"Mr extractor" discussion

[Gray Wolf]

Do you have any reputable third party lab analysis of product demonstrating the deposits of metal and PTFE and if so, would you please share?

 

[Gray Wolf]

I am most curious about your use of 9mm borosilicate tube for the extraction tube, which we too looked at because it is so obvious, but decided to not pursue it after considering the effect of shock sensitivity during sharp temperature gradients.

We even looked at having the glass coated inside and out with clear PTFE for the added safety, but decided it wasn't a good idea to have a pressurized glass vessel with flammable gas inside.

Sort of along the same lines of why the gas station won't fill your glass jug for you.

That leads me to the subject of liability insurance. May we see a copy of your policy and contact information to your carrier?

 

[vividavis]

Please post that story in the CLS mistakes, failures, and malfunctions thread!!!! I'd love to see some photos too if you have them.

It actually does happen.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread...p-thanks-to-unknown-flammable-R22-substitute&

 

[GratefulOne]

Let's please try to keep this thread on the topic of Mr Extractor and the problems/benefits of that system.

The product does not use a pump. Let's deal with pumps in the many pump threads.

 

[vividavis]

This is why he is claiming he doesn't use the pump in his system. He keeps bringing up and people keep claiming no fire has ever happened. Well it has. Its just some relevant proof that the appion shouldn't be used. He isnt talking out of his ass about that.

 

[GratefulOne]

None rated pumps are not safe. I don't think anyone here is saying that. People use them and it is changing quickly. The whole pump issue in this thread has been a personal attack on one guy and not correct.

I have been following Grey Wolf for a few years. The first thing I ever read from Grey Wolf was him saying a non-rated pump was not the best choice and fire marshals would require rated pumps. I have never seen anything other than him saying this.

The issue if a rated pump should be used is not a current topic in the extraction world. Everyone is in agreement that it should be a rated pump. We need to all say this together and not let this point derail conversations.

Anyone who is saying TODAY that a non-rated pump is safe is not current with the industry.

Anyone who claims the industry says it is OK to use a non-rated pump is not informed of the current state of things or misleading people on purpose.

Making issues of topics everyone agrees on is ConnoisseurConc using misdirection.

Issue about pumps that would be nice to in this thread but really should also be in the pumps thread:
-ConnoisseurConc claims he has proven test results to back up his opinion paper he released about pumps. So far he refuses to show this proof. He's opinion paper was released many months ago. No reason to not show the proof on day one if he really has it. Other people have run lab testing with results published and show his claims not to be true.

I don't know ConnoisseurConc or Grey Wolf and really wanted to hear a serious discussion about this product. So far ConnoisseurConc refuses to speak directly to any issue with depth. His whole attitude has been insulting to the readers and confused with his personal history with Grey Wolf.

It would be great if this thread could stop all personal attacks and grouping huge amounts of people into the same group.

 

[vividavis]

I'm not referring to GW or even implying that he is recommending them. This isn't personal at all. I don't know where Id be today if it wasn't for him and people like him putting themselves out there and making the flow of information and knowledge public. I just posted that because I keep seeing over and over people saying that there isn't a documented case of a fire with an appion.

 

[GratefulOne]

VERY sorry if you thought I meant you. CC refers to ConnoisseurConc and the comments/attacks he has made.

CC has been making personal attacks on Grey Wolf and some others have been making personal attacks on the video women in the Mr Ext video. It would help the thread if everyone stopped this and we could stick the relevant facts and topics of the thread.

I corrected the post to read more clearly.

 

[Gray Wolf]

This is why he is claiming he doesn't use the pump in his system. He keeps bringing up and people keep claiming no fire has ever happened. Well it has. Its just some relevant proof that the appion shouldn't be used. He isnt talking out of his ass about that.

The question is has one been blown up in butane extraction service, and the link you provided clearly shows flammable substance X caught fire during refrigerant recovery from a home refrigerant system. Exciting but no explosion, though presumably indoors.

Still unknown but thought to be R290, or something equally high pressure, vis a vis low pressure n-Butane.

Nothing on ventilation or an identification of the source of the leak.

Sooner or later someone will, for one reason or another, but the issue is perspective. How likely is it to happen and if they have paid attention to adequate ventilation outdoors, how serious will an event be?

And to bring us full circle again. Does that in any way affect the list of issues I've identified above???

 

[Blazingbeauty]

VERY sorry if you thought I meant you. CC refers to ConnoisseurConc and the comments/attacks he has made.

CC has been making personal attacks on Grey Wolf and some others have been making personal attacks on the video women in the Mr Ext video. It would help the thread if everyone stopped this and we could stick the relevant facts and topics of the thread.

I corrected the post to read more clearly.

K
I couldn't agree more. I am new to this site and I want to get involved and learn everything I can. I am greatly disappointed in the amount of "low blows" that have been issued by everyone. It saddens me to think that two girls that were probably paid to do these videos are the center of attack in a lot of this thread. Both girls were professional and did their jobs. I feel bad for them and would be surprised if they have not seen this thread. What a awful thing to do to someone. However, I have been impressed with gray wolf and his level of respect and maturity on this site. He was called into this debate and has been attacked as well. He has handled himself very well and I can see why the community looks up to him and respects him. I will be following him now because I believe he is someone that gives back to the community. It is impressive to see the things he does with out any mention of being paid. I understand that all businesses need to make a profit and have no ill feelings towards CC for doing so, every company on the market is doing the same thing, that's business. I would like to see all of the questions answered because they are important CC. The community should know if they are operating a safe piece of equipment without putting their lives in jeopardy. I by no means am convinced that your machine is unsafe. But leaving a conversation before it is finished and not answering questions seems a little concerning. I hope that everyone is done with their games and unnecessary comments and can get on track and finish this civilly. I want to buy a extraction device and I really want as much info as I can!

 

[cyphaman]

Grey Wolf I respect you and your work. In these years we have found ourselves on different sides of the same coin. This isn't going to be fun or pretty, but that's how it is. I want to answer every single question you have. Your going to have to answer mine, at least I would ask that you would. The problem with the format that you have provided is while I am answering one question, some one is responding to the last one multiplied by 50 and it becomes a mess. I will stick this out until we are somewhat satisfied, this would for sure become the never ending debate and we are both busy men.

Im going to start with the answer to a few of your questions all rolled into one.

I dislike public appearances. Ive been like this for a long time and it is mainly for the fact of being in the industry that we are in. In many companies the inventors stay in the lab, and the marketers and salesmen do their job. Same here. I have no desire to be in the lime light. Im not selling myself, but my product. I left that to the girls, because they enjoy it.

I realized that was not was was desired by the community. They want to see a male, and a person to represent the product. I will do this. This is my way of beginning this process. I will come here and answer any questions, even dumb ones about the color of the belt on the ladies as long as its presented in a civil way. Our next videos will have me in it. I wanted to make it about the product, and not me.

As to the ladies in the video. You have brought up some danger issues, which stem off into many directions. I feel that in all honesty you are not one to point the finger here, but thats just how it is.

Lets address the static issue. I will play devils advocate here for a moment. Lets say that Kendals dress was the most statically charge device in existence. She would be positively charged. The moment she reached out and touched the handle of the device to purge the oxygen, she would discharge onto the exterior of the device. The problem with your theory is that she would discharge as she touched the handle, a metal handle completely grounded to the device. Once she touches it she would be discharged. All this occurs in a millisecond,before the valve has a chance to be opened exposing the discharge to any gasses. Even if she opened it as fast as humanly possible, there is no possibility of the gasses beating the spark.

Point two: You don't need to evacuate all the oxygen in the system for it to function. When we purge the oxygen out, we do just that. The oxygen is not flammable in a relative sense compared to butane. We use butane's pressure to expel the oxygen up and out. What comes out is air, not butane. No one is suggesting you free flow butane into the atmosphere.

As far as being a pipe bomb, two thing would need to occur. It would need to be sealed, and there would need to be a spark introduced into it.

Devils advocate: I had a buddy who was a gas guy who worked with gas lines. He worked with it live and I always asked if it was safe. He explained that the problem is the accumulation of gasses in an area, not the pipe igniting. He then proceeded to light the gas line on fire which I thought was crazy. And it just shot a low flame out of it. Just like a torch, or lighter, co2 burner or fireplace.

In order for this to become a bomb a few things would have to happen. There would have to be the correct oxygen to fuel ratio. Not just oxygen in the system. A perfect ratio. There would also have to be an internal ignition source.

One: there will never be an internal ignition source. We do not run our solvent through electrical devices such as vac pumps and HVAC units. Fire rated or not, its plugged in.

Two: Static. I've explained this before but I will do so here again. When you are positively charged you cannot produce a shock between your two fingers because you are grounded to yourself. You are also not producing internal sparks the whole time. If the exterior of the device, when sealed, was exposed to a shock it could not produce an internal shock due to also being grounded to itself, just like your body. The spark would occur on the exterior, and have no relation to the oxygen levels inside the unit. There in no way for this device to ignite any more than a can or tank of butane.


There is a very simple fix for those that still want to vac the unit. We simply offer a stainless column with a 1/4 threaded npt port on the side of it. All the parts of the device are interchangeable. We currently have 4 column options. Extremely low cost, tube and ferrules, and you could vac the device all you like. You would also be able to put whatever vac fittings you have and not be held hostage by out $100 gas fitting we would use.

Im sorry I missed the part where you didn't dance in circles, avoiding pretty near every question and or point that GrayWolf Mentioned, I am SO sorry if its overwhelming for you but there are a shit ton of great points brought up, none of which you answered in this long Bullshit filled essay, mostly covering how you personally feel about Graywolf being a voice for those of us who value our safety in this Community. Wheres the facts? Did you notice how simple each question of GW's was, he even altered the color of his text, so to distinguish it from yours! Science.

 

[cyphaman]

So let me understand this. Your going to tell me that GreyWolf has NEVER said that an appion is safe to use, yet has pictures of him using it all over his site. So what exactly is going on here then? But your going to sit here and berate me on a one second off gas of oxygen. When we have both been open blasting for ten years?Seriously. If you got a fire marshal to approve of a non fire rated Hvac pump to run butane you both had better take a serious look at your actions. Just because you can trick some unknowing fire marshal into something doesn't mean shit. I absolutely, positively, GUARANTEE that if you showed a fire marshal appions own documents about explosion and contamination issues and told him it was just because they were tired of rebuilding pumps he would look at you like you were straight full of shit. I mean its not like they repeated keep putting out documents very, VERY clearly telling you guys to stop doing this and telling you exactly why. That is one of the reasons I personally get so upset, because you guys just don't get it. You'll make every excuse in the book why this is ok and it is not. You speak for companies when you have no right to do so. When they speak you disregard it, and blow off their warnings. You tried to do it to me today. Lucky for me I work with that company and know exactly how they feel about the valves. And lucky for me I have personally spoken to the engineers at appion about this issue in the past and you sir are not correct on either statement.

You are wrong about leaching. Again, I work in an industry that may be a little too precise for this issue. PTFE leaches into butane.

lol dude you obviously dont know Graywolf, hes been using an explosion proof TRS21 recovery pump and advocating that this be the ONLY recovery pump, aside from a Haskel or Caresaver used for our purposes....These may have been used at one time, like many have.......But people learn, and people evolve.

ok im done lol http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

 

[Snype]

lol dude you obviously dont know Graywolf, hes been using an explosion proof TRS21 recovery pump and advocating that this be the ONLY recovery pump, aside from a Haskel or Caresaver used for our purposes....These may have been used at one time, like many have.......But people learn, and people evolve.

ok im done lol http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

You sure the TR21 is explosion proof?

Edit: I just found a link to the TRS21. Thanks! Didn't know about this pump!
http://www.johnstonesupply.com/storefront/product-view.ep?pID=H93-187

 

[vividavis]

The question is has one been blown up in butane extraction service, and the link you provided clearly shows flammable substance X caught fire during refrigerant recovery from a home refrigerant system. Exciting but no explosion, though presumably indoors.

Still unknown but thought to be R290, or something equally high pressure, vis a vis low pressure n-Butane.

Nothing on ventilation or an identification of the source of the leak.

Sooner or later someone will, for one reason or another, but the issue is perspective. How likely is it to happen and if they have paid attention to adequate ventilation outdoors, how serious will an event be?

And to bring us full circle again. Does that in any way affect the list of issues I've identified above???

Yeah I honestly don't know much more about the subject. I came across the forum while searching for a proper pump to replace the one I currently use. I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't know where or what I'd be doing today if it wasn't for you. I wasn't trying to fuel CC's fire. I just read forum post and got pretty alarmed. Thanks for always taking the time to respond. You have no idea how much you have inspired me to continue my education!

 

[Hydrosun]

...

 

[Gray Wolf]

Yeah I honestly don't know much more about the subject. I came across the forum while searching for a proper pump to replace the one I currently use. I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't know where or what I'd be doing today if it wasn't for you. I wasn't trying to fuel CC's fire. I just read forum post and got pretty alarmed. Thanks for always taking the time to respond. You have no idea how much you have inspired me to continue my education!

Thanks! I appreciate you bringing any and all information to the party, whether it is supportive or in opposition and educational. We all have at least the opportunity to learn with new data points.

 

[grow nerd]

Still dodging the elbow issue, too, I see.

 

[NorPene Solutions]

You sure the TR21 is explosion proof?

Edit: I just found a link to the TRS21. Thanks! Didn't know about this pump!
http://www.johnstonesupply.com/storefront/product-view.ep?pID=H93-187

No, the TR 21 is not explosion proof.

The TRS 21 is the "Spark Proof" version.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Well. I have been in contact with the managers of one of the largest celebrities in the world, and definitely in the cannabis world. They have asked me to come to the Xgames in Colorado and present them with the first Mr. Extractor off the line. I think that I'm going to take some time off the internet and go handle that. Things like that can go either way and might not happen, but I'm going to do my best. I'm meeting with the owners of a major magazine tomorrow on the device. Also, in the demo today I received two sales on the larger units sight unseen based off of a demo of the little unit and the product it produces. I'm just getting a little too busy, and off track.

So I will try to get back to answer some questions when I have a moment but I need to focus on these priorities. But your questions are important and I will do my best to get back to you on them. Thanks for your time. I hope that you guys have a few things to talk about. Thanks for letting me speak my piece.
Drew.

Please give the manager of "one of the largest celebrities in the world" a hug and our best regard.

Yeah, everyone is wanting interviews aren't they? We were featured in High Times, were filmed last month for a documentary and I had another magazine interview Tuesday, with crew coming up for followup, so it looks like more people are interested in cannabis and starting to ask questions of names recognized for reliability in the industry.

I've even been interviewed by a state Senator writing legislation, and recruited by CENTA to help write standards for the cannabis extraction industry.

From my perspective, that not only goes to show you how desperate folks are trying to find experts, but that you aren't the only one with a full plate, whom is trying to resolve this issue.

One of the frequent questions that come by me are related to hydrocarbon extraction safety and malpractices in the industry.

Thank you for the video and promotional media to use as a bad example!!

And back to the matter at hand, do we infer from this that Drew has withdrawn from this discussion using the busy important man plaudit, to avoid answering questions you wish to avoid.

OK, I guess that puts the ball in our court, so I answer with the kindly avuncular admonition that you either return to this discussion and resolve the questions without further avoidance or misdirection here on IC Mag, or I will spread them on every cannabis forum I participate on, as well as Skunk Pharm Research home page.

Your move brother.

PS: You may skip the question's in blue, inserted in your original text, which you believed a plaudit, and found repugnant, just satisfactorily answer my last comparison of the two systems and following list of direct questions without further misdirection and personal attacks.

 

[youareaniceguy]

Who is anyone even speaking to at this point? It's like playing racquet ball against the drapes up in this thread. I'm sure if everyone just hits the ball harder it will eventually return.