Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[toodles]

blackfoot:

Thanks for the compliment!!

You make a good point regarding indicas. I haven't grown any indica dominant plants in over a year....and none in soil mixes like this current one I'm using.

So I don't know what something like an Afghani, Hindu Kush, or Black Domina would do in it. I think they would do fine though.

As you said, I think most would agree that sativas don't need nearly the Nitrogen that many indicas seem to need. I'm pretty new at this too and it's taken me a couple grows to see just how efficient these SSH and SSH x SSH plants are.

That said, I think all I would change(if anything) from the recipe in my thread is use more of the Nitrogen sources. I didn't go real heavy on Nitrogen in this current mix....IMO anyway. I'd use it as is and simply use a guano tea and/or top dressing if the plants looked Nitrogen deprived. Nitrogen is pretty easy to give after the fact.

Toodles


PS

Yes on the hybrid I'm growing. You get more variation in SSH x SSH than in the SSH f1 plants. That's to be expected. All of them(f2s) have been very potent, good plants so far. I do like it though when I get these tall, lanky, VIGOROUS, hazey looking plants. I love the skinny leaves.

 

[B.C.]

The only thing this plant has had during the entire grow is water with Liquid Karma and molasses( not every watering tho on molasses).



I'm also showing that if you make a good soil, plants will thrive in it without all these "amendments", "supplements", and all the other stuff people constantly worry you about putting on their plants. I hope they will see they don't need those things.





I use a variety of sources for my NPK, etc. sources.

Toodles I checked out yer thread, lots of good info there! I saw that you had some burning issuses you couldn't identify, and was wondering why they were finishing so fast. It's the Liquid Karma. The "supplement" LK is a stimulant with growth hormones in it among other many things. Notice that the plant is only burning and effected at the tops. This is where the extra auxins and other growth hormones are gonna be goin, to the tops. Auxins always go to the tops, this is why LST works so well, when ya bend the maristem it sends those auxins ( and other hormones ) to the rest of the tops so they all grow evenly. This strain jus can't take that much -extra- all the time tho.... LK is a lot like the way crank or speed affects people, only in plants. It stimulates the plant into processing -everything- faster, whatever phase the plant might be in. So if yer useing it during the stretch in flower, they'll stretch more. If yer useing it in the latter half of flowering it's gonna make it mature that much quicker. I used LK fera while, till I saw what was happening in these various stages on strains I've grown many times before..... I'm kinda confused by what ya said about "amendments"? You say ya don't need em, and then you say you get yer NPK etc from various sources? Are these not amendments as well? The picture with all those boxes, bags, and bottles ( I don't remember what all was there? ) sittin on yer kitchen counter top, aren't those amendments too?.... You do realize bone and blood meal, kelp, guano etc that are in LC's mixes are amendments too right? Did I miss somthin in yer post? or what? Anyhoo, keep up the good work! Good luck killin an elk! Recurve bow, wow you -are- ol skool! lol Take care... BC

 

[toodles]

When I said no amendments, I meant nothing added AFTER initial making of the soil mix. You can't make a soil with no amendments....not if you are living in a small apartment like me. I can't have compost bins and worm farms in here!!

My point being that once you make a good soil, it needs very little afterwards. I just water them and watch them grow with no muss no fuss. That's the plan anyway.

I hear you about LK. However, I burned that clone with PBPro...at least IMO. I don't think it was LK. The three seed plants haven't got any PBPro, and won't. They haven't show any signs of burning anywhere. They've gotten LK every watering so far. If I see them getting leaf tip burn, I'll stop LK and see what happens.

I may stop LK anyway when my worm casting tea gets here.

The upper growth on the plants is "bent under" slightly because the sidewalls of the grow tent suck in and push against them. They'll have more room after the clone is gone this weekend.

Thanks for the advice! The pictures of the "boxes" is in Post #2

Yeah, I'd love to kill an elk with my bow. They're tough to get up on though, and I ain't getting any younger. I have a buddy who said he'd call one in for me if we can ever get together. I love being out in the woods no matter what.

Toodles

 

[Mr Celsius]

Hmmm.... PBP burning plants....

 

[B.C.]

Hey now!

Hey now!

You!^^^ You!^^^ you bahave you! LOL! j/k.... BC

 

[Blazned]

hey burn one, thanks for the advice, i followed the recipe for i think mix 1. i love it.

 

[toodles]

Mr C and BC

You guys are just fine. Not to worry. I've gotten over my tantrum. And you are welcome to post over on my thread as well.

I've arranged the thread so I can keep all my grow pictures in sequence without anyone elses posts in between. It's a work in progress. I have a LOT of cutting and pasting to do to get things in the right sequence, etc.

Doing it this way allows us all to post, rant, whatever and it won't interfer with the "nut" of my thread...which I cleverly reserved for myself.

As for the PBPro. I was frankly surprised that one dose of it would have that much effect on that clone of mine.

And I am watching my three new SSH x SSH seed plants closely. I'm going to take BC's advice and withold the LK for now. They'll get just water and occasional water/molasses.....until...

I get my wormcasting tea I ordered last Tuesday. I should have it Monday. Then I'll water with the wormcasting tea and molasses...until I see if they need anything else. They may well not need anything. The soil is pretty good IMO.

I have also gone back and edited/rearranged some of the early pics of the grow so they make sense...maybe LOL on page 1 of my diary. I think I did pretty good in my "limited selection". The three plants that turned out girls are real winners IMO.

Toodles

 

[Sam Slambam]

Top of the evening to you all!

At the moment I am torn between heading down the E&F route or going down the LC Mix route. As of yet I have tried neither.

A question if I may;

Before I invest the money in the purchasing of the necessary ingredients to properly make the LC mix I would like to finish up one more grow with what I have on hand, which is to say some Coco, a huge bag of perlite, and a bag and a half of FFOF. I also have the full range of Biobizz nutes, heaven, grow, bloom, topmax. I also have some H&G Roots Excelurator which I am led to believe is Organic. I have a buddy of mine who has some dolemite lime he could give me too.

I am still in the very early stages of learning so forgive me if this seems to be a vague or ridiculous question.


Could I use the FFOF as a premade LC mix of sorts if I mixed it with the Coco? It has EWC's and Guanos in it already but I believe it's lacking in the Cal/Mag department, would the Lime help with this?

Would I need to also let this mix "cook" so to speak?

 

[toodles]

Sam:

You could substitute FFOF for the Sunshine/ProMix in LC#2. Then amend it with one of the recipes in the StickNote, or some other appropriate amendment mix.

Bonemeal takes a week or two to break down. Personally, I think any mix benefits from sitting a couple weeks. Stir it up every day or so and keep it moist.

I would add wormcastings for sure to the FFOF. 3:1 ratio of OF:wormcastings. Then add more perlite to get it to drain like you prefer.

I know my friend BC doesn't recommend adding lime to FFOF, but I believe you should. 2Tbls/gallon. Remember that after adding castings and perlite, it isn't the same as straight up FFOF anymore. The mix will benefit from the added dolomite.

Toodles

 

[Sam Slambam]

@Toodles...


Hey bro, muchas gracias! I actually saw EWC's for sale at the local Whole Foods the other day, I'll be sure to pick some up. My concern is finding Bone/ or Blood meal at this time of year. Would you say it's neccesary? Could I get by with a Mix of:

FFOF, EWC's, Perlite, Coco, 2tbls Lime perG and I also have some some FF Peace of MInd Fruit and Flower.

If I went with a mix like the one stated above, any suggestions as far as feedings go?
As in to say; shouldn't there be plenty in the mix to carry the plants for a good bit without any additional nutes? Or would I need to supplement with the BioBizz nutes at some point?

I'll be growing Bogglegum from Clone under a single 600.


All this is so I can avoid any unnecessary trips to the hydro shop while I figure out what direction I want to go as far as grow style. Im def leaning towards going organic soiless route over E&F.

 

[toodles]

Yeah I think you'll be OK without the blood and bone meal. We'll see what others say though.

I've not used FF POM fruit and flower. I would think it would work fine. Someone who has used it before would be better able to tell you for sure though.

As for feeding schedules...I never much believed in feeding schedules per se. Plants need what they need when they need it. I try to read the plants and give them what they need. If I were you, that's what I would try to do. They wouldn't need much of anything for a while. Water them with wormcasting tea as per the recipe page 1 of this thread. Then use POM when indicated.

We'll see what others recommend though OK?

Toodles


As for organic soil vs ebb and flow....it's no contest for me. Hydro grows require much more attention IMO. My failed hydro was a pain in the ass while I had it. I was always fucking with the rez. My water pH would not stabilize. I didn't want to go the RO route living in a small apartment, so I went the soil route. Glad I did. MUCH less hassle. I can leave for 2-3 days and not worry at all.

 

[toodles]

you don't need to give them any water with espon salt in it unless you see cal/mag deficiencies then you would know they need it, and If you don't see it any more they probably don't need it anymore. deficiencies look like this."Click here"

Unless Bogglegum needs an unusual amount of Magnesium, I seriously doubt he'll need to use epsom salts. The 2 Tbls/gallon of dolomite lime should provide plenty of both Ca and Mg for the entire grow. Keep in mind the FFOF does contain some lime as well....not enough IMO, but some.

Toodles

 

[Sam Slambam]

Blackfoot & Toodles, THANKS!


I like the sound of the EWC Tea, perhaps w/ a TBLS of Molasses? Would that be a "every watering" feed? Or just when needed?

Also, you say you dont use R/O, so can I assume you use tap? I've been using R/O for a while now and TBH, it's kind of a pain in the kiester. I'd love to make the switch to tap, but I live in a major metropolitan city with water of a doubtful and more than likely dubious nature. I know folks say to let it bubble for 24hrs first to get the chlorine and or chloramines out.


And yeah, I hear ya, I can see how E&F could rapidly turn into a major headache.

 

[toodles]

Blackfoot & Toodles, THANKS!


I like the sound of the EWC Tea, perhaps w/ a TBLS of Molasses? Would that be a "every watering" feed? Or just when needed?

The EWC tea is every time you water. Molasses I give every watering, but I only give about 1 teaspoon gallon

Also, you say you dont use R/O, so can I assume you use tap? I've been using R/O for a while now and TBH, it's kind of a pain in the kiester. I'd love to make the switch to tap, but I live in a major metropolitan city with water of a doubtful and more than likely dubious nature. I know folks say to let it bubble for 24hrs first to get the chlorine and or chloramines out.

Yeah if you have shitty city water like I used to have when I lived back east, you're better off with an RO. Good water quality is critical IMO. However, when using RO water you may have to add CalMag or similar to prevent Ca and Mg problems. I'd get/order some if you don't have it now. Just be careful using it. The lime may be enough, but I doubt it. Overdosing with CalMag can create all sorts of problems. As Blackfoot said, keep an eye out for Ca/Mg deficiencies. IF you do see a deficit, don't hit them hard with CalMag. Go easy with it.


And yeah, I hear ya, I can see how E&F could rapidly turn into a major headache.

Well mine was a pain. I left my grow last year for about a week. I made an "autowatering device" that watered my plants every 3 days. I had the plants such that excess drained away from them. I can't imagine leaving a hydro grow for a week.

Toodles

 

[maryj315]

Blackfoot & Toodles, THANKS!


I like the sound of the EWC Tea, perhaps w/ a TBLS of Molasses? Would that be a "every watering" feed? Or just when needed?

Also, you say you dont use R/O, so can I assume you use tap? I've been using R/O for a while now and TBH, it's kind of a pain in the kiester. I'd love to make the switch to tap, but I live in a major metropolitan city with water of a doubtful and more than likely dubious nature. I know folks say to let it bubble for 24hrs first to get the chlorine and or chloramines out.


And yeah, I hear ya, I can see how E&F could rapidly turn into a major headache.

Hey sam i think i can help you we have almost the same soil mix. what i did was make a batch of lcs#1 no nutes added just lime then took a equal amount of ocean forest added 2 tbls of fruit and flower lime as suggested and then mix the two. i have very hard water so i do a 50/50 mix of tap and ro and i ph at 6.5 after i add nutes sorry burn1 habit i cant stop. i do add a few more things but i am just improvising with what you have on hand. i was just using plain ocean forest with success but always having issues pics in my gallery are in this mix. the only thing i will change is adding more perlite and a gallon of ewc to the ocean forrest. i also use pbp.

 

[maryj315]

I want to give a big THANK YOU to Burn1,Toodles,MRC,and BC you guys are making this a everyday must read we are getting lots of good info please keep it going.

 

[Sam Slambam]

First off, thank you kindly for all of the extremely useful input everyone, Toodles, Blackfoot, MaryJ, money can not buy this kind of knowledge exchange and the awesomeness of that fact does not escape me. It illustrates the level of passion and commitment we have for our common goals, and I think we all know what those goals are!


Ok, so now on to the main course...


I was searching around and found a few more useful items in my arsenal...

I have a large container of Maxicrop, ( the flakes, not the liquid), I have a container of CalMag+,
I also picked up 6 bags of EWC's today! Woot woot!

So if anyone could be so kind to help me finalize this mix I sure would be greatly appreciative ....

To resummarize.....


I have on hand,

-1 bag of fine Coco, ( if making the LC#2 "style" mix, do I even need this?),.
-1 and a 1/2 bags of FFOF
-1 huge bag of Perlite
-FF Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower
-6 bags of EWC's
-1 Bottle of Unsulphered Blackstrap Mollasses.
- BioBizz Liquid Nutes, Heaven, Grow, Bloom, TopMax
-1 Container of CalMag + ( again, if using lime, do i really need this?)
- Garden Lime,
- 1 Container of Maxicrop ( Flakes ),.
- 1 Bottle of H&G Roots Excelurator
- Access to R/O Water.

Ok so a couple final questions,

@Toodles, since FFOF already has EWC's in it, do you think it's a safe bet to add still a 3 to 1 ratio of O.F. to EWC's and water with EWC tea on top of all that? This would be my first time using teas so I'm a bit hazy on the topic.

Secondly, PH. I am assuming I will still need to be PH adjusting my feedwater. I only have GH brand Up and Down on hand which I'm quite certain is anything BUT organic. Is that safe? I don't want to do anything to compromise the Microherd. Would the lime help form a PH buffer? And if so, even still, would I need to be adjusting the feed water.


Sorry for the long post and the bajilliondy questions, I just want to make sure my ducks are all in a row. I know this could all be solved by just scrapping what I've got and starting fresh with the actual proper LC mix, but I hate wasting things that are still perfectly usable, so until I've used up what I have on hand, I need to make due.

 

[toodles]

I have to go do domestic chores. SO a quickie answer

but...YES on adding wormcastings to the FFOF at ~3parts FFOF:1 part EWC.

as for the garden lime...if it's dolomite lime, I'd still add 2Tbls/gallon of the final mix volume...that's after adding perlite, EWC's etc. And YES, you are far better off having the lime(Ca and Mg) in the soil mix. That way you may never need the CalMag. The plants will use the Ca and Mg as the plant needs it. The lime also acts as a source of cations for the humus/humic acid to help with pH.

My feeling about lime is that it is always better to have all the things in the soil....in the right proportions of course. That way the plant has them available when the plant needs them. If you don't add lime initially, then you'll be playing "catch up". You'll be treating Ca and/or Mg problems after the fact. IMO...that is a poor growing strategy. Add the lime.

You can add the coco coir. Treat it the same as FFOF for volume purposes.

Lets say you have 10 gallons of FFOF plus your coco.

I'd add ~3 gallons of EWC's.

Then I would add your perlite...maybe 4 gallons(To give about 30% of final volume) to begin with. Then wet it and see how it "feels". Grab a big fistfull of your mix and make a ball of it. If it falls apart fairly easy, you're probably good. If the mix makes something like a "mudball". You need to add more perlite. EWC's can make the mix really heavy. So you need to balance that off somehow. Make sense?

Beyond that, I'll defer to Burn1 and others...as I am not familiar with Biobizz and the other nutes listed. FFOF POM Fruit and Flower should work though. I've used it on non cannabis plants. However, others can say better.

And Yes on watering with worm tea every watering. Burn1 will tell you that.

My feeling is if you do a lot of "prep work" inthe beginning, your grow will go MUCH smoother with fewer problems. That's been my experience so far.

Later gator

Toodles

 

[GrizzleB]

Can I use humus in place of EWC for the LC#1 mix? I'm still on the hunt for a large bag of EWC, I found a small bag and used it in my first round of soil but im needing to mix up a new batch asap for clones and can't find it were I did originally. If not il keep looking, thanks for any advice!

 

[toodles]

Can I use humus in place of EWC for the LC#1 mix? I'm still on the hunt for a large bag of EWC, I found a small bag and used it in my first round of soil but im needing to mix up a new batch asap for clones and can't find it were I did originally. If not il keep looking, thanks for any advice!

IMO...The quick answer is No.

BUT...what are you calling "humus"?

Worm castings are unique in many ways. And IMO there is no substitute. That said many people use good composts of one sort or another. But I'd prefer to use wormcastings if at all possible.

"Humus" generally means organic material that has been completely broken down. It is an essential component of all soiless mixes, but by itself is not very useful.

Toodles