passive plant killer

[Snook]

hi, snook! welcome! thank you for the kind words. so you are already growing in one of these? please relate your experience.

i tried to respond to you earlier but it seems the site was down for a while.

i only use the goop on the tailpiece/bucket connection. nowhere else. both the 1/4" od drip line and the 3/8" od line are connected by black latex rubber tubing, 3/16" id and 5/16" id respectively.

i don't have time tonight but tomorrow i'll show the pieces connected.

i was using 3/8" od blue translucent air hose. i thought blue was supposed to suppress algae. well, this stuff not only did not suppress algae, it fostered it, nurtured it, spoon fed it and tucked it in at night. within 2 weeks of installation they were all clogging up daily.

so, i'm making the switch to black 3/8" od food and refrigeration tubing. not as flexible as the vinyl tubing you found but cheap.

well, welcome aboard and grow big!

d9

oh yeah, i used to spear snook. one of the best eating fish in florida. next to hog snapper and yellowtail.

I used to grow DWC, in 25gallon tubs, my sucess was very good but 2-3 trips away each year left me with leaving daily tasks with my son and I'd rather not have that happen. Neighbors and questions. So you words about flexible and stable, and about 4 or 5 other things have me into the ppk.

I've been lurking, reading and converting - made the switch to ppk about a year ago. Started the 3rd go on 5/31 (Bloom).

My experiences? Because of limited veg space, plants are smaller than you describe at the start of bloom and yields have been down but I'm expecting better this run. I run them in a tent, verticle with a 600w above a 400w, both HPS, but not perpetual, in a tent (5'x5'x7'). Currently 3, Sour Diesel (from seed, unsexed) and 3, F-13 clones.

Pulsing has been my biggest hang-up, attempting to keep the top coco as wet as you describe. 350gph pump @ 15sec/4hrs is good but not enough. 3" gap.
If it is run any sooner or longer, water out the drilled holes in the pot and on the floor. You say that should not happen. I'm thinking that because I go from the small vegging ppk, w turfass and nova, directly to the PPK in the tent: there isn't enough root mass and structure to absorbe the pulse water?

As soon as I figure out how to get pics onto my computer and resized to IC specs, I'll post pics.

And drilling out the tire valves gets me to 11/64" hole rather than the way they come out of the box @ 7/64". That little hole can clog quickly.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

If it is run any sooner or longer, water out the drilled holes in the pot and on the floor. You say that should not happen. I'm thinking that because I go from the small vegging ppk, w turfass and nova, directly to the PPK in the tent: there isn't enough root mass and structure to absorbe the pulse water

Can you run it sooner and shorter?

There are links buried in this thread somewhere that suggest coco responds to more frequent top pulses of lesser volume than longer, less frequent ones.

You say you're not running perpetual.

With a flower space like you have available, combined with a 2x4 veg tent, you can run longer strains (72 days) or really stretchy ones to the ceiling on 18 day rotation. Decent vertical scrog, training, etc. is more important in your space than in delta's due to the single stack down the center. You'll want almost the opposite shape of what D9 is training towards, that is, his plants are between the lamps, being trained to the center. You might want to try and train everything in a semicircle...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Collected from my summary thread:

On the same page, D9 tossed out this sweet link:
Quote:
anyone who hasn't read the andrew olley presentation and grows in coco should read this.
http://www.iasa.co.za/downloads/symp...ew%20Olley.pdf
One of the things that caught my eye in the summary of the presentation is that emphasizes that increased watering demands are matched not by increased volume but by increased watering frequency. (This is how I've been managing my pulse feeds. Not based on something like Olley's technical experience, but because I drilled all the way to the bottom of the buckets and larger volume pulses=puddles.)

In unrelated stories, I guess I've been lurking around this part of this forum long enough to start getting disappointed when people's accounts disappear.

C. Carlson was a bummer, last night, I noticed Scrog McDuck's account is gone. I hope everyone is healthy and safe...

 

[zeke99]

Just a few pics to show my progress. All veg containers are now linked. They are all set at 4.5” by the control bucket. They were filled through the control bucket to insure that all lines were flowing correctly. I don't have the volume tank hooked up yet, i'll do that tomorrow.

Now I get to find the ideal water level, nute feed strength, etc. more fun.

D9, this is an old post, but I'm curious about how it works.

They are all set at 4.5” by the control bucket.

This is determined by the height at which one installs the float valve in the control bucket, and that is all?

 

[Snook]

Can you run it sooner and shorter?

There are links buried in this thread somewhere that suggest coco responds to more frequent top pulses of lesser volume than longer, less frequent ones.

You say you're not running perpetual.

With a flower space like you have available, combined with a 2x4 veg tent, you can run longer strains (72 days) or really stretchy ones to the ceiling on 18 day rotation. Decent vertical scrog, training, etc. is more important in your space than in delta's due to the single stack down the center. You'll want almost the opposite shape of what D9 is training towards, that is, his plants are between the lamps, being trained to the center. You might want to try and train everything in a semicircle...

I wish I could shoehorn another tent into the room for veg.
Right now I've taken a set of Lowes metal shelving and partitioned it off into 1, 18" section and a 2nd, ??? 55" section. One for clones and one to veg in. It is 14" deep and 32" wide and it is on wheels so I can get to another part of the room when necessary. T5s for lights.

Semi circle is what has developed. If all 3 SDs ar girls, it will be crowed in there.

I will try 10 seconds every 2 hours.. that would be about 4-5 oz.
and I'm thinking raise the GAP to 3" from 3.5, might help gain the 'wet' top inches of the coco. Right now its wet but no 'dripping between the fingers'.

I'm not good enough for perpetual. Lazy SOB. Yea, not alot to do with the ppks, but thats why I'm doin it this way. Think I have a touch of AADD.

I run the F13 for 70+ days and the SD is supposed to be good in 77.

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[delta9nxs]

ok, some pics to look at until later. i got shit to do!

it occurred to me that i have never actually shown how i build a pulse manifold. also it is an opportunity to answer some questions. i'll be back!

1 and 2 are pump bucket showing holes. 1/4" holes for the pulse lines, 7/16" hole for the supply line, and a 5/16" hole for the pump power cord. the power cord hole shows the slit cut so that the power cord can be snapped in without cutting off the plug. all holes are through sidewall and tight fitting in order to better control evaporation. a lid is used in operation.

3. mag-drive 950. i'm using this size pump because i had two of them left over from a bio-bucket setup. it doesn't hurt to use the largest pump you can as this shortens the delivery time.

4 and 5 shows a standard pvc connector. this one is for 3/4" pvc pipe. i'm reusing the old one as it already had the holes for the pulse line. i have 9 containers in flower so 9 holes. these holes are drilled 7/32". the od of the drip line is 1/4" so the drip line is held in place once installed.

6. square cut drip line will not go through 7/32" hole.

7. so cut it at a taper.

8,9,10. start taper in hole, grab it with a pair of needlenose, and pull it through.

 

[delta9nxs]

1,2,3. show the tapered end being cut off square. repeat as necessary.

4. installed. this method doesn't leak and requires considerable force to remove the lines.

5. with top on and 3/4" plug installed where a pipe would normally go.

6.7. rubber electricians tape to build up pump outlet to where you get a tight fit in the connector.

8. these are compression fittings so constrict when tightened.

9,10. manifold installed and in the pump bucket.

 

[delta9nxs]

1. control bucket showing float installed centered at the 10" level. zeke, please notice the wingnut. this allows you to adjust water level in response to different conditions.

2. control bucket with all parts installed. you need a valve for each plant container and one for the line to the pump bucket.

3. pump bucket with 3/16" quick connectors. connectors are 3" pieces of 3/16" id black latex tubing.

4. shows pump bucket tire valve, a 3" piece of 5/16" id black latex tubing, and a piece of the 3/8" od, 1/4" id, black food grade tubing.

5. connected

6. this is just to illustrate how tight and waterproof the connection is. it takes some force to get one off.

 

[MedScientist]

Awesome Step by Step w/lots of pics!

 

[cyat]

nice D9!

 

[Snook]

Air manafold for pulse

Air manafold for pulse

I looked at your pics for the pulse manafold and tried but I am not capable and have gone with this: http://www.growwurks.com/air-manifolds.aspx

using a 6 outlet one of these attached thru a 1/2barb x npt threded fitting into the pump with a piece of 1/2inch hose to the manafold. 1/4"ID tube fits the nipples well.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

There are similar manifolds available in steel (intended for air pumps) with individual valves...

 

[delta9nxs]

medscientist and cyat, thanks! i'm one of those visually oriented people and i know pics help me a lot.

hey, snook! those are very nice manifolds, thanks! cheap, too. we are always trying to keep cost down. i was in the plumbing section of lowes one day and realized i could make them myself from these fittings.

i was thinking about your statement about water coming out of the sidewall holes and i have a few questions:

what size container are you using?

are you using one of these 1.5" tailpieces?

is your medium all coco or is it mixed with something else?

if it is all coco what brand is it?

do you pack the medium?

and, finally, could i get you to actually measure the pulse volume?

i think that, with the answers to these questions, we can figure out why you are getting the overflow.

 

[zeke99]

D9

thanks for the step-by-step on the pulse system.

you may have missed my question about automating the bottom bucket in post 2024

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4479615&postcount=2024

My new beans should be arriving soon. Blue City Diesel. I almost can't wait to build PPKs. My last DTW plants are going into bloom now - 5 gallon buckets.

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, IF! i didn't know scrog was gone. i knew about carl's absence and miss his input. and now scrog. he is one of the people i have known on different forums for 4-5 years. a really nice guy. i hope both he and carl will see this and come back.

we have a great group of people here and, over time, we do make friends even though we don't know each others real names. we are still dealing with another entity that we have come to understand somewhat and empathize with. just as if we were face to face. we are all human and share one another's experiences.

 

[Snook]

medscientist and cyat, thanks! i'm one of those visually oriented people and i know pics help me a lot.

hey, snook! those are very nice manifolds, thanks! cheap, too. we are always trying to keep cost down. i was in the plumbing section of lowes one day and realized i could make them myself from these fittings.

i was thinking about your statement about water coming out of the sidewall holes and i have a few questions:

what size container are you using?

are you using one of these 1.5" tailpieces?

is your medium all coco or is it mixed with something else?

if it is all coco what brand is it?

do you pack the medium?

and, finally, could i get you to actually measure the pulse volume?

i think that, with the answers to these questions, we can figure out why you are getting the overflow.

Useing 3.5s to and bottom. Holes are 7/16. Yes 1.5 tailpiece, cut to 1/4 inch from the bottom of the bottom bucket. Coco is Canna, cant find Atami around here. "do I pack the medium? I pack the tail piece somewhat then the coco is, I guess, not packed too much, there arent any voids in there. The pump is 350ghm magdrive.

I will measure the amt of the pulse tomorrow, when lights are on. My guess, from previous measuring is about 8 oz for the 15 secs it is on. Actually, I have moved the pulse to 2 hours at 20 seconds now and results are good, no seepage. but yes I'll measure tomorrow. No matter what I try though, I can not get to dripppage from the top layer of coco. I will also work on getting som pics up.

Thanks.

 

[delta9nxs]

D9, this is an old post, but I'm curious about how it works.

This is determined by the height at which one installs the float valve in the control bucket, and that is all?

hi, zeke, i didn't forget. just been kinda busy.

the ppk is a "tunable" device. by that i mean it can be adjusted to compensate for different environmental conditions or to achieve different moisture profiles.

there are two methods for doing this.

first, using an adjustable float valve to establish a "controlled water table", you can raise or lower the sub-irrigated wetted profile in the growing container by adjusting the water level in the reservoir.

imagine a car cylinder with a domed top piston in it. that is approximately the shape of the profile of the sub-irrigation. by adjusting the water level you can control the height of the sub profile.

as moisture content is not static but is graded in density by gravity you can alter the amount of solution at almost any point in the medium simply by moving the reservoir level up or down.

practical application in use would be walking by your plants and noticing some of the fan leaves tubed downward. this is a symptom of too much moisture and it is probably robbing you of air porosity so you drop the solution level in the control bucket an inch. or humidity has gone down 30 points and the tops are feeling a little dry even though you are pulsing so you raise it an inch.

the plant will probably survive and grow through these hypothetical events without you doing anything about it.

but if you are observant and make the corrections you will grow a better plant.

the second tool is the pulsed irrigation.

just as you have a wetted profile for the sub-irrigation you also have a profile when watering from the top. the profiles vary according to the manner in which you water.

hand watering is even in application with a water breaker of some kind and if you can do it 12 times a day with precise amounts it will create a very even profile. wide and even.

with a continuous drip the liquid hits the top and spreads initially. then tends to reform into a column. looks kind of like a funnel. this area will be supersaturated at all times and will have little air porosity. water does not disperse laterally very well. this is because of the continuous force of gravity. it does not allow a break from the propelling influence of the mass constantly being applied from above.

the pulsed profile is relieved of this continuous downward force by it's intermittent application. in a moist medium hysteresis causes the solution to disperse in all directions. root growth in the very top of the medium is nothing less than spectacular. looks good too.

whew!

this effect can also be controlled by the duration of the pulsed event and the interval between events.


i hope this helps, d9

 

[delta9nxs]

Useing 3.5s to and bottom. Holes are 7/16. Yes 1.5 tailpiece, cut to 1/4 inch from the bottom of the bottom bucket. Coco is Canna, cant find Atami around here. "do I pack the medium? I pack the tail piece somewhat then the coco is, I guess, not packed too much, there arent any voids in there. The pump is 350ghm magdrive.

I will measure the amt of the pulse tomorrow, when lights are on. My guess, from previous measuring is about 8 oz for the 15 secs it is on. Actually, I have moved the pulse to 2 hours at 20 seconds now and results are good, no seepage. but yes I'll measure tomorrow. No matter what I try though, I can not get to dripppage from the top layer of coco. I will also work on getting som pics up.

Thanks.

hey, snook, it doesn't have to actually drip. just seeing moisture between your fingers is good enough. that 2 hours and twenty seconds sounds about right. it's summer and humidity is up. you might want to run a 4" air gap also for a while.

later

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Nice rundown on the humidity profile...

Definitely matches my observations...

 

[Snook]

hey, snook, it doesn't have to actually drip. just seeing moisture between your fingers is good enough. that 2 hours and twenty seconds sounds about right. it's summer and humidity is up. you might want to run a 4" air gap also for a while.

later

It's moist, dark in color, but no "seeing moisture between your fingers".

I've been raising the gap (now 3 inches), trying to accomplish "seeing moisture between your fingers".

Is packing the coco, desirable? I didn't think I read that.

I was filling 6 PPKs, finding that 1 bag of canna coco (50ltrs?),
rinsed and 'charged', will fill 3, 3.5gal bucket, perfectly, without packing it down, right to the brim of the buckets.

How much can you pack it?