man I am going to school on this thread..I'm "literally" making notes...thanks Leadsled AND everyone else and of course : Schrews
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MotherLode Gardens 2016
- Thread starter Shcrews
- Start date
http://www.pikeagri.com/products
I am not saying buy from here but this shows the meters available. Plus that stainless steel hydraulic press looks bad ass.
I am not saying buy from here but this shows the meters available. Plus that stainless steel hydraulic press looks bad ass.
i still want a consultant to give me a tailored amendment list... but i was waiting to send in tests to logan labs until the plants are in the soil, as leadsled said to do... I have my FGL test results but leadsled said those arent the right kind
leadsled you said i need boron + silica + calcium, can you tell that from the test results i posted? if so, how do you recommend i amend for silica and calcium?
will be ordering a bunch of stuff today or tomorrow. Also will put in my soil order i think.
Thanks guys for all the input. I have a lot to do but feel pretty confident that i can get everything dialed in for planting in may. I will always ask more questions so thanks for sticking around!
Shcrews...you should at least get your major base cations before you plant. Otherwise you limit yourself to using sulfates or the stuff wont leach into the main rootzone.
FGL uses base cation %s...so you could do Ca, Mg, K now. Then check micros.
What page are your tests on....I have forgotten.
If you need Ca and Si you can use Vansil W10 from customhydronutrients. It is like 34% Ca and 51.5% SiO2
FGL uses base cation %s...so you could do Ca, Mg, K now. Then check micros.
What page are your tests on....I have forgotten.
If you need Ca and Si you can use Vansil W10 from customhydronutrients. It is like 34% Ca and 51.5% SiO2
here's the tests again.. all this chemistry stuff is way over my head still!
Attachments
So you definitely need B. You can: a) use borax at 11 grams per yard, or 44 grams per 800 gallon pot or b) order solubar and use half that amount. Water it in cause you will never get that small amount evenly distributed in your pots.
You could actually use more B except I am assuming you plan to spray Photomag, which already contains B.
You do not need Ca...basically if you look near the bottom of the report all of your soils are right around 80% Ca. You only need to be at 68% so I would not add any Ca at all.
Whether you need silica or not I could not say since it is not reported. If you send a sample to Logan Labs ask for AEA base plus test, it will tell you silca plus a couple of other things. And if you don't mind spending another $18 also ask for a Carbon to Nitrogen ratio.
Your two main problems are going to be Potassium (K) and Nitrogen. You are also short on sulfate...eventually you will have to use elemental sulfur to fix that. If it were me I would wait til this season is over and do it once you get the stalks pulled.
So Nitrogen...you gotta tell me if you want to stay strictly organic or not. If it were me, and it ain't, I would address that N and the sulfate with ammonium sulfate. If you wanna stay organic something like alfalfa and feather meal would work...you need a quick release and a slow release.
The most difficult thing to deal with is going to be the K. Because you are over on both Ca and Mg you are not going to be able to get K to stick to the cation exchange sites. If it were me I would fertigate some Potassium Sulfate on a weekly basis...that way you will have ions available in soluble form the entire grow. It will also add sulfate and help with that S shortage if you choose to stay organic on the N. And Potassium Sulfate is organic so no issue there. You can get it here https://customhydronutrients.com/di..._33_171.html?zenid=b62h1101igagntvpr8l78qn077, along with solubar if you want to go that way
You have really good soil, all it needs is a couple of tweaks. Nothing major at all.
edit...I am guessing you are gonna want to add some Manganese also but I am not familiar enough with the FGL report to know. If lbs/AF means lbs/acre furrow slice then you do, if you want to ask those guys if that is what it means.
You could actually use more B except I am assuming you plan to spray Photomag, which already contains B.
You do not need Ca...basically if you look near the bottom of the report all of your soils are right around 80% Ca. You only need to be at 68% so I would not add any Ca at all.
Whether you need silica or not I could not say since it is not reported. If you send a sample to Logan Labs ask for AEA base plus test, it will tell you silca plus a couple of other things. And if you don't mind spending another $18 also ask for a Carbon to Nitrogen ratio.
Your two main problems are going to be Potassium (K) and Nitrogen. You are also short on sulfate...eventually you will have to use elemental sulfur to fix that. If it were me I would wait til this season is over and do it once you get the stalks pulled.
So Nitrogen...you gotta tell me if you want to stay strictly organic or not. If it were me, and it ain't, I would address that N and the sulfate with ammonium sulfate. If you wanna stay organic something like alfalfa and feather meal would work...you need a quick release and a slow release.
The most difficult thing to deal with is going to be the K. Because you are over on both Ca and Mg you are not going to be able to get K to stick to the cation exchange sites. If it were me I would fertigate some Potassium Sulfate on a weekly basis...that way you will have ions available in soluble form the entire grow. It will also add sulfate and help with that S shortage if you choose to stay organic on the N. And Potassium Sulfate is organic so no issue there. You can get it here https://customhydronutrients.com/di..._33_171.html?zenid=b62h1101igagntvpr8l78qn077, along with solubar if you want to go that way
You have really good soil, all it needs is a couple of tweaks. Nothing major at all.
edit...I am guessing you are gonna want to add some Manganese also but I am not familiar enough with the FGL report to know. If lbs/AF means lbs/acre furrow slice then you do, if you want to ask those guys if that is what it means.
plantingplants
Active member
Hey milkyjoe, thanks for your posts, I'm learning a lot. I figured this is a relevant question for Shcrews, too: it doesn't look like Logan Labs has N on their sample tests? Why Is that?
Also, shcrews, my soil sample of your Coots mix with Oly should arrive at LL today. I figure you'd like to see the results so I'll post them when I get them. The mix is slightly different then yours since I made it almost a full 40 yards and they didn't use portions of the amendment bags..
Did you get 8" round chunks of dense black compost in yours? They didn't seem to crush/mix it very well. Also some chunks of fairly new grayish green manure. Maybe this is standard though.
Also, shcrews, my soil sample of your Coots mix with Oly should arrive at LL today. I figure you'd like to see the results so I'll post them when I get them. The mix is slightly different then yours since I made it almost a full 40 yards and they didn't use portions of the amendment bags..
Did you get 8" round chunks of dense black compost in yours? They didn't seem to crush/mix it very well. Also some chunks of fairly new grayish green manure. Maybe this is standard though.
Logan Labs does not do nitrogen on their base test nor do they do Si, Mo, Co or Se. If you ask for an AEA plus they will do their base plus Si, Mo, Co and Se. You have to ask for the test where they do nitrate, ammonical and organic nitrogen plus a C:N ratio.
Call them and ask specifically for those things. Eventually you want to narrow your C:N ratio down to at least 20:1. Chances are it won't be that low at first.
Call them and ask specifically for those things. Eventually you want to narrow your C:N ratio down to at least 20:1. Chances are it won't be that low at first.
leadsled
Member
I thought I saw you mention hiring BAS and getting a logan lab test. So though you already got that going.
Love to do the recommendations but let me eloborate.
Logan labs:
Better to use the same lab over and over again. That way you have an accurate baseline. Switching labs will skew the results. Trying to get you on the same page as everyone else. Can do the math based on the test like milky mentions.
I prefer I do your recommendation based off the logan lab test. You are then working with what many of us are also using. You will then get the most accurate results. I want to see you succeed and also see improvements on your crop. I have done alot of recommendations off logan tests and all is good.
Recommendations based on FGL. I feel we can safely say to add the boron. Can also do math based on there results.
Hope that explains more about the logan tests .
Just to be sure I am clear. You reposted saying you need calcium. No.
Calcium you got enough of it. It is not available.
You do need boron and probably silica. Gotta do the logan lab test to get the exact amount of silica you have.
You at least need the 1ppm or boron and have been given how much to add.
20 mule team borax you can get a hardware store or rite aide/walmart etc.
When! Get the logan labs test, last week or asap. Before you plant.
Getting a test while plants are planted. That is the logan labs saturated paste test.
Hope that clears things up. Any more questions please ask.
Milkyjoe thanks for sharing all excellent points.
So I looked at the test again...they specifically say nitrate N. They are not telling you how much organic N or ammonical N.
Without that I cannot say even if you need N or not. Sorry about that.
edit...those available numbers don't mean anything at this point unless you have a healthy cover crop growing. In an organic system you need plant root exudates to feed the bacteria/fungus, they then make stuff available.
Without that I cannot say even if you need N or not. Sorry about that.
edit...those available numbers don't mean anything at this point unless you have a healthy cover crop growing. In an organic system you need plant root exudates to feed the bacteria/fungus, they then make stuff available.
plantingplants
Active member
milkyjoe, what is nitrate N? It only counts N in nitrate form? Is ammoniacal nitrogen also called ammonium nitrate?
Is there a good online basic primer for this stuff? It's kind of mind boggling.
Also, re:cover crops, while necessary as a source of root exudates (do they convert enough if they're only in the top layer of soil?), do you have to manage them so they don't compete?
Is there a good online basic primer for this stuff? It's kind of mind boggling.
Also, re:cover crops, while necessary as a source of root exudates (do they convert enough if they're only in the top layer of soil?), do you have to manage them so they don't compete?
Planting plants, within the plant the main forms of Nitrogen are nitrate (NO3-), Ammonium (NH4+), and the N that exists as amino acids, proteins, chlorophyll, etc. Nitrate is primarily how people in this industry are supplying their plants with N. It's an anion and will acidify the sap. If you look on the back of fertilizer bottles you'll see nitrate salts, potassium and calcium mainly. If you overload your plants this way you're asking for trouble outdoors. Indoors you're given more leeway because you can control the environment and too some extent keep pests at bay. However, people will find that the bugs still come out of nowhere eventually if you're fertility is unbalanced.
Anyway, the alternative to the bottle is supporting soil life. When microbes break down organic matter the form of N that is available first is Ammonium. Plants uptake some and the rest converts to nitrite then nitrate. These organisms exist because of plants constantly putting carbon into the soil, which they consume. The goal in using cover crops is microbial maintenance, but I think at some point you're correct in assuming competition with cannabis if they get out of control. Competition for water and nutrients. The common strategy is to keep the cover crops small, either chopping them regularly or mulching in right before you plant. A legume cover crop, for example will release N from the decomposing nodules and foliage once its tilled in.
Anyway, the alternative to the bottle is supporting soil life. When microbes break down organic matter the form of N that is available first is Ammonium. Plants uptake some and the rest converts to nitrite then nitrate. These organisms exist because of plants constantly putting carbon into the soil, which they consume. The goal in using cover crops is microbial maintenance, but I think at some point you're correct in assuming competition with cannabis if they get out of control. Competition for water and nutrients. The common strategy is to keep the cover crops small, either chopping them regularly or mulching in right before you plant. A legume cover crop, for example will release N from the decomposing nodules and foliage once its tilled in.
so i think i fried my plants.. left the plastic on the hoophouses on for a few days when it was hot... they are all yellow and droopy. looks like they will live but they are not lookin good
it sucks but it's my fault for not paying more attention and being on top of it. I tried to use the greenhouse to give my plants a head start and they ended up gettin fucked up instead. i would have been better off just doing without it like last year. oh well
i'm going to plant some more seeds today i think. Full moon last night, it's not too late to start fresh! and who knows maybe the babies will bounce back. I feel like an idiot.
bunch of other stuff to do, send in soil tests, order new soil, make AEA / Tainio purchases... plus finish weedwhacking and cleaning the garden
it sucks but it's my fault for not paying more attention and being on top of it. I tried to use the greenhouse to give my plants a head start and they ended up gettin fucked up instead. i would have been better off just doing without it like last year. oh well
i'm going to plant some more seeds today i think. Full moon last night, it's not too late to start fresh! and who knows maybe the babies will bounce back. I feel like an idiot.
bunch of other stuff to do, send in soil tests, order new soil, make AEA / Tainio purchases... plus finish weedwhacking and cleaning the garden
plantingplants
Active member
When you try new things there's always a learning curve. I lost that whole tray of seedlings. It sounds like yours will survive and be fine. Last year I burnt mine with sulfur and thought they were done for but they did fine.
It seemsalittle late to start regular seed, no? By the time they're sexed it'll be mid to late June right? I just got some extra fem seeds because my starts are a little slow just growing in the sun.
There will always be problems. You just gotta keep on.
It seemsalittle late to start regular seed, no? By the time they're sexed it'll be mid to late June right? I just got some extra fem seeds because my starts are a little slow just growing in the sun.
There will always be problems. You just gotta keep on.
Dude it needs to get wicked hot in there to do that much damage. Were you gone for a few days or something? I walk out and open my GH as I'm sippin my first cup of coffee.
Were you trying to raise soil temps or something? Thats gnarly. I've never actually seen that happen and I've stepped into some super hot GH's.
Why don't you get some clones cut? Its not too late. Or buy some. I plug seeds the first week of may usually if the weather is good. That is a bummer deal. But they will honestly probably pull out of it by 6/1
I'd foliar a light dose of kelp.
Were you trying to raise soil temps or something? Thats gnarly. I've never actually seen that happen and I've stepped into some super hot GH's.
Why don't you get some clones cut? Its not too late. Or buy some. I plug seeds the first week of may usually if the weather is good. That is a bummer deal. But they will honestly probably pull out of it by 6/1
I'd foliar a light dose of kelp.
O
Oakhills
That SUCKS!!!! Can you water them with something like B52 from Advanced Nutrients or something? Maybe that will help the shock they've experienced. Sending out healing vibes.....
If you try the hoop house again, leave the ends open during the day so the wind will blow through and let the heat escape..... I know...too little too late. At least it's not too late to sprout more seeds for the season
