Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Scrappy-doo]

Wow really? I figured the dead roots would just be luring in pests with a meal. So the bacteria in there will eat it and convert it into plant food? I thought maybe I needed some special enzymes to do that.

Thanks Boyd you just made my life much easier!

 

[Boyd Crowder]

Wow really? I figured the dead roots would just be luring in pests with a meal. So the bacteria in there will eat it and convert it into plant food? I thought maybe I needed some special enzymes to do that.

Thanks Boyd you just made my life much easier!

Those roots have the nutrients the previous grow had assimilated.
Thats ferts ready for the next round. the bacteria and fungi are breaking this stuff down as they are even growing.
its about creating a LIVING soil, the soil is alive and teaming with microbes.
Grow the soil, not the pot, you will be happier.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Wow that's cool. I'm liking this living soil thing! Thanks for the help man.

 

[Boyd Crowder]

hey man each one teach one - i picked up some HF Batshit 0-5-0 for the swell thats coming
also grabbed some clover seed for a living mulch - been a couple grows since i had a green mulch
im gone do a tea with the guano but im also going to top dress about monday day 14 with the guano. i had a choice of a 10-7-7 and this and decided to wait and use that for the veg .
my feed and seed upgraded their organics by like 1000 since the last time i was there
its nearly 50% organic in total now,when i first went a couple years ago they had maybe 15%
i can get nearly everything there for a lc or coots mix , but is all in 50#bags so, gonna expand my garden beds . its just nice to get that stuff all in one place within 3 miles and not at a boxstore

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Can anyone see any problems with this mix? I made it based on the recipes I have seen on here, adjusted a bit to what was available locally in bulk cheaply. Gonna mix it up if I don't hear any danger warnings from anyone in the next day or so. Muchly appreciated. I veg for 4-6 weeks usually with 1 plant per sq foot in the bloom room and in 3G pots that have about 2G of mix volume in it. I am ok with top dressing if they need a boost later on, and I have some liquid organic fert I can feed if need be as well.... so I do prefer on the light side so there is no burning or lockout issues.

Super Duper Soil
1 Cubic Foot = 7 Gallons

BASE
[ ] 3G PRO MIX HP (Recycled) (30% Perlite)
[ ] 2G Perlite
[ ] 1G Compost
[ ] 1/3G Guineapig Droppings
[ ] 1/3G Horse Manure
[ ] 1/3G Earthworm Castings

AMMENDMENTS

[ ] 1 Cup Bonemeal
[ ] 1 Cup Kelp Meal
[ ] 1 Cup Oyster Shell
[ ] 1 Cup Dehydrated Molasses
[ ] 1/2 Cup Alfalfa Meal
[ ] 1/2 Cup Blood Meal
[ ] 1/2 Cup Glacial Rock Dust
[ ] 1/4 Cup Azomite

 

[Boyd Crowder]

both the manures should be composted by your worm bns first, thats kinda looking reaL HOT there pwubs

 

[PaulieWaulie]

both the manures should be composted by your worm bns first, thats kinda looking reaL HOT there pwubs

Thanks for taking a look BOYD,

The horse manure has aged 10 years itself. Both I think aren't considered "hot" manures and are ok to add directly in traditional agriculture. Both are from herbivores so itis just hay that goes trough the intestine and has added bacteria just like a worm. Thats my view at least.

Is it hot because of the manures which is only 1/3G each to one cubic foot. Which works out to 9% of total volume. (.66G/7G)

Or is it hot because of the ammendments? When looking at all the recipes on here I felt it was in line with those. Just 1 Cup for each of the basics, per cubic foot. I can cut it in half to be on the safe side, but then I am seriously worried that it wont be enough right from the get go.

 

[Boyd Crowder]

its hot if it isnt fermented/composted fully - if its been sitting around a couple years its fijne

 

[Jack T.Ripper]

Vegging a few clones of varying genetics in a medium will let you know very quickly whether it's "too hot" or not. Better them than a bigger lovely you want to snap.

Edit: looking at your mix, you might want to reduce to the blood and bone by at least 50%. The microbes do not like a "heavy" amendment. Plus, bone meal being so high in P, makes the plant want to utilize that P(because it is readily available) negating the need for mycorrhizae dependancy and resulting plant-microbe symbiosis.

 

[wasgedn]

def. not the horse manure....round about 3-2-3 but with microbes in it....
you have to kno youre compost , it can be hot + ph should be in good range...though its organic growing and you working with microbes...im not good enough to take my compost indoor...i used acelrators from animal mass farming ,not good...like the ripper said blood and bonemeal can be hot too...
water act,lacto or em it helps youre soilsystem...
do also ewc topping...
make it living then make fert topping...EDIT no...no fert topping...
imho

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Thanks for the feedback, total noob move just posting recipes, I know. Just need to do more reading and start of basic and build ipon my results from there.

Heres the mix that I will be using, I mixed it up 2 weeks ago, and it will sit for another 2 weeks so plenty of time for the microbes to break everything down. Keeping the bin indoors at around 17C. I simplified the whole thing really and learned a few things since posting thanks to various feedback.

Thanks!

LC’s MIX (slightly adjusted)
1 CUBIC FOOT BASE MIX
[x] 4 PARTS PRO MIX HP (30% Perlite)
[x] 2 PARTS WORM CASTINGS
[x] 1 PARTS PERLITE

40% PEAT
30% EWC
30% PERLITE


AMMENDMENTS

[x] 1 CUP BONE MEAL
[x] 1 CUP GLACIAL ROCK DUST
[x] 1/2 CUP KELP MEAL
[x] 1/2 CUP OYSTER SHELL
[x] 1/2 CUP DEHYDRATED MOLLASSES
[x] 1/2 CUP AZOMITE
[x] 1/4 CUP BLOOD MEAL
[x] 1/4 CUP ALFALFA MEAL


Worm castings I made myself and consist of


1/4 COMPOST (2 Years old)
1/4 LEAVES/STEMS/ROOTBALLS
1/4 PURE GUINEAPIG DROPPINGS (AGED 3 MONTHS)
1/4 HORSE MANURE (AGED 20 YEARS)

*KITCHEN SCRAPS ADDED WEEKLY

*CARDBOARD/SHREDDED PAPER ADDED TO CONTROL MOISTURE LEVEL

* 2 Year old compost has a tonne of variety so I would say very nutrient dense. All kinds of kitchen scraps, garden plants, toenails&hair, bathroom kleenex. Literally everything that can break down, not human or cat feces.

 

[IntotheGreen]

Hi all. Well, it took a while but I read this entire thread and am currently attempting my first organic soil grow.

First I wanna say thank you to everyone who contributes here because it is truly an awesome resource of knowledge.

My question is about my seedlings. I currently have 20 seedlings in plastic beer cups in basic mix; they are about 2 weeks old and ~2-3" tall, on their second set of real leaves, growing under a 315 CHM. In the last day or two the leaves have gotten lighter green in color and the cotyledon leaves are yellowing, so clearly they need some food. Now I have the rest of the soil mix with blood, bone, etc. sitting since I germed the seeds two weeks ago, so it should be more or less ready for up-potting, but my issue is that I don't really want to transplant them yet, as I only have space for 8-10 larger pots, so I would like them to veg longer in the beer cups, so I can make a better determination of which are male/female/keepers (half the seedlings are C99, which always shows sex by the 5th or 6th node.) Plus I accidentally knocked over a cup yesterday and it seemed like there was room for a good amount more root development in there. Also I don't have larger pots yet, lol.

So basically I figure I should feed my seedlings a tea to get them some nutrients. I know that blood meal can be made into a tea, but I can't seem to find the proper amount to use in this circumstance. My semi-educated guess would be start at like 1 teaspoon/gallon or maybe even 1/2 tsp? The blood meal is 12-0-0. I also have Dr. Earth Organic 4-6-3 fertilizer, which I have incorporated into the cooking soil mix, and can be made into a tea as well, and Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Liquid Seaweed. I could not find plain kelp meal when I was building my mix, so I got the Dr. Earth (which has kelp meal & kelp flour in it) and Neptune's as K replacements. And yes I am fully aware that I have deviated from the recipe and thus am now experimenting, and I accept the responsibility/consequences lol.

So obviously the primary need for my seedlings right now is nitrogen, but for general veg growth we want some P and K also, so I'm thinking of using a little blood, a little Dr. Earth, and a squirt of Neptune's, along with a pinch of molasses. As far as I can tell, blood meal doesn't need a 24hr bubbling/steeping period, correct? Just needs to be well-dissolved in water? The Dr. Earth however contains a bunch of microbes as well, and the package directs a 24hr setting period for use as a tea. So should I add the blood meal to the Dr. Earth tea at the beginning, or just Dr. Earth plus molasses for 24hrs, then add blood and seaweed, shake well and apply?

Curious if anyone here has ever used this product before? It looks to have a lot of good stuff in it, and actually smells kind of delicious, like an exotic tea.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Can't give you any tips on tea's but I would say vegging 7 weeks in party cups is not good. 3-4 weeks max is what I do. Maybe if you have containers that are same diameter but go a little higher that would work. Just an idea.

 

[slownickel]

Hi all. Well, it took a while but I read this entire thread and am currently attempting my first organic soil grow.

First I wanna say thank you to everyone who contributes here because it is truly an awesome resource of knowledge.

My question is about my seedlings. I currently have 20 seedlings in plastic beer cups in basic mix; they are about 2 weeks old and ~2-3" tall, on their second set of real leaves, growing under a 315 CHM. In the last day or two the leaves have gotten lighter green in color and the cotyledon leaves are yellowing, so clearly they need some food. Now I have the rest of the soil mix with blood, bone, etc. sitting since I germed the seeds two weeks ago, so it should be more or less ready for up-potting, but my issue is that I don't really want to transplant them yet, as I only have space for 8-10 larger pots, so I would like them to veg longer in the beer cups, so I can make a better determination of which are male/female/keepers (half the seedlings are C99, which always shows sex by the 5th or 6th node.) Plus I accidentally knocked over a cup yesterday and it seemed like there was room for a good amount more root development in there. Also I don't have larger pots yet, lol.

So basically I figure I should feed my seedlings a tea to get them some nutrients. I know that blood meal can be made into a tea, but I can't seem to find the proper amount to use in this circumstance. My semi-educated guess would be start at like 1 teaspoon/gallon or maybe even 1/2 tsp? The blood meal is 12-0-0. I also have Dr. Earth Organic 4-6-3 fertilizer, which I have incorporated into the cooking soil mix, and can be made into a tea as well, and Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Liquid Seaweed. I could not find plain kelp meal when I was building my mix, so I got the Dr. Earth (which has kelp meal & kelp flour in it) and Neptune's as K replacements. And yes I am fully aware that I have deviated from the recipe and thus am now experimenting, and I accept the responsibility/consequences lol.

So obviously the primary need for my seedlings right now is nitrogen, but for general veg growth we want some P and K also, so I'm thinking of using a little blood, a little Dr. Earth, and a squirt of Neptune's, along with a pinch of molasses. As far as I can tell, blood meal doesn't need a 24hr bubbling/steeping period, correct? Just needs to be well-dissolved in water? The Dr. Earth however contains a bunch of microbes as well, and the package directs a 24hr setting period for use as a tea. So should I add the blood meal to the Dr. Earth tea at the beginning, or just Dr. Earth plus molasses for 24hrs, then add blood and seaweed, shake well and apply?

Curious if anyone here has ever used this product before? It looks to have a lot of good stuff in it, and actually smells kind of delicious, like an exotic tea.
View Image
View Image
View Image

Thanks in advance for any advice!

That analysis looks very good.

 

[IntotheGreen]

Can't give you any tips on tea's but I would say vegging 7 weeks in party cups is not good. 3-4 weeks max is what I do. Maybe if you have containers that are same diameter but go a little higher that would work. Just an idea.

Lol yeah 7 weeks would be a little much! I figure on 3-4 like you say - in my previous exp my Cinderella has always shown sex while still in solo cups, so if I can at least get those males weeded (ha!) out, I should have a little more space to work with. I went ahead and added 1/2 cup of the Dr. Earth to a gallon of water last night (half strength based on the directions) plus a tsp of molasses and gave it a good shake. Will shake it up again now, let it sit for a few more hours, then later today I will add probably 1/2 tsp blood meal and a capful of seaweed, shake like hell and apply. I'll report back with my results.

 

[xmobotx]

i like a top dress of worm castings for seedlings at the stage you describe. when the taproot hits the edge of the container is the best time to transplant in organics ~since transplanting is roughly equal to "feeding"

blood meal needs to be applied sparingly ~esp. to young seedlings! {i would not}

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Also for tea you want to bubble it for aroun 36 hours. you mentioned you are letting it sit, so not sure if you are bubbling it, but that is best for the bacteria. they are aerobic

 

[IntotheGreen]

Thanks Paulie, I will let it go overnight and then apply tomorrow morning, which will bring me to about 36 hrs. I'm only making a gallon so I'm not bubbling so much as just shaking the fuck out of it every couple hrs and letting it sit in an open gallon jug in between. It certainly smells uh, ripe lol.

X, concerns about blood meal strength duly noted. I think in the name of science I am gonna go ahead and add a PINCH (1/4-1/2 teaspoon) to the tea before I feed. These little buggers are looking super hungry - getting yellow fast, which I notice does seem to happen quicker using the CMH than even the regular MH bulb. Also, as to the top dress idea... I was REALLY trying to avoid mentioning that earthworm castings were the other ingredient that I couldn't find separately lol. I did use two different base potting mix bags that included EWC, and one of those along with the Dr. Earth serve as my primary sources of microbes. The fully amended mix that's waiting for transplant did get nice and warm for about 4 or 5 days right after I mixed it, so I think there's definitely some good active life in there.

 

[h.h.]

Ask around your local farmer's market for sources of vermicompost. Craigslist is another avenue.

 

[PakSamGyiShing]

IntoTheGreen

I used a very similar Dr. Earth mix for my porch grow this year that did really excellently @3cups/cf of potting mix. This was probably about half the rate of what a water-only grow would have been since I supplemented the rest of the way with botanical teas. I inherited something like a 30-40lb bag from my former room mates a few years ago so it's a slightly different formula: NPKS of 5-7-3-2 with ~8%Ca derived from Fish Bone Meal, feather meal, kelp meal, alfalfa meal, SRP, fish meal, Potassium Sulfate and seaweed extract. Plus all the microbes and mycos, with 10% leonardite. Not bad for a freebie. I'd use just about all that stuff anyways except the feather meal.

In lieu of a top dress of worm castings (which for an organic grow may be the most essential component), a weak tea of the Dr. Earth you have by itself should be sufficient given the alfalfa and fish in it. The alfalfa has the additional benefits of triacontanol, and then of course the hormones, etc. in the kelp meal. This stuff goes so much further than just the nitrogen in the blood meal. Personal preference maybe but I'd completely forgo the blood altogether.

If you have access to any compost that would work as a topdress as well, as that's always my own go-to for the veggie garden if I see something needing a pick-me-up. Even hungry fellows like corn respond overnight to a layer of compost thrown down around them and watered in.

HTH and GG