Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Weird]

I noticed this really unproductive quality that humanity can choose to posses.

When there is an important issue directly related to humanity that is bigger than us as individuals people go through various stages of detachment and denial.

My guess is because they can't logically come to terms with a way to effect it so why let it take roost in your mind. The problem is that many of these collective issues related to humanity require us as individuals to look at a given issue and contribute in our own way to change it for the better.

It could be said to be similar to the microcosm macrocosm model.

Denial and detachment do not bring important lasting change, nor should that mindset exist in the mind of the mindful.

 

[heady blunts]

we postmodern babies of the 80's and later often have to embrace cynicism to cope with the completely fucked economy, ecosystem, and political system we've inherited.

it's a shield for sure. perhaps not entirely productive. but we do our best with the options available.

fwiw i also don't use blood and bone because i do my best to avoid products from the factory meat industry. this effort starts when i buy my food, but it certainly extends to other areas of my life, and i chose to apply that philosophy to my garden as well.

i can't afford insurance, but i manage my very thin budget in such a way to prioritize healthy foods. i buy the pastured eggs even tho the factory eggs are less than a quarter of the price. i buy the pastured meat even if it means i only get to eat meat a couple times a week instead of three times a day. hell i even got gelatin that has been ground from the bones and hooves of pastured cows because because.

i just try to stay healthy and grow great herb. i'm not trying to coercively convert anyone to do it my way. that sounds exhausting.

regardless of my actions, my identity as a queer trans cannabis farmer of color makes me uniquely at odds with most instituted sociopolitical systems. i stopped kidding myself a long time ago that i would live to see the day when the average joe will not feel threatened by my existence. i'm just trying to survive at this point.

i'll tell ya i've got a lot more upset feelings about the rampant misogyny and racism on the canna boards than about people's choice of amendments!

 

[Mikell]

Heady touched on it a bit, but I've always been of the mind to make the good choices you can and to not sweat the ones you have to make.

If I had money falling out my ass and no aged dependents, I'm sure I could afford to live purely to ideals.

Are there rationalizations that sound as weak as they look? Yeah. But I guarantee if I went over anyone's life with a fine comb, I'd find much of the same.

I'm rarely surprised anymore at your ability to stare down your nose at others.

Frank raised some very good points, but then.... eh. I can sympathize with him backing off. It's quite a greased pig wrastle trying to keep you on topic and the esoteric rambling to a minimum. This support for sea floor dredging and aquatic habitat destruction is boggling as well.

But really, I think most see you clearly, and something of value has cropped up.

Heady. Much respect. I haven't heard you share this before. If this is the first time I applaud the confidence it takes to openly talk about it, especially as you mention, with the rampant ignorance among some growers/forums.

Use of the wording confidence/courage in this regard seems devalued, but who doesn't like a good cliche.

Maybe one day. Bit too used to growing up in the stix, where the local inbred "don't take too kindly to different kind around here".

 

[Weird]

we postmodern babies of the 80's and later often have to embrace cynicism to cope with the completely fucked economy, ecosystem, and political system we've inherited.

I inherited the same.

it's a shield for sure. perhaps not entirely productive. but we do our best with the options available.

I called out this behavior as a part of human nature. Not any one particular person's nature. I know this nature well because I possess the same nature. I also know what happens when we transcend this behavior.

If you identify with it, I applaud you for being honest, if you feel condemned to the options you have been taught, I would remind you they are not the only ones that exist, nor are you limited to being forced to conform the world you have inherited.

fwiw i also don't use blood and bone because i do my best to avoid products from the factory meat industry. this effort starts when i buy my food, but it certainly extends to other areas of my life, and i chose to apply that philosophy to my garden as well.

I started with bone and blood and only stopped because people talked about the sustainability of it. I LOVE growing with bone and blood. I try to adapt to a more sustainable model for the benefit of myself and others. Sometimes I leave my comfort zone to do so. If nothing else it has taught me I don't need to be reliant on any source which was a goal when I first came to embrace organics.

i can't afford insurance, but i manage my very thin budget in such a way to prioritize healthy foods. i buy the pastured eggs even tho the factory eggs are less than a quarter of the price. i buy the pastured meat even if it means i only get to eat meat a couple times a week instead of three times a day. hell i even got gelatin that has been ground from the bones and hooves of pastured cows because because.

i just try to stay healthy and grow great herb. i'm not trying to coercively convert anyone to do it my way. that sounds exhausting.

It would be foolish to think that humans differ from computers in as much that garbage in garbage out applies to them, us and our gardens. Seems you are learning this through experience, just as I have.

regardless of my actions, my identity as a queer trans cannabis farmer of color makes me uniquely at odds with most instituted sociopolitical systems. i stopped kidding myself a long time ago that i would live to see the day when the average joe will not feel threatened by my existence. i'm just trying to survive at this point.

i'll tell ya i've got a lot more upset feelings about the rampant misogyny and racism on the canna boards than about people's choice of amendments!

Suggesting people be mindful is not being upset. It is planting the seed of mindfulness.

You mentioned something about inheriting the world in the state it is in, and here you are a minority and transgender creating for those just like you the expression thereof in light of oppression.

Through mindfulness of your own human condition and courage to express it regardless those that come after you will have a different inheritance.

No it is not a switch, your actions and sacrifices wont change the whole of the world but much like civil rights in America the more we push for equal right the more they are realized, the more we live according to those freedoms the more they become manifest.

Inaction is apathy, and you are not apathetic, yet we cannot live outside of a balance that is healthy for us, something you seek.

Now while you can't control the wrongs you still suffer, and your courage won't make it just stop, you are one step in many steps of change.

As someone else who has been marginalized and deviated from the norm I can tell you that at some point I had to self validate my deviance. It can be lonely marching to the beat of a drum you feel must be marched to. It is at these times that I am reminding of a quote from Frank Zappa, without deviation there would be no progress. I would add there would be no diversity or evolution either.

At some point we cannot expect the mainstream validate the humanity that pushes boundaries for it's own benefit. Ignorance and apathy are mantras of the mainstream so to expect validation from them by pushing the boundaries of evolution will leave you feeling empty.


This does not mean your actions aren't validated simply by the execution thereof, or that they go unrequited by the universe, or even other humans who have come to think and feel the same.

Thanks for the courage and honesty.

 

[Weird]

Heady touched on it a bit, but I've always been of the mind to make the good choices you can and to not sweat the ones you have to make.

seems reasonable

If I had money falling out my ass and no aged dependents, I'm sure I could afford to live purely to ideals.

Ideals are much like a compass, they set a course. If someone presents ideals and they live accordingly they have a level of integrity. If someone presents ideals that are unattainable they do not. Then it comes down to the nature of the ideals. Are they narcissistic or altruistic because this is the context in which they effect our collective humanity.

I think very few humans can live purely by ideals unless they are base and shallow, regardless of the money one possesses.

Are there rationalizations that sound as weak as they look? Yeah. But I guarantee if I went over anyone's life with a fine comb, I'd find much of the same.

Ideals are something we strive for, survival is something we do out of necessity and sometimes it calls for us to compromise those ideals.

This does not mean ideals be abandoned for survival or survival for ideals, there are graceful resolutions waiting to be found for all things if you are willing to put the effort in to find that resolve. Both an individual and societal level.

It seems you judge failure or success on the totality of ones efforts at any given time, and not on cause and effect.

Does perfection of deployment ensure perfection in manifestation?

Is perfection needed to evoke causation or does effort alone effect it?

I'm rarely surprised anymore at your ability to stare down your nose at others.

This is entirely a manufacture of your own design, a defect of your own character that takes a blanket statement that applies to our shared human nature and say I am looking down my nose at anyone.

Frank raised some very good points, but then.... eh. I can sympathize with him backing off. It's quite a greased pig wrastle trying to keep you on topic and the esoteric rambling to a minimum. This support for sea floor dredging and aquatic habitat destruction is boggling as well.

Or perhaps he had respect enough for my perspective to listen and appreciate it. Perhaps you don't understand the depth of the relationships between members here.

But really, I think most see you clearly, and something of value has cropped up.

If most see me clearly from the same lens as you use your collective intellectual acumen to run me out of town like Frankenstein.

Should be easy if your perceptions are right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1FLZPFI3jc&feature=youtu.be&t=114

Heady. Much respect. I haven't heard you share this before. If this is the first time I applaud the confidence it takes to openly talk about it, especially as you mention, with the rampant ignorance among some growers/forums.

Use of the wording confidence/courage in this regard seems devalued, but who doesn't like a good cliche.

Maybe one day. Bit too used to growing up in the stix, where the local inbred "don't take too kindly to different kind around here".

 

[mrS0ul]

Fascinating.

Fascinating.

Most illogical one would use choices made in the past as it relates to ones arc or trajectory in their life to assert their present position. IMO this excuses no one of reason. Certainly so as it pertains to the subject of environmental / responsibility / accountability et al. and all devoid of respectability IMO.

IMO / IME this is the ethic that brought us Bhopal, timber clear cutting / fracking / tar sands extraction/ Taiiji Dolphin Slaughter / baby seal clubbers et al. I say fuckall to all that.

Some one around here has a quote.
"When the facts change, I change my mind."
Imo selective dogmatism is thinly veiled and weakly, conscious or not, contrairian.
Devil's advocacy perhaps?
Argument for argument's sake?.. which has significant weight.
In their defence
those that know me know I'm a
Friend of the Devil.

St.Spock

 

[heady blunts]

i should state for the record i dearly love everyone that's posted on the last two pages. it's like all my favorite contributors!

i was just mentioning to someone how i have always had brilliant friends with strong opinions. amidst all of this back and forth, i am quite pleased to have all your virtual company---i feel right at home.

 

[Microbeman]

Some one around here has a quote.
"When the facts change, I change my mind."

Must be some kind of dumass.

 

[mrS0ul]

Huzzah! Here here!

Huzzah! Here here!

i should state for the record i dearly love everyone that's posted on the last two pages. it's like all my favorite contributors!

i was just mentioning to someone how i have always had brilliant friends with strong opinions. amidst all of this back and forth, i am quite pleased to have all your virtual company---i feel right at home.

The only reason I have the audacity / temerity / cajjones to pipe up in a thread full of the Sage / Mentor / Sifu types is 'cause this is Organics for Beginners.
:deepbow:

Must be some kind of dumass.

Sorry Microbeman, your oh so wrong. ...but that's OK 'cause anyone can be wrong about anything. :wink: and a :nod:

Respectfully signed to all,
蚱蜢

 

[Coba]

When there is an important issue directly related to humanity that is bigger than us as individuals people go through various stages of detachment and denial.

My cognitive dissonance is bigger than yours Weird.

seriously though, something I was thinking about after I read this post Weird. When I talk to people, smart people, whom I've known for a long time and trust, I can see how denial and detachment, cognitive dissonance, can give any observer the illusion that they are contributing to making a difference even when they are not. Not even close. Take global warming for instance. Smart people look at scientific evidence. Smart people who think they are smarter than most will look at the fringe scientific evidence as well because it isn't the "mainstream" science, because super duper smart people know that anything popular and mainstream is dumb. So, currently the fringe science is stating that global warming is a hoax and that the Earth just goes through these cycles and there is nothing to worry about. Now, smart people who think they are smarter than most, read the fringe science, because only stupid sheep eat what is spoon fed to them through "mainstream" science and media, and believe that global warming is a hoax and everyone who thinks otherwise is a stupid sheep.

It's just like when I want to grow Horsetail in my yard to use it as a nutrient accumulator. I post "hey, I'm going to use Horsetail in my yard as a nutrient accumulator." some smart person... who is smarter than most posts back "hey, don't do that because Horsetail is an invasive species and you will cause damage to the natural flora of your native site...blah, blah blah"

however, Horsetail (the most common nursery variety) happens to be a native species to ALL 50 states, Canada, Mexico, Central America in Guatemala, Europe and Asia. This super duper smart person didn't do all of their homework and chose me to show everyone else how super duper smart and environmentally conscience they are. which was absolutely wrong of course.

You guys need to stop polarizing people and alienating the rest of them, because it sounds to me like someone saying "you're either on the bus or off the bus". and if this organic sub-forum is going back to that "militant hippy" state consider me OFF the bus!

this will probably be my last post in this section of the forums for a while...

 

[Ricow]

Please keep the focus on growing and sharing
where can i get neem cake in europe to go 100% organic

 

[Weird]

http://neemresource.com/OnlineOrder.html

they take international orders and are a good source.

people try to dismiss the value of neem meal as a amendment but it is more than a source of nutrient but is also anit-fungal and anti-sucking pests (no neem meal does NOT harm beneficial insects).

Not many amendments have additional IPM features included. Insect frass and crab meal off the top of my head. These seems to be the evolution in choosing amendments, although finding local alternatives is optimal.

 

[Weird]

My cognitive dissonance is bigger than yours Weird.

seriously though, something I was thinking about after I read this post Weird. When I talk to people, smart people, whom I've known for a long time and trust, I can see how denial and detachment, cognitive dissonance, can give any observer the illusion that they are contributing to making a difference even when they are not. Not even close. Take global warming for instance. Smart people look at scientific evidence. Smart people who think they are smarter than most will look at the fringe scientific evidence as well because it isn't the "mainstream" science, because super duper smart people know that anything popular and mainstream is dumb. So, currently the fringe science is stating that global warming is a hoax and that the Earth just goes through these cycles and there is nothing to worry about. Now, smart people who think they are smarter than most, read the fringe science, because only stupid sheep eat what is spoon fed to them through "mainstream" science and media, and believe that global warming is a hoax and everyone who thinks otherwise is a stupid sheep.

It's just like when I want to grow Horsetail in my yard to use it as a nutrient accumulator. I post "hey, I'm going to use Horsetail in my yard as a nutrient accumulator." some smart person... who is smarter than most posts back "hey, don't do that because Horsetail is an invasive species and you will cause damage to the natural flora of your native site...blah, blah blah"

however, Horsetail (the most common nursery variety) happens to be a native species to ALL 50 states, Canada, Mexico, Central America in Guatemala, Europe and Asia. This super duper smart person didn't do all of their homework and chose me to show everyone else how super duper smart and environmentally conscience they are. which was absolutely wrong of course.

You guys need to stop polarizing people and alienating the rest of them, because it sounds to me like someone saying "you're either on the bus or off the bus". and if this organic sub-forum is going back to that "militant hippy" state consider me OFF the bus!

this will probably be my last post in this section of the forums for a while...

All I suggested is ALL people not remove sustainability from organics because it is too complex, abstract or difficult practice to follow for themselves and/or others.

You never see sustainable and synthetic in the same sentence but sustainable and organic are. in fact most any organic practice in some for is sustainable. The degree of which becomes relative but I never argued degree.

If sustainable and organics seem incompatible and irrelevant then make a case for it.

If we use your climate example I can readily produce a paper that show climate scientist themselves are biased because of political and religious reasoning.

Making group statements with no definable conclusion does not create understanding as does ignoring the issue.

I would love have people here contest relative logic with relative logic.

In my mind the only thing that polarizes people is their own perception.

When the old ROLS crew was here plying their methods I didn't feel threatened or bothered by their difference of their understanding to mine. Did I understand as much about organics, no. Was there polarization against those that did? yes, if people went to that thread and evoked them (off topic posters). Did I adopt that polarization onto myself that was cast out in those threads? No, why the fuck would I?

Other peoples opinions don't define my reality, sorry. I do realize that many people blaze up, read shit, identify with it, and get but hurt.

Truth is most people fail miserably at reading comprehension and continuity and they manufacture one meaning when there others to be distilled.

Smart without the application wisdom is not applied intelligence it is applied delusion.

 

[Weird]

the most ironic part is people seem to start with basic mixes and end up with a variation of LOS and the longer the grow successfully organically they more sustainable their practices become and in the end they all say "Why didn't I start growing THIS way in the beginning!" this being the latest stage of mastery.

But God forbid you suggest they keep all this in mind in the beginning.

lol

 

[mrS0ul]

Neem

Neem

Please keep the focus on growing and sharing
where can i get neem cake in europe to go 100% organic

I sourced mines off amazon or ebay. Comes from India? I think. Surely you can find it. Best price. This neem all the cool kids like, cant remember the name atm. Its on my supply list in Organics for Beginners Long Bloom Sativa Thread.

Mine was sourced from CO. Repackaged. I'd say they buy in bulk.


Top 'O the Morning Ricow.

 

[Mikell]

He's like an esoteric Energizer Bunny chatbot, churning out giberrati all hours of the day.

Smart people who think they are smarter than most will look at the fringe scientific evidence as well because it isn't the "mainstream" science, because super duper smart people know that anything popular and mainstream is dumb. So, currently the fringe science is stating that global warming is a hoax and that the Earth just goes through these cycles and there is nothing to worry about. Now, smart people who think they are smarter than most, read the fringe science, because only stupid sheep eat what is spoon fed to them through "mainstream" science and media, and believe that global warming is a hoax and everyone who thinks otherwise is a stupid sheep.

Take your round earth and shove it where the sun don't shine.


I love hydro. I love organics. I get as much satisfaction watching worms poke around the soil as I do measuring milligrams per litre.


If I were smart, I would only like organic. If I were truly intelligent, I would hold Weird's opinion.


A great democratic statesman was quoted recently.


"Please, don't listen to anyone but me."


The stuff empires are made from.

Maybe when my third eye opens up I'll see the light. Or maybe TM had it right and hallucinogenic drugs are the answer (they are).


Ahimsa is the brand the cool kids use (Soul).

 

[Weird]

or youll talk hydro in a hydro thread and organics in an organics thread and remain relevant.

An attack of my character in absence of logic is nothing less.

analogous to the global warming issue is sustainability, and while we haven't qualified global warming we are learning the pain of inaction. Thinking sustainability isn't inappropriate here.

If your going to slight me use real logic don't be a child and name call, or shut me up by showing me the superior results of your logic and its applications in your gardens gentlemen, it really is that easy.

 

[heady blunts]

ahimsa brand neem is the nice stuff at least for what's imported to the US.

neemresource dot com is the importer. BAS distributes for them. you can buy directly from neemresource too---the price diff is negligible after shipping.

 

[Highlighter]

I just started using the ahimsa neem meal and am now a big fan.
I grow in Airpots, which are the perfect environment for gnats.
I keep my seedling mix pretty simple and had gnats when they were in cups, but as soon as I transplanted with the new mix, not a one!

I for one have enjoyed the discourse that's transpired over the last pages. Kudos to everyone for keeping it civil.

 

[Microbeman]

Truth is most people fail miserably at reading comprehension and continuity

Have wiser words been typed upon these forums?