milk makes your bones strong... fact or myth?

[RetroGrow]

The dairy and beef industry are not sustainable, especially with the way water is these days.

Plants based sources of calcium are better for your bones than milk is. Can we all agree on that?

My gf drinks local raw goats milk and loves it.

I've made many posts on the environmental damage caused by the raising of 1.3 billion head of cattle on planet earth. Nothing else comes close to the scope of said damage. All the grain wasted to feed them, all the pesticides and fertilizers used to grow said grain, which end up in our oceans and all the deforestation for the purpose of growing more soy to feed cattle, not to mention the immense water use (50% of water in western U.S. used for cattle) all make dairy farming and cattle ranching our #1 environmental problem. I won't get preachy about it in this thread, but if you want to learn more, Google "environmental effects of cattle ranching". It's at once shocking and depressing.

By the way, supposedly the healthiest type of milk is camel's milk. It is very expensive, and not too much fun to try and milk a camel.

 

[sprinkl]

I think I am on the milk is OK in moderation camp.

On the one side, there's the we're not baby cows argument, the Ca:Mg rates are actually bad for us and there are many people that have trouble digesting it. I'm not 100% convinced by those tbh. Though they do make sense, I don't consider it proof to say milk is bad.

On the other hand, what I do consider as very likely to have a bad effect is that
-cows eat unnatural diets consisting of mostly grains. Cows only eat grass in nature. They are also likely to be fed growth hormone(to produce more), antibiotics(to stay healthy with that unhealthy diet), pesticides(food), and other shit we don't want in our food. This goes for most of the produced meat we can get as well.
-milk pasteurization destroys many of the bio-active elements that could make milk beneficial

 

[oneofus]

I invited you, and gave you rep.

im open to all ideas and views, DIVERSITY IS HEALTHY.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sulphur-containing amino acids in protein-containing foods are metabolized to sulfuric acid. Animal foods provide predominantly acid precursors. Acidosis stimulates osteoclastic activity and inhibits osteoblast activity[/FONT]


As for the ciggies.......I never heard of not smoking increasing your risk for this....

Thanks for the invite and the rep. Very nice of you. I appreciate it.

I will not argue that there is not an increased risk to smoking.
At the same time, risk does not equal causation. Neither does correlation. Of which there is some in smoking. But I was not speaking of risk. I was speaking of causation. You cannot change the subject from one thing to another and expect any kind of reasonable debate to be able to move forward.

That said, on your side of the scale, there has been a fairly recent genetic discovery that implies an in-built weakness that some people have that may be the trigger for lung cancer. This may explain why some smokers die of lung cancer and others live till their 80's and 90's. We've all seen both sides and it would seem that both are correct. How to reconcile this is not yet known but will most likely be found through genetic research.

Anyway, that was just an idle off-topic comment that would have been better off not said. I hate going off-topic.

Back on topic, I will give you an answer about your comment in small print (mine has been doing that too off and on. I don't know why....) tomorrow when it's not so late except to say that the body works in mostly negative feedback loops using various chemical signals. You have discovered one of them.

Time for bed.

ETA - Thanks for being so open to new ideas. Not many are.

 

[tomfooler]

I was weaned from my mother's milk at an early age,,
certainly don't want to consume milk from another mammal..

 

[CosmicGiggle]

Well I'm in my late 60's and a life-long milk addict (minimum 1 qt. per day, vit. D fortified) and I have the beginning of osteoporosis and low vit. D levels too.

 

[shithawk420]

I'm not gonna get in argument here but I'm buzzed so I'll try to be as brief as I can.kale,and spinach has more protien and calcium than beef and milk.which is were Popeye and his spinach came from.this whole bs about how vegetarians and vegans are weak and sickly is bullshit. Not only does kale spinach and other greens have more protein and calcium they make the body naturally produce more creatine.the reason you see these bodybuilders eat beef and chicken is to bulk and gain more weight.not gain more muscle.when my dad was in prison he would trade his meat for fruits and veggies.he was taught by the best power lifters the prison system had to offer.nothing wrong with eating meat but let's try and get the facts straight about nutrition.sorry about going of topic but there are better alternatives to milk ,like soy and coconut

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

I just read an article a few weeks ago that suggested excessive milk consumption actually ages you faster. I don't know the ins and outs it was something to do with the sugars lactose and galactose not being too good for your body.

I know a lot of people drink 1% or skim thinking its the healthier option, but realistically skim and 1% are actually worse for you because the good fat has been stripped leaving more lactose (sugar), you are actually better off to drink whole milk it might even make you slimmer.

Im not going to say its good or bad, Im going to say everything in moderation and I will say quality counts, a nice organic whole milk should be better for you then the super cheap ultra watered down questionable quality generic brand milk.

Ultimately raw milk is probably best for your health.

One thing I know for sure, you are what you eat. You will notice a huge difference when you treat yourself to high quality food, this goes for organic produce and locally raised hormone and antibiotic free beef and high quality cage free eggs.

 

[m314]

One thing I know for sure, you are what you eat.

I better stop eating vegetables then. I don't want to be a vegetable.

I don't have milk all the time, but when I do it's only whole milk. Whole milk cottage cheese is a staple of my diet. It's one of the perfect foods for a bodybuilding diet. Saturated fat's bad reputation is undeserved.

 

[mowood3479]

I'm not gonna get in argument here but I'm buzzed so I'll try to be as brief as I can.kale,and spinach has more protien and calcium than beef and milk.which is were Popeye and his spinach came from.this whole bs about how vegetarians and vegans are weak and sickly is bullshit. Not only does kale spinach and other greens have more protein and calcium they make the body naturally produce more creatine.the reason you see these bodybuilders eat beef and chicken is to bulk and gain more weight.not gain more muscle.when my dad was in prison he would trade his meat for fruits and veggies.he was taught by the best power lifters the prison system had to offer.nothing wrong with eating meat but let's try and get the facts straight about nutrition.sorry about going of topic but there are better alternatives to milk ,like soy and coconut

Soy? No thanks,
My body responds horribly to soy and I've read it contributes to higher estrogen levels in men... Idk how much truth there is to that.. I just know how awful consuming soy make me feel

 

[hamppumuikkunen]

I think I saw a statistic somewhere that the countries that had the highest milk consumption had also the highest rate of osteoporosis. So... I'm not claiming direct correlation, but if you want strong bones you might want to do something more than just drink milk and hope for strong bones

Good diet emphasizing a lot of fruits, vegetables and leafy greens (where does the cow get it's calcium?) combined with lifting heavy would be my best guess for success.

 

[jd4083]

Cow's milk isn't really healthy for human consumption overall and I'm pretty sure the only reason that we as a nation have the perception that it is "good for growing bodies" (aside from the supplemental calcium, obviously) is because of particularly effective advertising on behalf of the dairy industry. I used to drink a LOT of milk, especially when I was lifting heavily and often (skim milk in protein shakes, etc., going through 1/2-1gal every day or two) and I've essentially cut it out of my diet over the last two years and noticed that I just generally feel better overall. Anecdotal evidence at best, I know, but science generally agrees that milk is not only not particularly useful for humans, it is often specifically not good for them.

 

[stoned-trout]

as a kid the local dairy added vit d to their milk product..well somehow once they fucked it up and some peeps got real sick I think someone might of even died......I cant quit milk as my white Russian would turn black....yeehaw ..drink it if ya got it...

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Soy? No thanks,
My body responds horribly to soy and I've read it contributes to higher estrogen levels in men... Idk how much truth there is to that.. I just know how awful consuming soy make me feel

Soy is absolute trash, it's the #1 GMO crop too so you can guarantee it contains high levels of chemical herbicide like glyphosate.

 

[dddaver]

I can say I have never seen a cow that had an obvious case of scoliosis.

 

[Enchantre]

I can say I have never seen a cow that had an obvious case of scoliosis.

....because cows eat grass, and other dark green leafy plants. Well, healthy ones in pastures do.

Cows don't drink milk. Calves do, until they are weaned, and then they eat green leafy plants. No adult animal drinks milk, except humans.

I cannot have dairy. I tried organic, grass-fed, raw, naturally cultured dairy products, and I STILL cannot tolerate it, so it must be the actual protein I'm allergic to.

One of our grandchildren is allergic to casein. That's the glue in dairy, and it is used in a LOT of other processed foods for texture/cohesion.

I just about destroyed my health entirely when I was a vegetarian/vegan (this spanned almost 10 years) - I cannot have gluten, soy, corn, legumes, dairy, or much fiber. Now, I'm healing myself using cannabis paste, paleo-style food, and rest.

Milk is for everybody - their own mother's milk, until they are old enough to wean (2-4 yrs old)... then, no. It really isn't.

 

[high life 45]

Im sorry to get off topic, it all ties into diet and health for me. We can call it a debate or we can call it a conversation. Im thinking of my future great great grandchildren, we are one species on the planet, some.may say we are the most intelligent, it I think from an outside view its quite the opposite. We are destroying the planet. Corporate interest is doing its best to keep it that way.

Imo soy is a big scam, its really not soy good for you. Tempeh is the only soy product ill happily consume. It does have high levels of phytoestrogens which can be troublesome for males and females alike..

Rice milk is a good option, I have my qualms with almonds because of its monocropping and how it is killing the bees. The pollen from almonds is not enough to sustain bees so they have to bring in bees from all over the world, this spreads foul brood and the mites bees get and they get brought back to other places in the world. Maybe we will make drones to pollenate our agriculture...

Coconuts are one of the best foods for humans and cocowater is sterile and has been used as blood plasma in various wars.

I have eaten many types of diets. From Atkins, to paleo, standard American diets, steak and chicken everyday, pizza 2x a day for months, frozen burritos for a week straight (till I got sick), 100% organic, vegetarian, vegan, and 100% raw vegan. I will say that raw vegan had me feeling and looking the best but its a diet best eaten in tropical areas where fresh fruits are readily available. And you have to maintain an extremely active lifestyle, in order to eat like a monkey, you have to live like a monkey.
Like another poster mentioned I learned about raw vegan from a body builder who called it gorilla strength. He is the strongest person per bodyweight I know. People often ask him if he's "juicing" (as in taking steroids) the only thing he is juicing is fruits and veggies. Gorillas are huge and extremely strong, they eat an all raw diet and can rip your arm right off your body, they do eat lots of small bugs. So they are not vegan. Many other cultures eat bugs and they are a good source of protein.

Bobble I will say that plant sources of calcium or protein are better for you than milk, for your entire body including bones.. I don't think anyone could say otherwise honestly.

Cows have more blood types than humans, and they all thrive on the same diet.

IMO if you look at our teeth and the way our jaws move its obvious we evolved for a primarily plant based diet vs a carnivorous one. We can eat meat, but comparing us to the rest of the planet inhabitants you'll see what I mean. All meat eating animals have long pointed teeth and their jaws go up and down only, not side to side. Think of dogs, coyotes and wolfs, cats and lions pumas, leopards cheetahs etc. Plant eating animals have comparatively flat teeth and their jaws go from side to side and up and down.

Spirulina is the most protein dense food on the planet, no meat even comes close to it at 50% protein by dry weight.

Humans have survived ice age after ice age, and we are adaptable. We can survive off of meat if we have to, I just think that there are better diets for us and the planet..I don't care if you eat meat, I just have concern as to how it was "produced/raised" and the effect that has on our planet.

That being said I think we ate alot of fish at one point in our life. I encourage everyone to check out the aquatic ape theory ted talk. It will blow your mind. I'll post a link to it later.

Sorry for the "off topic" rant but its all connected imo.

 

[high life 45]

I just about destroyed my health entirely when I was a vegetarian/vegan (this spanned almost 10 years) - I cannot have gluten, soy, corn, legumes, dairy, or much fiber. Now, I'm healing myself using cannabis paste, paleo-style food, and rest.
.

I have seem this time and time again. Unfortunately just because one is eating veg or vegan or any diet for that matter doesn't mean its a balanced diet. An unbalanced diet is still unbalanced no matter what you are eating. My friend is vegan and has had several kidney stones from eating an unbalanced diet. I had issues balancing my carb protein and fats with all my diets at first. Now I feel more in tune with my body and have a better understanding of what my body wants vs what I crave.

I'm glad that you are finding a regenerative response from your paleo diet. I know many people who eat this way and it has helped them tremendously.

 

[amannamedtruth]

There's other ways to keep your bones strong without drinking bovine infant formula.

Try leafy greens and mushrooms for your bones.

 

[aridbud]

you are going to bring osteoclasts into this eventually...yes?

Good one!

 

[aridbud]

There's other ways to keep your bones strong without drinking bovine infant formula.

Try leafy greens and mushrooms for your bones.

Right on. With the additives in grain or what cows ingest....there are other ways to ensure maximum calcium intake for bone health and general well being.

Used to be a big milk consumer growing up as a kid/teen.

Anymore, I try to find edibles of veggies, nuts high in essential/beneficial nutrients to substitute milk. Still use it sparingly (and organic, unadulterated milk) in cooking.