No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

[Weird]

Well again, it depends on who you talk to some say you go to hell then, some say you are contacted between your death and the day of judgment and given a chance to know and believe in Christ [Mormons], some say you go to a place between heaven and hell called purgatory and there you are given a chance to know and accept Christ as your savior. [Catholics]

And anyone who has had a personal revelation knows that the confirmation of the spirit happens within, not through the words of another.

If you can't reconcile the differences in Christianity to your own personal understanding then that in and of itself is the limit of your understanding.

God is the concept of reconciliation of our base/karnal nature because it no longer commands us, because we have embraced our higher consciousness. We have "reconciled" ourselves to the living God.

Trick is your supposed to do this as a Bodhisattva, that is, in faith, not because you know the return of your actions.

This kind of gets back at the subject I've been edging at which is God's Power, the reason we are told that Jesus needed to be sacrificed was because the wage's of sin is death and that all have sinned due to original sin. So since Jesus is God made flesh he has the ability to transcend hell and raise himself to heaven. Which we can also achieve by believing in him. Well it seems rather convoluted to have to go thru all that and sacrifice your only begotten son. Since you're all powerful why not simply say that the wages of sin our laps around the pool up in heaven. That way everyone gets in and has nice 6 pack abs.

Because God did not want a clone of himself, but a creation that would choose to love him on it's own accord.

Interestingly enough, natural human propagation yields the same dynamic, thus the fractal nature of life and the parallel meaning in the bible.

I got a bit silly with it but the point remains God could make the wages of sin be whatever he want's he's God. Orrrr he's not all powerful which probably also means he's mythical or at best seriously misunderstood. At least within the constraints of religious doctrine and dogma.

I think the most absolutely beautiful expression of humanity is loving humanity for humanities sake, that being said, I haven't found too many people that accept and love humanity for what it is, for no other reason than we are simply all human.

In fact they are very far and few between, painfully few and far between.

Most people need to be taught the benefit of cooperation, synergy and symbiosis.

This is why our society is in decline, because people are replacing humanitarian matras with self centered ones, like self serving capitalism.

We are not a country run on religion, but one run on 50 + years of laws that were introduced by corporate lobbies.

What war is against humanitarianism and consciousness is real and because we are humanity we should care about how our destiny is manifested, both on personal and social terms.

 

[genedigger]

every law in society is in the bible and many other religious writings.if you scrap religion then you scrap law and order.natural selection is basicly chaos.religion is what somewhat civilized humans.

 

[Weird]

I will add to the controversy and say that I think most religion was born from mankind that was having "psychedelic" experience, regardless of the vehicle (internal or external) stimulus.

 

[Weird]

I believe that the release of DMT when you die is the death trip in which you see the totality of your deeds juxtapose in the balance and the concept was born from this experience, regardless of what caused the DMT release in the source of the dogmatic writings.

 

[waveguide]

no big bong? giant thread indicates bullshit has no end

 

[HempKat]

John proselytized in the wilderness, his exact dialog I did not recall nor did I have the time to look it up for efficiency.

It does not nullify my statement or my conclusion as I explained, any man who give his life for another will know life everlasting, which is heaven, a seat beside Christ in the heavenly kingdom of God.

Bottom line is Christ showed how easy it was to reconcile to God, look at the thieves on the crosses crucified with him, all he did was recognize Christ, and he was forgiven.

The witch at the well, Peter and Paul, the apostles on whom the church was built, imperfect and still forgiven.

To know the father you must recognize Christ, not portray him in perfection, and Paul talks about this extensively.

This is the meaning of the new testament, renewal of mankind in the conscious not primal image of God, it is about man embracing humanity using the tools of compassion and love.

You are creating an interpretative limit of the grace of God based on how you were taught to read and interpret the bible.

Christ broke many traditional Judaic laws thus evoking the wrath and judgement of the Jewish nation upon him, and he did so to illustrate that our conscious should be the gauge of our decision making, not manipulation of scripture fore the benefit of personal gain.

You did not acknowledge the examples of the grace Christ represented, the simplest, most succinct and direct of his commands being, love your neighbor (all of mankind) and God with all your heart, basically everything but yourself. Put them first and you will know God.

All one needs to do is abandon narcissism and embrace humanity in all its diversity in faith that the good you put out in the world will not go unrequited.

But then again this is the real crux of it

This is what I find most people who argue against God aren't willing to do.

They aren't willing to love humanity unconditionally, and when someone finds a philosophy that opens their mind to being altruistic (Bodhisattva) they attack it as being fantastic.

Projections of their own limits of their being in humanitarian terms.

The logical impasse comes here:

If you truly do not believe there is a God, his judgement should have 0 effect on one's psyche. We do not fear the judgement of Santa Claus past the existence of our belief yet we still remember the positive that is evoked by giving (and the selfish fulfillment of receiving).

So at what point does working against anything that nurtures humanity more productive than refining it so it does so more efficiently?

And if that isn't the motivation behind arguing then what is?

The control of religion over mankind?

If that is the case, your barking up the wrong tree.

The comment I made that started all this was "Yet the bible essentially teaches that such people would be just as at risk of eternal damnation simply because they didn't belong to the right religion or recognize the right embodiment of God." To which you claimed that it doesn't teach that. I then provided proof of that by quoting Jesus from the book of John The Disciple. To which you accused me of taking a different John, John the Prophet out of context. To with I showed you that you were totally off base. Now here you are saying that all one needs to do is believe in Christ as the living embodiment of God. Which is what I was saying but you now try to present it here as if I was saying something different. The thing is, the real point at contention is that if you are Muslim you don't believe in Christ as the living embodiment of God, if you are Jewish you don't believe Christ is the living embodiment of God.

I could go on and list other religions that don't believe in Christ as the living embodiment of God but that would not further the point, which is that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, according to the Bible, one must believe in Christ as the living embodiment of God who died on the cross for mankind's sins so that they wouldn't need to pay the wages of sin but rather could know eternal life simply believing in Christ.

 

[genedigger]

true christianity doesnt teach that christ is the embodiment of god but that he is his son.the jesus is god thing and the trinity were started by pagans who converted to christianity in the first few centuries and took there pagan beliefs with them.read about origen, constantines mom helena,cyril of alexandria,the list is long,the christianity that flourished in the 1st century is much much different than todays mainstream christian religions.

 

[Weird]

The comment I made that started all this was "Yet the bible essentially teaches that such people would be just as at risk of eternal damnation simply because they didn't belong to the right religion or recognize the right embodiment of God." To which you claimed that it doesn't teach that. I then provided proof of that by quoting Jesus from the book of John The Disciple. To which you accused me of taking a different John, John the Prophet out of context. To with I showed you that you were totally off base. Now here you are saying that all one needs to do is believe in Christ as the living embodiment of God. Which is what I was saying but you now try to present it here as if I was saying something different. The thing is, the real point at contention is that if you are Muslim you don't believe in Christ as the living embodiment of God, if you are Jewish you don't believe Christ is the living embodiment of God.

I could go on and list other religions that don't believe in Christ as the living embodiment of God but that would not further the point, which is that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, according to the Bible, one must believe in Christ as the living embodiment of God who died on the cross for mankind's sins so that they wouldn't need to pay the wages of sin but rather could know eternal life simply believing in Christ.

and that nullifies the words I quoted from Christ in which manner?

Please show me a religion with a belief. People hold beliefs, religions are interpretations of God, all vary to an extent, influenced by believers.

You are write about my misquoting John, but the context remains the same, if you want to know Christ you have to love the world around you and God with all your heart and sacrifice the choice of a life based on personal gain versus balanced interaction with your fellow humanity.

You keep quoting all the ways people interpret it that cause division but you don't tell me your interpretation which is all that should matter.

Are they all right? all wrong? some right some wrong, or all partially right and partially wrong at the same time.

Which interpretation benefits all of society and which one does not.

Which one is subject to our shared reality and which one is not.

 

[HempKat]

And anyone who has had a personal revelation knows that the confirmation of the spirit happens within, not through the words of another.

I never claimed otherwise but you still have to either hear or read the words of another to be told of the spirit so you can either confirm or deny it internally. If someone had never heard of the Christian interpretation before they died some how they would have to be presented with this information.

If you can't reconcile the differences in Christianity to your own personal understanding then that in and of itself is the limit of your understanding.

God is the concept of reconciliation of our base/karnal nature because it no longer commands us, because we have embraced our higher consciousness. We have "reconciled" ourselves to the living God.

Trick is your supposed to do this as a Bodhisattva, that is, in faith, not because you know the return of your actions.

What I have trouble with is a written accounting that tells us this and that and is presented as "The Word of God in Written Form" that is rife with inconsistencies that do not reconcile themselves with what God is said to be by the same book.

Because God did not want a clone of himself, but a creation that would choose to love him on it's own accord.

I never suggested man should be a clone of God. Which by the way how on earth do you know what God wanted in this specific regard?

What I said was that God being all powerful could have made man more resistant to temptation such that he might have had a fighting chance at not taking a bite of the apple. That does not mean he would be a clone of God. My point is why would God punish us for not being able to resist what he already knew we couldn't resist?

If you have a child that when left alone you know he can't resist the temptation to play with matches do you then before leaving him alone instruct him not to play with matches as you show him where the matches are or do you just put the matches where he can't get to them?

The Bible is loaded with all manner of inconsistencies that don't match up with what we believe God to be. Like the way he threw temper tantrums and wrought destruction on man for not resisting the vices of his human nature which God built into him. If God is this all knowing supreme being, that is also said to be a God of Love, and a promoter of peace on earth and goodwill towards one another, then it is inconsistent he would be angered to the point of bringing destruction on mankind.

 

[HempKat]

and that nullifies the words I quoted from Christ in which manner?

Please show me a religion with a belief. People hold beliefs, religions are interpretations of God, all vary to an extent, influenced by believers.

You are write about my misquoting John, but the context remains the same, if you want to know Christ you have to love the world around you and God with all your heart and sacrifice the choice of a life based on personal gain versus balanced interaction with your fellow humanity.

You keep quoting all the ways people interpret it that cause division but you don't tell me your interpretation which is all that should matter.

Are they all right? all wrong? some right some wrong, or all partially right and partially wrong at the same time.

Which interpretation benefits all of society and which one does not.

Which one is subject to our shared reality and which one is not.

Where did I ever say something you quoted from Christ was nullified? It's starting to appear to me that you seem to feel one of us has to be right and one of us has to be wrong. If you've been paying attention it should be clear to you that we essentially believe the same things in general we just differ on some of the details.

Also if you have been paying attention to what I've been saying you should have noted that the only thing I'm really at odds with is the bible being held up as the written word of God and therefore should be taken literally. It's history and the way it was compiled and edited numerous times clearly marks it as a man made creation of words written by men with no proof that God influenced their hand as they were writing.

 

[waveguide]

weird isn't paying attention he's maintaining the impression of his authority on the topic by posting in any thread remotely related. total perception management. obviously attempting to focus on criteria for rhetoric ain't happening.


went to genius school in the u.s.. 4 years with a chinese guy, at least 160 iq.. known for keeping mouth shut and making rare, poignant remarks.. week of graduation we find out he's in deep into some chinese christian church, and tells us the whole "yep, even people born on remote islands will go to hell if they don't have a chance to accept christ" deal. used to love that guy.. our jaws all hit the floor and open mouthed.

then we all graduate and he becomes a fucking tank commander in the army.

just in case you ever wonder about the kinds of people that command tanks in the army.

guess he didn't have weird's grade for running false advocacy on teh internetz.

 

[HempKat]

Are they all right? all wrong? some right some wrong, or all partially right and partially wrong at the same time.

Which interpretation benefits all of society and which one does not.

Which one is subject to our shared reality and which one is not.

What all hold in common is that there is just one God. Whether this benefits society in any way other then simplifying things because it is just one God rather then many, is uncertain. Most if not all religions have had moments in history where they were not beneficial to society because they became the reason for war. I would say though this is more the fault of man then the religion itself. Mankind has a funny way of interpreting religion to suit its needs. As exemplified by the zealots and extremists of various religions. I heard it once said that because a passage in the Koran talked of God striking down an enemy of ancient Muslims this is justification for Muslims to strike down any who they see as an enemy. In drawing that conclusion that person is placing himself equal to God. Just because God did it does not mean we should or that it's allowed for us to take such actions. Same is true in Christianity, the bible teaches us that "Judgement is mine sayeth the lord" and yet on a daily basis we feel we are allowed to judge others. Why would or should we when God has instructed us that's his jurisdiction?

 

[HempKat]

every law in society is in the bible and many other religious writings.if you scrap religion then you scrap law and order.natural selection is basicly chaos.religion is what somewhat civilized humans.

That's a faulty brand of logic you are using. Just because religion contains the same laws that are laws of the land does not mean that if you scrap religion law and order is out the window.

Law and order was not established by the bible. Perhaps the people behind the creation of the bible was looking for a better way to control the masses and decided it would be a good idea to show that the laws already in place match up with laws given in the bible.

 

[HempKat]

true christianity doesnt teach that christ is the embodiment of god but that he is his son.the jesus is god thing and the trinity were started by pagans who converted to christianity in the first few centuries and took there pagan beliefs with them.read about origen, constantines mom helena,cyril of alexandria,the list is long,the christianity that flourished in the 1st century is much much different than todays mainstream christian religions.

So John the disciple is a Pagan? I mean he must be because if you go further in chapter 14 of John, specifically John 14: 7-12

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 

[waveguide]

That's a faulty brand of logic you are using.

when did that ever stop anyone from postin in this thread??

"thanks for your well thought out post, in reply here's the textual equivalent of having a toss with an electrolux"

 

[HempKat]

I will add to the controversy and say that I think most religion was born from mankind that was having "psychedelic" experience, regardless of the vehicle (internal or external) stimulus.

It may not be limited to mankind either. Just before Jesus really started his ministry he went into the dessert for 40 days and nights without Food and water. Perhaps he found peyote buttons or other plants containing psychoactive drugs and that it was because of their effects that he came to believe himself to be the son of God? Prior to that the only thing recorded that suggested he was different then other mortals was when he talked at length with the temple elders thereby showing a knowledge that should have been beyond his years. Is that proof he was the son of God? Perhaps but it could also just be he was intellectually gifted compared to most of his peers.

 

[HempKat]

no big bong? giant thread indicates bullshit has no end

Now now, please keep up, everyone abandoned the origin of the universe in favor of debating religion.

 

[DrFever]

Now now, please keep up, everyone abandoned the origin of the universe in favor of debating religion.

Exactly when we look into the sky what do we see the sun . moon and stars when you look in the bible it mentions stars ,,, its all coming together the universe stars moon sun was there @ 0 BC and even well before it surely this is how the sun god and season came into play not from some God so many claim to be real ?? Any nit wit from that time could clearly tell when it was best time to plant , watching nature simple
There has never been a report of A GOD coming down on earth and i would pretty much bet there never will be A god presence anywhere there never has or will be its all here say at its finest
God is the biggest JOKE to man kind you here that god came down to earth as man well then he changed he is not a God anymore but rather a man you cannot be both ????

According to the idiot book we are all descendants of adam and eve ??? like the bible clearly says then why is our DNA different and police catch the real culprits thru DNA samples see what i am getting at
You get posts saying there is no proof there is god or there isn't
but ask your self its been over 2000 years of his coming back lol
Smarten the hell up people over 2000 years and know signs one would think well obviously its BS
some clown from back then just so happened to see a falling star and next thing its sign from GOD Geez
Ask your self how many times your actual prayers have come true ???

Oh ty you lord for putting food on my table WTF you see him put food on your table or did you put the food on the table or your wife surely the fuck wasn't god

 

[trichrider]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/antigravityworldgrid/ciencia_antigravityworldgrid03.htm

BELIEVE...

 

[ghostmade]

Now now, please keep up, everyone abandoned the origin of the universe in favor of debating religion.

Lol i believe they are some what tied together
And with your quotes regarding about jesus being god,and jesus going through the desert and tripping.
Jesus also said i go now unto my father,our father in heaven. when he was resurrected. Its pretty much clear,evrythin in existence is connected.string theory, existence in its self is all connected.
It goes back to the philosophical statement I made. my blood is in my kid and my kids blood is in me. But the blood comes from me. Feel me
Qnd the fasting 40 days and 40 nights is a reson enough for an altered state of mind. I dont believe jesus had an psychedelic experience. I do believe moses did though his first time going up mount cyanide.

Dose it matter? Not really. Just like evrything else ,it is here for a reason.it has a purpose. Like cannabis,tomatoes,herbs, microbiology,whales all serve a purpose.
Its wether or not you believe that it come from a supreme being is all on you.

Just like weird said,understanding and the faith comes from within.if your heart is harden because of the world. You only believe what your told is a fact within science.what is science?what is all this shit you hear on the radio,read in books,see on the internet ane tv? Who do they come from? What is there motive.
Why are there thoughts and actions in secrete.why are the masses excluded from the very thing that should be unto them. Think about it. Who are these people loyal 2? What purpose they serve? But that dose not matter. What matters is
Who are you?
What purpose you serve?
Do you have faith in that purpose?
Then execute your purpose,and be happy
Amen