OZZ goes micro

[OZZ_]

Mate, this is so slick. Thanks very much for showing us how cab building should be done. Legend. I’m sure your current grow is going to make some great bud.

Also - I’m really looking forward to seeing what you do with all that Ace gear. Since I started growing Ace I haven’t used another seed bank. Not to say there isn’t a plethora of amazing genetics out there... just saying that if you have a passion for interesting and unique sativas you are in for a huge treat with Ace.

Thanks for stopping in Pandy and thanks for the huge compliment. Yes, I flipped this Chocolate Mint OG freebie super early. In all honesty she needed vegged out for another 2-3 weeks before flipping her as there has been very, very little stretch as of yet. As mentioned though really I only was growing her as a safety net since this is a new setup, in order to iron out anything that might be wrong. I’m glad I did too because that happy frog soil sucks. My panamas will be getting my usual mix that has always served me well.... promix HP, worm castings, some extra perilite and lime. Then mixed with a nice granular. I’ll supplement with Neptune’s fish/seaweed later in flower and a ACT if they seem like they need anything extra. For now it will be store bought worm castings, but after that grow I should have plenty of homemade castings ready and enough worms to add a few to the plants container (something I like to do and has worked out well).

I’m waiting on ACEs breeders pack of Panama as well, as I’m really after the F10 elite goddess green pheno. Honestly, I could have waited as the breeder pack comes with 5 fem seeds straight from the green goddess herself, so I’ll be running those out too looking for my keeper mom.

It’s ok though I’ll need a nice male to make seeds from her anyway once I find her and I’d like to make some seeds on a more open pollinated based to preserve the genetic diversity, so I’ll be keeping a close lookout for males too.

Not exactly sure how I’m going to pheno hunt since I’m so tight on space, but I figure I’ll let these gems sex out and see what I have, and what their structure looks like, and go from there. ��

As for now, I’ll just sit back and see how this Chocolate Mint OG does, and how these panamas start playing out. After I get seeds made and find the F10 green goddess, I’ll have to decide between Malawi, Golden Tigers, or the infamous Zamaldelica (or Bangi haze, or PCK, or Tikal, Nepal Jam, OTH or or.... ) Lmao.... It’s going to be a fun ride!

 

[PandyFackler]

Thanks for stopping in Pandy and thanks for the huge compliment. Yes, I flipped this Chocolate Mint OG freebie super early. In all honesty she needed vegged out for another 2-3 weeks before flipping her as there has been very, very little stretch as of yet. As mentioned though really I only was growing her as a safety net since this is a new setup, in order to iron out anything that might be wrong. I’m glad I did too because that happy frog soil sucks. My panamas will be getting my usual mix that has always served me well.... promix HP, worm castings, some extra perilite and lime. Then mixed with a nice granular. I’ll supplement with Neptune’s fish/seaweed later in flower and a ACT if they seem like they need anything extra. For now it will be store bought worm castings, but after that grow I should have plenty of homemade castings ready and enough worms to add a few to the plants container (something I like to do and has worked out well).

I’m waiting on ACEs breeders pack of Panama as well, as I’m really after the F10 elite goddess green pheno. Honestly, I could have waited as the breeder pack comes with 5 fem seeds straight from the green goddess herself, so I’ll be running those out too looking for my keeper mom.

It’s ok though I’ll need a nice male to make seeds from her anyway once I find her and I’d like to make some seeds on a more open pollinated based to preserve the genetic diversity, so I’ll be keeping a close lookout for males too.

Not exactly sure how I’m going to pheno hunt since I’m so tight on space, but I figure I’ll let these gems sex out and see what I have, and what their structure looks like, and go from there. ��

That’s almost exactly the same as the soil mix I used to use when I lived in Canada. Then I’d mix in a bunch of Gaia organic amendments and, yep, Neptune fish/seaweed every now and then. Great stuff. Also worm casting tea once a week. Very reliable and reusable mix. I miss those days! Loved growing in a vertical setup.

The Neptune can be a little hot for some of the more finicky sativas but Panama will gobble it up no problem.

You will find some great plants from that pack of Panama regs man. I’ve flowered a few individuals from the regs and they were all really good. If you’re after a good green pheno watch out for lemony smells.

 

[OZZ_]

That’s almost exactly the same as the soil mix I used to use when I lived in Canada. Then I’d mix in a bunch of Gaia organic amendments and, yep, Neptune fish/seaweed every now and then. Great stuff. Also worm casting tea once a week. Very reliable and reusable mix. I miss those days! Loved growing in a vertical setup.

The Neptune can be a little hot for some of the more finicky sativas but Panama will gobble it up no problem.

You will find some great plants from that pack of Panama regs man. I’ve flowered a few individuals from the regs and they were all really good. If you’re after a good green pheno watch out for lemony smells.

That’s what I hear! The thing is, I ALSO ordered the breeders pack.... which has 5 fem seeds each from the F10 green goddess, the F8 green goddess, and then 5 seeds that are mixed between the pink and
Red phenos. So I’m thinking I’ll grow out this regular pack, pick the best female, then pop the 5 F10 green goddess phenos and compare them to her? Probably an over kill in all honesty as I realize the line is very worked.

Then again... this approach would work well if I still had more space and my 3x3’s and 4x4 tents.... not so much now that I’m stuck to my little cab lmao. I’m determined to make it work somehow though! I can’t imagine how I would flower out more than one plant in there at a time?

 

[OZZ_]

Hmmmm... I’m not sure I’m a fan of these HLG boards. I have an HLG 550 that is in storage and I haven’t had a chance to use it yet due to current space constraints. I like the design of the boards, and they definitely have that *cool* factor. However they run MUCH hotter than I thought they would and do you see how much headroom I have there? Yesterday I tried to raise the plant closer to the light by putting something under the container, it was only raised maybe 4-5” closer and within an hour it start drooping from stress. Even with that glass heat shield which keeps temps in a great range, 77-82 degrees, but being even just 5” closer to that LED panel had the plant stressed!? What gives?? Is it radiation of some sort? As mentioned it’s not heat, temps at the canopy level we’re 81 degrees. I’ve had micro setups in the past with a 250w hps and was able to get the plants within inches of the bulb only the 250 hps puts out 30,000 lumens and this LED panel only puts out 15,000 that’s double the light output and I was able to get the plants literally touching the glass heatshield in a similar design. If I can’t get the plants any closer to the panels, what’s the point? It eats up all your headroom and for *most* home growers vertical space can be a premium, even in tents. Between that and the ease of being able to cool hps or MH bulbs via cool tubes or air cooled hoods vs these panels that just radiate the heat all over the space.... I’m not sure the pros outweigh the cons.

 

[PandyFackler]

That does seem like a bit of a pickle. I’ve been using a citizen cob with a 50w driver in my cab and it doesn’t get hot at all. It’s insanely efficient. You can get it so close that the plants get light bleached before they’re heat damaged.

It’s the first time I’ve ever grown solely with LED but I’m fairly happy with it. I’m still an HID lover though. Think you could get a 150w HPS in there?

 

[Boocoodinkydow]

We’re basically battling two different types of heat in our enclosed grow chambers, convective and radiant. Incandescent bulbs such as HPS, MH, CMH, etc., are examples of convective heat. The enclosed element transfers heat to the glass enclosure that in turn heats the surrounding air. LED’s, conversely, transfer heat by radiation, similar to the warming effects of the sun. Holding the back of your hand near the LED gives little heat sensation which can be deceiving and prompting us to think it’s safe to bring LED’s in closer proximity to the plant. In fact the radiant heat can quickly do harm to tender plant surfaces. I, like you, found I can place my HPS/MH bulbs much closer to my plants than an LED. I typically try to maintain about 7-8” with incandescents and I’ve seen some LED manufacturers that recommend 20” as a safe distance.

 

[OZZ_]

That does seem like a bit of a pickle. I’ve been using a citizen cob with a 50w driver in my cab and it doesn’t get hot at all. It’s insanely efficient. You can get it so close that the plants get light bleached before they’re heat damaged.

It’s the first time I’ve ever grown solely with LED but I’m fairly happy with it. I’m still an HID lover though. Think you could get a 150w HPS in there?

Pandy, with a few minor modifications... I’m 100% certain I can fit a 250w hps in there. I’ve done it before in a space smaller than this and I was literally able to have the plants growing into the glass heat shield.

The only difference is I will effectively need to seal off the light chamber from the grow chamber thereby basically having two separate chambers with the glass as the divider. I can add an intake to the top light chamber to allow fresh air in and remove the carbon scrubber from that exhaust for the lighting chamber which will increase airflow. Then a second exhaust will be cut in the bottom grow chamber and the carbon scrubber will be put there.

By separating the two chambers each with their own intakes and exhaust, there’s no smell leaking to the top chamber so I don’t need a scrubber there improving cooling capacity ... and there’s minimal heat leaking into the grow chamber so the exhaust fan there doesn’t need to contend with heat. What little heat does radiate into the bottom chamber is expelled easily. Both exhaust fans are now way more efficient (plus there’s two now instead of one) and can run at lower speeds because they are dealing with smaller volumes of air.

Works like a charm. The only problem I’ll need to consider is how to seal off the top light chamber while still having access to the bulb.

 

[OZZ_]

We’re basically battling two different types of heat in our enclosed grow chambers, convective and radiant. Incandescent bulbs such as HPS, MH, CMH, etc., are examples of convective heat. The enclosed element transfers heat to the glass enclosure that in turn heats the surrounding air. LED’s, conversely, transfer heat by radiation, similar to the warming effects of the sun. Holding the back of your hand near the LED gives little heat sensation which can be deceiving and prompting us to think it’s safe to bring LED’s in closer proximity to the plant. In fact the radiant heat can quickly do harm to tender plant surfaces. I, like you, found I can place my HPS/MH bulbs much closer to my plants than an LED. I typically try to maintain about 7-8” with incandescents and I’ve seen some LED manufacturers that recommend 20” as a safe distance.

Boo- this is great info and sounds like exactly what I’m experiencing. The glass heat shield lowered ambient air temps dramatically but I still can’t get the plant close without it screaming for help (in plant language).

Looks like I’m going to need to cram a 250hps in there as per my response to Pandy above. Back to the drawing board!

And this folks.... is exactly why I run freebies in a new space before breaking out expensive genetics!

Updates to come!

 

[OZZ_]

Day 7 12/12 .... pistils are showing, and the leaves are showing stress from being to close to that LED panel. As discussed above this panel isn’t going to work in this setup since the minimum required distance from the tops seems to be about 12”, it eats up all my headspace.

I have a trip planned at the end of August to head back to Arizona, where all my equipment is stored. I’ll grab a 250w hps ballast and bulb and install it then, but for now this girl is going to have to deal with the stress from the ‘radiant’ heat coming off this panel.

Also the 7 panamas are looking good in their little veg box.

 

[OZZ_]

That does seem like a bit of a pickle. I’ve been using a citizen cob with a 50w driver in my cab and it doesn’t get hot at all. It’s insanely efficient. You can get it so close that the plants get light bleached before they’re heat damaged.

It’s the first time I’ve ever grown solely with LED but I’m fairly happy with it. I’m still an HID lover though. Think you could get a 150w HPS in there?

Pandy- how close are you getting the tops to the COB before you have issues? I’m eindering if I would have the same issues with a COB in there?

 

[PandyFackler]

Pandy- how close are you getting the tops to the COB before you have issues? I’m eindering if I would have the same issues with a COB in there?

My girls were happy enough about 4-5 inches away.

It has an efficiency rating of 2.1 umol/j. Kicks off the heat of fluorescents but with enough power to burn a hole in your retina!

You might need 2 or 3 in there. My 50w is just about right for my 2.25 sq.ft.

 

[OZZ_]

Good to know, thanks for the info. This cab is 2.55 sq ft so one of those cobs would probably do it. Looks like I’m going to have to go back to the drawing board on several things here, as we are one week into flowering and now my scrubber isn’t keeping up either. It was fine until a few days ago and now the entire room reeks lol. It’s ok, I’ll tweak it until I get it right!

 

[PandyFackler]

Oh wow I honestly thought that your cab was a bit bigger. You have a lot more headroom which is where I’m really hurting.

My scrubber is just a Tupperware with holes and tights filled with carbon inside. It’s very rudimentary, I honestly didn’t think it would work, but it worked like a charm. I’ll get a few pics for you when I can.

A lot of Ace strains don’t have the stank that many others do. The further up the NLD line, the more delicate the smells seem to be. I imagine if I had something skunky in my cab my scrubber would struggle big time.

 

[OZZ_]

Oh wow I honestly thought that your cab was a bit bigger. You have a lot more headroom which is where I’m really hurting.

My scrubber is just a Tupperware with holes and tights filled with carbon inside. It’s very rudimentary, I honestly didn’t think it would work, but it worked like a charm. I’ll get a few pics for you when I can.

A lot of Ace strains don’t have the stank that many others do. The further up the NLD line, the more delicate the smells seem to be. I imagine if I had something skunky in my cab my scrubber would struggle big time.

Good deal! My scrubber is just on the verge of being enough, sometimes it’s ok and sometimes it’s lagging a bit, I imagine deeper into flowering it’s going to be a different story.

I ordered A solsheet to replace this HLG panel. It’s three solstrips x2’s at 27,000 lumens, with a 120 watt dimmable driver. Ive seen these being used in cabs and there’s plants getting within inches of these lights, so hopefully it will solve my issue in the flower cab. We will see!

 

[Frosty Nuggets]

Nice setup with both cabinets, very stylish.

 

[hush]

I just want to add a +1 to the comment about being able to put HPS bulbs closer to plants than LEDs. I've experienced this consistently, even with non-COB, lower-output budget models. With my current LED fixture, Viparspectra v600, I have to keep it 20"-24" above the top of the canopy or I see bleaching.

LEDs are awesome, of course, but it does seem like they aren't always the best option for a microgrow, unless the microgrow has a lot of vertical space.

 

[OZZ_]

Micro armoire test grow day 14 12/12

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

looking healthy

 

[OZZ_]

looking healthy

Mr Sparkle ... Thanks for stopping by, I’ve actually purchased a solsheet and a 4” AC infinity fan to redo this cabunet due to your threads and a few suggestions here. The HLG 100 board needs to much space above the canopy, and the 3 solstrips X2s put out more lumens.

I have not been able to find a Par test for the solstrips/solsheet though... but the HLG 100 puts out 15,000 lumens and the solsheet 27,000... I bought a HLG-120 driver for it so i should have around 135-140 watts at my disposal. Of which I’ll probably dim it down. Regardless, I saw you were able to get your plants within inches of those solstrips with no stress so that’s my goal.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Should work great for you they worked well for me, but they only put out more lumens depending on what you have them running at and personally running them at or near the stated power they get way way too hot imo i typically ran them up into the 30-35w a strip max range, just due to the density of the chips the heat builds up fast or can even with adequate heat sinks.

I just recently moved on to arrys made from bridgelux eb series gen 2's strips as the light output was relatively the same as solstrips with how i was running them, but their form factor, heat generation, coverage and well there about 1/2 to 2/3rds the price comparably to solstrips and cheap enough that i think led SIL "screw in light" arrays are more or less dead as a bare bones cheapest option imo now well so long as you have some electrical and diy skills, which most people do who build sil arrays anyways.

But yeah they should work well for you, ive just moved on quite recently put together my second light wednesday definitely happy so far.