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New England Growers and Medical Users

guruverde

New member
So you're suggesting a massive cannabis tax increase? Wow, I'm definitely not donating a penny to "Mass Growers Council"

Masscann/NORML has filed a bill that would eliminate home growing and possession limits and reduce the tax rate from 12% to 6.5%. People should donate money to Masscann, a non-profit organization.

Are you ProVerde labs?
I'm not suggesting it personally or advocating it through MGAC (we're more focused on defending home grows and rights of cultivation in general). But after extensive talks with the attorney that wrote Q4 he convinced me that the increased tax is a necessity. I wouldn't take my reporting what I consider a foregone conclusion a reason to not support the MGAC.

I'm just a plainspoken attorney so I present what I know. I'd certainly much prefer a lower tax as it was implemented. But if you think about the logistics of getting local municipal support in individual towns/cities being able to offer them a more significant kickback from tax revenue is a very strong way to motivate them to be more open to marijuana.

The alternative is that towns like Peabody, Ashland, etc will vote for moratoriums and there will be no implementation of Q4 in those towns... I'd rather see taxes go up enough to convince anti-towns to buy in than see Q4 implemented in a checkerboard style based on the towns/counties that supported it... Furthermore, towns that voted approvingly will still have significant hurdles with local reps trying to create hurdles/obstructions through zoning. All of those issues are dramatically less if the towns are in support. That is why the tax will go up. There's just no better way to get broadbased local government support of Q4 without a larger kickback than the current tax structure allows.

But again, this is me telling you what to prepare and considering it a lost (and probably rightly so) battle. The MGAC is focused on a much different tack and I do not speak for our Director/Lobbyist. I'm just a realist and I agree that given the local municipal environment a tax increase will be the easiest means to broadbased implementation on the local level.
 

guruverde

New member
So you're suggesting a massive cannabis tax increase? Wow, I'm definitely not donating a penny to "Mass Growers Council"

Masscann/NORML has filed a bill that would eliminate home growing and possession limits and reduce the tax rate from 12% to 6.5%. People should donate money to Masscann, a non-profit organization.

Are you ProVerde labs?

The current tax rate is 6.25% on adult use/rec so I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers with a 0% tax rate on medicinal.
MGAC is also a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. We're actually educating the NORML lobbyist (a pro hired gun lobbyist with more skills but less educated in cannabis matters).

I believe all bills have come out of MGAC and MPAA, I'm not sure what Masscann/NORML have done beyond foster grassroots support.

I'm a person.
I cultivate.
Do comedy
and I'm licensed to practice law.

I'm not affiliated with any current cannabis business in anyway.
 

Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
Agree, except, the tax has to go up. Too many towns on the fence will balk at a 2% tax return locally. At 18%, they're getting 10%... that's harder to turn down.

No, That's just sucking up. The affluent coastal towns were the No voters and they will be the heel draggers. Let them be hypocrites and their neighboring towns with less attitude can enjoy the bonus tax revenue. Rhode Island had a dry town. The neighboring towns built extremely profitable liquor stores right on the town line and they delivered.
 

FatBlunt420

Killin' Zombies!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
PAGE 420!!

The walking dead is picking up. there was acouple actionless episodes, but it looks like everyone is on the same page. They realize Negan needs to go. And now that Carol is involved, Negan wont be around long.

Good luck with the snow. I'm letting it accumulate before I start up the snow blower.

I hope you ALL stay medicated today. :moon:
 

cureious

Active member
sounds good to me, thank you! You should check out NEVA - get signed up w/ them and you'll get action alerts of when to call, show up for hearings etc. I met these guys at their booth at the Freedom Rally and they seemed cool:

http://www.newenglandveteransalliance.org

the best things for Mass. residents to do right now is call their state legislator and state rep. and urge them to implement Q4 law with no changes. Not only because voters passed it, but give them 1 or 2 more sound bites - we shoudn't raise taxes because it will maintain the black market violence. We shouldn't mess with home grow because last year two 80-year grandparents in the state were SWAT team helicopter raided. etc.

Cool thx Mule, i'll check it out.

As for communicating with our Reps and Sens, EVERYONE for Cannabis should be DEMANDING our vote BE RESPECTED AND FOLLOWED. LEGAL FOR RECREATIONAL AND MEDICAL, NO OPPRESSIVE REGULATIONS THAT WOULD MAKE US CRIMINALS ON SOMETHING WE VOTED TO MAKE LEGAL

!!!OPPRESSIVE REGULATIONS!!!
must not be seen from the road?
6 plants per person, 12 per household?
10 Ounce limit in home?

If you have to grow your meds outdoors because you're on disability, retired, or simply cannot afford all the costs of growing indoors, you need to be able to produce enough in 1 season to support your/families' needs for the next 2 years to ensure a bad crop does not leave you with no meds or personal pursuit of happiness.


Add into the equation:
1.) 1 pound is needed just to make a 90 day supply of Rick Simpson Oil for 1 person. So let's not limit it to 1 person as you may have to grow for all of your family and or friends who cannot.


2.) Aside from oil, you may need or want (who gives a fuck what the reason is, we voted it ALL LEGAL) edibles, oil or wax, and good old fashioned bud to enjoy.

3.) You may need several different strains for different ailments for several different people who you are growing for;
For example, you may want to have 1 - Lifesaver for pain/arthritis to make oil/edibles/bud, 2 - PH also known as Therapy(high CBD/high THC) for MS/Cancer/Alzheimers symptoms to make oil, 3 - CBD Critical Mass(high CBD/low THC) for MS/Cancer/Alzheimers/pain/arthritis symptoms to make oil/edibles/bud , 4 & 5 - a couple strains of Kush because I fucking love it, 6 - Panama because 1978 Panama Red was the best I ever fucking had and I LOVE Sativas, 7 - Blueberry because it's my wife's favorite and ya gotta keep the wife happy, 8 & 9 & 10 & 11 to grow anything else I want to for fun and to find the next magical bud for pleasure.

4.) If growing multiple strains, you may need to keep:
A - Mums and Dads of each to keep your supply/genetics/bredding projects going.
B - Clones of parents as needed to keep a perpetual grow going efficiently.
C - X amount of plants in veg
D - X amount of plants in Flower
E - X amount of plants drying/curing
F - X amount of Pounds per strain to produce enough oil, wax, edibles, balm for arthritis, tinctures for skin treatments, and bud for whatever reasons in addition to mentioned above.

I can easily see myself producing 30, 40, 50 pounds or more just to be able to provide FREE multiple strains for multiple uses in multiple forms (RSO, Oil, Wax, Edibles, Bud) to just my family and friends for just 1 year.

Would that even be enough?

I don't know yet, but why should I be limited, WE VOTED TO MAKE IT LEGAL, NOT TO REGULATE IT TO THE POINT IT PUTS US ALL BACK INTO BEING CRIMINALS FOR NON-COMPLIANCE OF SOME OPPRESSIVE REGULATIONS!!!


get my drift?

Keep the Oath
 

OvergrowDaWorld

$$ ALONE $$
Veteran
So......Im gonna take the risk this year and grow 12 plants outdoors in my friends back yard and split it 50/50.
Its a fenced backyard so it wont be seen from the road, but it will be smelt by everyone in the neighborhood....and seen from neighbors backyards if they look through/over the wood fence.
Will this be legal enough that the cops cant take it all away and arrest my friend?
 

cureious

Active member
Thanks for your service n support.
No thanks needed, it was my honor to be able to serve, but thank you for for your kindness, consideration, and Patriotism.

As for politics... A lot of politicians constituents voted against this and are ignorantly doing what they think they need to, to stay in office.
Fuck em. The vote PASSED, and does not conflict with The Law of The Land (The Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights), therefore it is now Legal and The Will of The People of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

the marijuana committee to start setting guidelines for implementing q4
Here is a start for the Committee:

Guideline 1
The Will of The People of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is Cannabis is now legal for medicinal, and recreational use.

Guideline 2
Any Bill, Law, or Regulation must not go against The Will of The People of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and intent of which the vote for Cannabis to be legal was voted for and passed.

Guideline 3
If any such Bill, Law, or Regulation is implemented in any way, although may be deemed as legal by State or Federal Government, but goes against The Will of The People of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, shall be deemed as illegal by The Will of The People of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, with supporting documents being The Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Guideline 4
ALL politicians who are found to not comply with the Will of The People, and or have submitted any oppressive regulations, bills, and or laws, and or have voted in favor of any oppressive regulations, bills, and or laws, shall be held accountable by any and all means available to The People, shall be charged, prosecuted, and if found guilty, even if for violating their Oath of Office, shall lose all pensions and or benefits they may have accrued as a result of their political careers.

Guideline 5 and beyond, reference Guideline 1, 2, and 3 above before implementing.

Keeping in mind that some people may need to grow enough to provide for themselves, as well as friends and or family who cannot grow. Therefore there really should be no limit, BECAUSE WE VOTED TO MAKE IT LEGAL!!! Seriously, 1 person can reasonably be expected to grow 100 pounds plus per year at a minimum in order to be able to provide for their friends and or family members in need or want. What if I had a 50 acre farm, or just a basement I wanted to put to use to research a cure for cancer, Alzheimers, Autism, or any other reason? Why should I have to pay for a certain license to mass produce for whatever lawful/legal reason? As long as we all follow the guideline of not bringing harm to anyone or their property. Another thing to keep in mind is to ensure parents retain their right to medicate their children with Cannabis. Parents should have the right to choose between pharmaceutical and other natural choices.
 

Muleskinner

Active member
Veteran
Good news - the 10 ounce limit on home possession does NOT apply to cannabis that was home-grown. You are allowed to keep whatever you harvest from 12 plants, there is no limit whatsoever, see below.

I was told by lawyers that the outdoor language means you basically have to have the plants behind a 6-foot fence with a lock on the gate or door. It's OK if the neighbors can see them from private property. People climbing over the fence at night? the law doesn't help you with that :biggrin:

>>>Section 7. Personal use of marijuana

(a) Notwithstanding any other general or special law to the contrary, except as otherwise provided in this chapter, a person 21 years of age or older shall not be arrested, prosecuted, penalized, sanctioned or disqualified under the laws of the commonwealth in any manner, or denied any right or privilege and shall not be subject to seizure or forfeiture of assets for:

(2) within the person’s primary residence, possessing up to 10 ounces of marijuana and any marijuana produced by marijuana plants cultivated on the premises and possessing, cultivating or processing not more than 6 marijuana plants for personal use so long as not more than 12 plants are cultivated on the premises at once;
 

cureious

Active member
Good news - the 10 ounce limit on home possession does NOT apply to cannabis that was home-grown. You are allowed to keep whatever you harvest from 12 plants, there is no limit whatsoever, see below.

12 plants is completely, and unreasonably oppressive.

For my requirements and situation, if I am not limited by "Law", I could potentially have:
14 parent plants, Moms and Dads
10 in flower every 2 weeks perpetually so I can provide for others (free), room maximum of 50 - depending on how I manage them, full size plants, or 200 to 400 colas only?...
30 in cloner waiting to be cycled into Veg
30 in veg waiting to be cycled into flower

You get the idea. I am going to make Rick Simpson Oil using Everclear, oil for vaping, oil tinctures for skin treatments, edibles, capsules, and various strains of bud.
 

NENugger

Well-known member
I read the law and it only says secure location and doesn't specify a fence or what type of security. Definitely no mention of fences in the personal grow section. Did mention a fence for commercial. I would like an opinion on what secure means. Dogs, security system with alarms etc. As written it is very vague
 

Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
12 plants is completely, and unreasonably oppressive.

For my requirements and situation, if I am not limited by "Law", I could potentially have:
14 parent plants, Moms and Dads
10 in flower every 2 weeks perpetually so I can provide for others (free), room maximum of 50 - depending on how I manage them, full size plants, or 200 to 400 colas only?...
30 in cloner waiting to be cycled into Veg
30 in veg waiting to be cycled into flower

You get the idea. I am going to make Rick Simpson Oil using Everclear, oil for vaping, oil tinctures for skin treatments, edibles, capsules, and various strains of bud.

I had an extensive and documented conversation with the Department of Health and was told in no uncertain terms that for cardholders the plant count limit only applied to plants flowering and that plants in veg did not count. The final weight of buds is the weight cured and that is what counts. That is likely going to be the most restrictive aspect of the rules for card holders. Maybe the no limit for own grown could be combined. If I had to go to court that would be my line.
 
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Muleskinner

Active member
Veteran
I read the law and it only says secure location and doesn't specify a fence or what type of security. Definitely no mention of fences in the personal grow section. Did mention a fence for commercial. I would like an opinion on what secure means. Dogs, security system with alarms etc. As written it is very vague

yes, you're right - I had some criminal defense attorneys tell me that this language (secure, enclosed area, etc) would be interpreted in Mass. under current legal standards and precedents to be a 6-foot fence with a lock.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out - I wonder if the Cannabis Control Commission will issue more specific guidelines on outdoor.

I totally agree that any plants limits are an outageous act of tyranny. My grandparents were European immigrants that brought the culture of growing everything and making their own food. The idea of the state telling you what is allowed in your garden is a travesty.
 

NENugger

Well-known member
Total Bullshit Mass Lawmakers overturn our wishes

Total Bullshit Mass Lawmakers overturn our wishes

I'm surprised no one has commented on the fact that: With no public hearings and no formal public notice, the few lawmakers on Beacon Hill passed a measure on Wednesday to delay the likely opening date for recreational marijuana stores in Massachusetts by half a year — from January to July 2018.

This isn't right to overturn what 54% of Ma. population voted for.

The only consolation I see is that it will probably lead to more people growing their own.
 

Muleskinner

Active member
Veteran
yes, it's BS alright, we're the only state out of 8 that delayed implementation, obviously our state govt. is more crooked than the others. Just look at the infractstructure in this state if you need further proof, it's 3rd world!
 

Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
yes, it's BS alright, we're the only state out of 8 that delayed implementation, obviously our state govt. is more crooked than the others. Just look at the infractstructure in this state if you need further proof, it's 3rd world!

They need to hold off so there is plenty of time for the appropriate palm greasing. Alcohol sellers want to hold off competition as long as possible for those buzz dollars.
 

Muleskinner

Active member
Veteran
it's pretty funny - Treasurer Goldberg was opposed this whole idea. Now that she's in charge of running the tax racket, suddenly she's a lot more open minded! The legislators are trying to take cannabis taxing away from the Treasurer. Good to see them fighting each other for a change.

How much of that tax money is going down the rabbit hole, never to be seen again?
 

OvergrowDaWorld

$$ ALONE $$
Veteran
Well.... Now I have possibly 3 friends to grow 12 plants in each yard to split 50/50.
So Ill have 18 plants all to myself. Cant wait to grow the Glue and Azure Haze outdoors this year.
Can only grow 3lb plants though to keep them somewhat smaller.
 

cureious

Active member
Please be intelligent, and alert to the fact The People of the Commonwealth voted for cannabis to be legal for medinal AND recreational use.


The politicians are trying to retain their control over us by passing limits, and other restrictions that would render most of us as criminals again!

DO NOT ACCEPT OR TOLERATE these restrictions.

Plant limits, weight limits, really? wtf people wake up and make a stand for once.

Who cares if you can see my tomato or cannabis plants from the road
 

KONY

Well-known member
Veteran
Please be intelligent, and alert to the fact The People of the Commonwealth voted for cannabis to be legal for medinal AND recreational use.


The politicians are trying to retain their control over us by passing limits, and other restrictions that would render most of us as criminals again!

DO NOT ACCEPT OR TOLERATE these restrictions.

Plant limits, weight limits, really? wtf people wake up and make a stand for once.

Who cares if you can see my tomato or cannabis plants from the road

Welcome to "legalization". Just hope your good growing laws don't get made worse if one doesnt have the right documentation. That's the big worry here in Maine.

However I totally agree with plants not being in plain view of the public. While it's going to cost me few hundred dollars to put up a temporary fence, I dont think that is a bad law.
 

oldchuck

Active member
Veteran
Please be intelligent, and alert to the fact The People of the Commonwealth voted for cannabis to be legal for medinal AND recreational use.


The politicians are trying to retain their control over us by passing limits, and other restrictions that would render most of us as criminals again!

DO NOT ACCEPT OR TOLERATE these restrictions.

Plant limits, weight limits, really? wtf people wake up and make a stand for once.

Who cares if you can see my tomato or cannabis plants from the road

How do you propose to do it? How does one, "make a stand?"
 
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