New extraction technique? Rosin tech?

[blastfrompast]

Anyone have a source for the 25u blotting screens.

I'm paying 20bucks a pop right now and between those, hash, and metal, etc. this RND is starting to get pretty expensive.

You can only clean the blotting screens so much...and SS isn't quite the ticket.

 

[Sunfire]

You mean ss mesh for filtration?

I wouldn't trust those 25u blotting screens. They for sure will have fibers break lose and they don't handle higher pressures. The ones I was trying blew out before I could even reach 1k psi.

I really think that is the next big turn in the rosin game, a proper filtration medium tthat can handle the pressure and heat without contamination.

Did more research on ptfe, I'm convinced now that it also shouldn't be used for pressing. I like the idea of silicone like what GanjaPharma is doing bit I don't like the sustainability.

I will package with ptfe in the future but until there's some actual testing and science involved with pressing with ptfe, I'm going to stay away from it.

I'll maybe have time tomorrow for pics and explanations of the temps and results. I'll tell you all right now though, doing a first lower temp press robs all the terpenes from the next press. Earlier when I said the tail end of the second press was almost clear, it also was void of terpenes. Upon sampling the specimen, it tasted like already vaporized flowers, was actually very unappealing. Even with a quick terpene dip, it still didn't taste as good as that Instant budder I accidently pressed.

I think I can also start saying that high pressures make a difference somehow, but the science of exactly what's going on probably won't happen for a long time I fear. But once again, it's relevant to how thick your filter pack is and the quality of your sift. Which is exciting for me because there will be room for many different press designs.

I just wish I could sit in the shop all day and have people bring me sift and run samples to the lab.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Anyone have a source for the 25u blotting screens.

I'm paying 20bucks a pop right now and between those, hash, and metal, etc. this RND is starting to get pretty expensive.

You can only clean the blotting screens so much...and SS isn't quite the ticket.

Not sure what you're asking for. Do you want something like those 25u silk screen pieces that come with bubble bag sets?

I bought a couple rolls of silk screen mesh years ago and have used it for sifting. I did try pressing one little packet of dry sift in it and it didn't melt or fall apart under my Rock and Roll Rosin Machine. LOL I think that's 6 tons of pressure and 300F temps.

It's available everywhere. Here was the first Google result...

http://www.screenprinting.com/screen-mesh-86-white-36x50#.VYHAvEa304w

1 yard by 50 yard roll for 12 bucks. It doesn't get any cheaper than that. Mine has lasted for years.

Might be worth a try.

 

[blastfrompast]

sunfire:
I've had blow-outs with them manually pressing cause I am trying to squeeze the Rosin out directionally...but not common with a loose pack and even pressure.

the SS screening material just seems to conduct the heat wrong....

 

[Sunfire]

Ummm those bubble screens arnt silk I don't think. I'm pretty sure it's polyester. Silk sounds like a much option in my.opinion. they use the monofilament polyester, just like those atlas screens. Because they are stronger then silk.

Yeah if you know how much you can put inside a filter bundle you won't get blow outs. I can put 25 grams in a coffee filter and have no blow outs, especially if you slowly roll on the pressure. But 100 grams requires a completely different approach.

Tell me more about the ss mesh and heat conducting. What have you noticed? What micron size were you using? Was it dutch weave or regular. Dutch is like twice as thick and I wouldn't use that.

 

[EsterEssence]

I used a 25 micron ss piece of screen in my 15 ton press experiment which blew out. I have a small piece left that i have used in the hair straightener it works ok if you make a long pack vs round, it gets hotter than the poly mesh i am using. I wasn't impressed...

 

[Sunfire]

Yeah but you did that 15 ton press super low heat. How big was the filter bundle? That was probably a lot of psi. I've gone up to 4k psi with ss mesh no problem.

I'll yell you right now my friends, there's no other option that I know of for high pressures and larger presses. This is why I'm saying it would be sweet to find a better filtration material. Maybe that gmo silk the government uses to make those bullet proof shirts. The material is supposed to be like a normal cotton t shirt material bit literally bullet proof.

25 micron is the border for ss mesh. Most companies start dutch weave at 25 micron. I've been using 74 micron regular weave and it's been working. I have some 43 micron dutch weave but I havnt tried it cause it's so much thicker.

For large scale production I really see no other option. For smaller 10 gram presses of kief a coffee filter alone works great if you figure out how much you can safely put in there. As I said before I could do 25 grams in a 2"x9" bundle no problem with just coffee filters but the trick to not blowing out is to slowly apply the pressure so the material warms up some before you really wrench down the pressure.

 

[blastfrompast]

Sunfire:

Yeah, we ditched the mono-polyester yesterday again(after circling around again). I like the idea of it, but we were having some decent success last night with the SS mesh, and a new press design.

Just sucks, SS bleeds heat soooo fast, and getting the right shaped heaters with enough ump is getting to be a pain in the ass. This going paperless is driving me nuts.

We are limited slightly by my fabricator, as he is trying to keep the design KISS to keep all the work done in his shop. (no outsourcing)

 

[Sunfire]

Oh lord I agree with kiss methodology completely. The very nature of rosin is simplicity so let's keep it simple!

Yes the ss will rob more heat and you must account for that. However the ss allows for no blow out and you can apply more pressure faster which transfers the heat faster through the stack.

Yeah using the mesh will suck more heat out of your plates. The paperless route for sure has its downsides. My design will allow for smaller presses on paper or larger presses without. I still have seen no actual evidence of parchment or ptfe contamination but the theoretical possibilities still scare me.

I do all my fabrication right here at the ranch. It can be done simple and my simplest designs have worked the best to be honest.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

someone needs to get one of those fancy extract tests done to test for contamination from the paper/ silicone coating on it. then you can rest easy knowing instead of wondering..

 

[Sunfire]

Ummm a fancy extract test does not exist for that as of now. They have to know what they're looking for and how to identify it, they also need to calibrate their equipment with a pure source of what they are testing for. I'm sure someone could figure it out and I know 2 labs I could call and ask. But as far as I know there hasn't been any demand for that and it might be too expensive for a lab to try to incorporate that into the testing in comparison to how many people would order those tests. I'm not sure but I'll make a few calls.

So for sure lower temps have less yield and more terps but seems to be darker and not as clear and at even lower temps you get the time elapsed auto budder and at lower yet the super budder. Second presses seem for me to yield more productive t buts it's more clear and less terpy. I'm thinking of developing a 2 press technique utilizing terpene reintroduction from the original trim.

I was just playing the sample game with a friend, I'll have pics up when I have ttime. Keep a log of your presses guys I think rosin is going to play by a different set of rules than bho or pho.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

you dont have to "ummm" at me, condescendingly. I realize its not easy to test for new things not tested before(kind of = costs more), thats why i said fancy.

yeah its interesting about low temp presses. I feel there is a fine line of temperature and time that can produce good yields and nice product, but it is most likely variable on the source material. a slightly less time or temp for different strains/ resin profiles, compared to others.

 

[Ringodoggie]

When you guys say, "low" temperature, what do you mean? Like 200F? Or, lower?

Thanks

 

[ChasingGreen]

So I haven't read all 81 pages, but I just saw the youtube video last night of a guy with the flat iron and some wax paper making really nice looking resin. What is the ideal temp that everyone has settled on for doing this with a flat iron? I assume people are now using heat presses like what they use to make t-shirts and are extracting higher quantities?

I'm also very confused as to why there's so much discussion on screens? You don't need a screen for this, you'd have the material go through the screen directly onto the flat iron...? You want a solid substrate to catch everything.

 

[EsterEssence]

Well i can understand not wanting to read all 81 pages, first off we are using parchment paper, it is called Rosin not resin, the temps vary, some irons won't go lower than around 250*. Yes folks are using t-shirt presses, doing it horizontal, vertical. The screens are used to contain the kief inside the parchment paper. Maybe read some of what we are talking about...

 

[blastfrompast]

chasinggreen:

Youtube is your friend if you don't want to read.

Just saying.

 

[ChasingGreen]

chasinggreen:

Youtube is your friend if you don't want to read.

Just saying.

As I said, I watched on YouTube. However, they're also mostly idiots on YouTube. That's why I asked here if the perfect temp had been figured out. I saw people on YT running at 400, which is clearly too high.

 

[blastfrompast]

It is a combination of:
Materials
Moisture
Time
Temp
Pressure

High temp + High quick pressure OR Low TEMP+ slow gradual pressure OR anywhere in between works.

BUT depending on your moisture level, Filter type, pressing method, and most importantly material type will determine what you end up with....

Super-budder/Caramel, Autobudder, Shattery/glass...with all colors and levels of translucency(is this even a word..lol)

You gotta do R&N...

What are you planning on pressing.? Hash, or flowers? or trim?

 

[Sunfire]

Ringo - 130F ish for the super terp budder. 150F ish for the darker colored stuff that started to auto budder after only ten minutes before I got it in the fridge. Those temps could possibly have been 20 degrees higher then stated. 200F ish for the darker more terpy soft shatter than yields significantly less then the 220F ish stiffer, slightly more clear and less terpy shatter. This was all at 1k psi with kief that barely fizzled when finger pressed.

Got the induction plate today, finally I'll have controllable temps levels.

I spend way too much time on instagram now but from what I've seen pure heads dry sift requires much lower pressure and slightly lower temps.

Chasing green - idk if anyone has yet to chart pressures and temps for different materials and strains. I'd like to start doing this.kind of research but for now you gotta figure it out for yourself because there a lot of variables and mysteries to still be explained. I still havnt seen any solid evidence on the exact mechanics of the extraction. My theory is extremely simple, some are more complex, yet all are unproven. So long story short we have no idea but id say 150F- 250F is appropriate with proper pressure. If you can't get atleast 50% return oh kief of the grade I previously described at 250F then you for sure need to step up the pressure game. I can get 50% at about 220F at 1k psi. About 30% at 200F with 1k psi.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Thanks Sunny. I am about ready to run some more so I want to get my ducks in a row and try to narrow down the parameters for my particular setup. Temp is a big variable. I hate this sticky ass shit. It gets everywhere. I have done some that came out so nice and crisp and other runs that came out so sticky that I ended up throwing most of it away with the parchment.

I did buy one of these...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111538561927?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'm not sure how well it will work but I like the idea of putting a probe between my plates while they heat to measure temps. And, I can compare this against my laser thermometer to see if I can get some consistent readings.

Thanks again for the info.