New extraction technique? Rosin tech?

[Hashmasta-Kut]

Anyone else getting the feeling there are two distinct types of extracting going on? I can extract at a temperature that just produces a liquidy sheen, that is hard to pick up. Its a pretty cool press. It barely darkens even when leaving in for over a minute. This extract is always a film on the parchment, that may pile up thicker in some areas, but is generally all one piece. It collects into an extremely soft pile, of also creamy goo typically. It sizzles extremely quietly, almost inaudibly when extracting. You can see bubbles of gas jetting out as it collects beyond the press zone too.

However doing an extraction with the exact same material around 20-30 degrees higher(260F or so), never makes a slick like that, it always yields droplets, that have obviously been moved from the material and re-deposited a few mm to a cm or two away from the material. It also can give a similar color extract, but its always very easy to pick up, much drier. A very audible sizzle can be heard when pressing and unless the material is very damp, more than 30 seconds is risky or it will darken quickly past around then.

 

[Twitch.]

Anyone else getting the feeling there are two distinct types of extracting going on? I can extract at a temperature that just produces a liquidy sheen, that is hard to pick up. Its a pretty cool press. It barely darkens even when leaving in for over a minute. This extract is always a film on the parchment, that may pile up thicker in some areas, but is generally all one piece. It collects into an extremely soft pile, of also creamy goo typically. It sizzles extremely quietly, almost inaudibly when extracting. You can see bubbles of gas jetting out as it collects beyond the press zone too.

However doing an extraction with the exact same material around 20-30 degrees higher(260F or so), never makes a slick like that, it always yields droplets, that have obviously been moved from the material and re-deposited a few mm to a cm or two away from the material. It also can give a similar color extract, but its always very easy to pick up, much drier. A very audible sizzle can be heard when pressing and unless the material is very damp, more than 30 seconds is risky or it will darken quickly past around then.

How long are you doing the presses?
you say the low temps are gooey and the stuff you press a little warmer is more stable and touchable, did I read that correctly?

 

[blastfrompast]

I'm not ignoring you, but like I just said, I'm not discussing press design openly anymore. Apparently all it leads to is me being be an incorrect "know it all" that does nothing but hates on other people's shit constantly. Cause that's clearly why I've spent months researching and designing, just to hate on every one else's stuff. Ironically I've now spoken with and offered tips that were warmly welcomed, with 3 other people designing presses.

Pm me what your budget is, what your desired production level is, and how much space (footprint) you can afford for a press. Pretty much the only option imo for a tight budget is to manually heat the plates. Thank GanjaPharma for the induction hot plate tip cause that's the best option as far as fast, reliable, and inexpensive results are concerned.

I'd stay away from facebook also....It is one of the reasons I stopped posting..

 

[blastfrompast]

Anyone else getting the feeling there are two distinct types of extracting going on? I can extract at a temperature that just produces a liquidy sheen, that is hard to pick up. Its a pretty cool press. It barely darkens even when leaving in for over a minute. This extract is always a film on the parchment, that may pile up thicker in some areas, but is generally all one piece. It collects into an extremely soft pile, of also creamy goo typically. It sizzles extremely quietly, almost inaudibly when extracting. You can see bubbles of gas jetting out as it collects beyond the press zone too.

However doing an extraction with the exact same material around 20-30 degrees higher(260F or so), never makes a slick like that, it always yields droplets, that have obviously been moved from the material and re-deposited a few mm to a cm or two away from the material. It also can give a similar color extract, but its always very easy to pick up, much drier. A very audible sizzle can be heard when pressing and unless the material is very damp, more than 30 seconds is risky or it will darken quickly past around then.

100% right about the differences.....amazing what 2-30 degrees will do..

I prefer the creamy texture stuff....I use a cold plate to collect it.

In blind taste tests, the creamy wins everytime....

That being said....some strains taste like straight up ass when u do a cold LONG HARD press....at least until they age and the more volitile terps evap out.....

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

right on blast. Do you agree they seem to be two different processes?

How long are you doing the presses?
you say the low temps are gooey and the stuff you press a little warmer is more stable and touchable, did I read that correctly?

i said how long pretty much. its not exact.

but if you are trying to get at the possibility that my low temp long time presses are decarbing, it, thats not the case at all. i can do a 10 second press at low temp and get super liquidy extract. i can do a 30 second hotter press and get shattery type stuff. obviously more moisture is used up/ cooked off in that type of extraction.

 

[Sunfire]

100% right about the differences.....amazing what 2-30 degrees will do..

I prefer the creamy texture stuff....I use a cold plate to collect it.

In blind taste tests, the creamy wins everytime....

That being said....some strains taste like straight up ass when u do a cold LONG HARD press....at least until they age and the more volitile terps evap out.....

I believe it's all a matter of moisture. When you see the droplets it's was a pretty moist press. Touch alone can not really determine moisture in material. I can guarantee moisture has a lot to do with everything.

super dry presses don't seperate into droplets like that, just a slow continues creep like a lave flow.

more moisture will cause more auto budder and a creamy texture. Less moisture makes a more shattery like product. Somewhere in there, return rate has a part but I've yet to truly experiment with numbers to see how much actual resins come out and as opposed to how much of the weight is actually just water.

what your seeing in the terp profile is a huge concentration of mono terps, I think anyways. The monos easily evap as the rosin it left out to dry.

Many people have spoken about the strange taste difference. Some people say their super melty dry sift tastes better after they rosin it, other say the rosin ruins the flavor, I have seen both.

I'm not going to go into in depth detail cause I'm really not 100% on all this yet but I feel like it's similar to any extraction. Mono, di, and sesqueterpenes, exclusively in that order, go from lighter (single carbon chain) to heavier. The heavier sesqueterpenes are harder to extract but are volatile at much higher temps then the monos for instance. A perfect balance of moisture, temp, pressure, and time length, will aid in a more balanced terp profile.

you may also notice that some strains act differently then others when it come to the terp profile, and that's because the profile was different to begin with. It may be harder to get the true flavor of some strains that are heavier in di and sesqueterpenes. When extracted the terp profile shifts in the rosin to have a higher concentration of monos.

experiment with your cure times and moisture content. Some strains will jist never be right, some get better, and of course it's all subjective to the individual dabbing it.

blue dream is just fucked for me. Can't get it to not have a crazy spice celery taste no matter what I do! I'm hoping pressing the kief as opposed to flowers or trim will help with this.

Lmfao @ headyblunts. "I am your father, come to the dark side!"

TWITCH WTF DUDE?!?!?! seriously why did all my posts involving you and the rosintechnologies press get completely erased?!?!?!? Did you go squeal to a mod??? I'm seriously not stoked that an icmag mod would straight erase people's posts without even notification or explanation.

 

[Sirdizz]

Damn seems like Rosin is supposed to be top secret on techniques. Alright guess I'm gonna have to dive into it!

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

sunfire you are ignoring part of what i am getting at it seems. the droplet style extraction is not because of more or less moisture, its the amount of heat. above a certain heat it re-deposits droplets of extract, small seperate drops. lower temps never do that, even super moist, or dry, you just get a film instead, it kind of seeps out instead of getting steamed out is what i think is up here.

 

[Sunfire]

sunfire you are ignoring part of what i am getting at it seems. the droplet style extraction is not because of more or less moisture, its the amount of heat. above a certain heat it re-deposits droplets of extract, small seperate drops. lower temps never do that, even super moist, or dry, you just get a film instead, it kind of seeps out instead of getting steamed out is what i think is up here.

Lol no sir I didn't ignore it. Idk man I've seen the droplets and even at over 240f I've never seen it with super dry material. Maybe I'm getting shit drier. Was like 30%rh before I put it in the freeze where it's been for a month. I fairly certain it's close to like 0 or 10% rh now. I remoistened the materials at different amounts to experiment. I don't see the droplets until I get the stuff a little more moist.

Yes I agree with you something different is happening and I believe it's all based on mlisture. Think about how low a temp you need to get steam to rise off of water, like 180F or so I think. Now think about the temps to get the oils to volatize. I thinks it's around 256F. Now factor in coefficiency of expansion with the less viscous dihydrogen oxide (yeah I just euphanized water) and the more viscous thc. Somewhere in the mix is the terps, especially considering that monos are water soluble and dis are partially water soluble (gw, squatting bull, roji, GanjaPharma if you guys are watching this please correct me if that's wrong, I'm not a chemist).

Like I said I'm not 100%, I have theories though. What I jist said is the basis that I've launched these theories off and my engineer is a fucken genius and we have talked about this alot.

I really think the droplet phenomenon has more to do with expansion and contraction of the straight blend of constituents in the product. As well as the products desire to co-mingle or seperate. Thc and such are very heavy oils, terpenes are very light oils, and water is somewhere in the middle. Higher heats lead to more excitement and expansion which will obviously lead to harder and faster contraction as there is more "heat" in the system.

Another factor can be the migration of the product blend from a high pressure system (inside the plates) rapidly moving to a system of much lower pressure (atmosphere). I'm sure you've all seen the puff of steam when you release the press. The basic concept is called cavitation, rapid cavitation to be more precise, which pretty much leads to creating a cloud like you might have done back in middle school science class with a big jar and a latex glove placed over the jar that contained a little smoke and some water.

Am I making any sense HMK or have I finally lost it? I'm totally open to the idea I'm bat shit crazy lol!

 

[Sunfire]

Oh and along the lines of mingling and migration. Ptfe allows for the droplet phenomenon more then paper, in my personal observations. I think ptfe offers less resistance and friction so the product can migrate, mingle, seperate more easily.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

you have some interesting ideas there to mull on. and when i tried ptfe i noticed that, i will try a low temp ptfe press right now, curious.

I notice you mention the puff of steam, well in the low temp bud press i do, there is virtually no discernable puff of steam, audible or visual. the higher temp press i do, its a violent obvious discharge. the low temp press you can look in the edge of the parchment and see bubbles slowly forming a frothy edge as it comes out. CO2 i imagine, as it have very little odor.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

ptfe press i just did, and also a parchment press from earlier, both low temp. the ptfe press was about 90 seconds, it almost dropleted a bit, but it came out as a film basically still. if i press this same material around 25 degrees hotter, in parchment even, it comes out as only droplets. i will do one and show it off too.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

ok i did a few hotter ones. The first couple tries i only got partially dot pattern extraction, so i did a third one with drier material, and its almost all dotted as opposed to a film. kind of proves that more moisture and less heat will make a film. less moisture and more heat, the more it comes out as separate drops.

 

[heady blunts]

hmm this is good stuff guys.

i definitely prefer to see what HMK is calling the film vs. the droplets.

i've found that from strain to strain i have to adjust the temp dial on my press slightly to achieve the same dispersal pattern on the parchment. once i get the temp right i can leave it set and every press of that same herb will come out the same.

i had been wondering why even after adjusting the temp to achieve the "film" vs the droplets or even the budder (more on that in a sec) i still see a difference in consistency from certain strains. take my chemx and my CTOG for example. i believe i ended up pressing them at a similar temperature, but the chemx rosin is crazy sappy and the CTOG presses have been gorgeous snap and pull and super stable.

moisture can't be the only factor at play because the chemx material was fully cured while the CTOG had only been hanging for a couple days.

that leads me to wonder about the different classes of terpenes, like sunfire just touched on. i've heard enough pinolene for example will ensure a sappy resin---from how your fingers get sticky from touching the buds, to the texture of finished hash and concentrates.

if the og profile is heavy in myrcene, perhaps that terp has a more polar solvent nature. that would explain why the wash water smells so fucking amazing when making OG bubble, and why OG bubble doesn't always taste super great lol.

one last thing i'd add is the nature and method of pressing is notably different from the arbor press to the HMK style press.

i was getting a lot more lbs of force with the arbor press, and i was extracting at much lower temperatures because i liked that terpy budder. also i noticed i was getting the majority of the extraction in a pretty short time frame (although i was squishing much smaller volumes-per-press at the time). in other words i pressed for 8--10 seconds, and if i went for 30, i wouldn't get much more than what i had at 10.

with the HMK press i'm squishing for at least 30 seconds, and i get a pretty constant flow of oil off the hot plates that whole time. to be fair, i'm pressing 3--4 times the volume-per-press. but i can't get a good return at the lower temps it takes to get that terpy budder. almost nothing.

so part of why i'm shooting for the "film" look on my parchment folds is because i haven't achieved the budder using flowers and this press.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

i think you need way more moisture to get good yields at low temps. well at any temps even, but maybe moreso for lower temp. i am getting around 90% i'd say on first press, pressing for around 75 seconds on average, a no sizzle low temp film extract.

 

[heady blunts]

i've been doing more like 30--45 second presses, with buds at cure moisture.

i'll have to do some more experimenting with moister herb and longer squooshes.

are you remoistening cured herb with like a spritzer bottle and distilled water or something? or just trying to catch it at the right moment after chop?

HMK are you getting budder texture from those types of presses?

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

Its not always or usually buddering, thats still strain dependant. I find if you go extra long, like 90 seconds as opposed to 60ish, it gets more buddery seeming.

I capture it at the right moment after chop typically. If there is too much material you dont want to keep that moist, i would recommend either freezing it or drying out properly, then remoistening is fully kosher.

 

[droopy1211]

I've been just using a Conair hair straightner with its lowest temp setting, and a table vise to get as much pressure as possible. I have been getting pretty decent yields, its just it takes a lot of force to get that table vise to really tighten. I was going to make myself either one of the HMK style presses, or the arbor press. Which press do you prefer to use based on how easy it is to assemble, yield, and which press is just easier to work with? Both of the presses you both have made are so innovative and very creative!

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

Not sure if the arbor press is easy to work with, but i dispute my creativity quotient in this regard; it was just simple this is a round hole, and this is the round peg that fits in it sort of thing..(except rectangular would be more fitting).

 

[heady blunts]

the hmk press is the easiest to make, and the cheapest. $50 bucks and 30 min of DIY and you'll be pressing rosin.

the arbor press comes in various sizes at harbor freight. if you're good with a welder or you have a drill press you can probably rig up a decent thing pretty quick. without a solid way to connect the top plate to the ram it's a pain in the ass to use. if you can figure out how to connect the plate to the ram, then it's a one handed operation, and it works great.

i got it to work for a bit, but never better than a temporary solution. i use the HMK style press instead.