Oldtimer's Haze

[40degsouth]

Hey Solar,
I don't want to teach anyone to suck eggs here but seed meal is a fantastic substitute for blood and bone. The meal l use is a biproduct of the oil industry and is really cheap.
I use it as a top dress, in the mix itself and sometimes as a mulch.
It contains %28 protein and more nitrogen than chicken manure.
Outdoors, the chiten comes from the insects that colonise this amendment and as things warm up l'm always fascinated to sit and watch the soil move.
Hope this helps.

 

[LostTribe]

Like I said I wouldn't put them into that hot of a mix. I initially went from jiffy seed starter to 40/40/20 FoxFarm Ocean Forest/Peat Moss/ Perlite. Nearly killed them, severely burnt.

 

[SolarLogos]

Like I said I wouldn't put them into that hot of a mix. I initially went from jiffy seed starter to 40/40/20 FoxFarm Ocean Forest/Peat Moss/ Perlite. Nearly killed them, severely burnt.

Thanks LT. I'm going to heed yours, Dubi and others on here's advice and just add a little worm castings to my coco mix, which contained already mixed, perlite, Leonardite ore, earthworm castings, Motmorilionite and Yucca Extract. I have fresh worm castings I can add a little at transplant and top dress if needed, maybe water occasionally with WC tea. I will add a little bat guano at transplant before flower and top dress lightly if needed. I basically will just pH the water and monitor them if they happen to need anything.
I have 4 out of the ground, so we are off and running! The other 3 haven't opened yet (again, this is my fault, no reflection on Ace). Hopefully 3 females would be good for me to handle, so I can have time to play with the new crosses Ace is sending me in the mail, at least one Nevils haze x panama and a few Honduran x Panama.

Peace, God bless

 

[Feb2006er]

I make my own nutes and the pH changes back to center after brewing in a vortex brewer with microbes for 24hrs. The soil usually sits about 5.9-6.2 the whole time. This is my tea mix for when they start to feed in veg and the bigger they get you can double everything that goes into the water. I alternate feedings and watering and in veg I use this tea on one feeding and the next feeding I use fresh nettle/clover/ryegrass ferment and homemade calmag.
1 cup worm castings
1/2 cup alfalfa meal
1/4 cup kelp
2 gallons of de-chlorinated water

 

[Big Nasty]

Can someone who has grown OTH tell me, do they generally germinate pretty slowly? It took mine 3 days for 3 seeds to open. Two of them that opened have barely changed in 48 hours. I'm using the standard method, wet paper towels. pH is 6.8, temps being carefully monitored at 75-76F degrees. Paper towels changed ever other day.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79757&pictureid=1932490View Image
The one on the bottom got planted in coco/pearlite mix. Here it is and it's lifting it's head up out of the mix this morning:https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79757&pictureid=1932492View Image
The other two, have hardly budged in two days. There is some growth to the tap root, but very very slow. The other 4 seeds have not opened at all after 5 days.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79757&pictureid=1932491View Image
Sorry about the color, the flash didn't go off, so it's orange kitchen lighting. Any thoughts anyone?
Peace, God bless

Hi mate,i'm having the same problem with the Green hazene germinated slowly and for the other 2 i had to open them carefully with a razor blade,now they're sucking up water.It seems the seed shell don't absorb water as easily as one can think.

 

[SolarLogos]

Hi mate,i'm having the same problem with the Green hazene germinated slowly and for the other 2 i had to open them carefully with a razor blade,now they're sucking up water.It seems the seed shell don't absorb water as easily as one can think.

Your spot on my friend. I usually scarify the seeds if they have not opened within a week and can get 30-60% germination afterward. I scarified the seeds 2 days ago. The next morning another one opened and had a 1cm tap root, so it may not have been that I left the seeds out of the fridge too long, but most likely the seed was not absorbing water yet. Good call. I now have 5 out of 7 out of the ground, not bad. I have to be gone for a couple days, so they are in a tray with an inch of water in the bottom to wick up any liquid while I'm gone.

Peace, God bless

 

[willydread]

Your spot on my friend. I usually scarify the seeds if they have not opened within a week and can get 30-60% germination afterward. I scarified the seeds 2 days ago. The next morning another one opened and had a 1cm tap root, so it may not have been that I left the seeds out of the fridge too long, but most likely the seed was not absorbing water yet. Good call. I now have 5 out of 7 out of the ground, not bad. I have to be gone for a couple days, so they are in a tray with an inch of water in the bottom to wick up any liquid while I'm gone.

Peace, God bless

If it can help, I also had the same problem, until here on the forum they advised me to put the seeds directly into the ground, and it worked ....

 

[orfeas]

Germination in the ground is what it's meant to be and therefore the safest way to go about it... any other process carries the risk of getting a plant from a seed that wouldn't have germinated otherwise...

orfeas

 

[Big Nasty]

Germination in the ground is what it's meant to be and therefore the safest way to go about it... any other process carries the risk of getting a plant from a seed that wouldn't have germinated otherwise...

orfeas

That's what i usually do but this time it did not work:2 days in soil,2 days in water and nothing happened until i removed a layer of seed shell and the taproot showed within 8 hours,3 out of 4.

 

[dubi]

Hi willydread,

Many very old extreme tropical sativas from SE Asia, Africa and Central America can share a similar vibe and similar traits like certain terpenes, a pure THC chemotype with no CBD, similar behaviour like growth, response to flowering only with shorter photoperiods than 12/12, very long flowering times (4 months or more), but honestly i don't see an obvious relationship between Oldtimer's Haze line and Thai sativas, at least with the Thais i've experienced (and i've tried and grown many different ones), although i can also be wrong.

It's my intuition that Oldtimer's Haze is only or mainly composed of old colombian sativa genetics, she is probably a very early version of Haze or at least she is related with the colombian sativa lines related to produce first Haze versions. At least, the terpene profiles, aromas, psychoactivity, flowering times, display of green and purple phenos match perfectly with pure Haze definition and personality.

Sam confirmed the South Indian Kerala and Thais were added to Haze in latest Haze breeding years. He is the only that can confirm which Haze versions were brought by him to Holland. Again, only by doing genetic analyses to all the suposed pure Haze populations available through these decades (Flying Dutchmen Original Haze of late 90s, Haze males A and C that Nevil worked with, Tom Hill's Haze from Positronics, Oldtimer's Haze, etc ...) will shed more light about the origins and relationships of the different Haze lines.

@dubi:
You know this strain better than me, and you've certainly seen many more plants than me, do you really see no Thai influence?
it is not a criticism or a diss, we are here to exchange opinions and above all (I for first) learn...

 

[dubi]

Hi nldfarmer,

Your doubts are very legit. I don't think dispensaries or even dutch coffee shops sell any pure Haze in flower form, pure Haze is simply not a commercially viable strain in 'pure' form', those who have grown pure Haze (especially indoors) know this perfectly, but a good Haze hybrid can be amazing and could have relevant commercial potential regarding yield, quality, bag appeal, etc ... what you will find being sold as Haze in a dispensary will be a Haze x indica hybrid at best.

For sure, by exploring and experiencing real old school uncontaminated colombian sativas would be a good way to get an idea of how pure Haze was in the late 70s, the problem nowadays is to be able to access to legit, extreme old school colombian sativas and pure Hazes to make the comparison. As you well know, both old colombian sativas and pure Haze have been constantly hybridized since the 80s.

Incense aromas can be found in different pure sativa landraces from all around the world, but if a sativa is incensey it doesn't necessarily mean it is Haze or a Haze hybrid. For example, my first experience with an incensey sativa was with a pure wild sativa from Kathmandu, Nepal, which clearly had no relationship with Haze except for the incensey aromas. Old colombian, panamanian sativas and even oaxacan mexican sativas can produce more or less intense incense aromas.

In fact, our Panama release was bred with different panamanian sativas, which are related with old colombian Punto Rojo sativas, and our Panama can be very very incensey, and has no Haze.

this answers a lot of questions I had. I was very confused because throughout the years I've found Haze to be the best medically for my issues but no consistency between what the different dispensaries name as Haze.

Separately I've found a Columbian line that gives similar relief with zero Haze influence.

Now I'm curious, if Haze is mainly Columbian, would it be worth going through Columbian stock to find the longer flowering phenos? Were there Punto rojo/hazey phenos in the original Panama release? I guess an alternative way to ask is does anyone else have evidence of the
Thai/Indian/Mexican influence?

Mostly trying to decide which way to go to make my own Haze, any opinions are welcome.

 

[dubi]

Hi Illuminate,

Not during the growth or even during the first half of the flowering. The colorful or Purple Haze phenos mainly produce their pigmentation in the second half of flowering with a temp drop outdoors... i don't even recall to have seen red sap when topping or cloning Oldtimer's Haze parental plants, and i have been doing it for almost 15 years. But to be honest, color of the sap is not a trait very important in my selections. It's something beautiful to see, but anecdotal. There's no relationship between the color of the sap and the quality of the finished product of a female.

Do the red/purple ot1's have red sap?

 

[Big Nasty]

Hi willydread,

Many very old extreme tropical sativas from SE Asia, Africa and Central America can share a similar vibe and similar traits like certain terpenes, a pure THC chemotype with no CBD, similar behaviour like growth, response to flowering only with shorter photoperiods than 12/12, very long flowering times (4 months or more), but honestly i don't see an obvious relationship between Oldtimer's Haze line and Thai sativas, at least with the Thais i've experienced (and i've tried and grown many different ones), although i can also be wrong.

It's my intuition that Oldtimer's Haze is only or mainly composed of old colombian sativa genetics, she is probably a very early version of Haze or at least she is related with the colombian sativa lines related to produce first Haze versions. At least, the terpene profiles, aromas, psychoactivity, flowering times, display of green and purple phenos match perfectly with pure Haze definition and personality.

Sam confirmed the South Indian Kerala and Thais were added to Haze in latest Haze breeding years. He is the only that can confirm which Haze versions were brought by him to Holland. Again, only by doing genetic analyses to all the suposed pure Haze populations available through these decades (Flying Dutchmen Original Haze of late 90s, Haze males A and C that Nevil worked with, Tom Hill's Haze from Positronics, Oldtimer's Haze, etc ...) will shed more light about the origins and relationships of the different Haze lines.

Hi dubi,so the Green haze it's not related to Thais and Indians but rather to green phenos of Colombian or it's a selection of the latest hazes after the addiction of SE Asian strains?

 

[dubi]

Hi gunsofbrixton,

I can confirm that what you grew and flowered is not a pure Haze neither pure Oldtimer's Haze, not even a direct Haze cross. Haze and Oldtimer's Haze have 0 indica influence, and they start the flowering outdoors after autumn equinox in late Sept, ripening around Xmas time. A pure Haze crossed with a fast flowering strain still produces a hybrid that easily needs 12 weeks or more of flowering, usually finishing in November outdoors, depending on the latitude.

I am an old-time grower in mendocino, and i have been working to preserve old-school genetics for many years now, mostly sativas. I grew an old timer last season that i procured from another old-school dude in humboldt. The questions i have is regarding phenos. Are you familiar with any shorter perhaps indica dominant phenos of old-timer? The one i had stayed green and was shorter and finished in late sept/early oct.
thank you in advance

 

[dubi]

Hola sinaloa

Un placer verle por aqui, las motas mejicanas de los 60 y 70 si tenían hojas mucho más afinadas, para ya sabe usted, desde los 80 fueron cruzadas con genéticas indica y desde entonces las motas mejicanas no tienen esas hojas afinadas que muestran algunas sativas extremas tropicales no contaminadas. Le animo a probar Oldtimer's Haze, es una experiencia que nunca olvidará

hola dubi

muy bonita pinta de estas old su nombre lo dice
tiene paresido alas primeras motas asemilladas que se trabajaron en mexico

muy bonitos las manos largas y dedos finos,

saludos

sinaloa

 

[dubi]

Glad you are still enjoying her LostTribe
To be able to experience Oldtimer's Haze is really a blast from the past.... a totally different experience than smoking any sativa/indica hybrid.

Man I wish I had a way to take macros of this OTPH. Its at 18 months cure and just reached its prime. Broke up a chunk in a bowl to remove the beans I made and crumbled it up super fine. Its dark incense earthy tones are only truly unleashed upon burning her. On exhaling I am overcome with a dank intense spicy church incense combined with dark berry background.

Its the type of smoke if you leave the room after smoking and come back in you want to just stick your nose back in an keep inhaling for the ultra old school exotic experience.

This is turning into my deserted island strain.
Such a difference from any other strain I have experienced.

Feeling good and time for another bowl! Cheers Then!
LT

 

[dubi]

Hi SolarLogos,

Nice to know you plan to grow Oldtimer's Haze this season
If you manage to finish her properly i promise you it will be an experience you will never forget

I have grown Oldtimer's haze for almost 15 years with classic 6.5-6.8 ph for soil, no benefit to increase the soil ph up to 7.5-8.5 range, quite the opposite, it only will cause feeding and health problems, but you can test it by your own with some clones and compare. Best wishes!

Thank you very much LT, that is very useful information and coming from yourself, who has quite a bit of knowledge on growing this strain. I have been debating on whether to grow in a coco mix, with a little worm castings and quano at transplant, but am also considering an un-amended soil mix, since I like the idea of top dressing occasionally with worm castings and light organic feedings if necessary. There is an old thread on here, I will have to look for it. There is a soil recipe in a book that was supposed to be the Haze Brothers soil mix, coming from Sam himself, who comments on the thread. It was a bit more than I want to duplicate, but the part that got me was the pH, he recommended 7.5-8.5, "sweet for the connoisseur's treat." That's quite a bit higher than I am comfortable with, but did you find that the OTH has a sweet spot or pH preference? Would there have been a purpose for the higher pH?

Peace, God bless

Got 7 seeds wet last night. My outdoor grow season has begun! Thank you so much Dubi and Ace for sharing these awesome genetics! I've been looking forward to this grow season. I might have to experiment on soil pH, but not with these, clones maybe.[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79757&pictureid=1931629&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]
These were from Jan. 2018.

I'm planning to flip them in July so I can have the proper heat and light intensity to finish them.

Peace, God bless

 

[dubi]

Thanks willydread,

That's correct, and i thought i already commented it in this thread.
To germinate Oldtimer's Haze is better to do it directly in the soil with tropical temps between 24-30ºC (never lower than 24ºC). It's one of the very few strains i know from first hand experience that does not germinate well with more modern germination methods like the paper towel.

If it can help, I also had the same problem, until here on the forum they advised me to put the seeds directly into the ground, and it worked ....

 

[dubi]

Hi Big Nasty,

If you ask me nowadays my reply would be that Green Haze phenos of Oldtimer's Haze is still mainly colombian sativa, and genetic analysis done to our Green Haze #19 mother seems to go in that direction.

Hi dubi,so the Green haze it's not related to Thais and Indians but rather to green phenos of Colombian or it's a selection of the latest hazes after the addiction of SE Asian strains?

 

[bigherb]

Hi willydread,

Many very old extreme tropical sativas from SE Asia, Africa and Central America can share a similar vibe and similar traits like certain terpenes, a pure THC chemotype with no CBD, similar behaviour like growth, response to flowering only with shorter photoperiods than 12/12, very long flowering times (4 months or more), but honestly i don't see an obvious relationship between Oldtimer's Haze line and Thai sativas, at least with the Thais i've experienced (and i've tried and grown many different ones), although i can also be wrong.

It's my intuition that Oldtimer's Haze is only or mainly composed of old colombian sativa genetics, she is probably a very early version of Haze or at least she is related with the colombian sativa lines related to produce first Haze versions. At least, the terpene profiles, aromas, psychoactivity, flowering times, display of green and purple phenos match perfectly with pure Haze definition and personality.

Sam confirmed the South Indian Kerala and Thais were added to Haze in latest Haze breeding years. He is the only that can confirm which Haze versions were brought by him to Holland. Again, only by doing genetic analyses to all the suposed pure Haze populations available through these decades (Flying Dutchmen Original Haze of late 90s, Haze males A and C that Nevil worked with, Tom Hill's Haze from Positronics, Oldtimer's Haze, etc ...) will shed more light about the origins and relationships of the different Haze lines.

Sup brother

Always great to hear your opinion , especially considering your vast knowledge and experiences . For soo long many folk related Haze to Thai , many without having experienced smoking or growing old Thais or lumbos . Something people forget is Colombians can be equatorial and can express More NLD traits , flower even longer than Thais

Sams later on actually contradicted that Statement saying he gave R.L Thai and S.Indian in 72 and later . Then later saying off the stick Golden Thai aka Laos in 76 . G the originator Never crossed Punto Rojo aka OHaze he didn’t think the others were as good . R.L. used both SamS Saying little bit has Thai even less has S.Indian Influence .what Most have , Haze is pure lumbo


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