Original Haze hybrids and psychohaze phenotypes

[romanoweed]

so that means: if your set to anyway inbreed the hack out of your Groundmaterial, it still makes a difference if you select thowards different directions.. That way you can still homogenize your breed, but with less inbreeding depro. You just need to agree on more than just "the one" pheno..

IMHO

 

[harvestreaper]

well put thats pretty much it romanoweed

 

[harvestreaper]

so that means: if your set to anyway inbreed the hack out of your Groundmaterial, it still makes a difference if you select thowards different directions.. That way you can still homogenize your breed, but with less inbreeding depro. You just need to agree on more than just "the one" pheno..

IMHO

yes its about taking control of the direction of the genes nature just dont ship in new dna when she in a fix ,,its march or die ,, genetic priorities will change due to circumstance/enviroment,,if we break it down its simply refinement after all breeding is refinement to enviroment the rules that we all already know can still be applied in the same way its just far more refined if kept within one small genepool but millions could come from it over time

 

[MAHA KALA]

i disagree i believe inbred close genepools can be inbred linebred and outcrossed WITHIN the line same way you would using an outcross or unrelated dna lets say you have seeds from same parents the genetic still does its mixing so the most outcross individual will usually be larger more vigorous ,,the purer ,more inbred slower to grow and mature less vigour etc if you pair the more inbred appearing phenos in a small genepool youll soon fix that trait but the reverse is also possible imo by selecting the more vigourous but continuing singularly on that path could also lead to dilution of desirable traits in an ideal world both inbred linebred and outcross selections within the line would be applied to maintain it without ading new dna ..from what i read seems like mac been doing a bit of this unless im mistaken,, wouldnt be first time lol in nature genepools are often isolated you either keep vigour or die above everything else,,,,, flower quality would be way down on the list of priorities in such a scenario. personally i always like a strong lifeforce in a breeding plant

you dont undertand me, I said you cant get hybrid vigor of F1 back by inbreeding. on the other hand I dont understand why anybody would say that original haze, without mixing lines, is not vigorous. but hybrid vigor of first generation is something different. you will never restore it by inbreeding.

mixed line or not, it doesn't give much sense to grow original haze indoors for most of us, as you cant simulate tropical climate. indoor adaptability is low. especially for long flowering phenotypes. pure sativa F1 hybrid will do better.

if somebody will inbred original haze that way, it will be more vigorous than let say original haze x zamal, then I will admit my mistake. havent seen anything like that.

 

[romanoweed]

yes its about taking control of the direction of the genes nature just dont ship in new dna when she in a fix ,,its march or die ,, genetic priorities will change due to circumstance/enviroment,,if we break it down its simply refinement after all breeding is refinement to enviroment the rules that we all already know can still be applied in the same way its just far more refined if kept within one small genepool but millions could come from it over time

The most refined that ever existed was probably a clone. people use alot power to achieve something that a clone would have done best IMHO. and they could concentrate a tiny bit more on preservation. Its shitty as it still is bit ilegal. if you havent alot of careful friend-growers that can pet your favorite clone... but it would probably be the most powerfull freshest that you ever can get. a clone, made by the onliving preservation-effort of the community (fresh stock so to speak).

That is refined, a "one of a thousand phenos" Clone. coming from a vigorous seedstock

IMHO IMHO, im not expert, but i try my best

 

[romanoweed]

Cool Idea
There should exist a Buissnes, who allows you to send in your clones.. and they carry it for you

And so you dont have to trust only in them, they would sell your clones, and inform the buyers that it is a preservation-project..

So, once you own a precious clone , you can write this company an email , and if they agree the clone passes a certain criteria/has a certain excellence, then they allow it, and offer each clone for fixed price, say 50d.

The sold clones would more likely stay around in community, so you can re-aquire it incase you lost it, or even entirely rebuy it each year.. so you can make carefree holiday

Of course you would keep a seed-preservation-batch too, but the stabilisation job would be bypassed that way.

 

[harvestreaper]

you dont undertand me, I said you cant get hybrid vigor of F1 back by inbreeding. on the other hand I dont understand why anybody would say that original haze, without mixing lines, is not vigorous. but hybrid vigor of first generation is something different. you will never restore it by inbreeding.

mixed line or not, it doesn't give much sense to grow original haze indoors for most of us, as you cant simulate tropical climate. indoor adaptability is low. especially for long flowering phenotypes. pure sativa F1 hybrid will do better.

if somebody will inbred original haze that way, it will be more vigorous than let say original haze x zamal, then I will admit my mistake. havent seen anything like that.

apologies my bad

 

[harvestreaper]

There should exist a Buissnes, who allows you to send in your clones.. and they carry it for you

And so you dont have to trust only in them, they would sell your clones, and inform people who buy that it is a preservation-project..

So, once you own a precious clone , you can write them an email , and if they agree the clone passes a certain criteria/has a certain excellence, then they allow it, and sell each clone for fixed price, say 50d.

The sold clones would more likely stay around in community, so you can re-aquire it incase you lost it, or even entirely rebuy it each year.. so you can make carefree holiday

funny you mention that i was thinking about a stud book for good haze <or any other> males yesterday much the same as in dog breeding were we could see the impact of prepotent males throughout the strain people would be able to use a proven good producer etc

 

[romanoweed]

I dont wanna downplay peoples tastes. If people like the inbreed novelities, like adapted to this and that. Or hybrid selected for taste of this, but effect of that side. Then they shall do it.

But the most amazing i got was always landrace. and i have reasons to beleve wich exact Vietnames strain it was. And this particular Viet Line was also sold as first generation seeds, limited.
so, the entire development was just that these were 1st generation seeds from a hippie collector.. (im not shure if the hippie actually did one open poll., so maybe 2nd gen, it was written that the hippie froze them for centuries, so really low generation)

said that, i gathered further Info that the vendor who sold these viet actually kept a clone over a century of it. It could be that i actually smoked his clone, since this vendor was highly kind. (i mean he sold assumably 1st gen 70s vietnamese)..
In either case, i beleve i smoked killer pheno of simply: Landrace, and it was simply amazing. I told it alot, you know it, it was godlike.

so, landrace, and the tactic of just taking a clone, cause i assume vigor was a part of the equation that made me reach god-level-trip, is like a very opposite tactic, approach.
i can imagine such extreme effects cant be reached by anything else than landrace, and its big population.

so, i sometimes like to inform even inbreeders, about raw power, wich can be lost. probably raw-power is lost as a rule, as soon as you steer away from what makes
up a landrace.

-----

why am i saying that:, i think all those "new creations" , steered selected breeds can not be of raw power if theyre bottlenecked. You can make sweet , beautiful, cool, cute breeds by heavy selection, but things like raw-power, robustbness, healthyness , those kindof things can not persist in a strongly selected breed, i believe. IMHO IMHO. I say that cause my intense experience.. I feel that was part of it when im thinking back, it just comes to my mind...

so, if you want psychtrip weed, i think its good to look into my vigor topics. IMHO

 

[RingtailCanyon]

Do you know what you mean when you say century?

 

[MAHA KALA]

this is mextasy(toms haze x oaxacan79 bx)

and this is pheno of surreal(mextasy x mazar/mexican), where mazariation of mexican haze happened the smell is oaxacan one though. sweet lemons with sandalwood and livery tones.

I simply tried it, it is great happy warm and giggly weed. I am growing new version of it, mazar/mexican x mr. shine, and hope more psychedelics, hope for hazification, not mazariation

 

[MAHA KALA]

apologies my bad

I probably said it wrongly first. I am fan of mixing different Ohz lines. some unusual phenotypes can pop... I am not such fan of trying of some "improvement" through inbreeding, I think we should try to keep the most diverse and wild we can... dont see how it could be improved otherwise than improvement in regard of indoor adaptability... which can be good or bad thing, it depends...

I assume indoor environment as harsh and hostile for Ohz genetics

I grew last year cut of long flowering toms haze, next to nevilles haze cut of first gen seeeds, cuts had same size before flowering. no root limitation and lightning was sun, it was light dep, so light regime was 11/13 from the beginning. toms haze was two times bigger, octopuses plant, while NH was more stocky, but NH made bigger buds anyway... toms haze yielded more, because of size of plant, not size of buds. but I listen to old timers who claim that first buds of haze were big(some of them claim there was no term as haze for it, but it doesn't really matter, names are names.) and buds got floppy from its weight, I don't think they were hard like afghanhaze, but sure it was high yielding variety with big buds, through inbreeding process it is not so big, it is natural...

now if I would grow that NH cut vs. toms haze cut indoors, in smaller pots. NH would outperform toms haze totally. not only in size of buds, but also in yield. hope I succeed in expressing of role of different environments and how tropical inbred haze and NLhaze hybrid reacts to it..

environment is big factor.

for example RandyCalifornia ran bandaid haze for 17 weeks indoors, while I chopped it fully matured at 13 weeks, or unnamedmike is flowering his cut of SSH for 4 months indoors... I dont think they are idiots. environment can play the tricks with us. LimeyGreen took surreal to 13 weeks indoors, which I dont understand as in light dep. surreal s are 7/8 weekers for me... that's environment baby.

 

[harvestreaper]

I probably said it wrongly first. I am fan of mixing different Ohz lines. some unusual phenotypes can pop... I am not such fan of trying of some "improvement" through inbreeding, I think we should try to keep the most diverse and wild we can... dont see how it could be improved otherwise than improvement in regard of indoor adaptability... which can be good or bad thing, it depends...

I assume indoor environment as harsh and hostile for Ohz genetics

I grew last year cut of long flowering toms haze, next to nevilles haze cut of first gen seeeds, cuts had same size before flowering. no root limitation and lightning was sun, it was light dep, so light regime was 11/13 from the beginning. toms haze was two times bigger, octopuses plant, while NH was more stocky, but NH made bigger buds anyway... toms haze yielded more, because of size of plant, not size of buds. but I listen to old timers who claim that first buds of haze were big(some of them claim there was no term as haze for it, but it doesn't really matter, names are names.) and buds got floppy from its weight, I don't think they were hard like afghanhaze, but sure it was high yielding variety with big buds, through inbreeding process it is not so big, it is natural...

now if I would grow that NH cut vs. toms haze cut indoors, in smaller pots. NH would outperform toms haze totally. not only in size of buds, but also in yield. hope I succeed in expressing of role of different environments and how tropical inbred haze and NLhaze hybrid reacts to it..

environment is big factor.

for example RandyCalifornia ran bandaid haze for 17 weeks indoors, while I chopped it fully matured at 13 weeks, or unnamedmike is flowering his cut of SSH for 4 months indoors... I dont think they are idiots. environment can play the tricks with us. LimeyGreen took surreal to 13 weeks indoors, which I dont understand as in light dep. surreal s are 7/8 weekers for me... that's environment baby.

despite what i was saying about inbreeding as a tool ,,at this point regarding haze i agree with you ,, crossing up the remaining lines gives much needed diversity ,at the same time trying to preserve improve each line in its purity would have value to ,,,for me its all good ..,yes outdoor is the best for sure not seen any set up replicate mother nature i gave a cut of todds haze 3 to a friend this year an with light dep she moving faster and showing a bigger possible yield already ,,this dont surprise me as ive grown a few sativas outside over the years and i make you right ,love that what you call octopuss lots of strong lateral branching type plants have always been good in hazes for me ,when you talking of the differences others found is that the same cut or same seedline ?as obviously many phenos possible ..,next season im gonna give a friend my best haze hybrid yeilders and some todds haze phenos to test light dep ,im unable to do it were i live but if i had the choice i would grow all my sativas under sunlight using light dep as i prefer sungrown weed everytime ,,,i think the power of the season has a big impact to so when you grow outside it aint just the sunlight its the atmospheric pressure moisture magnetism so many factors all coming to a head as the season reaches its peak hell i even think ive noticed it indoors as the best yeilding crops always seemed to coincide with harvest season sure it sounds nuts but i believe even indoors these factors can apply even tho much diluted by a controlled enviroment ,lol ,,just finishing a dorian cut now takes 16 week under 12/12, welll see what she does outdoor next season with an early start

 

[MAHA KALA]

despite what i was saying about inbreeding as a tool ,,at this point regarding haze i agree with you ,, crossing up the remaining lines gives much needed diversity ,at the same time trying to preserve improve each line in its purity would have value to ,,,for me its all good ..,yes outdoor is the best for sure not seen any set up replicate mother nature i gave a cut of todds haze 3 to a friend this year an with light dep she moving faster and showing a bigger possible yield already ,,this dont surprise me as ive grown a few sativas outside over the years and i make you right ,love that what you call octopuss lots of strong lateral branching type plants have always been good in hazes for me ,when you talking of the differences others found is that the same cut or same seedline ?as obviously many phenos possible ..,next season im gonna give a friend my best haze hybrid yeilders and some todds haze phenos to test light dep ,im unable to do it were i live but if i had the choice i would grow all my sativas under sunlight using light dep as i prefer sungrown weed everytime ,,,i think the power of the season has a big impact to so when you grow outside it aint just the sunlight its the atmospheric pressure moisture magnetism so many factors all coming to a head as the season reaches its peak hell i even think ive noticed it indoors as the best yeilding crops always seemed to coincide with harvest season sure it sounds nuts but i believe even indoors these factors can apply even tho much diluted by a controlled enviroment ,lol ,,just finishing a dorian cut now takes 16 week under 12/12, welll see what she does outdoor next season with an early start

yes, bandaid haze is same cut. I didnt grow SSH from mike and I know that there are longer flowering ones. but anyway 120 days is too much for hybrid imo. I mean where is the point to cross it with NLskunk when you dont get flowering down? it must be something with environment. and surreals are for me uniform and 8 weekers maximally...

grandfunk started bulking now, at 42 days. it is that quicker pheno. it leaves incense smell in the room after smoking, if you are into it besides livery incense, it is honey herbal and citric with menthol musk. maybe green mangos too, hard to tell..

 

[Mtn. Nectar]

like correlation to dog breeding or horses, cattle etc.......just harder to maintain pool to research/draw from in ganja ......multiple factors contribute to such, unfortunately legality has limited .....

ganj on......

 

[harvestreaper]

yes, bandaid haze is same cut. I didnt grow SSH from mike and I know that there are longer flowering ones. but anyway 120 days is too much for hybrid imo. I mean where is the point to cross it with NLskunk when you dont get flowering down? it must be something with environment. and surreals are for me uniform and 8 weekers maximally...

grandfunk started bulking now, at 42 days. it is that quicker pheno. it leaves incense smell in the room after smoking, if you are into it besides livery incense, it is honey herbal and citric with menthol musk. maybe green mangos too, hard to tell..

i hear you a hybrid going 16 weeks is not the purpose of the cross but for me its all about how it blends in the individual hybrid i dont mind dorian taking 16 weeks she has interesting effects an delivers 5 x plus a pure sativa in yeild indoor also has great hybrid vigour i will probably bred her to a haze to hopefully create a good production and effect hybrid,,,but ,i agree in all cases its just about time reduction when the crosses are made i just made a cross with todds to some uk outdoor tested /bred stuff i only selected females and a male with the speed of the outdoor as this is the goal in that case and a long flowering nice effect or yeild will not cut it in that application etc those mextasy and granfunk look an sound fantastic

 

[harvestreaper]

like correlation to dog breeding or horses, cattle etc.......just harder to maintain pool to research/draw from in ganja ......multiple factors contribute to such, unfortunately legality has limited .....

ganj on......

genes is genes most of my experiance of fooling with genes comes from dog breeding and i cant see a good reason why more breeders have not sold pollen off there top males in the same way other genetics are dealt ,,,,unless of course they already do an im just ignorant lol

 

[...CR500AF...]

genes is genes most of my experiance of fooling with genes comes from dog breeding and i cant see a good reason why more breeders have not sold pollen off there top males in the same way other genetics are dealt ,,,,unless of course they already do an im just ignorant lol

Same here for the sale of pollen that would be so cool to do, i wonder if it is how long it stays healthy TEMPS i think would be the big one, i have no idea but it would be perfect for myself...

 

[bsgospel]

That's my guess. Harder to guarantee (both results and viability) jd short did something like it a year or two ago. Haven't seen it since

 

[harvestreaper]

Same here for the sale of pollen that would be so cool to do, i wonder if it is how long it stays healthy TEMPS i think would be the big one, i have no idea but it would be perfect for myself...

many ways it could be applied you could use the frozen sperm model were you make sure its stored shipped correctly etc ,,,or simply regularly flower clones of male to produce fresh pollen to sell on etc as to the nature of money it might only work on a club level as the temptation to exploit may prove to great for some lol