Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[lolryn]

I just made up a batch of soil sunday. I used a slightly modified LC Mix #2 (growstone instead of perlite) with a slightly modified dank.franks amendment mix.

I used this per ~3cf:
1c alfalfa meal
1 3/4c kelp meal
1 3/4c blood meal
1 3/4c bone meal
1c BioLive
1c seabird guano
4tbsp Sul-Po-Mg
1c azomite
3/4c dolomite
3/4c gypsum
3/4c oyster shell flour
1/2tbsp of local made biology that I found to work really well. figured the more the merrier!

mixed it all up, and wet it with molasses and aerated water.

figured I would have to let it sit for 2-3 weeks at least. I checked the bin last night and it was already sweating. I saw there were some dry spots along the side so I figured I might as well mix it up a little more. stuck my hands right in the middle and it was like 90*F in the middle... it blew my mind how quick this soil has started coming alive. I've made other "super soils" and haven't seen that much activity in such a short amount of time! I'm excited to try this recipe out!

Also, for drainage, a trick I like to use as I'm mixing and wetting the soil - I'm mixing in a large like 55gal tub - I like to stick my open hand into the soil and see how much restriction I get. If I can get to the bottom, it's light. If I can't get my hand to the bottom, my soil is probably pretty dense, and adjust from there.

 

[dank.frank]

I was reading that and was like...hmmm...that looks familiar-ish...hahaha!

I'm glad to see people are finding it of use...and more so that people understand what base medium you use is truly flexible - looking forward to seeing your combination with the LC's mixes! Good luck and keep 'em green!!



dank.Frank

 

[Former Guest]

Was using half FFOF and half Golden Turpor (mostly coco) mix for a couple years. The flow on that is really good, pretty much what i have been used too. So when I tried LC mix #1 it didn't have as good of flow of what I have been used too and I kinda got freaked out. Plus the plants were smaller at that point and the root structure wasn't as developed, weren't sucking up as much water per day. At this point its working great (one gallon every other day), once a week or so I will get a fork and till the top of the soil. I mixed the LC#1 mix with peat moss, its working, but peat moss can get kinda mucky/compacted, still not as good of flow as my previous coco mix, everything is going to turn out great though. Next time I make the soil up, I am going to use coco instead of peat moss, and a little bit more perlite or rice hulls. I think that is the ticket. I prefer a little more of a high flow soil. The powdered dolomite lime and worm castings ratios are perfect of course.

I've never used just straight coco but if you liked the results of your FFOF tupur mix, I would use the same ratio of FFOF to coco. all of the LC mixes use peat entirely and it's very hydrophobic and compacts like you've described. adding the coco like the tupur would give you the drainage results you want. so something like 60/40 peat to coco for the soil part of the mix, then you add everything in the correct ratios with the perlite and EWC. in the meantime, use a wettening agent like cocowet or aloe blended in a water using a blender and just put a tiny pool of water around the base of the plant to get the topsoil moist on each container, then go back around and the water will enter the peat much easier.
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?????

I'm adding some coco to my mix next round and I'm on the hunt for a new mix which brings me to the guano based recipe on the first post of the thread where it just is talking about adding it to the soil and not using the tea option.

will using just the two guanos and a tablespoon of kelp really give me everything my plants need? I know I've got the NPK covered but is there significant amounts of calcium, mag, and sulphur in guanos? should I add some sul-po-mag to help my high NP guanos? thanks!

 

[GreeeeN GRassss]

i have been truly inspired be dank frank and marlo in the WOW thread and by other organic growers here, im changing it up from running coco to go organic. im trying to source the products that have been suggested on IC.

i wont be changing for a few weeks to months as ill still be running my coco out till these plants are done but im trying to source the products and hoping to let it cook in that time.

 

[Kozmo]

Dank Frank has been an inspiration to me as well. So stand up. So congenial. Not only a vender and donor but I view as a mentor and an example setter.

I have been going through BuildASoil myself and am confidant with everything they stand for. Check out the Adam Dunn Show Dec. 18, 2014. Nice to hear your voice MM!

 

[mx628]

I'm adding some coco to my mix next round and I'm on the hunt for a new mix which brings me to the guano based recipe on the first post of the thread where it just is talking about adding it to the soil and not using the tea option.

will using just the two guanos and a tablespoon of kelp really give me everything my plants need? I know I've got the NPK covered but is there significant amounts of calcium, mag, and sulphur in guanos? should I add some sul-po-mag to help my high NP guanos? thanks!

If you mix the powdered dolmite lime into your soil at the correct ratio burn one says you won't have any cal/mag, or ph problems. For trace minerals like sulphur ect I recommend azomite. It has like 70 trace minerals or so, including even more cal/mag. I top dressed mine this time but next time I will mix into my soil. Its cheap stuff.

Also, in the guano tea recipe it mentions nothing about cutting nitrogen the last two weeks of flower or so. Is anyone doing that? From my understanding you don't want nitrogen towards the end because it can effect taste and maturity time. You want the fan leaves to be yellowed at the end, makes the plant think the season is over and it puts out max theca and oils. Perhaps just use a high P guano the last couple weeks, and of course the last couple waterings just use worm casting tea. Thoughts?

 

[Luther Burbank]

Sulphur is a micronutrient and not a trace mineral. You're going to want gypsum or elemental sulphur for a source in your soil. Azomite will have only trace amounts.

I am on the fence about reducing N to make a cleaner burn, and also about the role of senescence in quality. It's an appeal to nature to conclude that the best time for harvesting for drug use will be when the season ends. It would be quite a coincidence if the end of season happened to hallmark the best time to get humans high. We've artificially chosen over millenia for high thc production and I do not believe there is a connection between best harvesting time and the natural cycle, other than length of night. What evolutionary advantage could be conferred by pumping out max terpenes or resin at the end of its life cycle? I've not seen any evidence to support it other than old wives' tales from old growers who also swear if you hang the plant upside down the thc concentrates in the tips.

 

[mx628]

Earlier in this thread I was saying I was having drainage problems with the LC #1 mix using peat moss. Found the problem. I mixed up a new batch using pro mix bx from the hydro store, and not the random peat moss home depot had. Draining and getting wet perfectly now when making up new pots. So moral of the story is don't buy that shit from lowes or home depot. Spend the tiny bit of more money and buy pro mix from the hydro store.

 

[Weird]

Sulphur is a micronutrient and not a trace mineral. You're going to want gypsum or elemental sulphur for a source in your soil. Azomite will have only trace amounts.

I am on the fence about reducing N to make a cleaner burn, and also about the role of senescence in quality. It's an appeal to nature to conclude that the best time for harvesting for drug use will be when the season ends. It would be quite a coincidence if the end of season happened to hallmark the best time to get humans high. We've artificially chosen over millenia for high thc production and I do not believe there is a connection between best harvesting time and the natural cycle, other than length of night. What evolutionary advantage could be conferred by pumping out max terpenes or resin at the end of its life cycle? I've not seen any evidence to support it other than old wives' tales from old growers who also swear if you hang the plant upside down the thc concentrates in the tips.

Take a good look at my gallery, I have many examples of faded plants and some examples of greener ones.

Side by side ill take less N every time

as far as resin production increasing at the end, it depends on the strain.

I have grown many sativas that did not start to really produce resin until many, many weeks into flower and I have notice that some hybrids retain this trait.

Easy to cull something if it doesn't perform as you hope it should when it needs a different set of environmentals to express that way, time not withstanding.

Many indicas and their hybrids have resin popping off them from the get go. Doesn't mean superior.

 

[Former Guest]

Earlier in this thread I was saying I was having drainage problems with the LC #1 mix using peat moss. Found the problem. I mixed up a new batch using pro mix bx from the hydro store, and not the random peat moss home depot had. Draining and getting wet perfectly now when making up new pots. So moral of the story is don't buy that shit from lowes or home depot. Spend the tiny bit of more money and buy pro mix from the hydro store.

I have two batches of soil. One is entirely Lakeland peat from Home Depot and the other is 50/50 Home Depot/pro mix hp. The one with promix drains better but I would really like to incorporate some coco or promix BP next time.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Earlier in this thread I was saying I was having drainage problems with the LC #1 mix using peat moss. Found the problem. I mixed up a new batch using pro mix bx from the hydro store, and not the random peat moss home depot had. Draining and getting wet perfectly now when making up new pots. So moral of the story is don't buy that shit from lowes or home depot. Spend the tiny bit of more money and buy pro mix from the hydro store.

Umm Noo! I for one went to organic soil partly to break the chain of going to over-priced, know nothing, push what crap they have Hydro stores!
That "shit from lowes or home depot" is the same shit that is the base for ProMix (even the same company.) Just without some overpriced crap that you are going to add if you're building your own soil anyways.
Dry peat can be a bitch to wet your first time but if you're aware of it not too bad. I'm thinking your problem was more to do with not enough aeration material. I now prefer rice hulls to perlite and used at a 30% by volume ratio and all just grows smoothly....and all this with that "shit from lowes or home depot!"

 

[Weird]

I would like to make a suggestion

read teaming with microbes OR find a suitable source (might be described here) that describes good soil consistency. Soil should have certain properties when you make it, such as retention and expansion, but I suggest you test a new mix in a small container and add a little water, squeeze it and see how it responds.

I like soil that acts like a sponge, and has a bit of expansion and contraction when I squeeze it as well as alot of water movement.

There are people who do a better job of describing how to test it for proper consistency before you put your plants in it.

 

[Former Guest]

Umm Noo! I for one went to organic soil partly to break the chain of going to over-priced, know nothing, push what crap they have Hydro stores!
That "shit from lowes or home depot" is the same shit that is the base for ProMix (even the same company.) Just without some overpriced crap that you are going to add if you're building your own soil anyways.
Dry peat can be a bitch to wet your first time but if you're aware of it not too bad. I'm thinking your problem was more to do with not enough aeration material. I now prefer rice hulls to perlite and used at a 30% by volume ratio and all just grows smoothly....and all this with that "shit from lowes or home depot!"

Well since this is his first grow, I would like to point out he used the recipe the thread started with. There is difference in quality of peat. Since I have both running them side by side with different soil recipes (non intentional) but when storing it I didn't label one of the bins but it was completely obvious the difference. You can see stringy fibers torn and shredded which made me think I may gave grabbed the promix with coir but it was all peat?! While I prefer the promix over the Lakeland from Home Depot, I thought the promix had something extra to justify the price but what makes it different is the processing of the peat. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=242301&page=3

 

[lolryn]

Well since this is his first grow, I would like to point out he used the recipe the thread started with. There is difference in quality of peat. Since I have both running them side by side with different soil recipes (non intentional) but when storing it I didn't label one of the bins but it was completely obvious the difference. You can see stringy fibers torn and shredded which made me think I may gave grabbed the promix with coir but it was all peat?! While I prefer the promix over the Lakeland from Home Depot, I thought the promix had something extra to justify the price but what makes it different is the processing of the peat. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=242301&page=3

The myco and I think wetting agent?

 

[Former Guest]

How long does the wettening agent stay active? I think my smart pots were too small. Plants are fine but I took the plants I just harvested out to recycle the soil and the roots were solid on top. So I tossed the 3 and 5 gallons and put in a 4x4 fabric bed on top of a pallet. I used a tray of hydroton last time under my bed because I thought it would improve aeration underneath the bed but I didn't finish the grow. When I was cleaning out the room to put in containers, underneath the bed, roots had formed and grown into the clay pellets outside the bed. They shouldn't be seen if there is adequate air. Even my small veg containers do it slightly with catch pans.

 

[rasputin]

Well since this is his first grow, I would like to point out he used the recipe the thread started with. There is difference in quality of peat. Since I have both running them side by side with different soil recipes (non intentional) but when storing it I didn't label one of the bins but it was completely obvious the difference. You can see stringy fibers torn and shredded which made me think I may gave grabbed the promix with coir but it was all peat?! While I prefer the promix over the Lakeland from Home Depot, I thought the promix had something extra to justify the price but what makes it different is the processing of the peat. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=242301&page=3

Lakeland? Never heard of it. Try Premier instead. The thread you linked to lays out the case for Premier being a high quality peat moss. Microbeman even has some videos linked to in that thread documenting Premier's microbiology, when most people thought peat moss was inert.

What kind of peat did mx628 use? His description of the water issue with peat sounds like he was letting the top surface dry out too much between waterings. Coco performs much different than peat, I've tried it and use it on some plants in veg with noticeably different results from peat in terms of root development and watering.

The nice thing is coco can be treated like peat in terms of teas and the like. The only thing I haven't done yet with coco is amend it like a peat-based soil mix, mainly because I don't want to water so often in flower which is sort of a hallmark of coco.

Just to be clear, and to back up Midnight Tokar's point, that "shit from Home Depot or Lowes" is good provided you pick the right shit. Premier brand is what you're looking for, it is the peat moss used in ProMix.

 

[Former Guest]

I think we are talking about Lakeland peat bales 3 cuft. It was mentioned several times in some ROLS threads as an okay brand but Alaska peat and premeir was mentioned as much better even being able to add to compost teas? Premier is the same price as Lakeland but you have to order it. I can buy almost four bales for the price of promix and when your building soil for beds.

Mx626, I'm really happy for you and your plants! Glad everything is working out for you and thanks for answering my questions

 

[Luther Burbank]

Weird, I just finished up "the Soul of Soil" and would say it does a good job explaining the basics of soil science and soil structure. I was expecting a bigger book for the price, but it's a nice addition to the rotation of book suggestions.

 

[Weird]

nice never heard of it I will have to check it out

 

[mx628]

Lakeland? Never heard of it. Try Premier instead. The thread you linked to lays out the case for Premier being a high quality peat moss. Microbeman even has some videos linked to in that thread documenting Premier's microbiology, when most people thought peat moss was inert.

What kind of peat did mx628 use? His description of the water issue with peat sounds like he was letting the top surface dry out too much between waterings. Coco performs much different than peat, I've tried it and use it on some plants in veg with noticeably different results from peat in terms of root development and watering.

The nice thing is coco can be treated like peat in terms of teas and the like. The only thing I haven't done yet with coco is amend it like a peat-based soil mix, mainly because I don't want to water so often in flower which is sort of a hallmark of coco.

Just to be clear, and to back up Midnight Tokar's point, that "shit from Home Depot or Lowes" is good provided you pick the right shit. Premier brand is what you're looking for, it is the peat moss used in ProMix.

My first irst soil batch that was impossible to wet was with "Sphagnum Peat Moss", says made in Canada. Was a green/white wrapper and bought at home depot. My second batch was using Pro Mix BX bought at my hydro store and I like the quality, drainage, and wetting way better. There is a difference in quality of peat moss, and it makes a big difference when watering. And watering is something you do a lot lol.

I think we are talking about Lakeland peat bales 3 cuft. It was mentioned several times in some ROLS threads as an okay brand but Alaska peat and premeir was mentioned as much better even being able to add to compost teas? Premier is the same price as Lakeland but you have to order it. I can buy almost four bales for the price of promix and when your building soil for beds.

Mx626, I'm really happy for you and your plants! Glad everything is working out for you and thanks for answering my questions

Sure thing, thank you. Lots to learn, glad to be here.