Organic Fanatic Collective

[vonforne]

His opinion is that plants roots and the microlife in the soil are specialized to a degree that we don't usually give them credit for. In other words, the roots will seek out the things they want or need and avoid those things in the soil they don't want or can't use.

And to add to this.....what the roots do not seek out or find the fungi will aid in this. So, it will give the soil mixture a complete and through draining of its nutrients.

I have varied my nutrients lately and have noticed a marked difference. I have been using different release times of the N or P respectively. As with the P, I use 75% P guano and 25% Bone meal. With N I use Alfalfa, Guano and composted cow manure. And it is working great. I know, I know......ohhhhh animal manure. but it is Organic and if it promotes things organic then it is fine with me. Also it cost .60 cents a bag because it had a hole in it.

As we all work with different types of things and as long as we share the knowledge with the rest of the community, we will all improve our growing skills and the over all health of our plants.

Good posting again everyone. HaHa.

V

 

[Deft]

Mycology is one of the most important aspects of ecology (and our search for a better way to grow) other than botany IMO. Its also one of the most overlooked except by a few fungal prophets preaching its wonders, I think its because its A) not the pretty fuzzy side of natural life cycles, its the down and dirty... and B) the vast vast vast majority of fungi are out of sight and buried, only emerging to give their spores mobility in some cases.

The most fun I have had in higher education has been going out in the woods and looking for shrooms of all kinds with my mycologist professor.. I was very suprised at the diversity we found in what many people would see as an uninteresting hemlock dominated temprate forest.

 

[muddy waters]

Hello all, nice to see the discussion continuing here.

I have been thinking a lot about my growing methods and after more than two years of growing organically with homemade substrate and mostly homemade fertilizers in containers, I am weighing my methods and their productivity against other hypothetical arrangements...

So if it's not out of line to open up the discussion a little... I thought here would make a good place to have it...

My criteria for a good system:
-Produces healthy plants and minimal mess in an urban apt
-Reasonable yields
-Economical
-As close to zero emissions as possible (meaning recycling the substrate, as little nute packaging as possible, no big nute dumps)
-Locally sourced materials

My current system, more or less
-256w mixed spec T8 & 150w mixed spec CFL
-substrate: worm castings/sand mixture with vermiculite and sometimes coco fiber added, fertilized with a little dolomite lime and bone meal
-liquid fertilizers: aerated castings tea, fish tank water, kelp tea, comfrey tea, chamomile tea, kitchen waste water
-traditional container-with-saucer, top watered method

Now... what I'm thinking of trying, probably in the next 2-3 months after all the current stuff is finished and I deborg the bitch, is something radically different. Basically, I was inspired reading about "Hempy buckets" and passive hydroculture to try to go with a more homogenous, inert substrate that could be more easily rinsed and re-used, and a different container style incorporating a res inside the container.

(Hempy buckets can be easily explained as container gardening, just with the drainage hole(s) 2" up the side of the container, rather than at the bottom, creating a 2" reservoir of nutrient solution... Hempy's method calls for a perlite-vermiculite mix, which I don't have access to, so I plan to substitute expanded clay and modify the container design accordingly.)

So now, using only expanded clay, what I intend to do instead of mixing substrate on a monthly basis, is produce a liquid fert concentrate based on fermented urine with some additives in an attempt to create a proper nutrient profile for cannabis. I plan to produce this in a large 5L plastic bottle with top, safely stowed away from sensitive noses and eyes, and after a given time period fermenting, I will strain the concoction and funnel it into smaller, well-washed .75L bottles that will be stored in the refrigerator for something like 2-4 weeks. I anticipate having a monthly routine to produce the all purpose nutrient solution, collecting the pee over a day or two or three, then straining and bottling it, and a weekly routine diluting it. Watering every 2-3 days or less ideally. I want to have it in small, clean bottles to avoid some of the grossness factor, make spills less likely, and be able to easily mix up a week's batch in a couple of 2L bottles.

So I invite any and all comments, observations, recommendations... I plan to develop this idea into more concrete terms, especially the nute recipe and likely dilution ratios, in the near future. For now I'm leaving it here...

 

[Suby]

Muddy if anybody can pull it off you can and OF COURSE this id a good place to discuss this, in fact it's arguably the only place you can discuss this lol.

I've read about the type of setup you are running, I would like to point something out if I could.
If the bottom of the container acts like a reservoir hydroclay could work against you, his mix describes 50% vermiculite which will wick moisture and fertilizer to the top of the container, I have not noticed any sugnificant wicking with hydrocaly, if this is a top feed system then disregard this statement completely.

I always come back to a soil based medium, I've tried different things with hydro organics and to be blunt it's been a total disaster when flowering occurs, I've run a few hydro systems with teas and other McGuiverisms to no avail, I usually ended up with pythium in the system, Damn Borg!!!

Keep us in the loop, I'm anxious to see it put together.
Rice Husks might make for a nice medium after catching up on some reading.

As far as pelletized vs. not I still say crushed is better.
I think pockets in the soil are of no benefit to the soil when applied to a 5gallon container, beside what might look like powder to us might seem like a giant boulder to bacteria and fungi, a pocket to us might be alot more to the soil biology.

It has alot to do with content, are the right ingredients in the right proportions available at the right time.
I'm glad fungi are now a topic of discussion, I'm always about sharing knowledge and getting the community's opinion on stuff.

Subster

 

[Devilock]

Great Thread suby. I have a lot of reading to do. I just use guanos atm buts its whats worked the best for me so far. Hope this is the right place to post this. lol

Organic Powdery Mildew Control

(old post)
Neem oil is suppose to keep it under control, which it does wonderfully. I noticed it killed it on the leaves to. I just sprayed mine with neem oil once so far and i haven't seen it on any of my plants for a couple weeks now. Ive also tried baking soda mixed with water and sprayed on, you can do the same with milk. The baking soda fucks up the leaves though. Ive found the neem oil to work the best so far. Heres some recipes from a HEADS MAGAZINE. Haven't tried em all though so be careful you don't fuck up your plants.

Credit to DAVID STRANGE for these recipes.

Baking Soda: (doesn't say how much water to mix with)
-Mix about 1/2 tsp. of baking soda,
-A few drops of dish soap (wetting agent)
-Many recipes call for a tsp of vegetable oil. Shake it up and spray the plants. The baking soda leaves an alkaline residue on the leaves and needs to be washed off afterwards.

Milk:
-Mix at a ratio of 1:8 or 1:4 with water
-Skim milk is fine
-Spray every 4 days to a week depending on the ratio. Milk contains potassium phosphate, which helps to boost a plants immune system and of course, calcium. It helps kill or control many common fungi including powdery mildew and Botrytis, and also controls the spread of black spot and rust.

Neem Oil:
-Mix 1 tsp per liter of water
-Water should be luke warm or it will clog your sprayer
-Spray every week or so depending on how strong you mix it. Neem Oil comes from pressed indian neem tree nuts. It is known to kill mildew by basically choking it and collapsing cell walls. Many growers also use it as effective control of spider mites and say it makes plants a dark healthy looking, waxy green.

Sulfur:
-Mix many commercially available choices
-Follow ratios on package
-Must leave 7-14 days between sprays
Sulfur is one of the preferred methods of many growers, but is only effective if applied before symptoms can be seen. It is used more as a preventative treatment.

Apple Cider Vinegar:
-Mix 3 tablespoons of apple cider to 1gal of water
-Spray in the morning for best results. Apple cider vinegar is supposed to be able to treat mildew, leaf spot, and scab, but ive never tried it so i can't speak for its effectiveness.

Corn and Garlic Spray:
-Mix corn leaves
-Clematis leaves
-Paper-like garlic leaves
-Water
-Mix it up in a blender and let it soak for an hr
-Strain and spray. Part of the reason for garlics effectiveness is its high sulfur content. Garlic is also good for spider mite control.


Horseradish:
-Mix 1 cup of roots in food processor
-16 ounces of water
-Let is soak for 24 hrs
-Strain and spray. Horseradish has a large amount of calcium, magnesium, and vitamin c. This also helps with minor corrections in deficiencies of these micronutrients, which helps the plants immune system.

Chamomile:
-Mix 2 cups of boiling water
-1/4 cup of chamomile blossoms
-Steep until cool
-Strain and spray
This concoction should be used for that white fuzzy crap that grows on soil if it stays too moist. Chamomile also contains calcium and potash but it has sulfur too. This likely what gives it its fungus fighting powers.

Peace and *bong* :friends:

 

[muddy waters]

Nice recipes, Devilock... I might try that corn and garlic one. Thanks.

Suby... thanks for the encouragement bro... I'm working on a longer continuation of that post with more specifics, but in the mean time, let me address what you've written. Man I know that feeling of security that soil brings. I've run back a couple times, myself.

I am of course not convinced that my new setup will be better than my current one, or even practical at all. But I've just been cleaning up too much soil lately, and despite trying my best to dial in the substrate and nute levels in order to use minimal container size for the single cola plants I'm growing, I am pretty convinced at this point that for yields sake I need to up the container size, and the thought of adding even more soil/substrate elements to the routine... having to store and recycle more humus, sand, vermiculite, coco... Well... first I think I'm gonna try to see of clay can work for me. It will be top-watered, yes, but I am still concerned about its wicking capabilities (or lack thereof). I will also be using a slightly smaller sized clay ball than the normal ones sold around here, and finally I am expecting the heat of the grow room lights to cause the solution in the reservoir to evaporate, which should humidify the middle portion of the substrate as well.

Next post will detail the concentrate nutrient solution I'm planning.

 

[vonforne]

Nice work Muddy. Look forward to the finished and tested product. I have read before where you are an advocate of urine as a fertilizer source.

Well gang we have fungus among us. I started up the fungus culture a few days ago. I have some beginning to form on the surface but I did add too much water and the oatmeal isn't fuzzing up the the coffee grounds on top are really getting to work.

Here is a picture of the culture in the container.






I have placed the fungi in one container and I'm going to do a few others tonight. The sample I placed in the top of the container just below the surface of the soil is growing very well right now. It has been in there for less than 24 hours and I noticed that it has grown over night.









I will keep everyone updated on this and I;m planning on starting another culture with some additional items in the next couple of days.

Dig, I'm about ready for the Dolomite showdown 2007. I have transplanted a few clones and when they have a good root established I will transplant into a bigger container that will be with each type of lime respectively.

Thats all for now. Has anyone else been working with the fungi, if so post up those pictures.

V

 

[Suby]

Vman you are a man of action and a great mentor.


S

 

[vonforne]

Vman you are a man of action and a great mentor.


S

Thank you very much Master Suby. (Von bows head in respect)

I like to help the community out as much as possible.

V

 

[jaykush]

ive cultured micros before from the local mountains, im pretty sure i posted the method i used in the early OFC. definitely the best idea to do when guerrilla growing, adding the local micros who have adapted to the environment over years and years really helps for some killer plants.

that first pic looks like shit though....seriously haha

 

[vonforne]

I know JK, my camera skills are not the best.

V

LOL, now I know which picture you are talking about....the pot of goo. HaHa

 

[ThaiPhoon]

Hello,

Here is a shot of the fungus that grows in me worms bin! I think they must be growing on the coffee grounds/filters. I bury most of the food for the worms, and sprinkle some on top. I cover the bed with damp newspaper to help keep things cool.



I am testing to see how well water is held in this new mix of equal parts by volume of compost/ewc mix(homemade):coco:rice hulls



So far things look good. I will be transplanting a few plants into this mix this weekend! (after one week of settling)

Peace

 

[Guest]

Whut up Ofc, question... if you got a organic soil such as, power flower a organic soil with bat guano, cottem seed meal feather meal, rock phosphate,
bone meal etc...... if i choose to add alfalfa meal, ewc,kealp meal do i have to lest it sit for 2 weeks or so or can i just use the soil right away since the majority of the ingredents were allready in the soil right out the bag??

 

[vonforne]

Whut up Ofc, question... if you got a organic soil such as, power flower a organic soil with bat guano, cottem seed meal feather meal, rock phosphate,
bone meal etc...... if i choose to add alfalfa meal, ewc,kealp meal do i have to lest it sit for 2 weeks or so or can i just use the soil right away since the majority of the ingredents were allready in the soil right out the bag??

High BC, You could do that. that way as the plants use up the readily available nutrients already in the soil the new amendments will then become available to the plants for uptake. I would amend lightly as not to burn the plants. The alfalfa will become available first.

On another note you could feed with teas or top dress at a later date to be sure you do not burn them.

BTW, I have heard good things of the PF soil. How do you like it?

V

 

[Guest]

Hey Von, thanks for the tip, the, PF is prety good by itself but it lacks N in the mixture and ewc. it is a very rich P mix though.... kinda pricey$$$ 15$ for 1.5cf.
oh yeah.. i didnt have any time to buy d.lime to put in the mix whats a good way of getting Magnisium? i was thinking of top dressing with the lime when i get it. can i get it's presents to stay in the soil after a few top dresses or will one do the trick?

By the way... nice looking fungus pic's

 

[vonforne]

Hey Von, thanks for the tip, the, PF is prety good by itself but it lacks N in the mixture and ewc. it is a very rich P mix though.... kinda pricey$$$ 15$ for 1.5cf.
oh yeah.. i didnt have any time to buy d.lime to put in the mix whats a good way of getting Magnisium? i was thinking of top dressing with the lime when i get it. can i get it's presents to stay in the soil after a few top dresses or will one do the trick?

By the way... nice looking fungus pic's

Power Flower Soil
This premier organic potting soil contains black peat moss, bat guano, marinebird guano, composted chicken manure, bone meal, rock phosphate and fossilized kelp.

The N source looks pretty high. the only thing it looks like it missing is EWC and some Dolomite lime.

You can get the pellet dolomite at Home Depot for 2.00 and run it through a coffee grinder or blender.

V

 

[vonforne]

Here is a fungal tea I have been working on. It is Indo guano @ 2 TBS per gallon, some raw Loenardite, EWC, a little Mexican guano @ 2 TBS for the whole mix and molasses with some fungi added from my culture.

The girls are digging it.

V

 

[judas cohen]

Von: How much leonardite/gal in your tea? Directions on mine (micronized, 65% humic acid derived from shale) says for vegetables: "in soil, 1 tbls/100 sq ft; foliar, 4tbls/gal of water." Seems like a lot for water/tea compared to mixing in soil. Just wondering......?

I checked your link to "Rich Earth", but it only gives application rates for soil.

BTW, very nice contribution to this thread and healthy plant pictures in all your threads. Your efforts are much appreciated and inspiring!

 

[Stoney Bologna]

Hi OFC,

I'm tired of using seedling starter mix for my seedlings because I've noticed poor root development when growing seedlings in Scott's seedling mix.

I'm thinking about using my normal soiless mix without the NPK conditioners for my seedlings. So that would just be peat, perlite, compost, and d lime.

Will this mix work for seedlings? Maybe I should go light on the compost and d lime?

Thanks and Peace

 

[jaykush]

stoney B perlite and compost is good enough for seedlings. 1:1 ratio about keep moist with plain water. you could add some peat i guess.