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Need help!! Nute lock out??
- Thread starter bgandgrow
- Start date
T
thesloppy
Did you get a 'scope to check for bugs yet? Them plants ain't happy.
I also think it's a Mag def, haven't really given them any and if I have its very little. Scared to burn them.
I haven't this is the only plant that's showing this bad of signs. Most of the others are a nice green besides the biggest ones like the one pictured. The 2 other bigger lanky ones are starting to show signs like the one pictured.
Bwanabud
Active member
Mix a 200-300 ppm of Epson salt watering, and feed them...they will recover quick. If not a foliage feeding will be a bandaide.
Last edited:
dimebag_
Active member
bgandtryintogrow…hey bud, what exactly are u feeding them? I just re-read the whole thread and it seems like you act like your taking the good advice, but don't actually apply it to your plants. 
It seems all you've really done is switch to purified water for your solution?? Here is a little info that I cut and pasted from an earlier post of mine in case you missed it. I didn't originally write this, but it is spot on-check it:
How Cal-Mag Deficiencies Occur
The most common cause of calcium and magnesium deficiencies is lockout. When there is too much cal-mag already in the untreated source water being used as the base to the nutrient formula it can cause the good cal-mag in the plant food to become unavailable. Think about it this way - the cal-mag in your tap water has a large molecular structure and is very immobile in that form. These molecules try to go through your roots and up into the plant where they can be used. The molecules are too large to be absorbed efficiently and end up accumulating on the outside of the roots. This causes a road block that can lock out the good forms of cal-mag you are trying to feed them. Other key components of the nutrient formula can also be locked out and the problems escalate until your plants appear to be stunted and yellow and growth crawls to a halt.
There are ways to mitigate this problem. Fulvic and humic acid, as well as living beneficial biology, can help break down the relatively immobile cal-mag in your tap water and allow it to become more available to the plants. This process takes time and is not guaranteed to free up all the cal-mag in an efficient manner. The whole idea behind hydroponics is to minimize your time and maximize your harvests. There is no time to wait around for the cal-mag to be made available. What the plants need is cal-mag that they can readily absorb and use immediately.
Another way to acquire deficiencies is by not adding enough cal-mag to your nutrient formula when using purified water. Reverse Osmosis gives you the purest water possible and so you have to add the correct amount of cal-mag to ensure you have the proper feed solution. The best way to start your nutrient formula is to begin with purified water, add 50 to 250ppm cal-mag, and then add your additional macro- and micronutrients. The amount of cal-mag you add depends on the variety of plants, what stage in their life they are in, and the media you are using.
Certain growing media, such as coco coir, requires additional calcium due its cation exchange capacity properties. Growing in coco requires additional calcium, especially in the first few weeks of the plants life.
If you're running purified water than you def need to add cal/mag or at least mag. Your problem looks like a mag deficiency to me, which also leads to nitrogen def. which it also looks like you have. You can't burn your plants with cal/mag. Most guys will run 3-5 ml. of cal/mag throughout the entire grow when running ro water,which is similar to purified, but better. Add it to your water first before adding nutes.
Calcium and magnesium are listed as secondary nutrients, but are just as important to plant growth as NPK, and really are primary nutrients. Some bottled nutes have enough cal and mag in them already, others need to be supplemented.
I think if you throw 5ml of cal/mag from botanicare in with every watering, then you should be golden. cheers
db
It seems all you've really done is switch to purified water for your solution?? Here is a little info that I cut and pasted from an earlier post of mine in case you missed it. I didn't originally write this, but it is spot on-check it:
How Cal-Mag Deficiencies Occur
The most common cause of calcium and magnesium deficiencies is lockout. When there is too much cal-mag already in the untreated source water being used as the base to the nutrient formula it can cause the good cal-mag in the plant food to become unavailable. Think about it this way - the cal-mag in your tap water has a large molecular structure and is very immobile in that form. These molecules try to go through your roots and up into the plant where they can be used. The molecules are too large to be absorbed efficiently and end up accumulating on the outside of the roots. This causes a road block that can lock out the good forms of cal-mag you are trying to feed them. Other key components of the nutrient formula can also be locked out and the problems escalate until your plants appear to be stunted and yellow and growth crawls to a halt.
There are ways to mitigate this problem. Fulvic and humic acid, as well as living beneficial biology, can help break down the relatively immobile cal-mag in your tap water and allow it to become more available to the plants. This process takes time and is not guaranteed to free up all the cal-mag in an efficient manner. The whole idea behind hydroponics is to minimize your time and maximize your harvests. There is no time to wait around for the cal-mag to be made available. What the plants need is cal-mag that they can readily absorb and use immediately.
Another way to acquire deficiencies is by not adding enough cal-mag to your nutrient formula when using purified water. Reverse Osmosis gives you the purest water possible and so you have to add the correct amount of cal-mag to ensure you have the proper feed solution. The best way to start your nutrient formula is to begin with purified water, add 50 to 250ppm cal-mag, and then add your additional macro- and micronutrients. The amount of cal-mag you add depends on the variety of plants, what stage in their life they are in, and the media you are using.
Certain growing media, such as coco coir, requires additional calcium due its cation exchange capacity properties. Growing in coco requires additional calcium, especially in the first few weeks of the plants life.
If you're running purified water than you def need to add cal/mag or at least mag. Your problem looks like a mag deficiency to me, which also leads to nitrogen def. which it also looks like you have. You can't burn your plants with cal/mag. Most guys will run 3-5 ml. of cal/mag throughout the entire grow when running ro water,which is similar to purified, but better. Add it to your water first before adding nutes.
Calcium and magnesium are listed as secondary nutrients, but are just as important to plant growth as NPK, and really are primary nutrients. Some bottled nutes have enough cal and mag in them already, others need to be supplemented.
I think if you throw 5ml of cal/mag from botanicare in with every watering, then you should be golden. cheers
db
Promix HP
I've given them Roots Organic dry ferts uprising bloom, organism XL and uprising grow along with liquid Trinity and Ancient Amber last watering at 6.6ph. Never really had a schedule besides giving them what it looks like they need. Watered when needed. Trying to keep it as organic as possible. I bought the roots organic 5ML Master Pack.
Used the above once about 2 weeks ago, is it enough? I thought the Cal % was a lot compared to Mag so I went very light on the feeding with it about 1/4 tsp mixed in ph'd RO water.
dimebag_
Active member
dude, I'm not familiar with the nutes you are running but I just looked it up on Aurora's site. I think u mean " player's pack" not master pack.I run Big Swell by Aurora for my pk booster thru bloom, and have tried Amino Aide as well. They are a solid company IMO.
First off- 6.6 ph is way too high for any medium. Try to stay between 5.8-6.2.
Secondly, you NEED a friggin nutrient schedule for sure. Aurora even offers you one for each of their nutrient lines. That way, you know exactly what you're giving them week to week, and are not flying blind. The nutrient companies spend a lot of time dialing in their lines so that they work for people when they use them. That way people continue to buy their shit. Also, certain nutes will often taper up or down week by week. It can be hard to remember exactly what you gave them the previous weeks without a proper ached.
I would stick pretty closely to the schedule they offer, but maybe just use a hair less than they say of everything, if your gonna change anything. Nutrient companies will tend to have you run it pretty spicy. That way you use up the nutes quickly and have to buy more. Until you are familiar with a specific nutrient line (no matter which one), theres really no way to know how to adjust it properly without trying it before. After using it a couple times, you can tell which things you mite be able to use more or less of. GOLDEN RULE-less is more.
Third, I don't have much experience growing cannabis in soil, but I have used straight coco coir. If you haven't watered in 2 weeks, then thats way too long. Your in an enert medium right? that means that there's no food avail to the plant unless you put it there. The plants are consuming whatever you're giving them out of the medium rapidly. You need to be watering light enough so that you can water them more frequently. That way they are constantly getting the nutrients that they want/need. You should try get yourself on a set watering day(s) sched like every day or every other day or every third day etc. Figure out how often for how long they need watered and put them on a watering timer. Set it and just check on them daily to make sure they're not dry. I think they kinda like it when they know when suppertime is…haha. I tend to water my rockwool once a day or twice a day later in flower…same time every day. They get watered first time right as lights go on.
Even if you're an expert grower, it can be hard to tell what a plant is needing just by looking at it. Symptoms of deficiencies show up after the deficiency is already there. It takes time for plants to react to what you're feeding them-its never really an immediate reaction unless maybe you're poisoning them to death somehow, under or over watering, or frying them with heat. Some deficiencies such as mag def. can sometimes take weeks to visibly show signs. Thats why having a schedule is key. You can feed them what they need as they need it, therefore not letting the deficiencies happen. They will perform at their best when they are given exactly what they need, are don't have to spend time and energy recovering from problems along the way.
whew! hope that helps kiddo…haha
cheers
db
Bwanabud
Active member
I would NOT alter the PH range, being an organic run in media...hang in the 6.5-6.8 range. If you have a healthy micro herd they should be controlling the PH anyway, start dropping to low and N will get dropped from availability range.
Most organic growers don't even bother with PH, they build a quality soil and allow the microbes to feed the plant.
Most organic growers don't even bother with PH, they build a quality soil and allow the microbes to feed the plant.
What do you think about the cal/mg from Roots Organic I posted? Says 1tsp per gal, just worried it has to much cal %.
dude, I'm not familiar with the nutes you are running but I just looked it up on Aurora's site. I think u mean " player's pack" not master pack.I run Big Swell by Aurora for my pk booster thru bloom, and have tried Amino Aide as well. They are a solid company IMO.
First off- 6.6 ph is way too high for any medium. Try to stay between 5.8-6.2.
Secondly, you NEED a friggin nutrient schedule for sure. Aurora even offers you one for each of their nutrient lines. That way, you know exactly what you're giving them week to week, and are not flying blind. The nutrient companies spend a lot of time dialing in their lines so that they work for people when they use them. That way people continue to buy their shit. Also, certain nutes will often taper up or down week by week. It can be hard to remember exactly what you gave them the previous weeks without a proper ached.
I would stick pretty closely to the schedule they offer, but maybe just use a hair less than they say of everything, if your gonna change anything. Nutrient companies will tend to have you run it pretty spicy. That way you use up the nutes quickly and have to buy more. Until you are familiar with a specific nutrient line (no matter which one), theres really no way to know how to adjust it properly without trying it before. After using it a couple times, you can tell which things you mite be able to use more or less of. GOLDEN RULE-less is more.
Third, I don't have much experience growing cannabis in soil, but I have used straight coco coir. If you haven't watered in 2 weeks, then thats way too long. Your in an enert medium right? that means that there's no food avail to the plant unless you put it there. The plants are consuming whatever you're giving them out of the medium rapidly. You need to be watering light enough so that you can water them more frequently. That way they are constantly getting the nutrients that they want/need. You should try get yourself on a set watering day(s) sched like every day or every other day or every third day etc. Figure out how often for how long they need watered and put them on a watering timer. Set it and just check on them daily to make sure they're not dry. I think they kinda like it when they know when suppertime is…haha. I tend to water my rockwool once a day or twice a day later in flower…same time every day. They get watered first time right as lights go on.
Even if you're an expert grower, it can be hard to tell what a plant is needing just by looking at it. Symptoms of deficiencies show up after the deficiency is already there. It takes time for plants to react to what you're feeding them-its never really an immediate reaction unless maybe you're poisoning them to death somehow, under or over watering, or frying them with heat. Some deficiencies such as mag def. can sometimes take weeks to visibly show signs. Thats why having a schedule is key. You can feed them what they need as they need it, therefore not letting the deficiencies happen. They will perform at their best when they are given exactly what they need, are don't have to spend time and energy recovering from problems along the way.
whew! hope that helps kiddo…haha
cheers
db
No it's the master pack for sure and it has a schedule to it, just bought it recently. I'll start upping the dose just so I know I'm not going to burn them. Any incite on that RO cal/mg I posted above? Think it'll suffice?
Bwanabud
Active member
Since you're running purified/RO water I wouldn't be concerned about the 20% Calcium rate, you need it anyway...the Magnesium is the one I'd watch for a deficiency problem. The PH controls the ability to absorb the nutrients, considering that ProMix is 5.4-5.6 straight out of the bag...it can drift low on you very fast.
If you're running an organic style, there is no need to flush...you are only driving your valuable microbes out the bottom of the pot. Your nutes feed the microbes, the microbes feed the plant.
A synthetic nutrient base in ProMix is a very different conversation, you are organic so stick to proven methods including 6.5-6.8 PH...and keep the microbes happy. Hygrozyme is an enzyme based additive that helps the microbes feed, prior to soil building necessary nutrient base...it helps with many issues really. Most organic growers start with a microbial base to fire the soil, whether and induced pre-packaged form...or a natural tea/amendments.
Bwanabud
Active member
dime, you go against 1000 articles and posts that confirm my post...you stated yourself that you don't grow cannabis, that you don't use Promix. I grow in Promix, I run pure synthetic,,,and have done multiple organic runs for taste comparisons. I'm running over 100 600w lights at a time, hundreds of vegging & cloned babies on top of that...I must be very lucky, or right
I don't have time to argue, I'm just trying to help...do your own research, check organic methods, check soil amendments...decide for yourself bgandgrow
I don't have time to argue, I'm just trying to help...do your own research, check organic methods, check soil amendments...decide for yourself bgandgrow
dime, you go against 1000 articles and posts that confirm my post...you stated yourself that you don't grow cannabis, that you don't use Promix. I grow in Promix, I run pure synthetic,,,and have done multiple organic runs for taste comparisons. I'm running over 100 600w lights at a time, hundreds of vegging & cloned babies on top of that...I must be very lucky, or right
I don't have time to argue, I'm just trying to help...do your own research, check organic methods, check soil amendments...decide for yourself bgandgrow
I take just about everyone's advice and implement it into the garden or at least look into their advice. Appreciate everyone's effort that has posted in this thread. This being my first indoor grow I wasn't ready at all and my plants suffered from that.
