Organics and Ph.

[swampdank]

congrats to both of you!

i think children are the only pure magic left in the world. makes ya feel like you have purpose for sure. even with the sleepless nights, its damn worth it.

hey Dig, let us know when your second arrives, we can have a collective smoke together. you deserve it!

Suby: a 16 month old huh? how do you find the time to parent all of us? LOL! best of luck my friend, in no time diapers will be a distant memory.

 

[Dignan]

Well, it seems it's not just the soil that's fertile around here.

Thanks fellas... I'm glad to have company. And yes indeed, we'll have to smoke one together one evening to celebrate. (Does IC have a chat room?)

 

[B.C.]

I am by far the worst speller/typer on this whole site

Suby

uhh, hhmmm... ya might wanna rephrase that Suby. lol! I think that title would prolly go ta me!...... Hey Swamp, has it been 6 weeks -YET- ?! LOL.... Dig, congrats man!....... I'm glad ta see this thread has gotten better. There's alot of good info in here, should be a good learning tool for the up and coming growers. That's what it's all about ta me. Take care yall, BC

 

[swampdank]

Thanks fellas... I'm glad to have company. And yes indeed, we'll have to smoke one together one evening to celebrate. (Does IC have a chat room?)

ic does have a chatroom. sometimes i breeze by there. last time i went, gypsy, dg , and bubbleman were chillin. thought that was pretty cool.

 

[swampdank]

Hey Swamp, has it been 6 weeks -YET- ?! LOL....

LOL! 2.7

 

[Suby]

New Sticky

New Sticky

Alright me and my fellow mod CrazyComposer have concluded that this should be a sticky

Let's keep this thread going and fill it with enough information and posts to finally wring the shit out of this : debate:

We will know once and for all where everyone stands, I want to hear from everyone

As always let's be nice even though we disagree

Suby

 

[swampdank]

hey guys, i found this,

hey guys, i found this,

Soil pH is an indication of the alkalinity or acidity of soil. It is based on the measurement of pH, which is based in turn on the concentration of hydrogen ions (H+) in a water or salt solution.

When in balance (pH 7) the soil is said to be neutral. The pH scale covers a continuum ranging from 0 (very acidic) to 14 (very alkaline or basic). It is however uncommon to find soils at either extreme of this range. Under many conditions soils tend to become more acid or alkaline over time if steps are not taken to maintain a balance.

pH is important for the organic gardener for several reasons, including the fact that many plants and soil life forms prefer either acid or alkaline conditions, that some diseases tend to thrive when the soil is alkaline or acidic, and that the pH can affect the availability of nutrients in the soil.

Nutrient availability in relation to soil pH
The majority of food crops prefer a neutral or slightly acidic soil, because the solubility of most nutrients necessary for healthy plant growth is highest at pH 6.3-6.8. Some plants however prefer more acidic (e.g., potatos, strawberries) or alkaline (brassicas) conditions.

When the pH falls below 5.5, most major plant-nutrient minerals (those needed in substantial quantities to promote healthy plant growth include nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), potassium (K), sulfur (S), magnesium (Mg), and calcium (Ca)) and some micronutrients (elements important to plant growth in very small amounts) become insoluble and hence unavailable for uptake by plant roots.

Many cationic (positively charged) nutrients such as zinc (Zn2+), aluminium (Al3+), iron (Fe2+), copper (Cu2+), cobalt (Co2+), and manganese (Mn2+) are soluble and available for uptake by plants below pH 5.0, although their availability can be excessive and thus toxic in more acidic conditions. In more alkaline conditions they are less available, and symptoms of nutrient defficiency may result, including thin plant stems, yellowing (chlorosis) or mottling of leaves, and slow or stunted growth.


if you would like to read further...

organic website

 

[Dignan]

That's a great article, but the question we are essentially discussing (over and over, haha) isn't "does soil pH affect nutrient uptake?" ... But rather does a solution of 5.0 added to a medium that is well-buffered in turn make the pH of that medium drop out of an acceptable range for cannabis?



And the answer is, as far as I can tell, that a well-buffered medium won't be affected enough to worry about... and when it is, a healthy soil food web will correct and stabilize the pH within a few hours.

Dig

 

[B.C.]

Right on Dig!

Right on Dig!

That's what it all boils down to.... Hell yeah Swamp, that article is a great base of information for those jus startin out! later, BC

 

[BurnOne]

Can anyone do a side by side grow?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

What's interesting is that when you try to find information regarding water PH and soil PH is that there is a ton of educational, scientific, government sites with information on how soil affects the PH of water but nothing on the reverse.

The source of the crushed rock that formed a soil is a major contributing factor in a soil's PH. I can see how a rock fragment could affect water in any number of areas (taste, smell, PH, etc.) but the reverse doesn't make much sense.

And in measuring a soil's PH in your garden, farm, etc., when you're dealing with a soil lab or the extension service at a local university, it's customary to take samples from several layers because, once again, the activity of the microbes affect the soil's PH and with different colonies in the 'lasagna strata' you will get slightly different PH readings.

It's also advised to take samples from different locations to get an accurate assessment of the overall PH of the soil being tested.

HTH

CC

 

[swampdank]

ok guys. i see that most of you that i see frequently on this forum believe that we do not have to monitor ph once we have established a good microherd in the soil. this makes me feel better about my methods.

having just chopped another run, i noticed that a few of the plants were less heavy than the others. upon further inspection, i found that the roots of these plants did not penetrate all the way through the soil. this is something i am not used to since i usually have roots circled around the bottom at the chop. i pulled the plants from the medium and most of the dirt remained in the pot (bag really). any ideas as to how i screwed this one up? it seems the roots never grew out. what happened?

 

[Dignan]

What was the soil mix again, swamp?

 

[swampdank]

i transplanted into a mix of 2/3 sunshine #1 then 1/3 mushroom compost, a few cups of bat guano, seabird guano, and a dash of bloodmeal. i put some extra perlite in, just eyeballed it till i got the right looking drainage. i put compost tea on it with a few of the above ingredients. i had 21 plants and they all looked great. but there was three that just looked like they didnt take to the soil. its no biggie but i was just curious, maybe i can fix that so i dont have to scrap anymore plants.

 

[Dignan]

I'm not familiar w/ Sunshine mix because I've never lived in a town where I could get it, but the first thing I would suspect is drainage. Lots and lots of perlite isn't necessary but what a very aerated soil mix will do for you is make it so that the entire soil mass will take moisture quickly and thouroughly. In other words, you avoid dry spots. Sometimes your soil (and the roots that grow through it... because remember that roots will grow such that they often direct the downward flow of water TO one spot and thus AWAY from another spot) will seem like it's moist all the way through, but will have dry spots within it.

If you did happen to have a spot or two in the pots (or many) that were sometimes left dry, the roots that grew there would die/autoprune themselves and the new roots would avoid that spot.

Roots will also avoid areas of the soil that stay too wet.

That's just one idea. But you seem experienced enough to be able to guage whether a soil mix has the proper drainage qualities or not, so it was likely something else inhibiting root growth.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

i transplanted into a mix of 2/3 sunshine #1 then

SwampDank

If you have it available, you may want to try Sunshine Mix #3 or Sunshine Mix #4 - the higher the number the more aeration aggregates added (at least in this product line from Sun Gro Horticulture).

If you can get your hands on "Sunshine Growers Organic Mix" that would be better for a number of reasons.

Sunshine Mixes

HTH

CC

 

[swampdank]

well. i have tried time and again to get the #4 to no avail. i guess they just dont want to sell any of it. i added the extra perlite(not alot) to aerate it a little more. i wonder if i should try a different aggregate in there.

the thing is, i am trying to build up a good supply of recycled soil to not have to buy the sunshine mix anymore. until then, i have to grow a few more crops.

i had an otherwise successful crop. good green stinky sweet nuggets. yield was not bad either. except for these few.

i am trying to get my things together and get some coco. i really want to try this method with the compost i am making.

Dig: thats a good point. i might have had a few dry spots in there. i thought the mix was thourogh but, ya never know. oh well. it was only a few. an isolate incident too so, lets hope it only happened that time.

any ideas on a good substitute for perlite, i would love to hear it. (if its easy to obtain)

 

[Dignan]

Dig: thats a good point. i might have had a few dry spots in there. i thought the mix was thourogh but, ya never know. oh well. it was only a few. an isolate incident too so, lets hope it only happened that time.

any ideas on a good substitute for perlite, i would love to hear it. (if its easy to obtain)

A few 'tings, Mon...

1. I had a grow a few years ago that had calcium and N problems in flower. Turns out I was leaving the pots with dry spots, even though I was watering to 10-20% runoff. Lesson learned: always water twice.

In other words, always water the surface of the soil, let it soak in for a minute, then water the pot thoroughly. THEN... come back and water the pots again 10-30 minutes later.

2. I have always read and been told (and I seem to hear it from people who learn from commercial nursery operations, so Clackamas will probably endorse this one, as well...) that instead of adding 30% perlite to your soil mix, you should add 15% perlite and 15% vermiculite. i.e. replace your perlite with a 50/50 mix of perlite/vermiculite.

I often forget to do this, but when I remember... I must admit it makes a big difference in the texture of the soil. Water retention and drainage seem to be dialed in when you do the fitty/fitty.

3. Substitute for perlite? Rice hulls seem very promising. A couple IC cats here are goofing around with rice hulls as we speak, so you might want to run a quick search.

Dig

 

[Clackamas Coot]

2. I have always read and been told (and I seem to hear it from people who learn from commercial nursery operations, so Clackamas will probably endorse this one, as well...) that instead of adding 30% perlite to your soil mix, you should add 15% perlite and 15% vermiculite. i.e. replace your perlite with a 50/50 mix of perlite/vermiculite.

Dig

Definitely. And some nursery mixes are available with equal parts of vermiculite, perlite and pumice. There are reasons to use any combination depending on what you're growing, size of container and the CeC numbers you may be trying to maintain (to whatever degree that is actually possible).

The reason that I mentioned the 'Sunshine Growers Organic' product is that it has all 3 aeration aggregates which I prefer for all container plants - personal preference. That and the fact that it doesn't contain any 'composted forest products' (a really nice way of describing dirty bark dust on the package).

CC

 

[B.C.]

The more air the better!

The more air the better!

I grow in FF's Happy Frog cut with at least 30% perlite. I've used up to 50% before and had to set up an irrigation system ta keep up during peak transpiration. When I did this the plants ( buds ) grew extremly fast and big. I think increasing the wet dry cycle provided the microherd and roots with much more air than they normally would have had. It was like setting the Rube Goldberg machine that is organics on high! lol Some say organics are slow, I think if there's enough air and you feed with things that are micro critter ready you could match most hydro set ups. It matched tubblers I had going at the same time anyway. Nowa days I've cut back on the amount of perlite I use jus so I don't have ta water so much, plus I've cut down on my plant numbers and don't use irrgation anymore. Bottom line the more air the better for our lil micro buddies...... Swamp, when petemoss is plumb dry it will actually shed water. So when ya put it in the pots don't be afraid ta tamp it down abit. When ya water -esp- the first few times it very important ta do it slowly and evenly. Like Dig mentioned water alil and come back, 2-3 times even. This will give the right amount of compaction. Like a big sponge. After doin this I think yul have better luck with water spreading evenly through out the pot. You could even pour water in a pan under it and let suck it up, but ya need ta water from the top a few times first. Good luck with the next ones. Take care...BC