I think at 100 posts you're finally allowed to edit your posts... I forget though >.<
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Tutorial Organics for Beginners
- Thread starter BurnOne
- Start date
I think at 100 posts you're finally allowed to edit your posts... I forget though >.<
I have a quick question, I'm going with recipe #4 ,3 little birds, I obviously don't need to make LC's mix#1 or#2. I'm using used Sunshine #4, I ran botanicare, The Kind. Can I start seedling in this soil , I've made a tea to start the soils biosphere. I'll give it a week. What do you think? Thanks. SS
sorry, I am a little confused on how some of what you said was worded but let me do my best to give my .2c
If you're using SS#4 re-amended as the recipe listed on top of the tea you used to help kick start things, then I would not recommend putting seedlings in this mixture.
for seedlings I'd use bare naked SS#4 or the used SS#4 that wasn't re-amended. I think the ferts would be a little too overkill for seedlings. once they need to be transplanted from a solo cup(or whatever you're using) to a larger pot, that's when I'd start using the soil you made. From what I gather, letting soil sit longer is usually better. I noticed a slight increase in quality of plants when I started getting down towards the bottom of my soil bin.
That's just me, but I don't use that exact recipe you do... I start fresh every time because space doesn't allow me to store that much soil
Buddyy
Member
Hello i am starting a no till organic living soil setup and I have a question in regards to ideal pot size. I understand that the more space the better but am not convinced on the bed and think would prefer smartpots. Are the 5gal. ones big enough? I have a 4ft x 10ft space and 3 600w hps lights.
So should I buy 18 5gal smart pots or 15 6gal or should I build a wooden bed? I feel a bed would be impractical so would prefer smartpots....any advice please
So should I buy 18 5gal smart pots or 15 6gal or should I build a wooden bed? I feel a bed would be impractical so would prefer smartpots....any advice please
L
Luther Burbank
Beds are nice, but impractical for many people. I'm a fan of 10gal containers these days, but you should have no real problem with 5gal.
there is a paradigm that needs to be addressed because it effected me and I would like to save the learning curve for others.
Traditional, transitional and even many organic methods allow for greater biomass with less rootmass.
This in on contradiction to the evolutionary balance between plant and natural organic living soil.
If you want plants that produce the same biomass as traditional and traditional methodologies you need to give them adequate soil volume.
I transitioned to 10 gallon gropro fabric pots from 5 gallon homer buckets and there are visual differences in soil biology most especially in earth worm populations as well as increase in plant biomass.
I spend decades growing big plants with little root systems, but I had to lose the hydro state of mind because it was not offering a benefit come to living soil.
Traditional, transitional and even many organic methods allow for greater biomass with less rootmass.
This in on contradiction to the evolutionary balance between plant and natural organic living soil.
If you want plants that produce the same biomass as traditional and traditional methodologies you need to give them adequate soil volume.
I transitioned to 10 gallon gropro fabric pots from 5 gallon homer buckets and there are visual differences in soil biology most especially in earth worm populations as well as increase in plant biomass.
I spend decades growing big plants with little root systems, but I had to lose the hydro state of mind because it was not offering a benefit come to living soil.
In this post https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6663823&postcount=4791 I touched on the subject of root formation.
I have no experience with fabric (smart) pots, so do not know how the roots respond to reaching the inside edges. Supposedly there is an auto-root pruning which occurs, although some have reported troubles with dry pockets near the edge.
It would be interesting to get some feedback from several growers on this subject.
I have noted, when growing in plastic containers that just switching from a round shaped pot to a square shaped pot of the same basic size contributed much to the health and increased size of cannabis plants. This is completely anecdotal.
If we try to draw some hypotheses from this observation we can first do the math involved. We suppose that both containers have a width of 10 inches. The surface area of the round pot is 78.5 sq. inches, while the square pot has considerably greater surface area at 100 sq. inches.
Considering the observation that cannabis roots spread out and further consider that the greatest metabolism of basic nutrients occurs close to the surface where there is a greater amount of air for fuel, it does follow that the growth rate and tissue mass of the plant may be increased. (hypothetically of course)
We could, also look at the influence of volume, considering the observation of cannabis roots fully filling containers. Supposing that the round and square shaped containers both have a height/depth of 12 inches, the square shaped container at 1200 cubic inches again far exceeds the round one at 942 cu. inches.
If the case exists that the roots search every available nook and cranny for nutrients, then the increase in size and growth rate observed correlated to the soil/media volume can be validated hypothetically.
It would be interesting to hear any related reports.
Using square shaped containers is not always convenient as they are more difficult to rotate adjacent to each other. However one can certainly pack more (growing media) into an equal space with square shaped containers.
The next jump, of course is the bin, which as has been stated is not for everyone. From my perspective, the bin offers a greater opportunity for an indoor permaculture system utilizing a living soil philosophy.
I have no experience with fabric (smart) pots, so do not know how the roots respond to reaching the inside edges. Supposedly there is an auto-root pruning which occurs, although some have reported troubles with dry pockets near the edge.
It would be interesting to get some feedback from several growers on this subject.
I have noted, when growing in plastic containers that just switching from a round shaped pot to a square shaped pot of the same basic size contributed much to the health and increased size of cannabis plants. This is completely anecdotal.
If we try to draw some hypotheses from this observation we can first do the math involved. We suppose that both containers have a width of 10 inches. The surface area of the round pot is 78.5 sq. inches, while the square pot has considerably greater surface area at 100 sq. inches.
Considering the observation that cannabis roots spread out and further consider that the greatest metabolism of basic nutrients occurs close to the surface where there is a greater amount of air for fuel, it does follow that the growth rate and tissue mass of the plant may be increased. (hypothetically of course)
We could, also look at the influence of volume, considering the observation of cannabis roots fully filling containers. Supposing that the round and square shaped containers both have a height/depth of 12 inches, the square shaped container at 1200 cubic inches again far exceeds the round one at 942 cu. inches.
If the case exists that the roots search every available nook and cranny for nutrients, then the increase in size and growth rate observed correlated to the soil/media volume can be validated hypothetically.
It would be interesting to hear any related reports.
Using square shaped containers is not always convenient as they are more difficult to rotate adjacent to each other. However one can certainly pack more (growing media) into an equal space with square shaped containers.
The next jump, of course is the bin, which as has been stated is not for everyone. From my perspective, the bin offers a greater opportunity for an indoor permaculture system utilizing a living soil philosophy.
bucketswithsoil
support your local surfboard builder...
MM,on point!
I am new to these pots but worked for decades in plastic containers and I feel the reason these pots work for people is that most don't have adequate bottom drainage when using plastic containers (bottoms flush to a non porous surface)
if fabric pots sit on a non porous surface then teh bottom is closed, which I have found counter intuitive.
My best plants have great open drainage at the bottom of the pot, I normally put a pot in a pot so the pot sits suspended and there is some air yet unexposed area underneath the pot. This gives traditional containers proper performance.
The dry pockets are an issue if you don't keep the pots properly watered.
I am looking to put something in between my fabric pots and the tray they sit in so there is more breathing space under the pot. I am thinking of using some hydroton (found some buckets i forgot about in a cranny in the house)
In summary I think plastic pots drained would work as well as the fabric pots as I have them (sitting flat in a tray of approx the same size) and that only when I have the bottom separated with an aggregate will I see if they really outperform.
I made my adjustments to my hard container gardening over the years, optimized as I saw fit and now can only give a detail to give an apples to apples
sometimes i feel a bit long winded
lets be real, when isn't he?
Weird; Would it make sense to place the fabric containers on pallets? They make plastic ones.
rather mimic nature and use a natural aggregate
i used to use rough aggregate to line the bottom of my pots many many moon ago
An outdoor growers perspective
An outdoor growers perspective
MM, always glad to see you posting! I have always wondered about growing in a wide shallow container (even though I grow outside). Most of the big box home improvement stores sell cement mixing tubs that will hold about 10" of medium and are approximately 20" X 30" (it's too late to go outside and measure mine so I'm guessing at this point).
I may have a go with one of these with some holes drilled for drainage to see what happens. I've progressively moved to bigger pots as my plants have been healthier and yielded more and I don't have to water them every day.
It would be interesting to see how the root mass grows in a container like this and how the plant vigor would be affected. I have a number of strains that I know fairly well that would be good candidates for this experiment.
Weird you are not long winded, there is a reason you have the rep that you do. Hydroton should work just fine, but if you don't have it I would think a layer of perlite or vermiculite would work as well
I was taught to plant potted plants with a 1" layer of pea gravel or rocks (whatever was available) in the bottom of the pot. Down here unless you have a ton of shade to protect plants, anything in a pot must be moved at least 2-3 times a year to keep it in a favorable area that gets enough sun but not too much. In summer they fry and in winter they don't get enough sun and at this point I'm talking about veggies and ornamentals, but cannabis is just as sensitive.
Once I figured this out and started having to move the pots around and began using larger pots (10-15 gal) I quickly stopped using stone as it added a ton of weight to the pots and made it very difficult to move them. I upped the perlite in my mix which means more watering, but they also don't drown when it rains for a couple days in a row which is not uncommon.
An outdoor growers perspective
MM, always glad to see you posting! I have always wondered about growing in a wide shallow container (even though I grow outside). Most of the big box home improvement stores sell cement mixing tubs that will hold about 10" of medium and are approximately 20" X 30" (it's too late to go outside and measure mine so I'm guessing at this point).
I may have a go with one of these with some holes drilled for drainage to see what happens. I've progressively moved to bigger pots as my plants have been healthier and yielded more and I don't have to water them every day.
It would be interesting to see how the root mass grows in a container like this and how the plant vigor would be affected. I have a number of strains that I know fairly well that would be good candidates for this experiment.
Weird you are not long winded, there is a reason you have the rep that you do. Hydroton should work just fine, but if you don't have it I would think a layer of perlite or vermiculite would work as well
I was taught to plant potted plants with a 1" layer of pea gravel or rocks (whatever was available) in the bottom of the pot. Down here unless you have a ton of shade to protect plants, anything in a pot must be moved at least 2-3 times a year to keep it in a favorable area that gets enough sun but not too much. In summer they fry and in winter they don't get enough sun and at this point I'm talking about veggies and ornamentals, but cannabis is just as sensitive.
Once I figured this out and started having to move the pots around and began using larger pots (10-15 gal) I quickly stopped using stone as it added a ton of weight to the pots and made it very difficult to move them. I upped the perlite in my mix which means more watering, but they also don't drown when it rains for a couple days in a row which is not uncommon.
Wanted to say thanks burn one. Using soil recipe #1, and then fertilizing with guano tea. Followed everything exactly. Adding liquid karma every other feeding 10cc, and enzyme every other feeding 8cc per gallon as well to clean roots. Azomite for trace minerals, top dressed 3 heaping table spoons for every plant.
My basement has that certain tea "smell" going on but who gives a shit lol. Got a bunch going at different stages of flower and not one single yellow leaf, not one problem. Everything vigorous. Couldn't be more happy, thank you!
My basement has that certain tea "smell" going on but who gives a shit lol. Got a bunch going at different stages of flower and not one single yellow leaf, not one problem. Everything vigorous. Couldn't be more happy, thank you!
Former Guest
Active member
earlier you said that you had some drainage problems with the water sitting on top of the soil. you said you were going to mix up some LC#2 mix to try out. did you end up doing that and if so, which do you prefer?
Was using half FFOF and half Golden Turpor (mostly coco) mix for a couple years. The flow on that is really good, pretty much what i have been used too. So when I tried LC mix #1 it didn't have as good of flow of what I have been used too and I kinda got freaked out. Plus the plants were smaller at that point and the root structure wasn't as developed, weren't sucking up as much water per day. At this point its working great (one gallon every other day), once a week or so I will get a fork and till the top of the soil. I mixed the LC#1 mix with peat moss, its working, but peat moss can get kinda mucky/compacted, still not as good of flow as my previous coco mix, everything is going to turn out great though. Next time I make the soil up, I am going to use coco instead of peat moss, and a little bit more perlite or rice hulls. I think that is the ticket. I prefer a little more of a high flow soil. The powdered dolomite lime and worm castings ratios are perfect of course.
