Oldtimer's Haze

[Feb2006er]

I should chime in here and help Dubi out. Sam said that they grew Mexican and Colombian the first year. That should be “Colombians”. The first year there was a Santa Marta Gold type and a Pati Morada type of Colombian. The purple traits and some of the flavor were from the latter. The males that pollinated were Colombian and the females taking the pollen were Colombian. Those seeds were stored and grown the next year with newer seed lines started each year. That’s where the Indian and Thai come in. I think some of the less incense/Colombian pure hazes are the later years. The types of Haze that Nevil picked were not from later years seed stock. If you test Pati Morada against purple haze you will see the genetic similarity. Ask Sam about the Colombian seeds and William was flying out to Maui and to SF and FL. William and Gip were the guys selling the Colombian and coordinating loads. I have found the people that moved the Colombian and am helping search for seeds as some Colombian skull and crossbones seeds were stashed.

 

[bigherb]

I should chime in here and help Dubi out. Sam said that they grew Mexican and Colombian the first year. That should be “Colombians”. The first year there was a Santa Marta Gold type and a Pati Morada type of Colombian. The purple traits and some of the flavor were from the latter. The males that pollinated were Colombian and the females taking the pollen were Colombian. Those seeds were stored and grown the next year with newer seed lines started each year. That’s where the Indian and Thai come in. I think some of the less incense/Colombian pure hazes are the later years. The types of Haze that Nevil picked were not from later years seed stock. If you test Pati Morada against purple haze you will see the genetic similarity. Ask Sam about the Colombian seeds and William was flying out to Maui and to SF and FL. William and Gip were the guys selling the Colombian and coordinating loads. I have found the people that moved the Colombian and am helping search for seeds as some Colombian skull and crossbones seeds were stashed.

Dubi does not need any help

Anything other then Punto Rojo was/Is not Santa Cruz Original Haze

Not sure where you get any of your info , I’ve never seen or heard pati morada . Mexican was never used ever Etc

SamS was not around G in 69 what would he know about the Colombian source .

You should read my True Origins of Haze article, in my thread everything is discussed and broken down every which way

1luvbigherb

 

[sdd420]

Dubi does not need any help

Anything other then Punto Rojo was/Is not Santa Cruz Original Haze

Not sure where you get any of your info , I’ve never seen or heard pati morada . Mexican was never used ever Etc

SamS was not around G in 69 what would he know about the Colombian source .

You should read my True Origins of Haze article, in my thread everything is discussed and broken down every which way

1luvbigherb

Can you post a link to the article?

 

[bigherb]

Can you post a link to the article?

Post #1007 in my Questions for Sams OHaze thread

I haven’t used a desktop in years , Since I use my iPhone I have no idea how to post links or upload pics


1luvbigherb

 

[Feb2006er]

Pati Morada, Mangobiche, Corinto, Dorada de Santa Marta, Manizales Black, Antioquía, Mona Amarilla, and the two types of Punto Rojo were smuggled. Montaña Rojo had purple and red buds. Lowland types heading into Panama were red haired and green colored. The further away from Cauca the less you’ll see the anthocyanins. Now if you’ve grown Pati Morada, which obviously you haven’t, you would notice some very interesting smells and flavors close to haze. Not lemony like it gets closer to Panama. I can tell you who to talk to in Colombia that was orchestrating loads from Cauca to Rio Hatcha in the late 60s. You can also ask any rainbow bridge people about William and Gip. I contacted the person with the closest genetic relative to the haze and he told me the area where his collection originated in Colombia. DNA puts it in Santa Marta mountain range and that person calls it Colombian Gold. I think you’d be better suited asking Sam what the bales had stamped on them rather than assuming names correlated much once the weed had been smuggled.

 

[bigherb]

Pati Morada, Mangobiche, Corinto, Dorada de Santa Marta, Manizales Black, Antioquía, Mona Amarilla, and the two types of Punto Rojo were smuggled. Montaña Rojo had purple and red buds. Lowland types heading into Panama were red haired and green colored. The further away from Cauca the less you’ll see the anthocyanins. Now if you’ve grown Pati Morada, which obviously you haven’t, you would notice some very interesting smells and flavors close to haze. Not lemony like it gets closer to Panama. I can tell you who to talk to in Colombia that was orchestrating loads from Cauca to Rio Hatcha in the late 60s. You can also ask any rainbow bridge people about William and Gip. I contacted the person with the closest genetic relative to the haze and he told me the area where his collection originated in Colombia. DNA puts it in Santa Marta mountain range and that person calls it Colombian Gold. I think you’d be better suited asking Sam what the bales had stamped on them rather than assuming names correlated much once the weed had been smuggled.

I’d love to know more about Colombian strains of yesteryear. Seems you are familiar with these types .Im all ears to anything you wish to share

Talking Haze Remember Sams wasn’t around the till 71-72 and didn’t grow Haze till later . Regrading the Origins he was not there . Soo unless you know G you know nothing about it

1luvbigherb

 

[Feb2006er]

I’d love to know more about Colombian strains of yesteryear. Seems you are familiar with these types .Im all ears to anything you wish to share

Talking Haze Remember Sams wasn’t around the till 71-72 and didn’t grow Haze till later . Regrading the Origins he was not there . Soo unless you know G you know nothing about it

1luvbigherb

Adam Dunn show will have an interview soon. Also working on DH info for the Colombian Gold with it’s collection location. That’s the closest relative to the green haze of ace

 

[Water-]

Big Herb,

what makes you so confident that you were told the truth by this guy in santa cruz about the Haze??

 

[bigherb]

Big Herb,

what makes you so confident that you were told the truth by this guy in santa cruz about the Haze??

Many hours of research. The info available with the info I was given . The offline folk I’ve contacted . Might I add there are three brothers, which Sams never spoke of and G the originator who wasn’t mentioned until my article

Plus SamS response to my article

Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
I read this and have to say it is mostly correct, a few minor points are off. I do not want to nit-pick.
In the past I have read so much crap about the Haze it was nice to see the mostly true facts for a change.
I was in all the greenhouses that G and R.L. used to grow, they were not big or fancy. G's first crop was outdoors in the Santa Cruz mountains, they used greenhouses as soon as they could. In the beginning both lived separately just a block or two from my place, I was a close friend of both.
Remember, I was given permission to use and reproduce the genes and the name the Original Haze back in the 70's. Not that most people care, but I did.
As far as I know I am the only one with un-hybridized Haze. Only used for breeding it is amazing what happens when you use it to make Haze/Whatever hybrids, amazing

-SamS

1luvbigherb

 

[SolarLogos]

Hi SolarLogos,

Nice to know you plan to grow Oldtimer's Haze this season
If you manage to finish her properly i promise you it will be an experience you will never forget

I have grown Oldtimer's haze for almost 15 years with classic 6.5-6.8 ph for soil, no benefit to increase the soil ph up to 7.5-8.5 range, quite the opposite, it only will cause feeding and health problems, but you can test it by your own with some clones and compare. Best wishes!

"When the ears of the student are ready to hear, then cometh lips to fill them with Wisdom." — The Kybalion.


Thank you Dubi, 6.5-6.8 pH it will be! I've got 5 up and starting their second set of true leaves. That gives me just enough room for Nevil's haze x Panama and a couple other Ace goodies coming my way

Peace, God bless

 

[Feb2006er]

Many hours of research. The info available with the info I was given . The offline folk I’ve contacted . Might I add there are three brothers, which Sams never spoke of and G the originator who wasn’t mentioned until my article

Plus SamS response to my article




1luvbigherb

DNA beats hearsay.

I’ll let you read this about your trusted source of info-
“It would have been about ’95, but I’m terrible with dates, but I was working at the Castle for Ben and they came to see me. They wanted to enlist my help in delineating the ancestries of the strains that I had put out. Ben still wasn’t selling anything that I hadn’t made (to the best of my knowledge). I found this to be a remarkable request for a number of reasons. I asked them why? What followed rocked my world. They told me that they were cooperating with the Australian Federal Police, who wanted to establish links between growing operation in Australia using genetic fingerprinting and the information I was to provide. This would lead to longer prison sentences. I’d recently done 11 months in maximum security remand in Australia and alarm bells are going off in my head like crazy. But I can be cool under pressure and decided to draw them out. They knew I had children in Australia and couldn’t go and see them. The suggestion was raised that cooperating might help my chances to be able to go back. They thought they had me. I said that I needed time to consider this proposal and needed some kind of documentary proof that they were genuine. No problem, I was told. On a later visit I was provided with documents from the Australian Federal Police demonstrating that this and much more was indeed the case. I said that I wished to show these documents to a legal adviser before making any decisions and was given their permission to do so. I went to Mario Lap, who used to work for the N.I.A.D. (Dutch institute for alcohol and drugs) and was an adviser to the Dutch Labor Party on cannabis affairs. He has a good paralegal mind and is well acquainted with law as it relates to cannabis. He was horrified as to the implications of those documents and didn’t particularly like American spooks operating in his back yard. He made further inquiries with the various Dutch ministries as to who these people were and who they were connected with and how they got their permits for Hortapharm. Mario is on record as to what he concluded and how that lead to their losing the Hortapharm license, My repeating it would only be hearsay. He may still have the original documents. Some time later when Hortapharm had lost their license and the Dutch law had been changed and seed breeding was illegal in Holland, we were all fairly bitter. Sam wanted a showdown which Arjan ended up organizing. Sam, Rob, Arjan and I met in a coffee shop. I don’t think Scott [Shantibaba] was there. They accused me of bringing down Hortapharm and I accused them of destroying the Dutch scene in order to get a monopoly. They came with their rationalizations the end justifying the means etc, but neither of us denied anything much. Nothing was achieved and we never saw each other again.” —Nevil

 

[bigherb]

Feb2006

Let’s not clutter this thread with Non revelant Post

If you had enough time to do you research you wouldn’t question me in the first place . The site you found this info I was a member of . The answers you have today are because questions I asked

I was the first to get a Rise out of Nevil , to stir his pot and make him ponder . Much Respect to the Legend I wish our convo ended differently

Your welcome

1luvbigherb

 

[Feb2006er]

I’m telling you that you hold hearsay from a known DEA snitch over the smugglers and now DNA evidence. The closest known relatives to haze are Gold Colombian and Pati Morada. The fact that you will argue that no matter what shows your ignorance and how you are a shill for Sam. DH knows the exact collection area he got his Gold Colombian and how that’s the closest relative to green haze. You can use Sam the Snitchmans bullshit hearsay and keep spreading disinformation because you’ll be just as forgotten as the pre86 OG losers that just create shit to fluff their egos. I grew up with Colombian. First time I planted a Colombian pot plant was 1983 and I have a pic of it at my moms. I remember the smells of the joints my dad used to burn as a kid that were all from Colombian seed. To this day I can tell the difference by smell of many Colombian varietals. Incense smells come from cauca and especially Pati Morada. Everything pacific came out of Punta Patina and later moved south to Buenaventura by one smuggling group and another out of Barranquilla. Both were supplied by the same acquisition person at first until the loads became too big around 71-72 and Patina got cut off. Sam the snitchman didn’t sell the Colombian pot or deal with the bales or transportation. He got end user custy information. People couldn’t sell things like now. Bale labels only meant stuff to the smugglers. They knew what bales to pull out for themselves to smoke. That really good shit never hit the streets. Rio Hatchas skull and crossbones for instance were the most coveted bales for smugglers. To get back to your being so absurdly stuck on Sam the snitchmans Punto Rojo nomenclature you should realize that there were two drying methods sun and not sun which usually made two types of pot gold and red haired. Any bales that weren’t gold were pretty much called Punto Rojo. It would be like saying crippy in FL in the 90s, Skunk in the UK in the 90s, or Reggie in most of the US, or Kush in California post 2000. Blanket nomenclature. Corinto was the term in Colombia for Reggie but it is about the plant quality not seedstock. Bale the primo stuff out of the field with one stamp and all the boof is labeled Corinto. Same seeds. Depending on which indigenous people were growing from what region tended to decide what their drying methods were(humidity is a problem). Both gold pot and red haired pot cam from all over Colombia. The Patina to Cauca lowlands are like Ace Panama and it’s lemony and red haired which is what Punto Rojo seems to be pretty standard from old smugglers to current people living in Medellin and Bogota. You have to find people that either can tell where certain bale stamps came from(J.E.), or people that collected while there and know the specific area. DH is the one person with the knowledge of the village where his Gold Colombian was from. That gives a specific region. Is there a possibility of non sundried from that area and could be what caused the eventual nomenclature problem as of current. Rather than regurgitating Sam Snitchmans why don’t you go find Pati Morada seeds, Punto Rojo from CBG, OT haze, and Panama from Ace and start some up and do a grow report. Let me know what you think of that smell and flavor and which is more a part of OT haze. While you’re at it send all to Phylos and then we can all finally put Snitchman where he belongs and that’s in the disgraced place Snitches go to live a shitty existence before they burn in Hell.

 

[willydread]

I fear the true story of original haze is (like all legends) less exciting than how it is told, and will end up buried as its main protagonists ...
This without disrespecting anyone ...
.......

Well, this is the tread about oldtimer haze, right? I would like to know if this OT1HAZE was from a different haze, I had read something similar many pages ago ... maybe "haze" was a name used for a certain type of sativa, a bit like MM in Australia, or lambsbread in Jamaica ...

 

[SolarLogos]

Thanks willydread,

That's correct, and i thought i already commented it in this thread.
To germinate Oldtimer's Haze is better to do it directly in the soil with tropical temps between 24-30ºC (never lower than 24ºC). It's one of the very few strains i know from first hand experience that does not germinate well with more modern germination methods like the paper towel.

The next OTH seeds will certainly go directly into soil. I have read most of the OTH thread, still catching up. I did not recall reading that earlier (so much to read, big thread), but I'm very glad you have you mention it again. That is very good to know. Thanks for all your help Dubi.
Peace, God bless

 

[Feb2006er]

I fear the true story of original haze is (like all legends) less exciting than how it is told, and will end up buried as its main protagonists ...
This without disrespecting anyone ...
.......

Well, this is the tread about oldtimer haze, right? I would like to know if this OT1HAZE was from a different haze, I had read something similar many pages ago ... maybe "haze" was a name used for a certain type of sativa, a bit like MM in Australia, or lambsbread in Jamaica ...

OTH doesn’t seem to have relatives outside of Colombia. Later years had other stuff bred into the haze. Nevil did the grail work with NH and MM and thought that MM had heavy influence from New Guinea. That grail work was done in hopes of finding something better than haze. My thoughts are IBL of Gold Colombian and IBL of Pati Morada would allow better selection and may have a higher probability of “white” type offspring when bred together resulting in a haze male that throws the smell, taste, and high we all love, while retaining incredible amounts of resin for hash production. That’s what I’m going after. That’s exactly why I have spent countless hours researching outside of the box and digging at the source the strains originated from. It’s kind of like how hash traders sold in markets that tourists went to in Afghanistan. Good probability that afghan skunk types are from around the Kundoz village area. Less of that rotten fruit. What do you think are the chances of getting “afghani seeds collected in Chitral” in the 70s and those being farmed there? There may be something to rks & sweet skunk in the same lines.

 

[Feb2006er]

I must thank as well to you and to all friends who helped me to explore different lines and sources. It took more than 2 years to select some non hermi plants representative of Punto Rojo from 3 different places and ages, from highland purple to green phenos, from central/south to northern Sta Marta Punto Rojos.
Punto Rojo is very hard to obtain nowdays non hybridated, it was one of best representative Colombians very well known in spanish spoken countries if compared with Colombian Reds, quicker lines, and better known for others...
kaiki

I’ll just leave this here.

 

[Red Doberman]

Not sure if it's already been announced elsewhere, but I just found out our fellow aussie legend Nevil Schoenmakers has passed away

 

[hard rain]

Not sure if it's already been announced elsewhere, but I just found out our fellow aussie legend Nevil Schoenmakers has passed away

There's a thread about it.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=360851

 

[OlDirtyHuman]

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