No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

[Mad Lab]

^^ that's similar to what I meant about humanity being spider mites.

we are.

nature could eliminate our entire species at any moment.

 

[genedigger]

im not part of anything.im just here like the rest of ya'll.i balked against evolution since the 1st time i heard about it in school.its always given me a bad feeling.call me what ever you want but i know what it makes me feel like and thats real to me.

 

[DrFever]

i think of us as microorganisms living

found this on the tube great video you all got to watch it kinda boring but tells you allot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg

 

[Perpetual Nooch]

Anyone can clearly see its all BS Gods lmao shit if any gods should be real why not Egyptian Gods ???? they were well before your Jesus fucking Christ was hahaha 3100 BC years before to be exact hell they even interacted with them in temples if we look today and to be honest they were a much better advanced civilization

Actually, there is a possibility that Judaism, and henceforth Christianity, is just an offshoot/continuance of the Egyptian monotheistic heresy of Atenism.

Most likely the 10 Commandments were copied from the 42 Principles of Maat.

 

[DrFever]

Actually, there is a possibility that Judaism, and henceforth Christianity, is just an offshoot/continuance of the Egyptian monotheistic heresy of Atenism.

Most likely the 10 Commandments were copied from the 42 Principles of Maat.

Interesting



THE 42 COMMANDMENTS OF ANCIENT EGYPT
I. Thou shalt not kill, nor bid anyone kill.
II. Thou shalt not commit adultery or rape.
III. Thou shalt not avenge thyself nor burn with rage.
IV. Thou shalt not cause terror.
V. Thou shalt not assault anyone nor cause anyone pain.
VI. Thou shalt not cause misery.
VII. Thou shalt not do any harm to man or to animals.
VIII. Thou shalt not cause the shedding of tears.
IX. Thou shalt not wrong the people nor bear them any evil intent.
X. Thou shalt not steal nor take that which does not belong to you.
XI. Thou shalt not take more than thy fair share of food.
XII. Thou shalt not damage the crops, the fields, or the trees.
XIII. Thou shalt not deprive anyone of what is rightfully theirs.
XIV. Thou shalt not bear false witness, nor support false allegations.
XV. Thou shalt not lie, nor speak falsely to the hurt of another.
XVI. Thou shalt not use fiery words nor stir up any strife.
XVII. Thou shalt not speak or act deceitfully to the hurt of another.
XVIII. Thou shalt not speak scornfully against others.
XIX. Thou shalt not eavesdrop.
XX. Thou shalt not ignore the truth or words of righteousness.
XXI. Thou shalt not judge anyone hastily or harshly.
XXII. Thou shalt not disrespect sacred places.
XXIII. Thou shalt cause no wrong to be done to any workers or prisoners.
XXIV. Thou shalt not be angry without good reason.
XXV. Thou shalt not hinder the flow of running water.
XXVI. Thou shalt not waste the running water.
XXVII. Thou shalt not pollute the water or the land.
XXVIII. Thou shalt not take God’s name in vain.
XXIX. Thou shalt not despise nor anger God.
XXX. Thou shalt not steal from God.
XXXI. Thou shalt not give excessive offerings nor less than what is due.
XXXII. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.
XXXIII. Thou shalt not steal from nor disrespect the dead.
XXXIV. Thou shalt remember and observe the appointed holy days.
XXXV. Thou shalt not hold back the offerings due God.
XXXVI. Thou shalt not interfere with sacred rites.
XXXVII. Thou shalt not slaughter with evil intent any sacred animals.
XXXVIII. Thou shalt not act with guile or insolence.
XXXIX. Thou shalt not be unduly proud nor act with arrogance.
XL. Thou shalt not magnify your condition beyond what is appropriate.
XLI. Thou shalt do no less than your daily obligations require.
XLII. Thou shalt obey the law and commit no treason.

 

[Midwest sticky]

TBO i thought of that from time to time that we are living in a host
like some sort of bacteria

Exactly. Think about all the microscopic organisms crawling around on our skin and everything else, what makes humanity think that were anything more than micro organisms crawling around on something else?

 

[Mad Lab]

In your mind its not but why ???? Also The mortal enemy of faith is knowledge, a scientific fact that has been demonstrated by researchers at the University of British Columbia. The basis of any religion is that you must believe something someone else tells you is true, even though your mind tells you it is false and it makes no sense to you. There is name for that: fideism. Without fideism -- "exclusive reliance in religious matters upon faith, with consequent rejection of appeals to science or philosophy." -- the concept of religion would not exist.

but hey i challenge your religious roots explain to me why the "devil" was not present in religious texts until the nomadic monotheists ran into polytheists and borrowed the idea ???
In the case of the Bible, often entire verses, stories, and anecdotes were falsified for the sake of making a point. Even the concept of the "holy trinity" is a fabrication created not by any god, but for political reasons by a zealot named Theophilus of of Antioch in 412 AD. Exploit the plot holes, inconsistencies and illogical and impossible things.

The problem you and i run into with our discussion lies with your assumption that science and my faith are mutually exclusive. The only truth in that is i believe an agent is responsible for providing the laws associated with science and our universe. And assuming an agent caused our effect isnt really completely out of the range of science. its actually assumed.

That being said, I dont understand why you cant really accept the 'possibility' of say, deism? Setting my belief in Jesus aside, can you acknowledge the possibility of an agent causing said 'big bang' or perhaps being outside of our time and universe, in a different isolated or not isolated system to create our universe or multi-universes? This is an idea that many scientists can agree is a possibility that can not be ruled out in science. Jesus Christ and other manmade deity claims is a separate issue and does not need to be grouped here because this is another topic.

My choice in believing in Jesus Christ's philosophy is something that has nothing to do with science, not possible, it is purely spiritual, something Retro does not have an issue with.

I respect science. I never discount science. But science cannot teach me have to live a fruitful life. it can aide me in living a healthy life and perhaps a more comfortable life, but this in no way can translate to spirituality and the metaphysical. Science may one day be able to test the metaphysical, do you not consider Tesla a smart man with a brain? Did you forget his opinion on the metaphysical?

“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.”
― Nikola Tesla

When i observe the text in the bible, it is purely for spiritual guidance. I am not doing the same dissecting as an atheist would, I am not looking for scientific facts or theories or evidence. Why would i? I only look for experience and wisdom. And it only made sense to me when i lived life, and made many many mistakes and observed the consequences. At that point I realized every piece of advice given, (through a story or direct advice) was valid for me.

Jesus has proven to me that his philosophy is better for me to live a fruitful and complete life regardless of how good or bad my situation is.

And as i said before, I did many things before I decided to choose Christ's path, i was blessed with many life experiences good and bad, it didnt come from ignorance or stupidity. Everything in my life was great when i came to my conclusion, i wasnt in need of anything besides this spiritual void.

So again Dr,
I'm not going to spout out my education like Retro, no need for a pissing contest (too much of that here on IC anyway), but i assure you I do not discount science. I do not worship it, i do not assume every fact is truth and will never change, because thats science, it alters it facts and upgrades them as well, also throws them out entirely. there is not truth in that, but its still a beautiful thing at the same time, it doesnt need to be the truth and its not even trying to be. some people just cant help but group science and spirituality and accuse others that they are doing it. some christians do, i dont, but you certainly do if you observe your comments

i hope this posts helps you understand where im coming from. i spent many years studying, and i wasnt in need of a god.

try and understand, science is my physical life. but i have a spiritual one, and its non-violent. it also helps me attempt and possibly succeed at loving and being kind to everyone i meet. maybe you can do this without god, maybe you choose another belief, but if its peaceful and loving, is it so bad for you?

you claim to understand the difference between muslim and extremist. its the extremist thats the issue not the muslim. but yes, there are also some faiths that believe in justification in mass murder with no clause requiring self defense or aiding in another innocent parties self defense. these faiths are understandably up for debate because they affect us, ie other people around them. when you violate another humans agency that is a universal truth that i believe we all can agree shouldnt be allowed to be violated. but my faith doesnt preach that. you may associate me with similar faith that do, but this is heresay, it is not my faith. the crusades were not my faith, and it was an abuse, not the philosophy. i think you can agree christians in these countries we speak of are non-violent. if they are violent, it is picking up arms in self-defense.

Again, Nikola Tesla.. Retro, this is the guy without a brain:

“When we speak of man, we have a conception of humanity as a whole, and before applying scientific methods to the investigation of his movement we must accept this as a physical fact. But can anyone doubt to-day that all the millions of individuals and all the innumerable types and characters constitute an entity, a unit? Though free to think and act, we are held together, like the stars in the firmament, with ties inseparable. These ties cannot be seen, but we can feel them. I cut myself in the finger, and it pains me: this finger is a part of me. I see a friend hurt, and it hurts me, too: my friend and I are one. And now I see stricken down an enemy, a lump of matter which, of all the lumps of matter in the universe, I care least for, and it still grieves me. Does this not prove that each of us is only part of a whole?
For ages this idea has been proclaimed in the consummately wise teachings of religion, probably not alone as a means of insuring peace and harmony among men, but as a deeply founded truth. The Buddhist expresses it in one way, the Christian in another, but both say the same: We are all one. Metaphysical proofs are, however, not the only ones which we are able to bring forth in support of this idea. Science, too, recognizes this connectedness of separate individuals, though not quite in the same sense as it admits that the suns, planets, and moons of a constellation are one body, and there can be no doubt that it will be experimentally confirmed in times to come, when our means and methods for investigating psychical and other states and phenomena shall have been brought to great perfection. Still more: this one human being lives on and on. The individual is ephemeral, races and nations come and pass away, but man remains. Therein lies the profound difference between the individual and the whole.”


―Nikola Tesla

 

[Midwest sticky]

Dr. Fever nice list, but I can't agree with number three Im a firm believer in vengeance. Sometimes it is needed.

 

[Mad Lab]

Interesting



THE 42 COMMANDMENTS OF ANCIENT EGYPT
I. Thou shalt not kill, nor bid anyone kill.
II. Thou shalt not commit adultery or rape.
III. Thou shalt not avenge thyself nor burn with rage.
IV. Thou shalt not cause terror.
V. Thou shalt not assault anyone nor cause anyone pain.
VI. Thou shalt not cause misery.
VII. Thou shalt not do any harm to man or to animals.
VIII. Thou shalt not cause the shedding of tears.
IX. Thou shalt not wrong the people nor bear them any evil intent.
X. Thou shalt not steal nor take that which does not belong to you.
XI. Thou shalt not take more than thy fair share of food.
XII. Thou shalt not damage the crops, the fields, or the trees.
XIII. Thou shalt not deprive anyone of what is rightfully theirs.
XIV. Thou shalt not bear false witness, nor support false allegations.
XV. Thou shalt not lie, nor speak falsely to the hurt of another.
XVI. Thou shalt not use fiery words nor stir up any strife.
XVII. Thou shalt not speak or act deceitfully to the hurt of another.
XVIII. Thou shalt not speak scornfully against others.
XIX. Thou shalt not eavesdrop.
XX. Thou shalt not ignore the truth or words of righteousness.
XXI. Thou shalt not judge anyone hastily or harshly.
XXII. Thou shalt not disrespect sacred places.
XXIII. Thou shalt cause no wrong to be done to any workers or prisoners.
XXIV. Thou shalt not be angry without good reason.
XXV. Thou shalt not hinder the flow of running water.
XXVI. Thou shalt not waste the running water.
XXVII. Thou shalt not pollute the water or the land.
XXVIII. Thou shalt not take God’s name in vain.
XXIX. Thou shalt not despise nor anger God.
XXX. Thou shalt not steal from God.
XXXI. Thou shalt not give excessive offerings nor less than what is due.
XXXII. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.
XXXIII. Thou shalt not steal from nor disrespect the dead.
XXXIV. Thou shalt remember and observe the appointed holy days.
XXXV. Thou shalt not hold back the offerings due God.
XXXVI. Thou shalt not interfere with sacred rites.
XXXVII. Thou shalt not slaughter with evil intent any sacred animals.
XXXVIII. Thou shalt not act with guile or insolence.
XXXIX. Thou shalt not be unduly proud nor act with arrogance.
XL. Thou shalt not magnify your condition beyond what is appropriate.
XLI. Thou shalt do no less than your daily obligations require.
XLII. Thou shalt obey the law and commit no treason.

Thats alot, and alot of good ones.

Although Protestants dont have any commandments, it really only has one:

Believe in me (Jesus)

All the rest will come.

Catholics and most additions to true Christianity do not believe this though. They believe in keeping the Old testiments commandments, although Jesus voided them, claiming them to be just a chance for man to prove he could not sin, but of course that was impossible.

This is the difference between Jesus and Protestant and all other faiths, whether other forms of christianity and also majority of other religions: Works. They are all works-related programs ro get into heaven.

Jesus says when you believe in me you will want to do good things, so dont worry about doing them, worry about loving first.

Regardless of your beliefs, faith has been proven to be healthier for human beings. praying to a higher power has also been proven to be healthy for us. psychology tells us this. a form of science yes? believing you know the truth that no god exists... i doubt has been proven to be an aide for mental health.

It doesnt really matter if it violates your truth when we are talking about what is better for mankind. hope and giving up control of your life (you have none, and the kind you do have my philosophy also teaches to make intelligent decisions based on physical and also spiritual knowledge).
it's a good thing, that science doesnt offer. this is why spirituality and science are separate. although they must interact because is science we also have philosophy. an example in the title of this thread. physic philosophy. the agent case is always present.

so why hate on health? your truth doesnt set anyone free.. and trust me, you want more spiritually healthy individuals roaming this earth as opposed to 'enlightened' ones worried. when you realize mankind is doomed in terms of science then you start finding a public attitude such as "i dont know what will happen tomorrow, i should take all i can get while i can get it" which is just no good...

 

[GMT]

Lol, where did you get that protestants don't have the commandments? Do you think henry did away with them? He didn't.

 

[DrFever]

In your mind its not but why ???? Also The mortal enemy of faith is knowledge, a scientific fact that has been demonstrated by researchers at the University of British Columbia. The basis of any religion is that you must believe something someone else tells you is true, even though your mind tells you it is false and it makes no sense to you. There is name for that: fideism. Without fideism -- "exclusive reliance in religious matters upon faith, with consequent rejection of appeals to science or philosophy." -- the concept of religion would not exist.

but hey i challenge your religious roots explain to me why the "devil" was not present in religious texts until the nomadic monotheists ran into polytheists and borrowed the idea ???
In the case of the Bible, often entire verses, stories, and anecdotes were falsified for the sake of making a point. Even the concept of the "holy trinity" is a fabrication created not by any god, but for political reasons by a zealot named Theophilus of of Antioch in 412 AD. Exploit the plot holes, inconsistencies and illogical and impossible things.

So MAd how come you have not explained about the devil but rather move onto other things

 

[DrFever]

Many believers try to rationalize God's existence by saying something like this: "The existence of the universe proves God's existence. Something had to create the universe. Science has no explanation for the universe's creation. Therefore, God created it."

The way to understand that this is a rationalization is to look back in history. Ancient people, before they had science, explained many things that they did not understand with "gods." There have been sun gods, thunder gods, fertility gods, rain gods, etc.

The Bible works the same way. It tries to explain many things that its ancient authors did not understand by attributing them in God. For example, if you read Genesis 9:12-13 you will find this:

And God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations: I set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth..."
This is the Bible's explanation of rainbows. Of course we now know that rainbows are a prismatic effect of raindrops. In the same way, Genesis chapter 3 tries to explain why human childbirth is so painful and Genesis chapter 11 tries to explain why there are so many human languages. These are myths, nothing more.
In the same way, Genesis chapter 1 contains the Bible's creation myth. The creation of the universe and life is attributed to God. We already know that God had nothing to do with the creation of life, but religious people still try to attribute the creation of the universe to God.

The fact is, God had nothing to do with the creation of the universe, in the same way that God has nothing to do with the sun rising or rainbows appearing. Science does not have a complete explanation for the universe's creation, yet. While it is true that science does not yet know everything there is to know about the universe, scientists will eventually figure it out. When they do, what they will find is that nature created the universe, not an imaginary being.

 

[DrFever]

I see a huge difference between you and me Mad for one i believe in real events you believe in make belief events you look to your god for the meaning of life ,, i just go about my life the best i can , with out a worry and i do not need to answer to anybody
But you do right ????
If we were in a court and with out hard evidence you be locked up in jail matter of fact probably sent to a mental hospital
Here are a few things you should ask your self

There is no scientific evidence indicating that God exists. We all know that. For example:

God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.
None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either.
The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone
When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers
Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God.
And so on…

 

[RetroGrow]

No father willingly lets his children suffer. The god myth is the story of an imaginary sadist, made up thousands of years ago by the ignorant to supplicate the more ignorant. I could never lie to a child to allay their fears by manufacturing false gods. If not for the fact of evolution, "believers" in witchcraft would still be tadpoles. Those who deny evolution are morons, and know nothing about science or nature. They willingly close their tiny minds in order to patronize their ghosts. Beyond absurd.

 

[Mad Lab]

Lol, where did you get that protestants don't have the commandments? Do you think henry did away with them? He didn't.

yes. do the research.

those are universal truths that all men have biological instilled. these were set in stone to show man he could not to live up to these universal moral laws and if he did not, he didnt deserve to live because he violated another mans agency. we feel guilt at first, which means we knew we did something wrong, and in a secular world you dont deserve to redeem yourself, god offers you the chance.

these books were written in a time where mans comprehension was limited. these were written for men to understand in ancient times and also to be understand by us in modern times.

If instructions were to be given in 10,000 BC +, it would need to be a process, and that is what the book is, a process of showing mankind certain lessons. if they are parables, so be it, they are understood.

Jesus changed things, it was a process, and he said if you believe in me, you will do the commandments out of love. basically it makes it easier to choose the positive choose when making decisions. not really trying so hard. the ten commandments exist for all men, but these are not commandments for us anymore, just moral laws that will result in consequences if broken.

once again, this isnt a science book, its a morality book. you dont seem to get that. you keep wanting to attach science to this book or belief and thats just not correct. any scientist would tell you your comments are meaningless in a conversation together.

So MAd how come you have not explained about the devil but rather move onto other things

whats your question about the devil?

an opposing force to good. when we say bad and good, it would reference the bad.

dont you need to have bad to have good?

how could you have happiness and freewill without sadness and slavery? suffering is necessary, or we would be sheep. robots. if there was no bad there would be no good.

is that a difficult concept?

 

[armedoldhippy]

well, XVIII, XXIV, & XXXIX have been violated repeatedly in this thread alone, LOL!

 

[GMT]

Mad, I was raised c of e. Sunday school every week etc as a kid. We deffo covered the commanments. No further research needed.
And frankly, if you don't believe the bible to be the word of god, then there is no need to defend it. Just another philosophy to accept or reject filled with sophistry, making it a lesser philosophy. No one is saying Jesus was an arsehole, a little nuts maybe, but its the tales of his old man , not the gay one, the one in the sky, that causes the problems. After all, gods are really for those who don't have the imagination to think up their own imaginary friends.

 

[Pinnate]

and for pinnate, i assure you i have a brain.

I don't recall saying you didn't . . .

 

[Vash]

"If you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way."

Stevie Wonder

 

[Pinnate]

This apparent yearning for an omnipotent "Heavenly Father" probably has a lot to do with the size of one's amygdala . . . ?