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Guest
hilarious to me that you want to judge me after I shared my personal experiences and got attacked. but suit yourself
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vonforne
If you had an intellegent answer to the debate it would have been different.
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this is your great PM comeback...
Welcome to my ignore list, your one of only 3 peeps on it.
And BTW this is the second time you poke fun at my gallery, if a picture is worth a 1000 words then it's a good thing I don't have your limited sense of vocabulary because everyone of your responses just proves what I'm saying is true.
Suby
BTW if I was lame the last we interacted it's because your great contribution to this site is a threrad dedicated to you having some ugly pair of cheap hicking boots stolen from under your nose and you blew a gasket getting poked fun at...
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31907
the lorax said:
Welcome to my ignore list, your one of only 3 peeps on it.
And BTW this is the second time you poke fun at my gallery, if a picture is worth a 1000 words then it's a good thing I don't have your limited sense of vocabulary because everyone of your responses just proves what I'm saying is true.
Suby
BTW if I was lame the last we interacted it's because your great contribution to this site is a threrad dedicated to you having some ugly pair of cheap hicking boots stolen from under your nose and you blew a gasket getting poked fun at...
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31907
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Guest
People do great with chem weed. I have seen hydro chem setups that would be anybodys envy.This seems to be a subject that we all feel strongly about.I can see both sides but as for me organics is more suitable because I like MY results also I never have more than 10 plants. I have noticed an unexpected result of this thread "Chem weed people seem to be agressive and closed minded" just read the posts. Maybe this is the best arguement for ORGANICS.
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Guest
my friend i have been aggresive my whole life..it has nothing to do with the chem weed...do you know how foolish that sounds? and as far as organic people...i feel the same way about the close minded part...there is nothing wrong with difference of opinions...my mind is open...i just cant stand the matter of fact people...methodology is the only difference we grow the same plants...peace
Where is the "synthetically-fed plants are better than organic" thread(s) in the other forums? And when that thread popped up, did organic people go over there to defend organics? Just curious.
(serious question)
Seems we all fight with our neighbors when we run out of real enemies to fight with.
(serious question)
Seems we all fight with our neighbors when we run out of real enemies to fight with.
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Guest
This is such a silly conversation, I can understand the want to grow chemy vs. organic and vise versa, but really, lets be realistic.
Chem ferts have only been around for the last ....what...50-60 years?....less?
They are made from petrolium products (mostly) there is your answer as to why that stupid new ad on TV stating that if you buy pot you are contributing to terrorism....big oil.
Before automobiles were common, everyone used horses for transportation and heavy farm work, horseshit was everywhere, and it contains high levels of N P and K, when auto's became commonplace, it fucked the homesteaders and farmers up in a big way.....forever.
Chems are easy to work with, no doubt, I just made my first organic soil mix and tea recipes, I have alot to learn still, but all you've gotta do is a little research and reading like Suby was saying, it doesn't take much to learn the ropes, but you've gotta use your brain.
Short term gain.......chems are great I guess..badabing badaboom.
Long term?........not so great. I have seen many trees and surroundings killed from chemy runoff...how is that good?
If you think chemy pot is sooo good because its stronger or whatever your argument is, thats like saying that crack is more potent that pot......and it is.......but it's bad shit........and you will become mindlessly dependent on the shit, cuz its an easy fix, no brainer.
Now don't get me wrong, I am just now learning how to do it organic, I have been a chemy grower before, but that was because I hadn't yet gained the knowledge of the natural state of things, plant science, anyone here who is defending chem pot should keep an open mind and at least try to go organic before totally writing it off, it's common sense, pollution vs sustainable plant life, good vs evil almost......you like it so much you might as well just smoke the chems and not even grow the nugs, forget dubees, just go straight to crack and smack, they get you much higher and are much more potent!!
Chem ferts have only been around for the last ....what...50-60 years?....less?
They are made from petrolium products (mostly) there is your answer as to why that stupid new ad on TV stating that if you buy pot you are contributing to terrorism....big oil.
Before automobiles were common, everyone used horses for transportation and heavy farm work, horseshit was everywhere, and it contains high levels of N P and K, when auto's became commonplace, it fucked the homesteaders and farmers up in a big way.....forever.
Chems are easy to work with, no doubt, I just made my first organic soil mix and tea recipes, I have alot to learn still, but all you've gotta do is a little research and reading like Suby was saying, it doesn't take much to learn the ropes, but you've gotta use your brain.
Short term gain.......chems are great I guess..badabing badaboom.
Long term?........not so great. I have seen many trees and surroundings killed from chemy runoff...how is that good?
If you think chemy pot is sooo good because its stronger or whatever your argument is, thats like saying that crack is more potent that pot......and it is.......but it's bad shit........and you will become mindlessly dependent on the shit, cuz its an easy fix, no brainer.
Now don't get me wrong, I am just now learning how to do it organic, I have been a chemy grower before, but that was because I hadn't yet gained the knowledge of the natural state of things, plant science, anyone here who is defending chem pot should keep an open mind and at least try to go organic before totally writing it off, it's common sense, pollution vs sustainable plant life, good vs evil almost......you like it so much you might as well just smoke the chems and not even grow the nugs, forget dubees, just go straight to crack and smack, they get you much higher and are much more potent!!
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Relik
I thought I'd never post in this thread again, seeing how the debate is always the same, but what the hell...
Understanding (and accepting the fact that) soil is alive will take you one step closer to organics. Chem users see the soil as a medium, as would be perlite or expanded clayballs or anything you want, but my organic soil is alive.
We organic growers see the soil as it is, a macro-organism consisting of micro-organisms. We are aware that a healthy soil means a healthy plant. Heck, even chem growers know that. As far as I know, they like a healthy soil too. But what is healthy to some may seem unhealthy to others.
For some people, all this life in organic soils is a bad thing. They don't want bugs or bacteria thriving in there, just because they have an unproper idea of their role in soil life. And they'd say we're crazy when we try to grow fungi on our roots. But we're just reproducing nature, growing plants the way it's meant to be, taking an advantage of what's already available in nature. And guess what, it works, better than you would expect.
So if you want to grow plants in just a medium, it's up to you. If you're gonna have a dead soil, you could as well stick a fake plastic plant in it. It will look just as beautiful to you, and will find just what it needs in your soil!
If anyone mentions hydro because I mentioned inert mediums, just take a look at the organic hydro forum. It does wonders.
Peace
Edit: as it has already been stated, understanding soil life and keepin' it thriving takes a bit more skills than just "drop 15ml of this stuff in a gallon and shake it well"...
Understanding (and accepting the fact that) soil is alive will take you one step closer to organics. Chem users see the soil as a medium, as would be perlite or expanded clayballs or anything you want, but my organic soil is alive.
We organic growers see the soil as it is, a macro-organism consisting of micro-organisms. We are aware that a healthy soil means a healthy plant. Heck, even chem growers know that. As far as I know, they like a healthy soil too. But what is healthy to some may seem unhealthy to others.
For some people, all this life in organic soils is a bad thing. They don't want bugs or bacteria thriving in there, just because they have an unproper idea of their role in soil life. And they'd say we're crazy when we try to grow fungi on our roots. But we're just reproducing nature, growing plants the way it's meant to be, taking an advantage of what's already available in nature. And guess what, it works, better than you would expect.
So if you want to grow plants in just a medium, it's up to you. If you're gonna have a dead soil, you could as well stick a fake plastic plant in it. It will look just as beautiful to you, and will find just what it needs in your soil!
If anyone mentions hydro because I mentioned inert mediums, just take a look at the organic hydro forum. It does wonders.
Peace
Edit: as it has already been stated, understanding soil life and keepin' it thriving takes a bit more skills than just "drop 15ml of this stuff in a gallon and shake it well"...
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Guest
this is pointless here comes the circle...i grow hydro indoors and dont kill any trees with my run off...nitrogen...potassium...phosphorous is what the plant consumes...it does not care where its derived from...in most cases organic is just a label for a higher price tag...truth be known lots of supposed organic edibles are treated with pesticides which means they are not organic...but yet sell for double the price...i wonder how many organic growers we have here in definition of organic..i think we have a lot more think they are than there are..how many times you think somebody spilled some petroleum on the very earth you grow out of...if i was you i would test your outdoor soil it mite have oil in it pesticides and all kinds of residues from years and years of applications from farmers before you...painters construction workers you me we all make a booboo on the earth dont act like you dont...or have not...your high horse is shrinking
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Relik
The fact that we are already polluting is in no way an excuse to pollute even more. Some try to MINIMIZE their impact while others don't care.
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vonforne
Relik said:
Good point Relik.
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Guest
no high horse here Unicorn, it's just plain ole common sense.
I also agree that alot of organics are labelled as such but are not, learning how to grow organic is not an ego trip so I can brag to some hippie folk about how pure this shit is, but a step in the right direction. a step away from the industrial pollutants that kill our o so precious home we call earth.
To prove this point that we are all talking about, without all the arguments and same old points that have been discussed many times before, go dig two holes, plant one with organics and use chems on the other.
Chances are, in a few years your chem spot will be non functional and will not produce anymore, but the organics spot, probably will be getting better yeilds and quality with each year.
It's not about bigger better pot, or ego trippin for mr. fancy organic grower hippie or any of that shit, it's about sustainability and leading a long healthy life, would you eat kraft dinner and mcdonalds everyday? you could, but as the years went by you would suffer horribly from malnutrition and probably endup with some sort of cancer.
If I were a body builder, I could use carbo load and steroids and lift my weights and get really big really fast, but what happens after that? it's unsustainable, thats the point. less is more.
And just because I'm new at this doesn't mean I know any less, I'm using my common sense, nature is perfect, it has no flaws.
whats more important to you? making the best choice for everyone involved and benefiting the greater good in the longterm? OR........just gettin the shit done to benefit you? it's your choice. that's why the world is so fucked, bigger, better, more, faster, ...........greed will fuck you in the end.
*end rant*
I also agree that alot of organics are labelled as such but are not, learning how to grow organic is not an ego trip so I can brag to some hippie folk about how pure this shit is, but a step in the right direction. a step away from the industrial pollutants that kill our o so precious home we call earth.
To prove this point that we are all talking about, without all the arguments and same old points that have been discussed many times before, go dig two holes, plant one with organics and use chems on the other.
Chances are, in a few years your chem spot will be non functional and will not produce anymore, but the organics spot, probably will be getting better yeilds and quality with each year.
It's not about bigger better pot, or ego trippin for mr. fancy organic grower hippie or any of that shit, it's about sustainability and leading a long healthy life, would you eat kraft dinner and mcdonalds everyday? you could, but as the years went by you would suffer horribly from malnutrition and probably endup with some sort of cancer.
If I were a body builder, I could use carbo load and steroids and lift my weights and get really big really fast, but what happens after that? it's unsustainable, thats the point. less is more.
And just because I'm new at this doesn't mean I know any less, I'm using my common sense, nature is perfect, it has no flaws.
whats more important to you? making the best choice for everyone involved and benefiting the greater good in the longterm? OR........just gettin the shit done to benefit you? it's your choice. that's why the world is so fucked, bigger, better, more, faster, ...........greed will fuck you in the end.
*end rant*
This is so typical, let's not assume most organic growers are just like chem growers and require everything in a bottle...
We don't, alot of us recycle soil and treat it like our greatest resource, which it is.
We compost it, we ammend it with elements that are not only available in raw form but are cheap and abundant, and we in turn shed the mentalities that a drop in the bucket doesn't count, I refuser to adhere to the defeatest attitudes of a consumerist and careless society.
Everything little things counts.
I respect growers who are conscious of the ressources we have, I respect hydro growers like BigToke for using systems that make the absolute most of chem ferts using addbacks AND capitalizing on a well colonized BioBucket system.
I refuse to buy into hydrostore junkie mentality and get pushed the latest garbage and I refuse to ignore aspects or modern day farming which have seen the land stripped of it's fertility thanks to refusing to accept that mother nature does it best.
Organic farming is naturally pest resistant, it's simple it outcompetes predators, let THAT truth be known.
Making blanket statements about the quality of organic produce and the use of pesticides is dangerous in this forum, alot of us have actual experience with more than just pot in the gardening department...
Suby
We don't, alot of us recycle soil and treat it like our greatest resource, which it is.
We compost it, we ammend it with elements that are not only available in raw form but are cheap and abundant, and we in turn shed the mentalities that a drop in the bucket doesn't count, I refuser to adhere to the defeatest attitudes of a consumerist and careless society.
Everything little things counts.
I respect growers who are conscious of the ressources we have, I respect hydro growers like BigToke for using systems that make the absolute most of chem ferts using addbacks AND capitalizing on a well colonized BioBucket system.
I refuse to buy into hydrostore junkie mentality and get pushed the latest garbage and I refuse to ignore aspects or modern day farming which have seen the land stripped of it's fertility thanks to refusing to accept that mother nature does it best.
Organic farming is naturally pest resistant, it's simple it outcompetes predators, let THAT truth be known.
Making blanket statements about the quality of organic produce and the use of pesticides is dangerous in this forum, alot of us have actual experience with more than just pot in the gardening department...
Suby
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Guest
so if science says my nutrients are ok...and you say they are not...who should i believe? seriously who....when i dont live in one of the largest citys in the world maybe i will have a compost shit maybe even a yard...but until then closet guy who uses chems...and i know they brake down before the run off hits the ocean to kill the coral reef...unlike organic fertilizer's that last a long time and make it to the waterfronts to kill the very reefs (smothering them with abundant algae because of fertilizer nitrogen) that keep the ocean from eroding the land...who is rite....none only opinions were all fools..and we are all alien we destroy...live not in harmony...separated when we are one...and have no respect for each other...much less this planet...human kind is the problem...monopoly game gone wild...will it change not as long as we are pacified...distracted by our own arrogance and shiny things and our separated wishes...selfish destructive dishes are served at every dinner table
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Guest
Hey Unicorn, no one is "attacking" you because of your methods, you have the choice to do with your life and your methods as you wish.
It's also up to you to choose a better way if you think the world is going to hell in a bonfire, we can all see it's pretty close, few people choose to better their surroundings by living differently than the average "sheeple" as I call them, to think for themselves.
The next greatest Electoral candidate or "NEW! Fast! bang! boom!" fert cannot better my life, only I can.
Common sense, morality, education and good judgement fall into your hands alone.
I choose organics because its better for me, and the world.
Nitrogen is naturally in the atmosphere, all the time, it intesifies with thunderstorms.
You know how everything looks greener at the break of a thunderstorm? that is not an illusion, everything was just blasted with nitrogen, rainwater is very high in Nitrogen, you could bottle it up and sell it as "Organic fertilizer"
It's also up to you to choose a better way if you think the world is going to hell in a bonfire, we can all see it's pretty close, few people choose to better their surroundings by living differently than the average "sheeple" as I call them, to think for themselves.
The next greatest Electoral candidate or "NEW! Fast! bang! boom!" fert cannot better my life, only I can.
Common sense, morality, education and good judgement fall into your hands alone.
I choose organics because its better for me, and the world.
Nitrogen is naturally in the atmosphere, all the time, it intesifies with thunderstorms.
You know how everything looks greener at the break of a thunderstorm? that is not an illusion, everything was just blasted with nitrogen, rainwater is very high in Nitrogen, you could bottle it up and sell it as "Organic fertilizer"
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vonforne
Each person has their own way. And for their own reason. My personal choice is 100% organic. thats just me. This debate could go on forever with good points from both sides.
IMO we are all
IMO we are all
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vonforne
Dignan said:We're all pinning the tail on the donkey??? Haha!
It's all good folks. All on the same team.
Dig
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guest123
wow didnt realise this debate was still going on ...
u know something that kinda bugs me about organic ferts , well that is all the ones i buy .. they all say organically based , i havent found one yet that says 100% organic ...
the closest thing i can really get to truely organic , is to feed my garden the chicken manure from chickens that feed from garden scraps and foriage for their feed around the garden surrounds ...
chicken manure is excellent fertalizer ...
im still in a bit of question to unicorns statement of run off to the reefs from organic ferts , i would think they would just break down in the soil , and excess nitrogen is simply eaten by the plants ... i know i can t be bothered wasting money fertalizing more than i need , and cannabis being such a high nitrogen feeder , pretty sure its all good ....
also ,, arent the reefs made from nutrient rich waters ?? run off from rivers etc
in papua new guinea , there are some awesome reefs that feed from the nutrient rich waters due to volcanic activity on the nearby islands , correct me if i am wrong???
u know something that kinda bugs me about organic ferts , well that is all the ones i buy .. they all say organically based , i havent found one yet that says 100% organic ...
the closest thing i can really get to truely organic , is to feed my garden the chicken manure from chickens that feed from garden scraps and foriage for their feed around the garden surrounds ...
chicken manure is excellent fertalizer ...
im still in a bit of question to unicorns statement of run off to the reefs from organic ferts , i would think they would just break down in the soil , and excess nitrogen is simply eaten by the plants ... i know i can t be bothered wasting money fertalizing more than i need , and cannabis being such a high nitrogen feeder , pretty sure its all good ....
also ,, arent the reefs made from nutrient rich waters ?? run off from rivers etc
in papua new guinea , there are some awesome reefs that feed from the nutrient rich waters due to volcanic activity on the nearby islands , correct me if i am wrong???
