New Greenhouse and operational advice with employees

[Palindrome]

Let's try to keep it on topic!
It's the greenhouse forum, try not to turn it into a debate on politics and capitalism. Not the right place, we have other forums for that.

 

[Smith111]

First, i want to say I'm not happy about all these new investment grows. For one, it ruins our way of life because it puts the mom n pops out of business. It puts money in investors pockets instead of our community. Second, allot of these investment grows are doomed to fail. Also, we don't really even need more weed. We are growing too much and its killing our market.
That said, most of these investment grows will fail. These guys have to go out buy land, get the most gucci setups for hundreds of thousands, do licensing. That will add up to millions. They need to pay hella overhead and taxes.. And homie needs to pay back his investors and make them profit!
I would never put my energy into something like that, but if Smith wants to, more power to him.

I have no investors or partners. Just labor i need pay for. My greenhouses are as efficient as they get and cost peanuts to put up. Will produce the same weed at a wayyy lower cost. I don't have gutter connected greenhouses. Why would i. Long, low, separate tunnels solves all the problems that gutter connected greenhouses solve with insane roof vents and multiple curtain systems. I love to geek out on that stuff but I'd never put my money into it. The most expensive gutter connected setup in the world isn't going to be more efficient to heat, or stay cooler in the hot months, or do anything different.

I don't have 20 acres of canopy but i got more then smith will probably start with or expand to...it's all mine. My margins are damn slim. God bless these investor grows

The company I am partnering up with, has millions of dollars in infrastructure already. Fenced and secure with security forces around a 20+ acre facility that already exist, on a several hundred acre property. They have a water treatment plant, 400 gallon a minute water production capability and a power plant near by. Simplot is only a hop and a skip away. So, with zero down, we have all this........ Hardly a Gucci start up tag.

I am interested in how your greenhouses stay cool and get heated. You say a gutter connected system wont be more efficient, but I doubt this. Please elaborate. For cooling, a water wall will bring the summer temps from 105, to 80. No ac needed. During the winter, the temps seldom go below 35, if at all. I am trying to develop a solid heating plan right now, but would love to hear how you accomplish this.

Would love to come and check out your greenhouses if you are willing. Maybe you are right, and I am thinking about this all wrong. Lets chop it up!

 

[Smith111]

94-97% of licensed cannabis startups fail in the first 18 months, cutting cost and consistency are the key to survive. One of the biggest hurdles is you cant deduct business expenses.

Where did you get this number from? Would love to study these statistics.

 

[Smith111]

Speaking of not being able to deduct expenses, there are still alot of rebate and cash incentives for using lower wattage 600w instead of 1k led lights and renewable energy instead of main grid power.

I found a great article on some of the sterilization equipment being ran on large scale operations. The one that claims it takes buds that failed testing and makes them pass peaked my interest alot...

https://www.marijuanaventure.com/mold-reducing-technologies/

Been looking into the new LED fixtures for greenhouses. They are really tempting. Start up cost is more expensive by 60%. However operational costs drop 10% every crop by my calculations, with better light spectrum. Seems like a no brainier, but the start up capital is high.

 

[Smith111]

I had a moment where I thought what is going to happen to all of the jobs for just about everyone once robots replace us? Factories mega farms and what not? You pick jobs away one by one and there's a point where it looks like there is a decline in employment opportunities, something like that. The future is not certain. Looking around, it seems like there's always construction. As in build a big concrete slab and structure that could be an office space or warehouse or something, first. Like a commercial property that costs millions to build. Then, after that is done, fill the thing up with little plants and stuff. And a maximum amount of special equipment, what ever is in the budget. And what if the investors are tobacco and alcohol, could be just setting up shop because it is legal and then build and buy dispensaries anywhere to sell the stuff? That is just a different setup from residential space or owning a farm or locally produced. It is sad to think of the consequences for this interstate commerce, what you call capitalism, life is not fair etc. While I support the using the sun and conserving natural resources ideally, the fact is residential power cost here is too high to turn a profit growing. A large investor facility has lower power cost most likely which leverages or capitalizes an advantage. In other words to operate as a business you lower one party's costs or bills on everything by 90% while giving the keys to 10 or 100 times the production. The flip side to that, what you say isn't fair, is that one owner has to pay ten times as much for every single thing at the counter, in order for the large business to stay competitive in its own market. You say capitalism is about making money not fair, without the tax break profit would not be there. That supports a money = power to decide what other people do with their time way of thinking. If someone worked for minimum wage since they were a teenager and sees cannabis legalization, you have a supervisor and make $15 an hour, instead of just having your own place or business and making $15 an hour, then it doesn't feel like anything legalized instead working for the police. And it does not feel like the same people who voted or made it happen by being there when it was not the same. I don't want to make any claims but you are speaking about capitalism as if it is a good thing, to someone or maybe people potentially at the bottom of the totem pole socioeconomic financially speaking.

We have already contacted Japan and India for robotic help. It's happening, and it's reality. Sorry.

 

[Smith111]

I didn't realize that cannabis qualifies for ag power. That's actually kind of messed up. I need to pay 40 cents + a kw for my home power but llicenced ganja gets ag?
The point of ag power is for real farming. It allows us to grow food at a reasonable cost. Not some warehouse to produce ganja. Warehouse growing is such a resource drain it should be discouraged.

I have 2 sets off lights in my greenhouse. led spotlights to just keep plants awake which is about 9 sq ft per watt. And i have hids. I figured out my cost for diesel fuel to be about 14 cent per kwh. There is only 2-3 months out of the year that i actually had to use those hid's much, so i decided to just skip the 1 run a year.
I feel like we should be encouraging greenhouse production and encouraging growers to skip that single mid winter run. We can grow enough weed in that 9 months to make it through the 3 months we can't harvest without hid.

Hid lighting is not agriculture. It's a resource waste. We don't use hid for any other crop because no other crop fetches $ like weed. Why give weed the power break.

lol, you don't have to pay any fees or taxes, yet the power bill is unfair...... I have to pay 10k a month to my city, just to operate my dispensary. The price tag in taxes per month on the grow come out to about 60k. Not to mention the 60% tax rate at the federal level....... I think you still have the big advantage! lol.

 

[LostTribe]

The company I am partnering up with, has millions of dollars in infrastructure already. Fenced and secure with security forces around a 20+ acre facility that already exist, on a several hundred acre property. They have a water treatment plant, 400 gallon a minute water production capability and a power plant near by. Simplot is only a hop and a skip away. So, with zero down, we have all this........ Hardly a Gucci start up tag.

I am interested in how your greenhouses stay cool and get heated. You say a gutter connected system wont be more efficient, but I doubt this. Please elaborate. For cooling, a water wall will bring the summer temps from 105, to 80. No ac needed. During the winter, the temps seldom go below 35, if at all. I am trying to develop a solid heating plan right now, but would love to hear how you accomplish this.

Would love to come and check out your greenhouses if you are willing. Maybe you are right, and I am thinking about this all wrong. Lets chop it up!

What the heck is a water wall and how are you going to get a delta T of -25 without AC?

Sounds interesting as for heat what can be done in colder climates with 60 plus days below freezing?

 

[Mengsk]

Sunlight is best for photosynthesis and crop production. Light inside from solar can be for little more than keeping cuttings or small plants around. I can check out from this discussion personally. My earlier comments are for a general purpose/example. I can grow food here at home micro scale.

Larger as in connected or more sq. ft. will insulate better. Two layers 1-2' apart can work instead of inflated dual layer plastic. If a more permanent structure already exists that's one thing but there is always an argument to be made for covering the maximum amount of land possible with the lowest cost structures available. So pvc instead of steel and skip the concrete altogether. Some structures look like a bomb shelter, 10+ years at least or in other words built to code. While plants are meant to grow outside unprotected. A single layer of greenhouse plastic or panel is a large delta or may be sufficient, depending on weather conditions. While I would like to suggest some organic sustainable practices to improve the land maybe as simple as shipping mineral supplements, in practice the least expensive biosolids are going to be suspect for contamination with one thing or another. Composting or hauling wood chips or growing cover crops 2-3 years ahead of time may or may not be in the business plan.

Keeping black water jugs inside will conserve heat energy and thermal/solar panels can just be made out of black plastic tubing. Use mist sprayers like the ones for produce to raise humidity and lower temperature. Where it freezes a lot, smaller hoop houses inside the larger one with row covers. Or geothermal heat from underground tunnels. Or a greenhouse that is recessed like a swimming pool. For heating look into wood gas stoves or thermal mass if you have the space/money.

 

[Ibechillin]

Where did you get this number from? Would love to study these statistics.

That should have said "all startups" instead of just cannabis, it was something Nate said in a marijuana industry insight Growers Network video and thought he meant marijuana related startups specifically. I searched into it more today and the percentages as well as start-end timelines for startups in general are all over the place depending on where you look. i was under the impression Grower House/Network was credible info...

Been looking into the new LED fixtures for greenhouses. They are really tempting. Start up cost is more expensive by 60%. However operational costs drop 10% every crop by my calculations, with better light spectrum. Seems like a no brainier, but the start up capital is high.

See about getting a lighting quote from https://growrebates.com/ they can reduce the cost of the led fixtures by up to 90%, they finance the lights and you only pay the after rebate amount established through your power company.

 

[GatorGumbo]

So you've only farmed an acre, probably outdoor, and I'm toxic for telling you that you're in over your head trying to launch a multi-million dollar project?

Dude, if you were doing this right you wouldn't have time to "chop it up" with dudes on the internet. Furthermore, if you are so tapped into cannabis like you claim you would know the industry of it is full of shysters— so you have no basis to imply that I am being cynical. You need to check your ego, bro.

 

[Mengsk]

Also now that it is raining I am wondering about the cheap hoop house argument. Undecided whether I will modify (or actually finish as originally planned) this 3/4" sch 40 hoop house with pvc center supports or remake it using steel or 1 1/2" pvc.

 

[CrushnYuba]

I think yall shouldn't be giving Smith too hard of a time. I don't think y'all realize that the grow he is talking about isn't really that big. It's norcal. We grow cannabis for a living here. No one gives me shit for my unlicensed "commercial" cannabis production. I already had all this land and infrastructure in place before the new licencing system came about. I was doing things legally under the old system when it was put up. And I'm just not convinced buying into the new state will be profitable.
Smith: i am happy with my power situation for growing. I don't like that weed warehouses pay less for power then i do at my primary residence that i don't even grow much at. I think we should encourage smart use of resources.
Why wouldn't low separate tunnels with high sidewalls be cheaper to heat and cool? Gutter connecting makes sidewall vents useless. Fan venting and wet wall cooling only works a short distance. It comes in cool but 40ft into the greenhouse, it's just hot moist air. A tall 24' wide greenhouse with high sidewall vents and a low peek to trap air will be the same temp inside as outside with no fan or water cooling. Then throw high pressure mist system in and it will be cooler then outside. And this is uniform temperature down the whole greenhouse that you won't get with fan cooling. Venting sidewall to sidewall is much shorter then endwall to endwall. Misters down the whole greenhouse that has sidewall vents is more uniform then cooling at one side and pulling to the other.
Tall peaks in gutter connected systems can't be heated efficiently. You have to make the space smaller with curtains. Starts to get very complicated for what? Why not make it easy to heat and cool by design instead of complicated ways to make something inefficient efficient.

I'm not saying not to use curtains. Just use them to make something that's already efficient even more efficient! Every layer of plastic/fabric adds to insulation. But a layer 20 ft up in the air aint doing shit.

 

[aridbud]

Greenhouses are expensive to build and operate. A commercial greenhouse (30' x 100') with complete heating, cooling, and ventilation systems will cost between $15,000 to $30,000 to erect and equip. The annual costs of this size greenhouse would be in the range of $6,000 to $10,000.

Try Greenhouse Megastore, Urban Farmer, Atlas Greenhouse, Bonanza or look at Netherlands and what they use. Plug in: "Industrial Greenhouses" into search bar

 

[ledo]

The more you walk places like this until asked to leave the better... Good luck !

https://www.intergrowgreenhouses.com/how-we-grow/

There's no difference really b/w toms, peppers and Cannabis, except cannabis is probably the easiest to grow..... People don't like to hear that but they also listen to too many others and don't farm enough.

Peace - cooler more temperate climates have their benefits too, everyone is chasing the strongest sun, heat is your enemy most under glass....

 

[ledo]

94-97% of licensed cannabis startups fail in the first 18 months, cutting cost and consistency are the key to survive. One of the biggest hurdles is you cant deduct business expenses.

that's the same for all business, how many in here have started a company from scratch, drove it to profit and sold it, I have more than once and in extremely competitive industries.... You better have your business "A" game along with all the other farming shit, and some luck too, especially in this space, now.... It doesn't hurt to have a legal, accounting or business background either, that shit is expensive to pay for and stuff you must know for any company you start...

Find your niche, your specialty and do the best you can, things will follow, stop dreaming and do, do & do some more....

Good luck to all, scale up appropriately, timely; many of the first movers have been moving for a while, that advantage is largely gone, saturated currently, but still plenty, plenty, plenty of room for wins here, just like many industries, chase your passion and shit will happen for you..... Don't chase money, it'll be your doom

 

[OldCoolSativa]

that's the same for all business, how many in here have started a company from scratch, drove it to profit and sold it, I have more than once and in extremely competitive industries.... You better have your business "A" game along with all the other farming shit, and some luck too, especially in this space, now.... It doesn't hurt to have a legal, accounting or business background either, that shit is expensive to pay for and stuff you must know for any company you start...

Find your niche, your specialty and do the best you can, things will follow, stop dreaming and do, do & do some more....

Good luck to all, scale up appropriately, timely; many of the first movers have been moving for a while, that advantage is largely gone, saturated currently, but still plenty, plenty, plenty of room for wins here, just like many industries, chase your passion and shit will happen for you..... Don't chase money, it'll be your doom

Beautiful words, brother! I agree with everything you said.

Except maybe the bit about heat being your enemy. It can be collected, stored seasonally, and reused in winter.

 

[LostTribe]

Greenhouses are expensive to build and operate. A commercial greenhouse (30' x 100') with complete heating, cooling, and ventilation systems will cost between $15,000 to $30,000 to erect and equip. The annual costs of this size greenhouse would be in the range of $6,000 to $10,000.

Try Greenhouse Megastore, Urban Farmer, Atlas Greenhouse, Bonanza or look at Netherlands and what they use. Plug in: "Industrial Greenhouses" into search bar

Thanks for the info!

Pricing at Farmteck and another seemed like 30x100 would be 35k plus install, footing/slab, electrical, blackout, equipment plus any supplemental lighting? I was thinking a 30x100' would be more like 100k minimum fully set up.

 

[Gry]

Neat as can be.

 

[Smith111]

So you've only farmed an acre, probably outdoor, and I'm toxic for telling you that you're in over your head trying to launch a multi-million dollar project?

Dude, if you were doing this right you wouldn't have time to "chop it up" with dudes on the internet. Furthermore, if you are so tapped into cannabis like you claim you would know the industry of it is full of shysters— so you have no basis to imply that I am being cynical. You need to check your ego, bro.

Why do people like you exist? Go away. I don't have time for the haters. I literally lift my head off my pillow, go to work, and put my head back on my pillow. My free time consists of taking a shower. I have spent more time responding to your dumb ass comment than hanging out with my kids this week. Go away.

 

[Smith111]

What the heck is a water wall and how are you going to get a delta T of -25 without AC?

Sounds interesting as for heat what can be done in colder climates with 60 plus days below freezing?

It's called an evaporative cooler. It works really well in areas with low humidity.