could hook everything up for a pulsed feed in less than an hour... but then when I want to move plants around...oh never mind!

hey, pete! finally gotcha! heh! heh!

lookin' good, bro!

how are you controlling algae?

You got me alright, d9! All that talk about hydraulic redistribution and perched water tables has lured me to the Darkside! Hope I can go back before it's too late. Right now I'm quite content that these wicks will plug a big drain on my yields. I'm not concerned about algae because algae won't hurt my yield. They won't eat too much and there's plenty of food for everyone! When it comes to growing, I'm like the honey badger - nothing stops me. Honey badger don't give a shit about algae!
hey this was my post #666 the number of the beast...oh dear, now I'm in trouble!

 

[high life 45]

You guys were making me envious with your trees grown in PPKs! So I decided to convert my perpetual cab SOG from E&F to wick sub-irrigation. Experimented with several types of wicks (cotton sheet strips, nylon/propylene, tiki wicks) until I found a braided nylon/polyester rope that worked. I used wire closet shelves supported with PVC tubes to build a shelf in my flood tray. Flood height is set by the overflow tube and the water remains in the tray after the pump turns off.

Initial air gap of 2" left my small 4 inch pots too wet. I'm trying a 3" gap now with plain top water flush once a week. The first thing I noticed was that the plants seemed to take off in a burst of growth. This I attribute to the removal of standing water. After three years, I was still drowning roots like a newbie! Amazing how quickly this weed grows without moisture stress! Thanks d9 for showing me a better way!

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=188&pictureid=858739View Image https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=188&pictureid=858742View Image https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=188&pictureid=858741View Image

Hey glad you posted this Petemoss.

I have a friend who has limited ceiling height and wants to do something similar .
They have 4'x16'x4' attic space and asked for some advice.
I was thinking about doing four seperate 12 or 9 plant sogs in a 4x4x4' area.
I have told them about the ppk tree room that I am setting up. I was thinking we could make 3.5'x'3.5'x8" ppks with a small res underneath each bed. Each with a 1000w or 600w overhead. Further more recirculating the air between them by pulling the air from one end and pushing it into the other end and using these to let air flow between the areas http://www.adorama.com/DKL82.html
Any of you ppk vets who have any insight or advice on setting this up let me know.

 

[zeke99]

i start them on a plate with plastic wrap to keep them from drying out. i check them at about 48 hrs. if they are gonna pop they have usually have done it by then.

into the cloners with the top on until they throw the seed shell. i shoot a little water directly onto the shells to keep them wet. they come off easier.

when they throw the shell that's it. top off.

thanks dude, i just picked up a pack from kck.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

but then when I want to move plants around...oh never mind!

Just run long lines.... you know it wont take long to adjust, and you can leave the ones not in use in your drain tray.

Once you wrote it, you know are going to do it.

 

[petemoss]

Just run long lines.... you know it wont take long to adjust, and you can leave the ones not in use in your drain tray.

Once you wrote it, you know are going to do it.

LOL IF, you're probably right. Eventually I'll try a pulsed top feed to take full advantage of the PPK method. But first I need to find the right air gap. Tried 2" and 3" and now just went to 4" but the pots still are moist on top. I'm using small 4-inch pots and they may need a bigger gap before top feeding is needed. I'm just wondering how large an air gap is needed before the capillary rise slows down.

 

[disciple]

 

[catman]

Still can't find this one article that described less roots producing more yield and theories of why. Still stumbled upon some other old stuff worth sharing.


I did find something I wished to have discussed here earlier related perhaps to the Jack formulate which I honestly know jack-about.

1,000 words...

Source: http://roots.psu.edu/en/book/export/html/92

I use Fox Farm's line which is heavy in K. I wonder if this is why I had roots growing out of my tailpiece which makes me wonder something else.

During the seedling stage or beginning of a clone, it's easy to see that for a period of time there is no upwards growth while the roots are growing below. I was very surprised to see roots still growing over a week after my vertical growth had damn near halted in a hand watered PPK.

During water stress, the formation of suberin lamellae in the endo‐ and exodermis could result in localized high resistances for water and ion flow in the root apoplast. The exodermis could, thus, contribute to the regulation of water uptake into roots as suggested by experiments in which roots were grown in soil with water deficits or nutrient solution with high salinity (Stasovski and Peterson, 1991; Cruz et al., 1992; Azaizeh and Steudle, 1991; Azaizeh et al., 1992; Peyrano et al., 1997; Taleisnik et al., 1999).
However, recent measurements on young onion roots grown in vermiculite have shown that root Lpr increased as the exodermis developed at constant cell Lp (Barrowclough et al., 2000). These results indicate that, different from maize, the hydraulic resistance may be more evenly distributed across the root cylinder in onion even during stages where the exodermis is already developed. To date, there are, for technical reasons, no quantitative values of the permeability of the exo‐ and endodermis of intact roots to water. These detailed measurements are necessary to work out the functions of the two structures during water deficit and other conditions of stress. Although limited in application, the approach of Zimmermann and Steudle already mentioned may be used in which a variation of growing conditions produced roots with or without an exodermis (Zimmermann and Steudle, 1998). Another approach would imply measurements of changes in cell Lp and of the propagation of changes in water potential (osmotic and hydrostatic pressure) across the root cylinder (cell pressure probe). These experiments are not easy to perform, but the techniques for making them are, in principle, developed (Zhu and Steudle, 1991). They should be used to see how hydraulic resistances of the two layers would change in response to water deficits. Suberized cells of the exo‐ and endodermis should have a smaller cell Lp. Hence, rates of the propagation of changes in water potential of the root medium across the root (as measured with the cell pressure probe in cortex cells) should be smaller in the presence of a suberized exodermis.

Source: http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/51/350/1531.full#sec-8

And here is an article about rice (which apprently is a flower) that basically says the best yield is produced by watering like flood and drain for veg, but to submerge roots in flowering. It also stresses what d9 has always said about how important it is maximize the amount of water the plants receive while not depriving them of oxygen.

Source: http://ciifad.cornell.edu/sri/extmats/philmanual.pdf

 

[catman]

bottom branches died and went crispy.... obvious root issue due to speed of occurrence and "crispy-ness".

thought I just couldn't hand-water enough and the plant killed the bottom branches to save the tops.... but if I'd stopped and thought about it for a second I'd have realized that was a ridiculous and stupid assumption to make.

Here's the result next to a blood-red broom handle. oops.

Hope ya can post up more pictures in the future. Would think you might find the first part of my previous post interesting regarding your acidic pH.

I did not have a single branch die on me, but I did overlook ensuring that my largest branches weren't always in good positions around the light. I had some fan leafs that went entirely brownish/pale without always wanting to be easily plucked off. No complaints about the quality and quantity of the bud, but still surely not a good sign. I wonder if it was a combination of low humidity (real low, maybe 10% on average) and keeping parts of the plant closer to the light. Although, there was less browning in areas closer to the bulbs than anything. In fact, I had already removed many nugs from the front of these plants becuase they finished quicker so maybe the browning slowed me down.

It wasn't from roots growing and sitting into my runoff because I had ripped the roots off the first plant below, dg's acapulco gold x gn's c99 while allowing them to stay in the two bros grim princess diesel x bros grim c99 plants shown below (one mother and a clone.)


Anyone have any 2 cents?

Did you notice a concentration of roots at the top and bottom of your containers?

 

[mcfly420]

hey everyone,

im still handwatering here, usually 2-3 times during the day with runoff everytime. Ive recently tried cutting out some circles from the wick material to put over the pots, and it seems to be helping so far. Maybe its because my cups are small, clear (I use other cups as ´sleeves´) or nearly full of turface, but I noticed the tops and ~sides would dry out faster than Id like - even though the wick was underwater. Now the entire surface of the turface appears dark, even the wick material is staying damp and roots are growing up into it. Iĺl probably just do a hot water/bleach wash if any obvious salt/algae appears.

so whoever suggested this a while ago for the idea

 

[delta9nxs]

I just saw, at a friends, a tevo of one episode of WEED, where they make hash with just dry ice. Then in collander, sift back in bucket, then everything into a blue bag (???) for final, 'sifting'.
Collect and press or whatever... what is the blue bag? Some kinda 1 millon fulton siftin screen??? HAHA! size/source. any first hand experience with dry ice hash?

i tried the dry ice method and it actually put more green material into the drum than the blender method.

it doesn't make much difference how you separate the trichs as long as you wash them thoroughly so i'm going to stick with the blender for now.

 

[delta9nxs]

Hey IF, there's little danger I'll ever run a full PPK with pulsed top feed. too many feed tubes for my little SOG (28 plantlets in 5 sq ft).
But you never know...actually I already have a drip feed manifold like Pico's and that HD timer...bet I could hook everything up for a pulsed feed in less than an hour... but then when I want to move plants around...oh never mind!



You got me alright, d9! All that talk about hydraulic redistribution and perched water tables has lured me to the Darkside! Hope I can go back before it's too late. Right now I'm quite content that these wicks will plug a big drain on my yields. I'm not concerned about algae because algae won't hurt my yield. They won't eat too much and there's plenty of food for everyone! When it comes to growing, I'm like the honey badger - nothing stops me. Honey badger don't give a shit about algae!
hey this was my post #666 the number of the beast...oh dear, now I'm in trouble!

once you go ppk, you just can't stay away!

excellent book by robert ruark called "the honey badger". it's a novel basically about his love life in which he describes women as being like honey badgers, who are known to go for the nuts when attacking big game. they tear their genitals off and let them bleed to death.

 

[delta9nxs]

disciple, 1/2" air gap is not enough for a hand watered ppk. you should use a 3" gap.

and a 3-4" gap in the pulse fed one.

in conjunction with the 3" air gap i would use a 4/1 turface/rice hull mix instead of a 3/1. editing to say that this applies to the hand watered version.

if you drill a single hole at the 3" level from the top and feed once per day to a slight run off you should have no problems.

aren't chimeras beans available at the boo?

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, catman! i haven't had time to read the papers completely but i'm working on it.

thanks for the pics!

 

[disciple]

 

[disciple]

 

[disciple]

 

[catman]

I understood what ya meant man. I shoulda been more clear. I'd like to see some pics of roots that we all talk about. This is like 3 weeks after I chopped the plants so don't know if that effected them. I fed with the entire Fox Form line and Big Bloom stains the color a bit. Some of the picks are after I shook em off a bit and lots of tiny roots fell off. Turface/Perlite/Hail