Online Landrace Seed Sourcing Archive

[LandraceJunkie]

These are the hybrids i have in mind i am about synergy I've put immense amount of thought into these combos and have changed the list 1000's of times..

Ok, you stroke a chord with that word! For me, synergy is probably one of the most fascinating thing about cannabis!

I'm going to go off on a tangent for a bit. Few years ago I was fascinated about perfumes. There are commercial synthetic ones, called 'designer perfumes' because they're usually manufactured by clothing designing companies (like Tom Ford) and then, there's the rest of perfumes like 'niche' and 'artisanal'. The latter is basically the best category, perfumes made by very talented people from the best natural ingredients (some of which are coincidentally found in the same geographical area of the best NLDs, South East Asia).
Usually a trained nose could identify most of the time, most of the ingredients used in the mixture. An 'accord' is defined as being many individuals scents that mix into a completely different and new scent. What is considered to be a 'perfect accord' is when the scents combine in such a manner to the point of the new scent that has been created is so well blended and far from the original ingredients and so unique that even a trained nose could not recognise the ingredients used. That to me would be 'synergistic'.

I think this resembles quite a bit with cannabis, in terms of blending genepools. There are crosses where you can easily identify each trait and figure out which parent or grandparent that particular trait comes from. But every once in a while magic happens, you get this synergistic blend that creates a progeny or a phenotype that is utterly unique and sometimes you can't even recognise the parents' trait, not only that but the progeny is better than each of the parents! Those are the special ones. And just like in perfumery, those synergistic blends don't really happen because of the talent of the breeder, but it's sheer luck most of the time!

I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. Is this the kind of synergy you're talking about? Or you had a different sense of the word in mind?

 

[acespicoli]

@Verdant Whisperer I have to admit I find your lists and the way you are framing it quite intriguing. I haven't got to the chemistry side of cannabis just yet and I don't know much about terpenes and cannabinoids.
How do you classify the terpenes of each strain? You get hints from what they smell like, then infer the most probable combination of the terpenes and then further infer the effects of those combinations? Or is it rather more complex than that (like you maybe have access to some lab equipment and actually test their chemical compounds)?

This is on point, very interesting that you follow the growing environment.
Phenotype
Genotype
Chemotype
Ecotype

• Adaptation
• Speciation

Nice thread @Verdant Whisperer thanks for sharing

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Ok, you stroke a chord with that word! For me, synergy is probably one of the most fascinating thing about cannabis!

I'm going to go off on a tangent for a bit. Few years ago I was fascinated about perfumes. There are commercial synthetic ones, called 'designer perfumes' because they're usually manufactured by clothing designing companies (like Tom Ford) and then, there's the rest of perfumes like 'niche' and 'artisanal'. The latter is basically the best category, perfumes made by very talented people from the best natural ingredients (some of which are coincidentally found in the same geographical area of the best NLDs, South East Asia).
Usually a trained nose could identify most of the time, most of the ingredients used in the mixture. An 'accord' is defined as being many individuals scents that mix into a completely different and new scent. What is considered to be a 'perfect accord' is when the scents combine in such a manner to the point of the new scent that has been created is so well blended and far from the original ingredients and so unique that even a trained nose could not recognise the ingredients used. That to me would be 'synergistic'.

I think this resembles quite a bit with cannabis, in terms of blending genepools. There are crosses where you can easily identify each trait and figure out which parent or grandparent that particular trait comes from. But every once in a while magic happens, you get this synergistic blend that creates a progeny or a phenotype that is utterly unique and sometimes you can't even recognise the parents' trait, not only that but the progeny is better than each of the parents! Those are the special ones. And just like in perfumery, those synergistic blends don't really happen because of the talent of the breeder, but it's sheer luck most of the time!

I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. Is this the kind of synergy you're talking about? Or you had a different sense of the word in mind?

WE are on the same page, synergy as in they blend flawlessly enhancing the orginal perfume without taking away from its essence. they share similiar effects, flavors and profiles, not competing with each other for the spotlight, forming a balanced duet.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

This is on point, very interesting that you follow the growing environment.
Phenotype
Genotype
Chemotype
Ecotype

• Adaptation
• Speciation

Nice thread @Verdant Whisperer thanks for sharing

As well the list of hybrids was chosen with my climate and growing conditions in mind, and some of the strains are grown during diferent times of the year the short season crops are started later so they dont finish in the rains and ussualy grow into nice little 2-3ft tall plants. the indicas and hybrids grow about a foot but will finish okay int he dry sesaon in my tropical highlands climate that doesnt get too hot.

 

[LandraceJunkie]

Oh boy! This is such a cool thread! Glad I found it.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

. And just like in perfumery, those synergistic blends don't really happen because of the talent of the breeder, but it's sheer luck most of the time!

I have to agree that my outlook and style is unique due to my education from cannabis being one of creativity and discovery, I go for what makes sense, and the idea of synergy and crafting strains for your environment that will thirve with the profile and effects you like is the idea. i dont have time to waste trying to get lucky, this is a big investment in my life , you live once and each grow i a memory and special part of our life, and time and i want to get things right from the startt with proper research and though. not everything works out always but its more likely to workout is you have a logical hypothesis based on understandings than just trying to get lucky and think it will work. its complex my perspective to combingin the landraces. I am glad you guys find it unique and it makes me happy to have such interest and positive feedback. and if anyone has a question about a cross for a specific location and effect/flavors i enjoy being a match-maker. I intalliy made this list for myself, to compare landraces, then wanted to share it bcause it was alot of work and i thought others would appreciat it.

 

[LandraceJunkie]

I have to agree that my outlook and style is unique due to my education from cannabis being one of creativity and discovery, I go for what makes sense, and the idea of synergy and crafting strains for your environment that will thirve with the profile and effects you like is the idea. i dont have time to waste trying to get lucky, this is a big investment in my life , you live once and each grow i a memory and special part of our life, and time and i want to get things right from the startt with proper research and though. not everything works out always but its more likely to workout is you have a logical hypothesis based on understandings than just trying to get lucky and think it will work. its complex my perspective to combingin the landraces. I am glad you guys find it unique and it makes me happy to have such interest and positive feedback. and if anyone has a question about a cross for a specific location and effect/flavors i enjoy being a match-maker. I intalliy made this list for myself, to compare landraces, then wanted to share it bcause it was alot of work and i thought others would appreciat it.

Absolutely! Being educated, informed and intentional does increase one's chances (sometimes by A LOT).
I ment that statistically! Most of breeders are not doing that, and that is reflected in the fact that most of the famous hybrids were the result of happy accidents.
Playing with that synergy and being intentional about it is definitely extremely difficult (one of the many reasons I am focused solely on preservation and I wouldn't even dream about breeding).
That is not to say there aren't any good breeders and everything is an accident. Luther Burbank and Nevil were up to something, no one can be THAT lucky!

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Absolutely! Being educated, informed and intentional does increase one's chances (sometimes by A LOT).
I ment that statistically! Most of breeders are not doing that, and that is reflected in the fact that most of the famous hybrids were the result of happy accidents.
Playing with that synergy and being intentional about it is definitely extremely difficult (one of the many reasons I am focused solely on preservation and I wouldn't even dream about breeding).
That is not to say there aren't any good breeders and everything is an accident. Luther Burbank and Nevil were up to something, no one can be THAT lucky!

I am solely focused on preservation mostly as well, <3 these are hybridss i can make while preserving the strains as well by mixing in f1 female donors into the reproductions so i can kilk 2 birds with one stone, preserve the landraces and make desirable f1's that are acclimated for the locals to grow sin-semilla.

 

[LandraceJunkie]

I am solely focused on preservation mostly as well, <3 these are hybridss i can make while preserving the strains as well by mixing in f1 female donors into the reproductions so i can kilk 2 birds with one stone, preserve the landraces and make desirable f1's that are acclimated for the locals to grow sin-semilla.

Well I guess the joke's on me then! I didn't want to even consider breeding, because, well, I wasn't willing to put in the work (or at least THAT work). Problem with that is, you can't really be a good preservationist if you know nothing about breeding. Preservation IS breeding!

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Understanding terpenes and their relationship to growing conditions.

Main Terpenes and Their Roles in Cannabis Plants: A Breeding Approach To explain my breeding style, I focus on the core terpenes and how they relate to the plant’s environment. By leveraging these factors, I aim to enhance synergistic breeding for specific effects. Here’s how I break it down...

www.icmag.com

This comment has turned into its own thread, if any1 is interested.

 

[LandraceJunkie]

@Verdant Whisperer wow, that's as detailed of an answer as one could get! Thank you for such a feedback, brother!
It will take some time for me to assimilate all this info, it's really helpful!
If I want to go into more depth regarding this, are there any particular sources that I can access, that delves into Terpene subject and is structured (has most of the information in one place - like a book), or do you recon this kind of information is rather scattered on the Internet and I have to search for it in a more intentional way?
Thank you!

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

@Verdant Whisperer wow, that's as detailed of an answer as one could get! Thank you for such a feedback, brother!
It will take some time for me to assimilate all this info, it's really helpful!
If I want to go into more depth regarding this, are there any particular sources that I can access, that delves into Terpene subject and is structured (has most of the information in one place - like a book), or do you recon this kind of information is rather scattered on the Internet and I have to search for it in a more intentional way?
Thank you!

To be honest it took criticial thinking and comparing knowledge from alot of different sources as well as chatting with the ai, to figure out details. but its all the research i've put into landraces mostly. i've seen for example all super high elevation sativas are predominantly have high levels of terpinolene, or all strains from equator in full sun have limonene, its more looking for patterns and investigating into them and looking for logical reasoning and patterns. but unless someone knows about all the landraces its hard to see the patterns. I don't think these is anywhere online where youll find this information like this other than this thread. The information i posted i believe to be true, but some of it could be wrong just making a educated guess mostly. not saying this information is 100% factual even though it makes sense to me. Chatgpt is trained wel with terpenes now, i upgraded to premium for a month to do this research on terpenes but its a good place to have conversations, you just have to be on point the chat confuses ideas and makes mistakes alot.

 

[LandraceJunkie]

To be honest it took criticial thinking and comparing knowledge from alot of different sources as well as chatting with the ai, to figure out details. but its all the research i've put into landraces mostly. i've seen for example all super high elevation sativas are predominantly have high levels of terpinolene, or all strains from equator in full sun have limonene, its more looking for patterns and investigating into them and looking for logical reasoning and patterns. but unless someone knows about all the landraces its hard to see the patterns. I don't think these is anywhere online where youll find this information like this other than this thread. The information i posted i believe to be true, but some of it could be wrong just making a educated guess mostly. not saying this information is 100% factual even though it makes sense to me. Chatgpt is trained wel with terpenes now, i upgraded to premium for a month to do this research on terpenes but its a good place to have conversations, you just have to be on point the chat confuses ideas and makes mistakes alot.

Pattern recognition, yes. That's exactly how I would've summed it up. Makes sense. I really have to get to learn how to use one of them AI's for sure. Again, glad I found this thread!

 

[Kidete]

Main Terpenes and Their Roles in Cannabis Plants: A Breeding Approach​

To explain my breeding style, I focus on the core terpenes and how they relate to the plant’s environment. By leveraging these factors, I aim to enhance synergistic breeding for specific effects. Here’s how I break it down:

---

Understanding Terpenes and Their Roles in Plants​

Terpenes are vital to cannabis plants, influencing aroma, flavor, defense, and environmental adaptation. Each terpene dominates specific strains due to environmental pressures, helping the plant survive and thrive in various conditions.

---

Environmental and Soil Influence on Terpenes​

Different climates and soil types directly affect terpene production in cannabis. By understanding why certain terpenes dominate in specific regions, we can strategically breed plants with desired terpene profiles.

---

Terpene Profile Groups​

By grouping landraces based on their dominant-to-tertiary terpene profiles, we can explore the relationship between a strain’s terroir (climate and environment) and its resulting terpene makeup.

---

Synergistic Breeding for Desired Effects​

When breeding for specific terpene outcomes, analyzing terpene profiles and replicating the environmental conditions that produce those outcomes enables us to breed with purpose. This allows for specific effects in F1 hybrids without relying on luck.

---

Core Terpenes: Roles and Environmental Associations​

UV Protection: Terpenes and Their Environmental Roles​

Plants produce terpenes to protect themselves from harmful UV radiation. Two key terpenes involved in this process are limonene and nerol:

• Limonene:
  • Found in warm climates with high UV exposure.
  • Acts as a direct UV shield.
  • Suited for sunny, hot environments.
  • Provides insect-repellent and antioxidant properties.
• Nerol:
  • Found in cooler climates with fluctuating temperatures.
  • Provides UV protection and cold stress resilience.
  • Ideal for humid environments with fungal risks.
  • Offers antifungal and antibacterial benefits.

---

Alpha-Pinene: Humidity Shield​

• Role: Alpha-pinene acts as a humidity shield, preventing excessive moisture absorption.
• How it works: Forms a protective layer on the plant’s surface, reducing mold and mildew risks while aiding growth in humid environments.

---

Beta-Pinene: Humidity Aid​

• Role: Beta-pinene helps plants in drier environments by aiding moisture absorption.
• How it works: It supports plants in arid regions by retaining moisture and promoting hydration.

---

Terpinolene and Ocimene: Altitude-Dependent Terpenes​

These terpenes are adapted to specific altitudes and moisture levels:

• Terpinolene:
  • More concentrated in high-altitude, dry environments.
  • Offers UV protection and helps with cold stress and insect repelling.
• Ocimene:
  • More concentrated in low-altitude, wetter environments.
  • Helps manage humidity and provides antifungal and insect-repellent properties.

---

Myrcene and Its Relationship with Latitude and Light​

Myrcene plays a major role in how cannabis plants respond to latitude and light cycles:

• Myrcene and Latitude:
  Strains grown further from the equator tend to have higher myrcene concentrations due to greater light variability and seasonal changes.
• Myrcene in Indoor Growth:
  Plants grown indoors under controlled light cycles also show increased myrcene production due to the regulated light changes.

---

Beta-Caryophyllene (BCP): Growth Regulator in Low-Light Environments​

Beta-Caryophyllene (BCP) helps regulate growth, particularly in low-light conditions. It conserves energy, ensuring the plant uses its resources efficiently:

• In Low-Light: BCP helps the plant slow its growth and focus on survival rather than rapid expansion.
• Sunlight Availability: BCP increases in low-sunlight environments, resulting in smaller, more efficient plants.

---

Spiciness and Growth Regulation​

Strains high in THCV or grown in dry regions with low humidity often exhibit a spicier taste. This spiciness is linked to how cannabis regulates growth in response to environmental stressors like shade or drought.

---

Geraniol and Linalool: Defense Terpenes and Environmental Adaptations​

Both geraniol and linalool serve key roles in plant defense but are associated with different environments:

• Geraniol (NLD Association):
  Found in warm, humid regions, it serves as an insect repellent and antifungal agent.
• Linalool (BLD Association):
  Found in cold, high-altitude regions, it provides antifungal and antimicrobial effects while helping plants handle cold stress.

---

Cannabinoids and Sesquiterpenes as Growth Regulators​

Cannabinoids like THC and sesquiterpenes such as beta-caryophyllene and humulene act as growth regulators. In low light, shade, or resource-limited conditions, these compounds help the plant slow its growth and focus on survival.

---

THC and Growth Regulation​

THC helps plants focus their energy on trichome production (rich in cannabinoids) rather than size, leading to smaller, more resilient plants that excel in high-UV or arid environments.

---

Sesquiterpenes as Growth Regulators​

Beta-caryophyllene and humulene help plants manage growth in low-light or nutrient-poor environments. These heavier terpenes require more energy to produce, but they are crucial for long-term defense.

---

Why Monoterpene-Dominant and Sesquiterpene-Dominant Plants Coexist in Fields​

The coexistence of monoterpene-dominant and sesquiterpene-dominant plants in the same field is due to growth rates and light availability:

• Monoterpene-Dominant Plants (Fast-Growing, Sun-Loving):
  Grow quickly, produce lighter monoterpenes, and absorb more sunlight. Their growth creates shade for smaller plants.
• Sesquiterpene-Dominant Plants (Slower-Growing, Shade-Tolerant):
  Thrive in shady environments and focus on producing heavier sesquiterpenes to cope with low light and long-term stress.

This balance allows sun-exposed plants to produce monoterpenes, while shaded plants focus on sesquiterpenes, resulting in a diverse terpene profile within the same crop.

View attachment 19078542

Quite impressive and well researched

 

[yesum]

Cool info Verdant, thanks. I smoked half a pin joint of the Northcoast Acapulco Gold from another plant. Pleasant but no trip. I expected that. It is a pheno hunt with the AG.

The problem with cannabis is that there are around 500 known chemicals present. We now know of the cannabinoids and terpenes. What about the other 400+ chemicals? And when chemicals mix in different ratios, that is another thing to consider.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Cool info Verdant, thanks. I smoked half a pin joint of the Northcoast Acapulco Gold from another plant. Pleasant but no trip. I expected that. It is a pheno hunt with the AG.

The problem with cannabis is that there are around 500 known chemicals present. We now know of the cannabinoids and terpenes. What about the other 400+ chemicals? And when chemicals mix in different ratios, that is another thing to consider.

The AG Line sounds very nice, goodluck on your phenohunt,.

I agree there are alot of variables, i am just focused on the terpenes and cannabinoids at the moment looking for connections with region and envionements among landraces to spot patterns, there are so many variables i am just focusing on the big puzzle pieces at the moment. even if there is 400+ chemicals if we can find two varieties that share similiar top terpene profile from similiar regions they should be similiar in terms of profiles.

 

[LandraceJunkie]

Quite impressive and well researched

Hello @Kidete!
Congratulations for your trip! And much respect for the work you put in, brother!

 

[LandraceJunkie]

Cool info Verdant, thanks. I smoked half a pin joint of the Northcoast Acapulco Gold from another plant. Pleasant but no trip. I expected that. It is a pheno hunt with the AG.

The problem with cannabis is that there are around 500 known chemicals present. We now know of the cannabinoids and terpenes. What about the other 400+ chemicals? And when chemicals mix in different ratios, that is another thing to consider.

I would be interested in any details you could provide us about the phenotypic expressions of that AG, after you finish growing it, and after you had some time to test it!

 

[Perdido]

Maybe I am in the right place for my question here, @Verdant Whisperer
I once (late 80s?) got a Chitral cut from Holland, it was the most devastating weed I and many others ever smoked. Nobody smoked it a second time voluntarily.
My question is: what cannabinoids or which combinations of terpenes and cannabinoids could cause such an effect (edit) of impending doom.
You felt sick, your head was buzzing loud, the cloud in your head was thick, you couldn't talk or swallow anything, the pressure in your eyes was immense. Couch lock was complete, even for people with the highest tolerance. You only wanted it to stop and then you would crawl into your bed feeling sick.
From the smell I only remember that it was very promising, very intense and aromatic. It was a perfect indoor harvest too.
I threw the cut away - disgusted. Later I felt that was stupid. Could have been perfect for breeding.

It would be great if you could help.
Or anybody

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Maybe I am in the right place for my question here, @Verdant Whisperer
I once (late 80s?) got a Chitral cut from Holland, it was the most devastating weed I and many others ever smoked. Nobody smoked it a second time voluntarily.
My question is: what cannabinoids or which combinations of terpenes and cannabinoids could cause such an effect (edit) of impending doom.
You felt sick, your head was buzzing loud, the cloud in your head was thick, you couldn't talk or swallow anything, the pressure in your eyes was immense. Couch lock was complete, even for people with the highest tolerance. You only wanted it to stop and then you would crawl into your bed feeling sick.
From the smell I only remember that it was very promising, very intense and aromatic. It was a perfect indoor harvest too.
I threw the cut away - disgusted. Later I felt that was stupid. Could have been perfect for breeding.

It would be great if you could help.
Or anybody

Hmm im not sure but if i had to guess a strain like pishin black with the dead animal smell and high levels of myrcene and terpinolene. the broad leaf, darkers ones. would be my guess. but im not 100% sure but it seems like the smells and flavors are similiar to the energies the plants pass and they also say myrcene/terpinolene strains kinda get you wasted in another world not comfortable but some of them are very numbing and sedating with a psycoactive effect many can feel uncomfortable. maybe another stain that sativa and high in those 2 terps as well is purple inthanon thai landrace, i think the pishin would do it, or a hybrid of those 2 for sure would be a clusterbuck.