New part-time thread.

[GMT]

Hi Pack, Yeah I followed the before and after instructions to the letter, those parts I got just perfect, is was the during that I screwed up.

Well I have spoken to 1Toke, and he solved the mystery, seems it was down to me not the magic formula. Once I had translated the bicarb, I thought I was good to go, but I auto translated one ingredient, rather than doing the research. Apple cider vinegar is necessary; not vinegar. Some of the later recipes listed, just used the word vinegar, don't make the same mistake I did and use normal vinegar. Here in the uk, apple cider vinegar is pretty tough to find, what ever you do DONT SUBSTITUTE NORMAL VINEGAR. I used the type of vinegar that they would use in a fish and chip shop. It seems that apple cider vinegar is something completely different. So I guess there's a new moral to the story, follow the instructions, not what you think the instructions say, lol.

 

[1TokeRedeux]

And dare I say it again, test on one plant!!!! Don't risk yer entire grow!!! If it works you only lost a night. Patience and attention to detail when workin with the babies.....

Sorry I wasn't back sooner to catch this bro. Did any of the apple cider links help in locating a source for you guys?

What would help a great deal is some sort of comparison from US to UK. If the stuff isn't readily available there, we have to have something nearly equivelant - after all, the final mix reacts and explodes carbonic acid, just a fizz drink. What do the UK kids do in science class to demonstrate the bicarb and vinegar reaction....just a thought.

It might help to look for chemical equivelants rather than names.

"....To understand how and why this mix works I had to get a grasp on what happens when a vinegar+baking soda reaction occurs:

Acid/base neutralization:
HC2H3O2 (acetic acid) + HCO3- (bicarbonate ion) ----> H
H2CO3 (carbonic acid) + C2H3O2- (acetate ion)
H2CO3 -----> H2O + CO2
The foaming is the liberation of CO2 gas when carbonic acid dissociates.
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askas...9/chem99183.htm

My thinking is the carbonic acid if not dissociated yet may be too strong on new and tender growth (clones, seedlings, sprouts). Small trade-off if the infestation is advanced. The plant isn't harmed and recovers with healthy new growth (which would not be there if infested with mites). So, is this mix effective only as long as there is carbonation? This would explain the limited shelf life, it should be prepared and used immediately for the best results. When the pop goes flat we need a new batch.

Now I have to figure out what sodium acetate does to the mites, or its' contribution to the whole. Of particular interest is imploding the adult mites and exploding the eggs."

 

[GMT]

Hi 1Toke, thanks for those links, they let me know just what I was looking for.
Seems it is available over here, but you have to mail order it. I searched for somewhere that I would be happy to order it from, without drawing any suspision. I'm still not sure if ingredients like apple peel, washing up liquid (does that mean a squirt of fairly liquid or something else?) lemon juice and epsom salts are necessary or just add on that peeps have included. The chemical process may also help some folks although to be honest that kind of thing goes right over my head. The bicarb is available here from chemists, and the other ingredients if needed available from supermarkets, but the best place I found over here for the apple cider vinegar is this
http://www.worldwideshoppingmall.co.uk/body-soul/apple-cider-vinegar.asp
Free delivery to uk and europe.
Thanks again for helping out 1Toke.

 

[Guest]

Hey GMT ,i grow with Organics only, as a rule.I had the worst Mite attack in the world a bit ago,lol,and used every Organic thing i could think of and it slowed them down,looked a little better,but never really did the trick.So i decided to try something more drastic ,i was afraid of losing the whole room,they looked disgusting/No Pest Strips /now ive heard things ,pro's and con's but i needed help.These things are a Bud saver,lol.I put one in each room and after 2 weeks =NOTHIN.I could see there dead crushed bodies under the leaves bud none of those crabs were living.You can use them just til it starts to clear up and remove them to somewhere outside the room,then keep everything clean and once in a while i use Fungicide 3(just for maintinance) which is Organic and i have no problem since not even a little.Im telling you,i could not believe how they worked,and the bud had no neg taste or effect afterwards and greened up pretty damn fast.Only cost $5 a piece and there the poop.Peace and stay safe,DancesWithWeed.

 

[GMT]

Thanks DWW, No Pest Strips, is that their trade name? I'll have a search on them and see if I can get them over here too. I am normally an anti globalisation type of guy, (support your local shops) but at times like these, it sure is tempting to change my mind lol.

 

[Guest]

Hey Bro there Hot Shot No Pest Strips,there this white plastic holder with vents and a yellow insert in them and you just hang it in the room.I got them at Home Depot but they sell them at most spots where bug spray etc is sold.Peace and stay safe,DancesWithWeed.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

sorry GMT.... it happens to us all though Death, that is Consider it an expensive lesson.

 

[Mr GreenJeans]

GMT - so so sorry to hear, man that sucks. You are very good at problem solving, having already pieced together what happened.

Without thinking about it I've been using FullyMeltedDomes solution since last fall - a NoPest strip hung on the air circulation fan inside, some member was using it last fall. That and mixing in a cup of diatomaceous earth per pot of soil. So far I've been lucky.

Wish I lived close by so I could bring by some cheering up materials

 

[GMT]

MMM, thanks, yeah it is an expensive lesson, but at least we know what to do now. The power of the internet means that 1 guys mistakes allow lots of others to avoid em, so at least we all know now that deviating from 1Tokes miracle recipe can be hazzardous to your plants. I have still yet to try it for myself (correctly) but others seem to have had good results from it.

MGJ, thanks mate, I wish you lived closer too. Please read this next bit carefully:

Now an important warning, I found this on the internet when researching the No Pest Strips. DWW, MGJ, read carefully:

EPA to Restrict Some Uses of Pest Strip Insecticide

The EPA, in response to a request from pesticide product manufacturer AMVAC, is poised to restrict some uses of a common “pest strip” insecticide known as DDVP, or diclorvos. DDVP is an organophosphate insecticide, a class of highly toxic pesticides. Low-level exposure to DDVP can cause headaches, nausea, and vomiting; large doses of the poison can be fatal. Laboratory studies have also shown that DDVP can cause cancer; California classifies it as a “known carcinogen,” and the World Health Organization and the EPA name it a “possible human carcinogen.”

The largest of the pest strips, often used in homes, will be completely removed from the market. The second-largest size will be limited to use in garages, attics, crawl spaces, and sheds where people spend fewer than four hours each day. The smallest size pest strip will be restricted for use in closets, wardrobes, and cupboards. Pest strips impacted include AlcoR No-Pest Strip, AMVAC Insect Strip, AlcoR Pest Strip, AMVAC No-Pest Strip, and Swat Pest Strip.

Environmental health advocates asserted that EPA and AMVAC are not going far enough; the advocates say that all home uses of DDVP should be cancelled because the pesticide is one of the most potent toxins currently on the market.

"All of these uses inside the home are dangerous things. That's what is of most concern," said Aaron Colangelo of the Natural Resources Defense Council. He noted that DDVP is already banned in Great Britain, Denmark, and Sweden.

For information on how to combat insects and other pests in the home using integrated pest management (IPM) instead of high-toxicity pesticides, see www.afhh.org/dah/dah_pesticides.htm and www.beyondpesticides.org.

 

[GMT]

I'm just adding solutions that I find online, no idea if they work but the simpler they are the more likely I am to add em. Here's one I just found:

You can mix up some solutions for pest control that are safe - and you probably have the ingredients right in your kitchen! To get rid of green aphids and mites - Mix 1 tablespoon of liquid soap and 1 cup vegetable oil. Dilute a teaspoon of this solution in a cup of water and spray on aphids and mites.


A uk site offering chemical and preditor solutions
http://www.hydrohobby.co.uk/x303.html
Although I have never used them and dont know if they are safe

Everyone in the uk knows of growell, seems they have a few solutions, here's one i like the look of http://www.growell.co.uk/p/1146/Spidermite_control.html

 

[1TokeRedeux]

If I'm not mistaken the Spidermite Control in the square black bottle contains the Eradicator formula. Variants that also seem to work are citrus acid, orange peels blended with water, apple peels (doesn't seem as effective as citrus). The dish soap is liquid hand dishwashing detergent and a few drops give the mix clinging properties to the leaves.

The major problems with the chemicals is the borgs learn it and become immune to it eventually, they don't seem to be able to become immune to naturally occuring substances.

 

[packn2puff]

I remember when pest strips first came out..at least popular..it was right around the early 70's I think..everybody had um hanging..the triangle box that holds the strip..
Yeah those things are serious pesticide..I didn't realize they were still around..
I was wondering about dish soaps too..they come with all kinds of junk in them now..like anti-bacterial, fragrances and what not..Is it something like Dove soap you want that doesn't have all that..because you are just using it to break up water surface tension..and act as a wetting agent right..
I remember this guy on PBS that was a lawn guru..he made a pesticide treatment out of mostly household things and explained each one...this was a few years ago..but I think he used dish soap, beer, some sort of vinegar, I think citrus, like lemons...
It's all too foggy now..I wish I could see it again..cause it sounds a lot like this formula..

 

[Mr GreenJeans]

GMT - thanks for the heads up - guess I better stop the NoPest strip... hmmm - maybe I shudda stopped when my third arm started growing... out of my forehead

Man, these enivromental types spoil all my heavy weapon insecticide fun... WAAAAAAHHHHH

Yesterday I found another spray - pyrethrins ( not permethrin ) and canola oil... by Safer. Figure I can get a similar effect with a light spray to the walls and floor once a week or so.

The soap I got to use with neem oil, Ivory Soap Dishwashing Liquid. No additives. Soaps in general much up insects, interfering with the pores in their outer shell. Such a pita to dip a 3 foot plant though...

 

[GMT]

Thanks 1Toke, my veg area and flower area were right next to each other, I've now separated them to opposite sides of the room. In a few weeks the flowering girl will be out and nothing will be ready to go in there. I'm hoping a break in the food source will also help to cut their numbers. I'm only hoping for the seeds to make it, or I'd just toss that plant now.
Lol MGJ, maybe I should ignore the warnings then, I often wish I had a thrid hand. When you say to use soap on my plants, are you saying I'm hanging out with dirty girls? I have to be carefull with pesticides anyway, they play havoc with asthma.
Hi Pack, next time I try getting them pissed on whskey, I'll also add some orange peels and a touch of some freindly soap, and let it sit for a while before use. I think I'll just let this go now though till I kill her off. I took some pics of her, not becuase I'm proud, but to continue with the seed time line. I also made em big for you lol.

The whole plant (ish)

 

[packn2puff]

The 2nd pic looks like a war zone...another victim of the Borg..

"....and I will strike thee down with great vengeance..."

 

[Alex-F]

You got the borg Sorry to hear mate, hope you get it sorted out.

 

[Guest]

"....and I will strike thee down with great vengeance..."

...and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers..... erg.. plants

Wish the best for ya GMT.... good luck

 

[GMT]

Pack, it was a war zone till I hit the wrong button. I went for the phasers, and accidentally hit the doomsday device button. So much more damage than was necessary.
Alex, I've had em the last couple of summers, they like to holliday here when the weather gets nice, trying to serve em an eviction notice, but they keep on assimilating the balifs.
Agnes, lots of people make promises, and so few follow through.
The stones sang that "you may not get what you want, but if you try real hard, you may just get what ya need". Here's hoping.

 

[Guest]

The stones sang that "you may not get what you want, but if you try real hard, you may just get what ya need".

I like that

I think everybody on icmag in breathing for this plant...

 

[GMT]

Don't ya hate it when ya just finish writing a post and all of a sudden the screen changes to a message that the page has expired!
Well, what I was writing was a post to say that I have just finished trimming up that plant in order to reduce the work that she has to do. I figure if she has less to do (now that she has so few healthy leaves to collect energy with), she should be able to do what she needs to a little easier. I opened up a few of the seed pods that have been removed in order to see how far along the seeds have developed, and found the pic below. They still aren't ready yet, but only about a week left on the earliest ones, and the later pollination sites should be ready in around 2 weeks. The plant may even grow a little smoke for me yet, as there are a few new pistils developing in places. Next time I grow this girl (and I have taken a clone) I will not pollinate her, and hopefully, wont advertise the free housing to the mite community, nor will I destroy the leaves by spraying something I shouldn't on them. So I should be able to get the copious jucy buds from her yet. Here are the early seeds, although the pic is too small to allow it to be posted big, the site wont allow it.