Macs Doors Ohz X
X’s
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Original Haze hybrids and psychohaze phenotypes
- Thread starter MAHA KALA
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well I have such impression that haze growers got used to the fact that they have to grow a lot of plants with these inbred haze hybrids of the past to find outstanding individual and a lot of them gave up on haze totally for same reason. at original haze it is clear, and it is more for breeding purpose to look there for special plants which can occur among a lot of only average, like we usually say "nice", plants... but why the hell to grow inbred haze hybrid I don't know?
let change this situation with fresh F1 haze hybrids right in this thread! when nobody do it for you, you have to do it yourself!
let change this situation with fresh F1 haze hybrids right in this thread! when nobody do it for you, you have to do it yourself!
maybe the inbred hybrid can take the place of the nl an make stronger hybrid when bred back to pure haze lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gru4IfbKlfU
you the man starcrash ,,,another fine stable
I respect your opinion. in case of inbred haze hybrid crossed to something not so related, yes, I experienced it with laos x mango haze. but when you cross NLhaze with Ohz it is inbreeding, dont see how it can make hybrid when it is related, in fact it makes hybrid more hazy, but dont see any new hybrid in it.... I prefer to grow first generations seeds for reasons I said over inbred line... I know that Donald made c5 mango hybrids, and it is inbreeding, I know its good work, and it is quite vigorous, but I still think that laos x mango haze is better than c5mango in this. talk about monumental effect, I have never got from mango haze... and every other plant is keeper, again not case of mango haze...
so I respect your opinion, but I disagree, and I think it is driven by nostalgia of lost NLhaze magic. I say let past to be past.
I could cross bandaid haze, or if I want I can ask Sammy for A5 and cross it Mr. Shine, I will not certainly do that, when I have F1s, it would be step back for me.
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thanks as i respect yours ,,its not a thought out plan in this case as i mentioned it was simply a case of mixing those two phenos in a joint an thinking that a bit more like it ,,i would be interested in crossing those two phenos for fun i have no interest in a breeding project etc unexpectedly a friend gave me some northen lights to smoke this week i have not smoked it for 20 years so to have nl nl/haze hybrid an pure haze to compare helped no end ,,i would not cal nl5 x haze hybrid bred back to haze inbreeding more linebreeding the effects of hybrid vigour can express in or out of a line or family in the same way inbreeding linebreeding can be done within or out of a family its all just different levels of refinement ,,i agree with you on the true f1 they gonna be the most interesting and potentially most powerful got a couple of my first haze f1 in flo now for outdoor purposes very interested to see what expresses ,,keep doing what you doing it all looks/ sounds great
ps yes you probably right nostalgia combined with bloody minded stubborness ha ha ,,,,,,,at the end of the day a true f1 outcross is creating somthing new ,,inbreding linebreding use as a tool is perserving improving whats already in existance
hehehe yes, thanks for support harveststreaper I appreciate it.
it is not that ohz would not be vigorous or that cross with NLhaze would make it less vigorous. I just think that if I would cross A5 with Mr. Shine, It would increase those "nice" phenos, and decrease frequent occur of exceptional ones... I don't say I would not find keeper there. I can make room and time for working with original haze or its backcross(which is kind of inbreeding, particularly) and then grow keepers for smoke - it is the best. from time to time. I made mextasy x mr. shine, kind of toms haze backcross... but normally in greenhouse when growing from seeds I need F1s...
when I grew NLhazes cuts last year, it was not resistant or strong healthy growing as laos x mango haze for example. no way. one of that cut was from original nevilles haze seed release... not that it would be bad smoke
hehe no. but plants were not strong enough for me in growing aspects.
so like you said NLhaze is now inbred in seed form. and original haze is also inbred hybrid... but I see that in case, let say, of mango haze, cant talk for NLhaze you grow, it lacks a lot compared to original haze, according to using it as breeding tool.
it is not that ohz would not be vigorous or that cross with NLhaze would make it less vigorous. I just think that if I would cross A5 with Mr. Shine, It would increase those "nice" phenos, and decrease frequent occur of exceptional ones... I don't say I would not find keeper there. I can make room and time for working with original haze or its backcross(which is kind of inbreeding, particularly) and then grow keepers for smoke - it is the best. from time to time. I made mextasy x mr. shine, kind of toms haze backcross... but normally in greenhouse when growing from seeds I need F1s...
when I grew NLhazes cuts last year, it was not resistant or strong healthy growing as laos x mango haze for example. no way. one of that cut was from original nevilles haze seed release... not that it would be bad smoke
hehe no. but plants were not strong enough for me in growing aspects.so like you said NLhaze is now inbred in seed form. and original haze is also inbred hybrid... but I see that in case, let say, of mango haze, cant talk for NLhaze you grow, it lacks a lot compared to original haze, according to using it as breeding tool.
...CR500AF...
Active member
Some fun ahead for ya sub...
I am looking forward to tropical boogie, you dont see many grows of "hawaiian haze", I smoked several times hawaiian haze from abraxas and hawaiian snow too. hawaiian snow seemed to me more trippy... but overall very nice kind of haze. I can see that sagarmatha has some too, but you never see these at icmag... I saw some hawaiiana which is cross of mango haze and some hawaiian, but it looked very indica.
Nevil said:
good description of that old one:
romanoweed
Well-known member
try the Tropical Boogie first
yeah I am still looking for hawaiians from 80s, there is some magic around them. all of them contain some indica. and are kind of stony. but not couchlock like aghan or narcotic like some thais or africans. these hawaiians are on its own. I was thinking about molokai frost, but it is too long flowering for my purposes. I want to find quicker phenotype of haze hybrid, so crossing pure haze male to some 16weeker doesn't give me sense... but otherwise molokai x haze could be great. this "hawaiian" I have is more quicker like 11weeks max, can be chopped at 10weeks easily. so tropical boogie could put out some 12weekers, we will see, definitely it is the longest flowering one from all these mr. shine crosses. 12 - 14 weeks. yield will be huge... I hope you will find pheno with fruity herbal schnapps smell...
Happy Times
Well-known member
nice resin. there are individuals which are really loud in its spiciness, like sour pickled chilies spiciness.. other phenos are more shy. it depends on selection and numbers...
I hope that Mr. Shine, which reeks of green curry and sour! pickled chilies spiciness will translate it into its progeny, at least at some crosses I did. he has crazy sticky stem and makes big balls, and structure says to me that progeny will be very high yielding. he was only one like that from 21 males. others were fruity or metallic. cant wait to test it, I already popped grape turpentine cut of bshw x Mr. Shine. I call him Mr. Shine as first time I saw him at friends growroom, it shines among those other males. lush green shining like some aura. I think he is thai dominant, now only to prove it, which is happening right now. if some haze grower is interesting to test with us and have fun together, pm me.
pic is the male in 5 liter pot, flowered from cut. it is really big, I love it branching.
that’s a great looking male Maha! Grandfunk genetics?
no it is male from 2nd gen moved from Tom Hill Haze original seeds I bought at 2009. it is from my mango line, but it is different to sour mango males I used last time.
but when you mentioned Grandfunk, here is one is flowering from cut. looks much less wild and more compact.
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I read something about restoring vigor at original haze lines. dont know but I didnt notice it would not be vigorous or something... actually it is very vigorous compared to some other inbred lines... but even if you cross two separately selected lines of original haze, it will not bring hybrid vigor. hybrid vigor is something different.
so how I recognized that original haze lacks hybrid vigor, not in veg and not in early flowering, but it starts around 84 days of flowering, depends on phenotype, but at longer flowering ones it starts around 84 days, and you see that its vigor decreases in budding, compared to plants with hybrid vigor and thats why you end with lesser flowers, smaller flowers than at plants with hybrid vigor. there is no way how inbred line could get hybrid vigor back without outcrossing it with unrelated line...
so how I recognized that original haze lacks hybrid vigor, not in veg and not in early flowering, but it starts around 84 days of flowering, depends on phenotype, but at longer flowering ones it starts around 84 days, and you see that its vigor decreases in budding, compared to plants with hybrid vigor and thats why you end with lesser flowers, smaller flowers than at plants with hybrid vigor. there is no way how inbred line could get hybrid vigor back without outcrossing it with unrelated line...
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i disagree i believe inbred close genepools can be inbred linebred and outcrossed WITHIN the line same way you would using an outcross or unrelated dna lets say you have seeds from same parents the genetic still does its mixing so the most outcross individual will usually be larger more vigorous ,,the purer ,more inbred slower to grow and mature less vigour etc if you pair the more inbred appearing phenos in a small genepool youll soon fix that trait but the reverse is also possible imo by selecting the more vigourous but continuing singularly on that path could also lead to dilution of desirable traits in an ideal world both inbred linebred and outcross selections within the line would be applied to maintain it without ading new dna ..from what i read seems like mac been doing a bit of this unless im mistaken,, wouldnt be first time lol in nature genepools are often isolated you either keep vigour or die above everything else,,,,, flower quality would be way down on the list of priorities in such a scenario. personally i always like a strong lifeforce in a breeding plant
romanoweed
Well-known member
VIGOR
lets make hypothesis.
if you inbreed, you loose vigor. Landraces can be vigorous, thats caused by big numbers of kept plants.
next hyphotesis:
if you take an inbreed line, it necessarly is selected thowards a direction, cause choices been made. its changed..
so, if you combine this inbreed (lets say its Generation 8) with its Gen8 brothers and Gen8 sisters , you obviously dont get igor back. Logically..
but if you combine this inbreed Line, with an ibreed that was selected thowards a different direction from the start, then your one step closer to getting the vigor back. Cause vigor gets lost if too less individuals are used.
And by selecting thowards direction A, and B , you building even the Basis, to later be recombined and get some vigor back . (Obviously with just two directions selection thats absolutely minimal. but still a certain difference i guess)
lets make hypothesis.
if you inbreed, you loose vigor. Landraces can be vigorous, thats caused by big numbers of kept plants.
next hyphotesis:
if you take an inbreed line, it necessarly is selected thowards a direction, cause choices been made. its changed..
so, if you combine this inbreed (lets say its Generation 8) with its Gen8 brothers and Gen8 sisters , you obviously dont get igor back. Logically..
but if you combine this inbreed Line, with an ibreed that was selected thowards a different direction from the start, then your one step closer to getting the vigor back. Cause vigor gets lost if too less individuals are used.
And by selecting thowards direction A, and B , you building even the Basis, to later be recombined and get some vigor back . (Obviously with just two directions selection thats absolutely minimal. but still a certain difference i guess)
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