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Tutorial Organics for Beginners
- Thread starter BurnOne
- Start date
Hello,
and nice to meet you guys! I need a little help and I was told that I can get it here.
I will make my questions as easy to answer as possible. I've grown in most mediums out-there, and of course time came to go organic. I've read a lot and I understand the basics somewhat, but I'm afraid to start without your green light. I'm mainly looking for the last transplant pot ingredients (3-4 weeks 'till harvest).
So, in Romania (where I live) we have available the following ingredients (I'll try to be as accurate as possible):
- Perlite 6mm ( that was a easy one
)
- Earth Worm Castings (another easy one )
- Agro garden compost ("composted raw materials of vegetable origin with admixed dolomitic limestone. Brings basic nutrients (in particular nitrogen) and trace elements into soil." Just one shop list this as containing peat.)
- deciduous forest soil [ top 2 inches (5cm). I already went 30 miles on my bike and got a bucket of that.]
- peat base soil (like terra seed mix, which is good also for the first 2-3 weeks of veg. Now I read that has bactericide properties , so it's not good for organic. What else?)
- coco coir (I hate it as a single ingredient and I prefer not to use it, but you guys have the last word)
- Guanokalong Complete Organics, or any individual ingredient from this product, or any product from this company.
- we have available powdered dolomitic lime, epsom salt...
1) Have I missed anything?
2) What to use and in what proportions?
I also wonder if you guys refer to volume or weight. I mean 3 liters of perlit is 3 liters of perlit, but 3 liters of garden compost or EWC depends on how pressed it is.
3) Can you recommend a product that will diversify my microbes as much as possible ? I have 1 year old EWC, but I have a feeling is not enough.
I've read Teaming with microbes and got the general idea. I know how to make tea. I've read all 300 pages from Heisenberg topic when I was DWC-ing.
Thank you for your time, and sorry for my not so perfect english.
and nice to meet you guys! I need a little help and I was told that I can get it here.
I will make my questions as easy to answer as possible. I've grown in most mediums out-there, and of course time came to go organic. I've read a lot and I understand the basics somewhat, but I'm afraid to start without your green light. I'm mainly looking for the last transplant pot ingredients (3-4 weeks 'till harvest).
So, in Romania (where I live) we have available the following ingredients (I'll try to be as accurate as possible):
- Perlite 6mm ( that was a easy one
)- Earth Worm Castings (another easy one )
- Agro garden compost ("composted raw materials of vegetable origin with admixed dolomitic limestone. Brings basic nutrients (in particular nitrogen) and trace elements into soil." Just one shop list this as containing peat.)
- deciduous forest soil [ top 2 inches (5cm). I already went 30 miles on my bike and got a bucket of that.]
- peat base soil (like terra seed mix, which is good also for the first 2-3 weeks of veg. Now I read that has bactericide properties , so it's not good for organic. What else?)
- coco coir (I hate it as a single ingredient and I prefer not to use it, but you guys have the last word)
- Guanokalong Complete Organics, or any individual ingredient from this product, or any product from this company.
- we have available powdered dolomitic lime, epsom salt...
1) Have I missed anything?
2) What to use and in what proportions?
I also wonder if you guys refer to volume or weight. I mean 3 liters of perlit is 3 liters of perlit, but 3 liters of garden compost or EWC depends on how pressed it is.
3) Can you recommend a product that will diversify my microbes as much as possible ? I have 1 year old EWC, but I have a feeling is not enough.
I've read Teaming with microbes and got the general idea. I know how to make tea. I've read all 300 pages from Heisenberg topic when I was DWC-ing.
Thank you for your time, and sorry for my not so perfect english.
hey old boat, looks like you got stuff for the mix in my sig, i do plain water all the way through and nice harvest. All the bags i use say cubic feet but we're ass backwords i guess lol.
Could adjust to something roughly like:
100 liters soil, 50 liters coco, 50 liters perlite, 15 kilos earth worm castings
6 c Bone meal + 6 c pulverized dolomite lime 2-1 Cal/mag ratio
2 c Blood meal + 3 c Kelp meal
The azomite is for micros, great if you can get it but fine without...
That should be simple and have you going good. A nice airy light mix that will help growth to explode.
Can do teas as well if you like but not necessary but they will love it if you do.
Hope it helps! Please let me know if you try. Organicfarmer just did and reported excellent results.
Could adjust to something roughly like:
100 liters soil, 50 liters coco, 50 liters perlite, 15 kilos earth worm castings
6 c Bone meal + 6 c pulverized dolomite lime 2-1 Cal/mag ratio
2 c Blood meal + 3 c Kelp meal
The azomite is for micros, great if you can get it but fine without...
That should be simple and have you going good. A nice airy light mix that will help growth to explode.
Can do teas as well if you like but not necessary but they will love it if you do.
Hope it helps! Please let me know if you try. Organicfarmer just did and reported excellent results.
Hey Tony !
Thanks for the fast replay. I forgot to tell you guys I water from below
Two 30 liters (8 gallons) buckets, one inside the other one. The one inside has a 7cm (3 inch) diameter hole on the center bottom, with the yellow semi-sfere placed inside. The semi-sfere is the bottom part of an “I Don’t Want to Stay Down” Doll , has little holes drilled at the bottom, and it is filled with perlit (100 ml; 3 oz), and than the rest of the bucket filled with the desired soil. The outside bucket has 2 holes, one to pour water throw and the other one shows when the water inside reaches the maximum desired level, and acts as a release of the positive and than negative pressure. 4 liters (≈ 1 gallon) allows me to be away one week at the most thirsty period of the flower, no problem.
Back on topic. Anyone else want to chime in ? Maybe something from my list, without bone and blood meal as I can't find any here... And maybe some beneficials. Thank you again Tony !
Thanks for the fast replay. I forgot to tell you guys I water from below
Two 30 liters (8 gallons) buckets, one inside the other one. The one inside has a 7cm (3 inch) diameter hole on the center bottom, with the yellow semi-sfere placed inside. The semi-sfere is the bottom part of an “I Don’t Want to Stay Down” Doll
, has little holes drilled at the bottom, and it is filled with perlit (100 ml; 3 oz), and than the rest of the bucket filled with the desired soil. The outside bucket has 2 holes, one to pour water throw and the other one shows when the water inside reaches the maximum desired level, and acts as a release of the positive and than negative pressure. 4 liters (≈ 1 gallon) allows me to be away one week at the most thirsty period of the flower, no problem.Back on topic. Anyone else want to chime in ? Maybe something from my list, without bone and blood meal as I can't find any here... And maybe some beneficials. Thank you again Tony !
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[/URL]Hey old boat and welcome to the wild world of living soil.
I would suggest you start here. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=263614 ( sorry x and others don't know how you make a hyper link)
This will get you going. In there is a link to the original ROLS ( recycled living organic soil) thread. That is where the juicey stuff is. If you follow x's recommendation S you will be great.
I would not suggest burn1 recipe. I know he has come a long long way from that initial mix. It is very inbalenced and has been improved upon greatly. He does not recommend that any longer.
If you need any other help give a holler.
The casting should be diverse enough to get going and the forest duff you got will take you places. You got the right ideas now you just need a base.
I would suggest you start here. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=263614 ( sorry x and others don't know how you make a hyper link)
This will get you going. In there is a link to the original ROLS ( recycled living organic soil) thread. That is where the juicey stuff is. If you follow x's recommendation S you will be great.
I would not suggest burn1 recipe. I know he has come a long long way from that initial mix. It is very inbalenced and has been improved upon greatly. He does not recommend that any longer.
If you need any other help give a holler.
The casting should be diverse enough to get going and the forest duff you got will take you places. You got the right ideas now you just need a base.
Boyd Crowder
Teem MiCr0B35
hey vortex - wheres the current burn1 recipes?
I use the lc#2 R1 and its great for a single run water only. however it must be reamended each and every round.
Also, who the fuck is LC anyways?
I use the lc#2 R1 and its great for a single run water only. however it must be reamended each and every round.
Also, who the fuck is LC anyways?
I think he follows more of the standard recipes in the rols thread, a modified cootz or something along thoes lines. He participats else where but I don't follow him much so I couldn't tell you. I have been part of conversations with him and we have all grown past thoes recipes.
I know dolomite lime is not something he reccomend S at all.
I don't know why the beginners thread is still a sticky. So much shitty information in the first 100 pages.
Bring backs the rols thread. Yea the we jerks but the info was sound and we all learned alot.
I know dolomite lime is not something he reccomend S at all.
I don't know why the beginners thread is still a sticky. So much shitty information in the first 100 pages.
Bring backs the rols thread. Yea the we jerks but the info was sound and we all learned alot.
No need to reiterate what's said above, I just wanted to add there are a number of users here that employ Guanokalong products if you do a search of the site (either with forum search or google using the string site:icmag.com to restrict results to IC).
Happy growing
Happy growing
Boyd Crowder
Teem MiCr0B35
im not wading through 100 pages of any thread , lol , i get burnt around page 18 of most all
that said ive gotten through about 15 pages in the rols thread and the only thing I remember out those is that I read them.
the burnone thread is the one I used cause it comes right on with nonsense free recipes, the first page had pretty much everything a beginner needs.
now that Ive been in soil for 6-7 months, things are making more sense, and since everyone needs are different, the options and tools are like a palette of paint and selections of brushes.
So gg4 wants more calcium and phosphorous, and c99 is fine with that cal pho thank you , she just wants more N, well I have the palette to do what each wants on the fly. and thats where burn1's thread has been successful, it can get you going long enough to get you in trouble, and enough is there on the first page to get you right back out of it, if you study it long enough.
that said ive gotten through about 15 pages in the rols thread and the only thing I remember out those is that I read them.
the burnone thread is the one I used cause it comes right on with nonsense free recipes, the first page had pretty much everything a beginner needs.
now that Ive been in soil for 6-7 months, things are making more sense, and since everyone needs are different, the options and tools are like a palette of paint and selections of brushes.
So gg4 wants more calcium and phosphorous, and c99 is fine with that cal pho thank you , she just wants more N, well I have the palette to do what each wants on the fly. and thats where burn1's thread has been successful, it can get you going long enough to get you in trouble, and enough is there on the first page to get you right back out of it, if you study it long enough.
I learned everything I know from Lavender Cowboy and Bongaloid. And oh yeah, some Birds along the way. Three of them. Ever heard of The Three Little Birds?
each one teach one
mrS0ul
Meatball in Residence
Boyd I could not agree more! The first 1/4 of that thread got me to where I am now. Invaluable resource as beginner... and like you say now that you have some experience under your belt you can adjust / experiment / and grow as a certified noob [me too for sure!]
I have just mixed up two versions of Coots [Thx Heady B. and XmobotX] and will be learning with these in my 2nd year of growing with a path to explore ROLS / No Till.
To a master/advanced/seasoned gardener the information may be bad but as I have to 'see it to believe it' I can tell you that thread was an incalculable benefit to this farmer.
In year two I keep 2 of the B1 mixes on hand plus straight base to make adjustments on the fly. I also have a B1 mix where I have replaced Blood Meal w/ Feather Meal for side by sides of water soluble vs non. I have also had marked success recycling B1 [Blood/Bone] for plants that would not respond favorably to the 'original' recipe.
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Boyd Crowder
Teem MiCr0B35
each one teach one
good lookin out heady
Mr Soul: i mixed up a 120ish gals of that lc2r1 and its gotten through nearly four rounds without a proper reamend, if not for fish sauce , this last round would be about tanked out now with 2-3 weeks to go
I studied and studied (just realized this) that wait NO THIS thread and realised i could run straight fish sauce and that was the eureka moment pretty much the whole shit fell into place like a tetris game. i went from a lackluster 4th week fade to a fast rebound and some serious weight packing within a week, i learned the teas are great for flavor and for my herd, but werent enough oomph to fertilize em so I decided to water every time with some 2-4-1 neptunes to go with a tea every week or two. for this round...and fuck its like stupid easy, IC should CHARGE for this thread
i ordered up some craft blend from bas, should be here tomorrow, Ill reamend my 40 or so spare gallons this weekend, with some extra gypsum and ewc, and prolly cut with some rice hulls i need to order for uppotting the next round, and hopefully be back at the water only levels of round one. and i need more fish sauce so will prolly pick up a gal each of the alaska and neptunes, just in case, cause one thing hydro taught me , always have backups.
Heres that craft blend recipe: NOTE: Im NOT A SHILL Its just an experiment for reamending
"With a big workshop full of the best and cleanest soil amendments available I quickly became spoiled and would use all of the Build*Soil ingredients together and in different combinations that aren't available here online.
After discussing re-amending with a buddy and also Nutrient Tea Brewing he mentioned that I should combine every nutrient that we have into a fertilizer pack of the cleanest ingredients for everyone to use.
We did it!
Brew All Around Balanced Nutrient Tea's for
Veg - Flower (1/2 - 1 Cup Per 5 gallon Bucket of Water)
Re-Amend your used Organic Soil at 1-2 Cups Per Cubic Foot
Top Dress at 1/4 - 1 Cup Per Plant.
Ingredients all Equal by Weight:
Acadian Kelp Meal
Ahimsa Neem/Karanja Cake
Alfalfa Meal
CalPhos
Camelina Meal
Crustacean Meal
Fish Meal
3x Fish Bone Meal
Soybean Meal
Sul-Po-Mag (Also Known as K-Mag or Langbeinite
Malted Barley Grains (3 Varieties)
Azomite
Basalt
Gypsum
Oyster Flour
Adding up all of the Approximate NPK values published for these products from the manufacturer and then dividing by the amount of parts we end up with a very nice NPK guesstimate of 3-4-2. Once we get the blend tested we will publish actual results. "
I called up Jeremy, he suggested I add gypsum to reamend since Im getting signs of calpho defs across the room which is about 50 galls of the soil
Im gonna be collecting and trying so much shit this year, im just so excitied I could just shit my pantaloons
Yes organics is more intimidating on the surface, but after working a bunch of 5g buckets and fussing with ph, ppm,gear and gear failure, muss fuss and bother, Id rather be tuned into each girl and let her tell me what she wants, Im not a kashkropper, Im a pothead. Yes it looks like a lot of work collecting all this esoteric shit instead of 2 bottles and some pens, but you can literally do exactly what you want in organics.
Dont want to use unsustainable guanos? no fucking problemo, use some plant based shit like soy/alfalfa
instead! I can see how each piece in the puzzle could influence the results, not on some save da erf hippy shit , just on some like "these worms like eggshells, coffee grinds, apples and asparagus bones just as much as the cigarette butts and motor oil!" shit
mrS0ul
Meatball in Residence
Boyd, if you have a product, PM me please.
For all of you, I have a question:
Even with the most balanced all NPK micro organic mix, I can't help realize that at some very long point in time one element in the soil will be almost extinct. All I have to do is identify the missing element and than apply more of that element?
For all of you, I have a question:
Even with the most balanced all NPK micro organic mix, I can't help realize that at some very long point in time one element in the soil will be almost extinct. All I have to do is identify the missing element and than apply more of that element?
Boyd Crowder
Teem MiCr0B35
I aint seen B1 anywhere on the net since his retirement, Mikell
I don't mean to discredit what has come before or the work done with the recipes afterwards.
Some of them work well, some better then others but not trying to say anyone using these are wrong, its just not sound soil science.
I will stand by the fact I think dolo lime has little use in our container paradigm. Maybe if it is a cheap amendment in a broad acre crop situation and a soil test called for it. Only then.
There are far better Ca amendments with a much nicer Ca:Mg ratio.
Some of them work well, some better then others but not trying to say anyone using these are wrong, its just not sound soil science.
I will stand by the fact I think dolo lime has little use in our container paradigm. Maybe if it is a cheap amendment in a broad acre crop situation and a soil test called for it. Only then.
There are far better Ca amendments with a much nicer Ca:Mg ratio.
