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OUTDOOR GROWS 2023 -ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE-

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
I seem to like to keep my outdoor plants as groomed as possible removing any unnecessary or unhealthy foliage and all the little stems & sucker shoots, plus as the plants get bigger and benefits to get that airflow inside
For me it depends on the structure of the plant. Something like cfl...'s, you've got to do something with it or else it's going to yield less and mold (if the climate is humid) like crazy. Clones tend to bush out quite a bit more than seedlings and I usually only grow seedlings so I prune less than almost everybody else. My opinion changes from year to year, the last couple times I've had busy plants like that I had to prune a lot. They molded like crazy anyway and all the pruning wounds rotted so I've been more cautious about what I do.

On Instagram I've seen people that remove everything, every leaf and branch, from the bottom half of their plant. I find it aesthetically displeasing and the plant turns out as nothing special or impressive. The tops don't blow up huge. They're indoor growers, growing outdoors. They get a half oz or a oz a plant of nice little nugs and they're happy, I guess. It's different then lollipopping or training or pruning or anything else. So I try to dissuade people from it, but we're all different growers and do things our own way.

I know an old guy, lives off in the mountains in a cabin, he doesn't touch his plants. He has one weird thing he does, he'll tie his plants over on the ground. But that's it. He doesn't even remove the dead leaves. It's bone dry out there so he can do that. (and it bugs me) But he never prunes or leafs, grows huge plants and gets big yields. If that's scratch, the starting point, what can I do from there to improve things? And a lot of the stuff I try doesn't do as well as he does. So I keep going back to scratch and working from there.

One thing I don't do much of anymore is leafing. It's mostly the older leaves lower in the plant earlier in the year. I've found it doesn't make that big of a difference either way. You can strip half the leaves off, or not, and the plant is still going to do what it does. One thing I do different than everybody else. Once the plants get to early mid-flower I leave them alone. I wait until the leaves are almost dead before I pull them off. Almost everyone else pulls the leaves the moment they start to fade.

In Marijuana Botany Robert Connell Clarke says the plants are mining the leaves for nutrients in flowering, stripping the N,P, and K out of them to push the flowering. I don't think the plant wastes nutrients keeping them alive, I think it's the opposite. The leaves supply nutrients for flowering. Only we don't notice it because we're feeding our plants so much. The leaf produces sugar for the plant, and it gives the nutrients it used to create the leaf back. So stripping doesn't make sense, unless you're letting light penetrate into it. But if it's just penetrating into the stalk what's it doing?

I've noticed in wet weather the canopy provides protection from the wind and rain. Keeps the inside of the plant and the ground underneath the plant dry. The plants on the outside of my 'wall of plants' and the flowers at the tips are more mold prone than the stuff that's protected further down the branch. A reason why the biggest flowers at the top always get waterlogged and rot.

We talk a lot about 'air circulation', what we really mean is a plant that's overly bushy with a soaked interior. The light doesn't penetrate so the interior isn't able to dry out. I think the air circulates fine because you're outside. The humidity, the wind, is what it is. It's that the plant takes too long to dry out because the growth is so thick. This is different than the outer canopy I'm talking about that keeps the plant's interior dry. I don't mind a thick outer canopy but I want an open interior.

I believe the leaves dry the plant, the buds, out faster, through transpiration, than if it was fully leafed. As soon as the rain stops and the sun hits it the plant has to pull water from somewhere to keep the leaves from wilting. It's going to come from either the ground or the soggy flowers. If you haven't been watering and the inside of your plant is dry it's going to have to pull water from the outer wet areas to maintain it's moisture balance.

I've always grown in the PNW, basically in a rain forest, so I think and experiment a lot with this stuff over the years. A plant in an open field by itself will always get soaked and rot much faster than plants in a group lined up against a wall of trees and vegetation. If the wind break is to the N/NE/NW. You want the south to be open for full sun.
 

revegeta666

Not ICMag Donor
For me it depends on the structure of the plant. Something like cfl...'s, you've got to do something with it or else it's going to yield less and mold (if the climate is humid) like crazy. Clones tend to bush out quite a bit more than seedlings and I usually only grow seedlings so I prune less than almost everybody else. My opinion changes from year to year, the last couple times I've had busy plants like that I had to prune a lot. They molded like crazy anyway and all the pruning wounds rotted so I've been more cautious about what I do.

On Instagram I've seen people that remove everything, every leaf and branch, from the bottom half of their plant. I find it aesthetically displeasing and the plant turns out as nothing special or impressive. The tops don't blow up huge. They're indoor growers, growing outdoors. They get a half oz or a oz a plant of nice little nugs and they're happy, I guess. It's different then lollipopping or training or pruning or anything else. So I try to dissuade people from it, but we're all different growers and do things our own way.

I know an old guy, lives off in the mountains in a cabin, he doesn't touch his plants. He has one weird thing he does, he'll tie his plants over on the ground. But that's it. He doesn't even remove the dead leaves. It's bone dry out there so he can do that. (and it bugs me) But he never prunes or leafs, grows huge plants and gets big yields. If that's scratch, the starting point, what can I do from there to improve things? And a lot of the stuff I try doesn't do as well as he does. So I keep going back to scratch and working from there.

One thing I don't do much of anymore is leafing. It's mostly the older leaves lower in the plant earlier in the year. I've found it doesn't make that big of a difference either way. You can strip half the leaves off, or not, and the plant is still going to do what it does. One thing I do different than everybody else. Once the plants get to early mid-flower I leave them alone. I wait until the leaves are almost dead before I pull them off. Almost everyone else pulls the leaves the moment they start to fade.

In Marijuana Botany Robert Connell Clarke says the plants are mining the leaves for nutrients in flowering, stripping the N,P, and K out of them to push the flowering. I don't think the plant wastes nutrients keeping them alive, I think it's the opposite. The leaves supply nutrients for flowering. Only we don't notice it because we're feeding our plants so much. The leaf produces sugar for the plant, and it gives the nutrients it used to create the leaf back. So stripping doesn't make sense, unless you're letting light penetrate into it. But if it's just penetrating into the stalk what's it doing?

I've noticed in wet weather the canopy provides protection from the wind and rain. Keeps the inside of the plant and the ground underneath the plant dry. The plants on the outside of my 'wall of plants' and the flowers at the tips are more mold prone than the stuff that's protected further down the branch. A reason why the biggest flowers at the top always get waterlogged and rot.

We talk a lot about 'air circulation', what we really mean is a plant that's overly bushy with a soaked interior. The light doesn't penetrate so the interior isn't able to dry out. I think the air circulates fine because you're outside. The humidity, the wind, is what it is. It's that the plant takes too long to dry out because the growth is so thick. This is different than the outer canopy I'm talking about that keeps the plant's interior dry. I don't mind a thick outer canopy but I want an open interior.

I believe the leaves dry the plant, the buds, out faster, through transpiration, than if it was fully leafed. As soon as the rain stops and the sun hits it the plant has to pull water from somewhere to keep the leaves from wilting. It's going to come from either the ground or the soggy flowers. If you haven't been watering and the inside of your plant is dry it's going to have to pull water from the outer wet areas to maintain it's moisture balance.

I've always grown in the PNW, basically in a rain forest, so I think and experiment a lot with this stuff over the years. A plant in an open field by itself will always get soaked and rot much faster than plants in a group lined up against a wall of trees and vegetation. If the wind break is to the N/NE/NW. You want the south to be open for full sun.
Sunlight will go right through leaves so there's really no point in defoliating outdoors other than to improve airflow. Buds from lower branches are almost the same quality as the top ones. With a bushy clone I think it's important to prune the suckers that are inside the plant and will only take resources away from the main branches. With a seed plant, there's nothing prettier than a plant left alone. If anything prune the 2-3 lower nodes to make it harder for crawling pests to find their way on the plant.
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
They are pretty but when I see them and moths, all I can think about is this lol
Why are you guys always picking on the swallowtails and monarchs? Swallowtails aren't 'budworms', most have a host plant they're very specialized to. The eastern black swallowtail for instance goes for Queen Anne's lace although it'll settle for similar plants like carrots, parsley, fennel or dill. That's the case for most caterpillars and moths and butterflies. There's a chance one may stray onto your plant and chew a few leaves but the ones that cause a plague are very specific.

There's only 4 budworms that appear in cannabis literature. These are the only ones that destroy flowers. The cotton bollworm, Helicoverpa amigerathe (regular) bollworm, Helicoverpa zea, the flax noctuid, Heliothis viriplaca, and the hemp bagworm, psyche cannabinella.

Besides those fuckers there's also cutworms and armyworms. They crawl across the ground, sometimes in numbers, and can decimate seedlings. I'm not going to list all the types here but they're likely a drab grey thing that only comes out at night.

Then there's the leaf eaters. I find a few every year. The wasps clean them up pretty well. There's a few dozen types. Many of them stray onto cannabis by accident, once again there's not many that specifically target it. If they do they're easy to find and remove. I haven't ever seen someone's leaves get decimated, I imagine somewhere in India or SE Asia or central America it's possible.
 

revegeta666

Not ICMag Donor
Why are you guys always picking on the swallowtails and monarchs? Swallowtails aren't 'budworms', most have a host plant they're very specialized to. The eastern black swallowtail for instance goes for Queen Anne's lace although it'll settle for similar plants like carrots, parsley, fennel or dill. That's the case for most caterpillars and moths and butterflies. There's a chance one may stray onto your plant and chew a few leaves but the ones that cause a plague are very specific.

There's only 4 budworms that appear in cannabis literature. These are the only ones that destroy flowers. The cotton bollworm, Helicoverpa amigerathe (regular) bollworm, Helicoverpa zea, the flax noctuid, Heliothis viriplaca, and the hemp bagworm, psyche cannabinella.

Besides those fuckers there's also cutworms and armyworms. They crawl across the ground, sometimes in numbers, and can decimate seedlings. I'm not going to list all the types here but they're likely a drab grey thing that only comes out at night.

Then there's the leaf eaters. I find a few every year. The wasps clean them up pretty well. There's a few dozen types. Many of them stray onto cannabis by accident, once again there's not many that specifically target it. If they do they're easy to find and remove. I haven't ever seen someone's leaves get decimated, I imagine somewhere in India or SE Asia or central America it's possible.
Sorry I am Spanish and I have no idea how most of your plants, butterflies or moths are called 🤣 Also, references from American literature might not apply to European countries. Those white butterflies likethe one in the picture, usually lay their eggs on jasmyn plants, and decimate them.
 
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revegeta666

Not ICMag Donor
By Spanish you mean "from Spain?" That's rad.. almost made it to Barcelona once.
Yes sir, Spanish from Spain, just like Iñigo Montoya.
inigomontoyacrop.jpg
 

BrassNwood

Well-known member
Veteran
This morning I was drinking my coffe in the garden and I happened to see this white butterfly flying around, and a wasp come straight towards it, intercept it, drive it to the ground, and start eating it. Sounds mundane but it was pretty badass to see and I may have caught myself cheering a little bit 😳

I have been getting more into pollinators for the last few years, and I have seen wasps carry budworms to their house before, but never saw a full on interception of a butterfly before haha. That's another handful of eggs that won't be laid in my plants I assume 💪
View attachment 18867831

Not great picture but the best I could get.

That is damn cool. I've got the bug zapper on already and the sprayers checked out. Need to see if I should buy a fresh bottle of BT Thuricide. I took some Caterpillar damage last year that I usually don't get. Not sure if I missed a treatment or started a week to late. Does BT get old and lose effectiveness? I often use up the last of the prior year 50% with new if I have leftovers.
 

40degsouth

Well-known member
That’s a good question, I’m sure Microbeman could answer that one if he’s about. I’m pretty sure you can brew it and tank mix it into foliars.
revegeta666…….l always pictured you more like, Spanish from Spain, like Donkey Coyote…….is that how you spell it 🤔🤔😉😉
 

el mani

Well-known member
Veteran
friend @revejeta666, that's a Pieris brassicae, cabbage butterfly, sometimes they wreak havoc on the buds, more because of the poop than because of what they eat.
Today I had a couple of kestrels behind the sparrows... a spectacle as they take them when they get entangled in the chicken coop netting.
Qué zorro estás hecho ¡¡:ROFLMAO:
 

Eltitoguay

Well-known member
Yes sir, Spanish from Spain, just like Iñigo Montoya.
View attachment 18867866

Los Montoya? Aqui estamos los primos... Y contento no tiene el descastado del Iñigo, que se casa nuestra sobrina Saray, y él de viaje por Norteamérica asesinando mariposas monarca a estocadas...

...y encima se ha llevado la tizona toledana de la pared del salón, la que estaba en alto sobre el televisor que usábamos para cortar el jamón y que era un tesoro familiar sagrado desde que la tía Guadalupe la robó en una tienda para turistas de la Plaza de Zocodover hace dos veranos...
Ahora cuando los churumbeles me piden jamón y no tengo con que cortarlo, les tiro directamente la pata al suelo y ell@s ya se emplean sol@s, como l@s cachorr@s de león africanos o los pitbulls del vecino...
..Ya te digo, primo, que para mi el Íñigo nos ha salido más Taranto, que Montoya...
 

EarlyHour

Active member
Thought I might post a couple update pics on my little outdoor SoG setup!
IMG_1693.jpeg

They’re all getting pretty large all things considered, 4-5’ in 3 or 5 gallon bags.
Kumaoni by RSC on the bench, “Oregon Mix” and “Purple Mix” heirloom seeds on the table. Peyote Zkittles x Guawi and Apple Fritter x (Unknown) on my slumlord’s junker car.
IMG_1694.jpeg

IMG_1695.jpeg

A couple huge leaves. First one is the Kumaoni, leaves are about a foot across. The second one is the Oregon Mix. Also very large and quite skinny leaves. Flowering quickly as well. Really curious to see what happens!
IMG_1699.jpeg
IMG_1698.jpeg

A couple pics of the autos for good measure! Despite messing up at the beginning I’m pretty happy with them. They smell delicious!

Also, curious if anyone has ever messed around with deficit irrigation or partial root zone drying? I was reading some interesting papers on its effects on other crops (namely grapes and tomatoes) and it seemed like it could have some interesting potential. I’m just a dude with google though, so I could be missing something. I am gonna run a little “experiment” on a few of these plants though, see what happens! I’m curious to see if anyone has any more info on this technique in regards to cannabis!

Everyone’s gardens are looking incredible too!
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
Sorry I am Spanish and I have no idea how most of your plants, butterflies or moths are called 🤣

I speak English and I got no idea what any of those moths I listed are either. I copied them out of 'Hemp Diseases and Pests: Management and Biological Control'. That's why I included the Latin names if anyone wants to look them up. Reading through this book it's interesting how host specific most insects and diseases are.

For instance I see powdery mildew everywhere from August to November. All over plants and trees in my area. But there's only two types that attack ganja, the only other plant they target is hemp. Makes me wonder how the spores get all over the place. There's hundreds or thousands of types of spider mites but only 2 types that primarily attack ganja. Everything else is incidental. This is why preventative spraying isn't efficient. You end up killing far more beneficials than what you're targeting because there's such a small number you're trying to hit. The problem is when they find your plants and do hit them, and there's no beneficials around to hit them back...

I wrote a lot about pruning, I figure I should be practical and show some pictures to illustrate what I'm talking about. Picked a plant at random this morning, a Nirang X (pot of gold hashplant x apricot helix).

20230720_072612.jpg

It's a seedling with a near perfect structure, I don't see much I'd want to prune or leaf here. I could clean up the lower branches a bit but it's not necessary. It's not like cfl...'s super bushy plant that's begging to be pruned and leafed. But let's take a closer look at the lower limbs.

20230720_072652.jpg


Here we have the lowest limb on the right side of the plant, not well developed. It's not really a 'sucker limb', just doesn't get enough light to develop. It's never going to produce anything. It has a bit of thrip damage and maybe even a few spider mites. I could remove it but it's not hurting anything, I don't think the plant is expending a lot of energy to maintain it and it's healthy green. I may want to use it for cloning material later although I'd have to spray it with something to kill all the pests. I'm not worried about the pests multiplying out of control because it's an outdoor plant.

I know from experience that thrips and spider mites aren't a threat in my area. The natural biological controls keep their numbers in check. There's just enough of them to keep the hungry predators hanging around. The pests also stimulate the plant to produce chemicals that keep it's defenses up, the ones that fight threats like mold, mildew, and other diseases besides leaf hoppers and other pests. Of course I'm monitoring the plant every day so if anything gets thrown out of balance I'll know right away and I can treat it quickly.

If I was really bored and picky I could remove the branch but I'm going to leave it be. Now let's look at the other side of the plant.

20230720_072751.jpg


This is the lowest branch on the other side of the plant. (besides the tiny dingle doingle thing at the lower right) It's got quite a bit more insect damage and most of the leaves are lime green. Only the new leaves at the tip are healthy green. The thing I really don't like are the necrotic patches on a few of the leaves. Could be sunburn, could be from fertilizer splashing up and burning the leaves. Now that I look closely it could be some sort of leaf miner. Or it could be a harbinger of some sort of leaf spot of fungal disease.

I don't like it. I could leave the branch alone and the plant would be fine. It's not expending much energy to keep it alive and it will wound the plant to remove it. But I'm in a pruning mood today and I don't like the look of the insect damage or the necrotic tissue and it is kind of a 'sucker branch'.

When I remove the branch I don't want the entire thing to die. I want to leave at least one node to keep it alive. Otherwise there's a good chance it will rot and the rot could continue into the stalk. I've learned this the hard way. Took a picture to show what it looks like.

20230720_073034.jpg


I cut the branch away from the node so that if it gets infected it'll take a while to rot it's way down to the node. Then it'll take a while to rot it's way down into the heart of the plant. This is a good reason not to remove branches at all if you live in a humid climate, because those lower limbs lead into the base of your plant. I've removed lower limbs like that and had mold eat it's way right into the heart of the stalk. Not going to make that mistake again. You want to give the plant as much chance to heal as it's possible. I did the same thing with the little dingle doingle branch at the bottom right.

Hopefully this explains my thinking a bit, pictures are clearer than words. Anyway, I have fun growing my plants and playing with them, I do whatever the fuck I want with them. I hope you do to!
 

Lrus007

Well-known member
Veteran
have a little wilting going on on a few branch's
been 2 weeks now. thanks rev for the ideas.
i been watering every other day. i skipped last
watering. looks same and ok today. so going to
hold out giving it water till it wilts. will see.
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
Gave them a full fertilization this morning with AgroThrive, high N bat guano, langbeinite, and crab meal. I do my biggest feedings from mid to late July. I usually water every day and water every 3 or 4 days, twice a week. The rest of the time it's usually once a week. Already seeing results.

I'm very happy with my Strange Brew. She has a great tall upright structure, reaching for the sky. Already 8 or 9 feet tall, she'll make 12 at least.

20230720_200508.jpg


I swear she grew 6 inches today. The weather is perfect, 78-85 degrees without a cloud in the sky. She's shaded until about 11 AM, kind of late, then gets full sun until about 5. I prefer afternoon sun over morning sun for ganja, especially where I'm at where there's often morning cloud cover that burns off during the day.

Here's a look at my G13HP X purple volunteer. She's a weird one, sexed late and is showing weird ball-like preflowers, some with pistils coming out of them. It's unlikely she's a hermaphrodite but I'll be watching closely. She's a classical big hashplant type.

20230720_200533.jpg


Can't wait to see how she turns out, going to be some wonderful flowers.

I have a Maui X (Sweet skunk x ECSD) from @misterD . Has a wonderful sweet tropical fruit smell with underlying funky fuel depth. He's excited about the Maui, says it's wonderful smoke so I have high hopes. She was getting tall and kind of lanky, seemed like a good candidate for tying over and there's a few bushy wide plants behind her. She's responded very well to the tying, it's probably going to boost yield quite a bit. The branches have already nearly caught up to the top.

20230720_200556.jpg

And a picture from the side so you can see how well developed the branches are. The picture from the front is deceptive, makes them look shorter because the top is further away from the camera.

20230720_200629.jpg


This is why I prefer tying to topping most of the time. I'll end up with 2 or 3 dozen nice tops compared to how it would yield if I'd let it grow straight up.

I really like the looks of my God Bud although it's not a big plant. I figured it might not get big so I stuck it in the front row. Doesn't matter to me if it's wonderful smoke.

20230720_200709.jpg


I love the purple color. I have a feeling she'll be an early finisher. Still lots of time for her to stretch and develop more branches.

Definitely still more to trim that had started early buding but 75% the way there. Hoping she reacts an grows a 12-15

That's looking a lot better, much more defined branching. You still have work to do but you're headed in the right direction. You didn't over do it either, I was worried you'd strip it halfway up. Looks like you took about 3 or 4 nodes up which is probably just right. Still a couple dingle shoots at the bottom you could pull but it's almost there.

I wouldn't take them right at the stalk for the reasons I explained in my last post. Not a big deal in a dry climate but in my humid one I'd be worried about botrytis rot. I know people that dress the wounds with tar or the stuff they use on fruit trees, I've never tried it so I can't vouch for it.
 

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