New Greenhouse and operational advice with employees

[GatorGumbo]

While I'm not so idealistic as to say that all it takes is an American dream spirit and a quality product, it is also not as simple as competitive spending. Every business worries about the first five years specifically when starting out, it's a classic business model. I know a guy who literally just builds a business and sells it every five years, and he can do so because he knows his way around a bottom line. There are significant reasons he has no interest in starting a weed farm, he's running a medical supply company at the moment instead.

Not to be condescending, maybe you've mentioned it earlier in the thread and I missed it, but have you ever grown and tested your own quality weed? Whatever you haven't done yet between there and your balls out operation is going to cause a problem. Imagine being out of ferts and additives for two weeks cause the distribution center screwed up, or having the power go out for two days, or a massive pest infestation spreading from greenhouse to greenhouse— and then imagine all of these issues at once. There's no luxury in these situations for a phone a friend solution, your operation is hemorrhaging cash every second it's not running. Then it's you who has to call the investors and explain why you cost their business $100k and need $30k more to fix it, which proportionally may not be that bad and all, but with the right direction it's all completely avoidable. That's all I'm trying to tell you to help you, that none of us shade-tree gardeners are going to be able to tell you what you need for a legal industrial capacity grow operation. The fact you're asking here, or even need real consultants for more than basic second opinions is not confidence inspiring, it makes it seem like you're here just for the pageantry of talking about your well funded business. Seems greasy.

 

[Ibechillin]

Have you heard of Growers Network? Its a Private forum for commercial licensed cannabis growers and processors, its ran by the owner of Growers House Nate. Should help put you in contact with the right people to help you with your questions.

Here is the link:
https://growersnetwork.org/why-join/

Nate from Growers House started a series on youtube where he tours legal cannabis facilities and interviews the people who run them. I found them informative, will give you some insight into some facilities that are already operating as well as some of the equipment they are using and general practices.

Episode 1 in licensed cannabis greenhouse facility California:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jIcV1aasZQ&has_verified=1

Episode 2 in licensed cannabis indoor facility Washington:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxKpn-pNRo&t=757s&has_verified=1

Episode 3 in 40 acre licensed cannabis greenhouse facility Arizona:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzJQ2Kmas70

Episode 4 worlds largest licensed cannabis outdoor facility Colorado:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4FflVtzlE0

Episode 5 inside 1st California Recreational Cannabis Farm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA0Klgvv5wY

 

[CrushnYuba]

Farmtek definitely sells some comercial sized greenhouses. I'm just saying it would be better to work backwards from a local contractor and use the equipment that they work with. Who is going to fix this stuff when it breaks down?
Example 1. Grow-tech is manufactured locally in norcal. They got contractors that build greenhouses every day. A friend of mine hired those contractors to build a non grow-tech greenhouse. They did an awful job. Blackout and motorized vents kept breaking. The fouth time i went out to fix something i tore everything down to the frame and reinstalled it from scratch properly.
Example 2. I have a friend of a friend. He had investors. They got in pretty early. Got land and built a bunch of fancy infra structure. Got permits. They were kind of failing. There is a big difference between theory and real life. He wanted me to consult and make his opp work but it was a little too late. He already spent to much money and too much time went by without returning $ to his investors. He got kicked out of his own project and he is now in a legal battle with his investors.

You need a proper consultant. That's not going to be easy to find because they don't really exist. I don't know of one that i would trust. Cannabis as agriculture is new. You need someone that knows the dollars and cents. That knows the practicality and not just the theory, knows the equipment, knows the plant. The problem is the guys who know this stuff are doing it. They aren't "consulting". You are their competition. Investors are a dime a dozen. I don't think you understand how slim the margins are. You are going to have a hard time covering your operational costs. Covering your infrastructure and start up costs are going to be almost impossible with any fat at all. And then you need to split any profit that you do turn with your Investors.

 

[jidoka]

Smith...text me and set up a phone call. We can take the time and I will give you specific, real world examples

I can also send you an over the top SOP for watering veg. It got over the top cause a bunch of Denver growers thought they knew better

Can you tell I hate hiring guys that know. If you mention Jorge in an interview it is over

 

[CrushnYuba]

Jidoka: i am very curious. where you are located? Are you a consultant?

 

[Smith111]

While I'm not so idealistic as to say that all it takes is an American dream spirit and a quality product, it is also not as simple as competitive spending. Every business worries about the first five years specifically when starting out, it's a classic business model. I know a guy who literally just builds a business and sells it every five years, and he can do so because he knows his way around a bottom line. There are significant reasons he has no interest in starting a weed farm, he's running a medical supply company at the moment instead.

Not to be condescending, maybe you've mentioned it earlier in the thread and I missed it, but have you ever grown and tested your own quality weed? Whatever you haven't done yet between there and your balls out operation is going to cause a problem. Imagine being out of ferts and additives for two weeks cause the distribution center screwed up, or having the power go out for two days, or a massive pest infestation spreading from greenhouse to greenhouse— and then imagine all of these issues at once. There's no luxury in these situations for a phone a friend solution, your operation is hemorrhaging cash every second it's not running. Then it's you who has to call the investors and explain why you cost their business $100k and need $30k more to fix it, which proportionally may not be that bad and all, but with the right direction it's all completely avoidable. That's all I'm trying to tell you to help you, that none of us shade-tree gardeners are going to be able to tell you what you need for a legal industrial capacity grow operation. The fact you're asking here, or even need real consultants for more than basic second opinions is not confidence inspiring, it makes it seem like you're here just for the pageantry of talking about your well funded business. Seems greasy.

Well..... Greasy huh?

Could it be, I just want to chop it up with some old friends before I pull the trigger? Why the fuck does everybody assume the worst? Terrible trait my man, very unbecoming.

I have stated in the thread my experience. I have farmed an acre 100% solo in the past. Everything you described above I can spot out in my sleep. I eat, breath and live cannabis. Thanks for your comment.

 

[Smith111]

Have you heard of Growers Network? Its a Private forum for commercial licensed cannabis growers and processors, its ran by the owner of Growers House Nate. Should help put you in contact with the right people to help you with your questions.

Here is the link:
https://growersnetwork.org/why-join/

Nate from Growers House started a series on youtube where he tours legal cannabis facilities and interviews the people who run them. I found them informative, will give you some insight into some facilities that are already operating as well as some of the equipment they are using and general practices.

Episode 1 in licensed cannabis greenhouse facility California:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jIcV1aasZQ&has_verified=1

Episode 2 in licensed cannabis indoor facility Washington:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxKpn-pNRo&t=757s&has_verified=1

Episode 3 in 40 acre licensed cannabis greenhouse facility Arizona:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzJQ2Kmas70

Episode 4 worlds largest licensed cannabis outdoor facility Colorado:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4FflVtzlE0

Episode 5 inside 1st California Recreational Cannabis Farm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA0Klgvv5wY

Thank You!!!!!!!!

No seriously, thank you. You took the time to actually provide something of value. Instead of telling me 50 different ways I wont succeed, you actually just gave advice and left it there. THANK YOU!!!!!

You sir, are an all star. Thank you and I will watch those videos and join that forum.

 

[Smith111]

Farmtek definitely sells some comercial sized greenhouses. I'm just saying it would be better to work backwards from a local contractor and use the equipment that they work with. Who is going to fix this stuff when it breaks down?
Example 1. Grow-tech is manufactured locally in norcal. They got contractors that build greenhouses every day. A friend of mine hired those contractors to build a non grow-tech greenhouse. They did an awful job. Blackout and motorized vents kept breaking. The fouth time i went out to fix something i tore everything down to the frame and reinstalled it from scratch properly.
Example 2. I have a friend of a friend. He had investors. They got in pretty early. Got land and built a bunch of fancy infra structure. Got permits. They were kind of failing. There is a big difference between theory and real life. He wanted me to consult and make his opp work but it was a little too late. He already spent to much money and too much time went by without returning $ to his investors. He got kicked out of his own project and he is now in a legal battle with his investors.

You need a proper consultant. That's not going to be easy to find because they don't really exist. I don't know of one that i would trust. Cannabis as agriculture is new. You need someone that knows the dollars and cents. That knows the practicality and not just the theory, knows the equipment, knows the plant. The problem is the guys who know this stuff are doing it. They aren't "consulting". You are their competition. Investors are a dime a dozen. I don't think you understand how slim the margins are. You are going to have a hard time covering your operational costs. Covering your infrastructure and start up costs are going to be almost impossible with any fat at all. And then you need to split any profit that you do turn with your Investors.

Yea, fixing the greenhouse is something I have considered. The company I am teaming up with, they run a hundred million dollar company with acres of facilities. Different industry, but they have an entire construction crew of about 30 workers full time. I also have built several greenhouses, been part of design on a few more, and have been in the trades for 20 years. I hope with this combination, we could fix anything. So that keeps Farmtek in the running, however you make a great point that needs to be considered. So what company out of Nor Cal would you use for easy fixing? Or are you stating it's better in house?

Consultant.... You are looking at him. Just trying to consult with a few others before I dive in head first. Consultants looking to consult. Would love to talk about your margins, and what to expect there. What is the price per pound of properly grown greenhouse bud fetching? What are you yield metrics?

 

[Smith111]

Smith...text me and set up a phone call. We can take the time and I will give you specific, real world examples

I can also send you an over the top SOP for watering veg. It got over the top cause a bunch of Denver growers thought they knew better

Can you tell I hate hiring guys that know. If you mention Jorge in an interview it is over

I am swamped trying to get my construction done to my dispensary atm. I will text you here in the next day or two, when I know better my schedule. Thanks for the offer, talk soon.

 

[jidoka]

Jidoka: i am very curious. where you are located? Are you a consultant?

Crush. Yes, but Smith and I use to bump heads hard til we became buddies. I wanna see him crush it so this is on the house

30 yrs of manufacturing experience including Toyota system plus 6 sigma. Several yrs growing on top of that

 

[LostTribe]

Farmtek is solid. S1000, S2000, they can stack them together, custom engineer, custom fabrication, whatever you need assuming the order is big enough and you're willing to pay. If you're thinking about stacking together 20 acres of greenhouses, unless you're on perfect level ground, you're going to have to adjust for elevations which might need some custom design work to fill the transitions or brought to grade prior to expansion. Farmtek's manufacturing facility is out of Iowa.

Conley's was a bit more expensive and never was as responsive or as flexible as farmtek. Met with them, and seemed knowledgeable, just didn't hit it off quite as well and higher cost for the same/similar items.

FF seemed too gimicky, and higher cost as well. But they were years ago, maybe they've changed.

No experience with the other manufacturer.


Industry standard, might not be the best option. I see plenty of open span greenhouses, 30ksf+. Check out some of the Canadian producers that are doing massive spans. However, Canopy just had a complete crop failure in one of their facilities (over 1Msf, https://greencamp.com/canopy-growth-total-crop-failure-bc-facility/). The problem with large spans is the potential for pathogen spread and the cost to maintain with IPM. Smaller isolated bays cost more up front in construction, but the savings on IPM when needing to spray something specialized is a fraction if only needing to hit 1/20th of the facility and proper biosecurity is used throughout to prevent cross contamination. Plus fine tuning environmental controls to the specific maturity level. You have to decide what is more beneficial there in regards to capex and ongoing/longterm operations.

Go with separate veg/flower houses for sure, instead of splitting up single greenhouses. You want to be able to close up a house and nuke it at the end of the round in case of pests or pathogens, and if there's always plants, you can't do that. Plus climate control for end of cycle and veg should be very different, and you're not going to have different zones in the same greenhouse (more zones, more cost, more wiring, more equipment).

Who are you using for climate controller?? Farmtek will suggest LINK4, but I'd suggest to stay away. Had very good success with Wadsworth, they'll just need all equipment specs and have the SEED controller which is nice and upgrade-able as you continue to build out. Not cheap, but all climate features, lighting, weather station, light dep, vent/circ fans, heaters, etc.

HEPA filtered air?? Assuming you're running wet walls, would be interested to see how that would even be possible. Each greenhouse will likely have intake along most of each endwall, and unless prefiltering into an enclosed walkway, doesn't see massive air filtration being feasible... Greenhouses have cracks, vents, bugs/pathogens will get in eventually even with all the insect screening and prevention one can muster.

CO2, nice for night if you need to close everything up, but otherwise not quite as useful. Burn propane/ng for your heat and you'll generate CO2 as well. I'd love to see a greenhouse that could execute it well, but with air exchange being the main source for cooling, a lot gets wasted unless really fine tuned.


What about post? Dry/cure, trim/package. Extraction. Infusion. Storage. Depending on the state/country, other rules/regs for work areas, access control, camera/security monitoring.



I don't think I agree with those labor numbers when considering all extras aside from growing. Harvest. Planting. Equipment maintenance. Post. Delivery. Sales. All on top of maintaining spaces and actually growing. Are 1-2 people working 24/7/365. Vacations, sick, family emergency. Plants still need tending.



Lots to consider, should be a fun project. Good luck.

Excellent just what I've been thinking for years! --->Green House heated with Propane Burners on a CO2 controller!!!!!

Good to meet you Brother!
LT

 

[LostTribe]

Have you heard of Growers Network? Its a Private forum for commercial licensed cannabis growers and processors, its ran by the owner of Growers House Nate. Should help put you in contact with the right people to help you with your questions.

Here is the link:
https://growersnetwork.org/why-join/

Nate from Growers House started a series on youtube where he tours legal cannabis facilities and interviews the people who run them. I found them informative, will give you some insight into some facilities that are already operating as well as some of the equipment they are using and general practices.

Episode 1 in licensed cannabis greenhouse facility California:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jIcV1aasZQ&has_verified=1

Episode 2 in licensed cannabis indoor facility Washington:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxKpn-pNRo&t=757s&has_verified=1

Episode 3 in 40 acre licensed cannabis greenhouse facility Arizona:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzJQ2Kmas70

Episode 4 worlds largest licensed cannabis outdoor facility Colorado:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4FflVtzlE0

Episode 5 inside 1st California Recreational Cannabis Farm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA0Klgvv5wY

Brother I nominate this post as Post of the Decade. Much Thanks! Carry on!

LT

 

[Ibechillin]

in reference to the "operational advice" part, I found a video of a tier three 660 light indoor grow facility in Olympia, Washington that was designed really efficiently i wanted to share, its staffed by only 3 people.

The facility does sea of green automated flood and drain in 4x4x4 rockwool blocks, has 4x12 flood trays on casters that travel along a system of metal rails around the facility. 4x12 trays are filled up with plants in the veg area (looks like 16 per 4x4 for 48 per 4x12 tray) and then simply rolled along the rail system into a flower room bay, then to harvest area and finally to a pressure washer/sanitation area before being reloaded.

Minimal veg area/expense since most would be for maintaining mother plants, metal shelving racks with t5 lighting above can be used to root hundreds+ of clones in a small 2x4 floorspace. Rooted cuts are simply transferred into a 4x4x4 rockwool block and are ready to go, minimal time and expense/labor towards transplanting.

From clone the plants will grow more uniform in size/shape making them more predictable and easier to manage requiring less labor towards canopy management like training/pruning.

Link to video (flood table and rail system at 15:35)

https://youtu.be/LXIcv7k17hI?t=935

 

[Mengsk]

This is about money for some people which unfortunately makes it about money for everyone else. You are asking open source for very basic advice, and at the same time experienced technical consulting advice, for free online. Then you say 'oh no I don't need this advice,' and 'I have farmed an acre solo.' Now without making any judgement, before I was going to say you sound like a manager at Best Buy or UPS. Inevitably you are stepping on someone's toes. I was thinking about how to write a friendly, helpful response, where I even offer up my intellect and/or services. But in this very thread you have advice "not to hire growers." So you want a manufacturing team, low cost, high turnaround.

Backyard growers populate this message board. When you say "I want a 10,000 sq. ft greenhouse," you are also saying hey 1000 people who grow, get lost, also I want you to buy product from me now. When you design a plan to maximize output, you are minimizing value. Value of your product among other things. I believe some of you have a skewed perception of the value of human life, human labor, and time. It isn't to be decided by a rigid form letter SOP how many hours each person works or what they are paid. If a "home built" or "small" "DIY" hoop/greenhouse can be set up for $1 per square foot, why is that not in your budget? I will build one for me but not for you. And at the same time it doesn't look like you are interested in a three or four figure budget, you insist on five or six figures at least and acres of production from each person (also not you).

Overwork, overworking people, overexpectations, placing such high demands on the land and employees (humans, people). Overuse of resources (just like wound up or high stress people, the desire to focus on time and product yield as metrics of .. anything, growth and profit for example). If one person injects steroids in the gym everyday I don't get too bent out of shape, that is their choice. But when growth hormone confined dairy farms, have turned into marijuana greenhouse operations, on your front doorstep, it is a cause for alarm to say the least.

I can only phrase this so many ways. Being in a stress driven or power hungry race is not the way to live, it takes a toll on you and those around you. Nor is driving your workforce to "maximum potential" or convincing anyone this is the next retail warehouse job. At what level do you expect to separate the income tiers? In other words how much of this very important $ goes to each of the people on your team or should I say in your scheme? Are you going to set knowledge or intelligence limits in your hiring criteria? Not to sound rude but civil rights, human health and safety are all important.

Not to rant, coming full circle the only people who are going to work in this environment or be available for hire you have already selected for: non-grower manufacturing jobs. To be very clear, this is lowest cost at/as the bottom line. Plain as day the absolute goal is to make the cheapest product and pay employees the least, with highest fastest turnover possible. And highest markup for profit. Here you should look at compassionate caregiving or the caregivers for medical patients model, like prop 215. Have your presentation, metrics, and pros/cons all lined up side by side, for the nature and goals of compassionate medical caregiving. Now compare/contrast to Dutch greenhouse sigma6 model. Are there any similarities, differences, anything else you notice?

Starting to shift subject, were I to offer my consulting services (see the comment about "do not hire growers"), my business outline or SOP would be fairly self sufficient. The catch 22 here is that, what you want to copy and use for yourself, can easily become a two way street. No consultant will run the business for you. You are on here asking for free advice, but the business is about money. So when you hire someone to grow for you, the only connection is money. Neither one of you needs each other, except for a financial arrangement. I am sure you know this well as a businessperson.

Unexpected events like theft have happened. Not entirely surprising when you are talking about turning over commercial weed $$ every 60 days and hiring manufacturing greenhouse workers. Side note here - the quality suffers when your business model is set up on paying the minimum amount in labor to employees. Say mold takes a crop. Now are you looking into insurance or more investors? Both of those raise the cost. And both raise the cost in a different way than paying employees more or hiring more people. Hiring security can change the dynamic or atmosphere if you will. But I don't think most grows these days have or need armed security. A security camera with night lights could be enough of a deterrent.

On one hand people can list the pros or the how to of efficient large scale growing. But this site is a perfect place to see who is being affected by large scale grows. You are not disconnected from everyone else because you "green rush" to grow as much as fast as you possibly can. You are actively decimating the market and many non-cannabis related markets and areas in the process. All of that boof weed is not going back to Iowa where the steel came from. Just because a law passed and some realtor will sell you a million pound per year farming permit, does not make it ok or moral or right or just to set up shop that way. I do not know the real world real time demand or consumption rate for everyone and whether places move it all in exchange for currency or sit on tons of frozen product they aren't selling for months or years although I think that is the kind of info a rec market person would be interested in.

I oppose factory work including greenhouse factory work. Look into a model that provides cannabis (and food) with zero carbon footprint, zero reliance on petroleum fuel. Think about expanding your horizons a bit. What I mean is if you plan to have so few employees then you'll need to pay each one more to manage the land. Think about hiring 20-50 people to do the work instead of 3 or 5. Instead of getting pissed and firing the kid for not following SOP, take a chill pill and let them do something else or stick around to see how it did or did not work so they know in the future. Don't treat individuals as pawns or disposable, think about each one like you may see them again one day. The world is big and you can always lose/find people in the madness but it's also getting smaller at the same time. At this point we are both adults, it seems like you might push ahead with your plan and find a manager, team leaders, a processor, a trimmer, a distributor, you have your own dispensary, etc.

What would your role or rather name be for a family farmer, or owner operator? Not in an offensive or abrasive way but there are at least a couple posts on this board to the effect of 'oh don't mind me and my million/billion dollar operation, no worries.' And the posters, with no elevation intended regarding info sharing but people who do not post their face or identity, and this is happening right in our backyard. Criminals who might go to jail, this has been meaning it is the norm (until now). Very different from some posts about a company. Well if a person is a corporation then the corporations should speak like people when spoken to and asked questions. That is my take on it. At some point yes I do mind, I mind a lot actually. People actually should be vetted, as in once again not to elevate or sound frightening but more people should be involved in this conversation at once, shake hands pat down check ID talk in public, whatever. Even the most notorious used car salesmen operate right in broad daylight, so this uncomfortable task of cannabis or even "pushing dope" has changed shape. Political figures are in the media, look at ht magazine.

Earlier you said you farmed an acre. How do you feel about one person farming an acre now, should they be able to or have the right to? Is it totally fair game, or plan to shut them down with the largest greenhouse ever? If California puts up more cannabis greenhouses, what is happening to the acreage of edible food production in the state? If people stop growing food because they can switch to weed in the largest food producing state, that will have consequences. What is the market share for people able and willing to help out a friend or two rather than deal with the dispensary expense?

 

[LostTribe]

This is about money for some people which unfortunately makes it about money for everyone else. You are asking open source for very basic advice, and at the same time experienced technical consulting advice, for free online. Then you say 'oh no I don't need this advice,' and 'I have farmed an acre solo.' Now without making any judgement, before I was going to say you sound like a manager at Best Buy or UPS. Inevitably you are stepping on someone's toes. I was thinking about how to write a friendly, helpful response, where I even offer up my intellect and/or services. But in this very thread you have advice "not to hire growers." So you want a manufacturing team, low cost, high turnaround.

Backyard growers populate this message board. When you say "I want a 10,000 sq. ft greenhouse," you are also saying hey 1000 people who grow, get lost, also I want you to buy product from me now. When you design a plan to maximize output, you are minimizing value. Value of your product among other things. I believe some of you have a skewed perception of the value of human life, human labor, and time. It isn't to be decided by a rigid form letter SOP how many hours each person works or what they are paid. If a "home built" or "small" "DIY" hoop/greenhouse can be set up for $1 per square foot, why is that not in your budget? I will build one for me but not for you. And at the same time it doesn't look like you are interested in a three or four figure budget, you insist on five or six figures at least and acres of production from each person (also not you).

Overwork, overworking people, overexpectations, placing such high demands on the land and employees (humans, people). Overuse of resources (just like wound up or high stress people, the desire to focus on time and product yield as metrics of .. anything, growth and profit for example). If one person injects steroids in the gym everyday I don't get too bent out of shape, that is their choice. But when growth hormone confined dairy farms, have turned into marijuana greenhouse operations, on your front doorstep, it is a cause for alarm to say the least.

I can only phrase this so many ways. Being in a stress driven or power hungry race is not the way to live, it takes a toll on you and those around you. Nor is driving your workforce to "maximum potential" or convincing anyone this is the next retail warehouse job. At what level do you expect to separate the income tiers? In other words how much of this very important $ goes to each of the people on your team or should I say in your scheme? Are you going to set knowledge or intelligence limits in your hiring criteria? Not to sound rude but civil rights, human health and safety are all important.

Not to rant, coming full circle the only people who are going to work in this environment or be available for hire you have already selected for: non-grower manufacturing jobs. To be very clear, this is lowest cost at/as the bottom line. Plain as day the absolute goal is to make the cheapest product and pay employees the least, with highest fastest turnover possible. And highest markup for profit. Here you should look at compassionate caregiving or the caregivers for medical patients model, like prop 215. Have your presentation, metrics, and pros/cons all lined up side by side, for the nature and goals of compassionate medical caregiving. Now compare/contrast to Dutch greenhouse sigma6 model. Are there any similarities, differences, anything else you notice?

Starting to shift subject, were I to offer my consulting services (see the comment about "do not hire growers"), my business outline or SOP would be fairly self sufficient. The catch 22 here is that, what you want to copy and use for yourself, can easily become a two way street. No consultant will run the business for you. You are on here asking for free advice, but the business is about money. So when you hire someone to grow for you, the only connection is money. Neither one of you needs each other, except for a financial arrangement. I am sure you know this well as a businessperson.

Unexpected events like theft have happened. Not entirely surprising when you are talking about turning over commercial weed $$ every 60 days and hiring manufacturing greenhouse workers. Side note here - the quality suffers when your business model is set up on paying the minimum amount in labor to employees. Say mold takes a crop. Now are you looking into insurance or more investors? Both of those raise the cost. And both raise the cost in a different way than paying employees more or hiring more people. Hiring security can change the dynamic or atmosphere if you will. But I don't think most grows these days have or need armed security. A security camera with night lights could be enough of a deterrent.

On one hand people can list the pros or the how to of efficient large scale growing. But this site is a perfect place to see who is being affected by large scale grows. You are not disconnected from everyone else because you "green rush" to grow as much as fast as you possibly can. You are actively decimating the market and many non-cannabis related markets and areas in the process. All of that boof weed is not going back to Iowa where the steel came from. Just because a law passed and some realtor will sell you a million pound per year farming permit, does not make it ok or moral or right or just to set up shop that way. I do not know the real world real time demand or consumption rate for everyone and whether places move it all in exchange for currency or sit on tons of frozen product they aren't selling for months or years although I think that is the kind of info a rec market person would be interested in.

I oppose factory work including greenhouse factory work. Look into a model that provides cannabis (and food) with zero carbon footprint, zero reliance on petroleum fuel. Think about expanding your horizons a bit. What I mean is if you plan to have so few employees then you'll need to pay each one more to manage the land. Think about hiring 20-50 people to do the work instead of 3 or 5. Instead of getting pissed and firing the kid for not following SOP, take a chill pill and let them do something else or stick around to see how it did or did not work so they know in the future. Don't treat individuals as pawns or disposable, think about each one like you may see them again one day. The world is big and you can always lose/find people in the madness but it's also getting smaller at the same time. At this point we are both adults, it seems like you might push ahead with your plan and find a manager, team leaders, a processor, a trimmer, a distributor, you have your own dispensary, etc.

What would your role or rather name be for a family farmer, or owner operator? Not in an offensive or abrasive way but there are at least a couple posts on this board to the effect of 'oh don't mind me and my million/billion dollar operation, no worries.' And the posters, with no elevation intended regarding info sharing but people who do not post their face or identity, and this is happening right in our backyard. Criminals who might go to jail, this has been meaning it is the norm (until now). Very different from some posts about a company. Well if a person is a corporation then the corporations should speak like people when spoken to and asked questions. That is my take on it. At some point yes I do mind, I mind a lot actually. People actually should be vetted, as in once again not to elevate or sound frightening but more people should be involved in this conversation at once, shake hands pat down check ID talk in public, whatever. Even the most notorious used car salesmen operate right in broad daylight, so this uncomfortable task of cannabis or even "pushing dope" has changed shape. Political figures are in the media, look at ht magazine.

Earlier you said you farmed an acre. How do you feel about one person farming an acre now, should they be able to or have the right to? Is it totally fair game, or plan to shut them down with the largest greenhouse ever? If California puts up more cannabis greenhouses, what is happening to the acreage of edible food production in the state? If people stop growing food because they can switch to weed in the largest food producing state, that will have consequences. What is the market share for people able and willing to help out a friend or two rather than deal with the dispensary expense?

I think the thread is great and it is the green house forum not like anyone interested in green houses is going to be into small numbers etc. Certainly some here might be into veggies and throwing in a pot plant here and there but I don't see any problem with a thread or threads about running larger operations.

small green houses and large green houses are also directly related as far as environmental controls and time involved is concerned. Its just the scale and need for extra hands that comes into play along with some additional environmental adjustments due to more growth.

Cheers,
LT

 

[Mengsk]

I'm not sure where this fits in, or how many people notice or care. But if you rush out as fast as you can, do as much as possible, and then especially with a higher turnover or problem rate. It can make a place seem or feel more like a ghost town than if it were set up like a ranch or home where people live and stuff.

 

[Ibechillin]

When you design a plan to maximize output, you are minimizing value. Value of your product among other things.

Speaking from owner/operator experience in the commercial farm produce retail industry as well as growing/consulting for patients, You could not be more wrong imho. Thats like saying "this year my apple trees produced twice as much and double the size and brix rating of last year, i have to sell them for less this year".

I often emphasize the relationship between optimal plant nutrition and increased health, yield and quality. Value does not decrease with increased quality and yield... The main difference in the 2 industries is cannabis doesnt have a standardized grading system affecting its potential quality/value like commercial agriculture produce, recreational cannabis is tested for cannabinoid content but that doesnt affect its potential value like brix rating in produce. Place to place, customer to customer each has their own preferences on what quality is and what they are willing to pay, The value of cannabis is ultimately determined by the person selling it and varies. Whereas produce typically has a pre determined price range over which its sold at both the wholesale and retail levels.

The "race to the bottom" discussion floating around the industries decreasing value is not caused by increasing production, but by larger producers trying to prevent the smaller producers from getting their product into stores so they go under, same as anything else the big fish eats all the little fish and then the market stabilizes.

The difference in price is simply the retailer taking advantage of what the consumer has no understanding of. All sales are the same, buy low and sell high to those who are naive enough to pay it. (*cough nutrient companies and grow shops *cough)

The farmers are lucky to get around 10% of what the store shelf price is...my family has worked in the produce wholesale and retail business for 60 years, myself for 10.

Its hilarious when we wholesale to high end markets that sell the same item we carry for 4 times the price as us at our fruit stands.

I believe some of you have a skewed perception of the value of human life, human labor, and time.

A business exists to make profit for the owner and tax revenue for the government, not philanthropy, you dont owe anyone anything for starting a business. Honestly, people are the biggest liability, Im a firm believer if you want something done right to do it yourself, which often translates to 100 hour work weeks.

 

[dankx]

The value of cannabis is ultimately determined by the person selling it and varies.

Wrong. The market sets the price. The seller only sets the price in a monopolized or controlled market.

The "race to the bottom" discussion floating around the industries decreasing value is not caused by increasing production, but by larger producers trying to prevent the smaller producers from getting their product into stores so they go under, same as anything else the big fish eats all the little fish and then the market stabilizes.

The "race to the bottom" is when a market gets flooded and sellers sell at less then it cost to produce. This is happening now with cannabis. I am hearing people in Northern Cali selling complete harvest this year for $200 a unit just so they can cash out and get out.

The market of cannabis will stabilize at agricultural prices $10.lb or so. Similar to tobacco or similar herbal goods. Only a fool will follow it down.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I have to spread some reputation around before giving more to you Mengsk, I completely agree with what you posted. Very astute observation and information. Thank you.

 

[Ibechillin]

The seller is half of the market, buyer the other half. Spectrum goes 2 ways: sell cheap and move volume or hold your price and wait. Market reports show history/trends, they dont set the price. In the example i gave above the tier 3 largest producers are the big fish moving cheap volume profiting or purposely breaking even playing the waiting game. Where the "people in Northern Cali selling complete harvest this year for $200 a unit just so they can cash out and get out" are the small fish: The Producers that are selling at less than the cost of production is them running around like a chicken with their head cut off trying to save themselves from debt and bankruptcy in a market way out of their league..."pipe dreams".

Here in Washington reports are showing lbs selling wholesale for ~$1 gram. Commercial power rates are low at 7.68 cents kwh that works out to $51.60 for an 8 week flower cycle under 1000w. I suggested running sea of green earlier in the thread to mitigate expenses from veg growth almost entirely, Grodan 4x4 rockwool blocks are like $1 each, 16 plants per 4x4 space. Mixing your own hydroponic nutrients is another huge expense saved, can also recycle water lost by transpiration/evaporation with certain approved dehumidifiers.

1000w sea of green 4x4 flood and drain easy 2lbs per light.
$1 gram x 2lbs = ~$896-$907 worth

16 4x4x4 Grodan blocks cost: ~$16
8 week flower cycle power cost: $51.60

Total cost around $100+- to produce 2lbs worth ~$896-$907.

Producers/processors have jobs titled "B2B Sales", not delivery drivers.] Its their job to scout potential customers AND UPSALE. The same product could be sold at different prices to multiple different retailers, Then each of those retailers could sell that same product at a different price as well. SELLER SETS THE PRICE!

Literally 2 different dispensaries across the street from eachother will carry the same item from the same producer sold at different prices...The fact that advertising cannabis is illegal makes things interesting in this regard.