Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Dr.RedWhite]

My point was that one persons version of sustainability could be another persons version of destruction.

Factory farms are bad only to those that care about animal rights. The millions of people they feed on the other hand might beg to differ. Not buying the byproducts of these industries does not mitigate their existence. It could be argued that the failure to use the byproducts creates more harm than good. What else are we supposed to do with all the blood and bone and feathers and manure, etc, - make massive piles of all these to sit and leach into specific watersheds? Is not utilizing the byproducts in a manner to grow agricultural commodities not only environmentally friendly but also THE BEST application in regards to sustaining an ever growing populace?

TECHNICALLY, animal husbandry, and the usage of farms lands to grow grains to feed these animals is unsustainable in the long term. These are lands that could be growing food crops for human consumption. I suppose, if sustainability is the primary concern, we should all become vegan.

Global shipping of amendments is bad to those that concern themselves with carbon footprint and destruction of ecosystems due to crude spills, etc.

TECHNICALLY, if one is against such things we should all be encouraging people to drive an electric car and invest in solar farms so the electricity needed to charge said cars is coming from a sustainable/renewable source.

Guano bad to those who consider animal habitat.

Peat bad for those who consider ecosystem and renew-ability.

Oyster shell bad for those that consider marine coral systems.

Rock dusts of all types bad to those that are against commercial strip mining.

Comfrey, nettle, yarrow, horsetail, etc could all be considered invasive non-native plants depending on where live that could quickly overtake the local fauna.

I mean, really. The list could go on forever. There is an caveat that could be applied to the usage of pretty much anything. THAT is my point.

When people discuss why they use a given amendment, it should be from the perspective of soil health and nutritional provision - not from the notion of a superior moral high ground on global impact.

I don't mind people sharing their personal decisions for why they use what amendments they use - but to the point a group of people tries to influence the masses based on that subjective morality, which indirectly states others are some how inferior in their methodologies, again, it becomes dogmatic. I don't view that statement as being derogatory either, as much as I see it applying definition to the scenario being discussed.



I don't disagree with these statements. What I do have an issue with, (and not saying this applies to you, we are just conversing) is when people decide their particular niche of encouraging sustainability or particular model of eco-friendliness is somehow better than that of another.

I'm not trying to defend my usage of any particular amendment or belittle the choices others make on what to use, but I am acknowledging the fallacy that comes into play once you open that can of worms. There isn't MUCH we do as humanity that is truly in line with living in harmony with nature. Doesn't mean we shouldn't TRY - it just means where one seeks to make an argument or defense of a given practice, it is far to easy to make a rebuttal that is equally as based in logic or principal, depending on what your personal ideologies are, and how one personally views their interaction with the world around them. I would imagine, we each feel, in our applied usage of various materials, that we are making the "best" choice.

I think the ONLY truth to be had in such discussions is to the tune of sourcing LOCAL. That means "best" is going to be something different for everyone.

Good conversation, Weird. You know I have respect for you - and I appreciate how often you present your opinions in a manner that is well thought out and defended without using language that attacks or belittles. You're good people, F.A.M.



dank.Frank

Absolutely outstanding post!

 

[Kozmo]

Just PH'd my water 8.3(RO) water. Should I be worried?

I have city water at 6.5-6.8. I could bubble out the chloromine. It also has fluoride in it. Thoughts?

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Just PH'd my water 8.3(RO) water. Should I be worried?

I have city water at 6.5-6.8. I could bubble out the chloromine. It also has fluoride in it. Thoughts?

I grow organic, I would not worry about PHing RO water for anything. RO water will not give you an accurate PH because their is nothing to measure, also it takes so very little to adjust the PH either way.

You can not bubble out chloromine as you can chlorine.The best way to neutralize chloromine or chlorine is with something organic, I use a teaspoon of Blackstrap Molasses per gallon of water to neutralize the chloromine. Don't know much about fluoride.

What I wouldn't give for 6.5-6.8 PH tap water! Mine is 8.0!

 

[Boss Cocky]

Hi everyone,

I've been growing using growing using Biocanna for a few years and am looking to move to a water only soilless mix. I was planning on using the nutrient mix #1 with LC's soilless mix #1 or with Canna Terra Professional.

I can get blood meal but bone meal by itself doesn't seem to be available here in Australia. I can only find blood and bone together and even had to go looking for pure blood and bone as it normally comes with extra potash and other mineral nutrients.

The pure blood and bone I can get has the following nutrient profile:

N 8.0: P 4.6: K 0.5: Ca 9.0

Will this replicate the blood and bone meal in the 1:2 ratio in the nutrient mix #1?

Cheers,
Boss Cocky

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Boss Cocky,
Can you get Fish Bone Meal or Crustacean/Crab Meal? I would much rather use those, if available. Alfalfa Meal would also be a better choice than Blood Meal for a Nitrogen source IMO.

 

[Boyd Crowder]

theres alot of different choices for n and p i did a resource posting lemme find that for you

 

[Boss Cocky]

Midnight Toker,

Thanks for your response. A quick search didn't yield any results for those products. I suspect if I look hard enough I'll be able to find alfalfa meal, probably at a health food shop. Otherwise I could grow it (like the poms, we call it Lucerne here). I just need to find out how to process it. Would you mind telling me why you consider the products you mentioned superior to blood and bone?

Boyd Crowder, Thanks for your post also. I look forward to checking out your list.

I'm still looking for an answer to the blood and bone question if anyone can shed any light.

Cheers,
Boss Cocky

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Boss,
Blood Meal is very high in Nitrogen and pretty much nothing else and acts very fast and is easier to burn and over fertilize your plants with N, promoting green growth and inhibiting flowering. Alfalfa Meal has a better balance of N-P and K.

Crustacean/Crab Meal is N-P, high in Calcium and also Chitin, which is an insect and fungal growth suppressor and aids in the plants defense mechanism.

FishBone Meal is very high in Phosphorous and has some Nitrogen and Calcium
If you can get Kelp Meal which is a good source of K and is loaded with trace minerals and many micro nutrients the combination of Fishbone Meal, Crab Meal, Alfalfa Meal and Kelp Meal will give you a broader range of nutrients and the more diversity you have the better for the plants.

Many people try to stay away from Blood and Bone Meal primarily for the hormones and antibiotics they are loading into the animals, some from Mad Cow Disease and then some do it for the ethics of of animal treatment.

 

[VortexPower420]

^ well said

 

[Punisher 421]

Agreed

 

[Phenome]

Crustacean/Crab Meal is N-P, high in Calcium and also Chitin, which is an insect and fungal growth suppressor and aids in the plants defense mechanism.

Chitin is a great fungal food..
I think you meant to say it is a good pathenogenic fungal growth suppressor?
That would be correct.

chitosan addition amplified the benefits of mycorrhizal inoculation in strawberry with Glomus sp.; specifically increased growth, fruit yield and a delay of the onset of powdery mildew.


http://ojs.tsv.fi/index.php/AFS/article/viewFile/4997/4528

 

[LyryC]

sat nam brothers

here are some essential oils id like to use for foliar ipm prevention.

Black pepper
Citronella
Lemongrass
Rosemary
Eucalyptus
Peppermint

doTERRA oils. The kind you can eat - no cheap shit.

Am I missing anything vital?

Appreciate it, thank you!

 

[Mikell]

Minimalism. Rosemary and peppermint are sufficient.

I've yet to see anything work as well as either. Witch brew style mixes are a pain in the ass to measure out. 500ml of either will cost much less than ten 50ml bottles.

And how is one to know what is working and what is not? Phytotoxicity?

That came out too negative. What I mean is, using essential oils in isolation is preferable. Field results are still touch and go (rosemary has yet to give 95%+ kill on TSSM), and the research is very new. The less muddy the water, the faster we understand what works and what doesn't.

I have read promising research on lemongrass and mean to pick some up one day. As a fumigant, but worth a gander. The highest efficacy at the lowest concentration yet. Bearing in mind the small particle size of fumigants allows lower concentrations to achieve similar result as a foliar. As. I. Recall.

Midnight Toker,

Thanks for your response. A quick search didn't yield any results for those products. I suspect if I look hard enough I'll be able to find alfalfa meal, probably at a health food shop. Otherwise I could grow it (like the poms, we call it Lucerne here). I just need to find out how to process it. Would you mind telling me why you consider the products you mentioned superior to blood and bone?

Boyd Crowder, Thanks for your post also. I look forward to checking out your list.

I'm still looking for an answer to the blood and bone question if anyone can shed any light.

Cheers,
Boss Cocky

Most here are American, they have access to a wider range of products.

Just be glad they aren't recommending International shipping on exotic soil amendments and dirt.

There is nothing wrong with a blood and bone mix. Half the people that lift their nose were perfectly fine eating the flesh of the cow. They couldn't kill the cow and fuck me if they want to deal with the mess left over.

See dank.franks explanation.

Here's an idea. Don't eat half a pound of meat with every meal. Supply is feeding demand, you fat brained behemoths. The factory farm is the beast your habits created.

There is an AU subforum, otherwise ozstoner is a good Southie forum. You'll get more relevant advice.

 

[Amoeba]

So much good info on this sub forum, especially in this thread! Respect to all involved for helping guys interested in going organic over the years.

 

[Kozmo]

Ratios

Ratios

Mikell, what ratios are you useing the rosemary and pepperment at?

 

[Mikell]

I have used rosemary up to 1.5% (SNS goes as high as 2%).

Peppermint, 0.125-0.25%.

Separately, I haven't mixed.

Test out a patch or plant. Peppermint will burn a few spots given half a chance (dry plants, overspraying re: residue, etc).

 

[Happyflowlucky]

Thank you!

Thank you!

I read through this over the last week or so and want to thank everyone that provided information and guidance. I learned a lot from this and it was well worth the time it took to read through it.

 

[chilliwilli]

Hi anyone, wonderfull thread.
I'm planing to make my first no-till bed and searching the i-net i found a company that sells shell grit from fossilized shells.
Has anyone experience with that kind of ca source? I think that it would be a slower releasing one than normal oystershells.
Thx willi

 

[Mikell]

Sounds like diatomaceous earth.

?

 

[chilliwilli]

I think shell limestone is the right term in english