MASSIVE OUTDOOR GROW

[Julian]

Germed in 2.25round peat pots in 6 trays, all was going well first week. 180+ popped and out to cotyledons/beginning first true set. rain schedule was good (1 day rain, 2 or 3 days dry, repeat) for the last couple weeks, everything looking good.

Went back to check yesterday, grasshoppers or something ate the tops of everything. 3 new ones/survived ......out of 200+/-......

still have ~100 or so seeds that i could lose......probably same thing would happen again.

You were a couple weeks in?......WTF man, that's gotta hurt......

Well, still time...could keep a slightly closer eye on em and spray....

I feel you man.........really going to try to finish hitting each and every spot this week...(which have been extremely neglected and I have visions of insect damage and such.....(shaking head in disgust....)

All's not lost, but I'm a few steps back from where I'd like to be.

All is never lost my friend........(thanks for the reminder Sometimes need one myself when concerned )....

Fortunately, will have cash for new setup in a little over a month, getting ready to invest in some AFs, do a Fall AF fem seed run with CS (10k fem seeds out of 10 packs and 2k hps in 4x8 tent if all goes well). 2nd run under the lights will make up outlay. 3rd run, outlay for spring prep.

Still time also to get quick hit and run AF round outside (CS if access....still might myself if I can verify what is what and where and feel better across the board.....been taking my focus lately.....)

I'm feelin that idea about bouncin north/south/north/south doing AF runs

get a chance to travel a little extra while rakin in a bit more

probably a little more stress with final movement with the south stuff? but i'm guessing your people have logistics covered on that end so once plants are in you just sit back and
(except that you'll be doing everything else at the same time that allows no time for such relaxing)

In general.....more on that later.....

anyway, mosquitos?
what are we? pussies or living in AK with hummingbird sized bloodsuckers??
no, i know, they carry diseases and shit and can make it unbearable to work out on hot days. Worst is mosquitos+black flies landing on ya while going through poison sumac/oak/ivy (if allergic to those) and ya end up rubbin all of it around. Not my favorite, if you could tell.

That's what I sometimes say to others! (pussies ), but.......can be a problem when working or there for extended periods of time...things to do, etc......(Have to try and get last round planted asap...not looking forward to it, at all......and, lot of problems came along with that also.....

I'm wondering about mosquitoes also... In Denmark we haven't seen malaria or other serious infections from mosquitoes for centuries but I'm wondering if this might change.
Seeing how the West Nile Virus is found in Canada, and also moving up ein Europe I'm wondering how long it will be before we have our first cases.
Ticks suck too, I always wear jeans when I plan on "going in" no matter how hot it is because I definitely don't want to catch Lyme's disease.

I'm right there with ya......(jeans.....even for quick walk throughs most of the time will throw on boots also....due to maybe encountering water and such.....)....I find ticks a little better....easier to see, feel, etc.....

IM @ 33 DEGREES NORTH.... THINKIN BOUT DRIVING 4 HOURS TO 28 DEGREES NORTH ... AND STARTIN LATE SEASON WITH HARVESTED SEEDS ... MAYBE 1000 .. THINK THEYLL SURVIVE

Harvested now/soon/shortly?........Not sure, cause don't know minimal time for seeds....(between fresh and dried, etc.....maybe could be harvested and germed next day, maybe not...I have no idea...never tried and don't know........have never seen anything regarding minimal time on them, any drying time, etc.....might not be applicable, might...) But, then your talking a late Sept/Oct cutting and planting same time?....

Would have to check but would assume 28 near southern borders, (I know Nuevo Laredo is 27-28, San Ysidro like 32 or something and Culiacan is like 24-25 I think so).....if temps in line......might be the equivalent of 12/12 from seed/late planted...would have to check average temps in specific location (you...I don't want to know ) during flowering period.....If temps okay?...might very well work but then your addressing any dry time on seed, which I really don't know....

If temps right, if you get them in right?......Could work, but, I would talk more to someone in same region to see what they had to say....1,000 is a lot to germ and plant if you haven't before (trust me...it is ), but, granted, if smaller, a hell of a lot easier.....and quicker.....Oct-January not sure.....would have to check..(temps)...think could get to bottom very quick and might be very possible actually...would just (if me) verify any dry and or cure time on seed, and average temps for 90 days after planting in location (along with rainfall in those 3 months, etc)...(nighttime temps of course being priority......winter, depending on location can get a little too low (for plants..) sometimes a little far south...(or put it off and shoot for a early spring, etc...know people at those lats do Feb/March planting I think....)

quick question julian.
If you were to do a digging/ planting on different days. Would you recommend digging a hole and putting a dry mix down and then planting on another day... or the dry mix and planting on the same day while the digging be on previous day?

I know that its preference, however I was wondering if there were any disadvantages to putting the dry mix down for a day or 2 before the plants get to them?

Well...later ones, I always dig and prep and plant all at once, due to holes being so small (as compared to early season, larger holes, giving animals a chance to go through them first, which I don't always stick to....) and, of course, getting the nutes in there before is always nice, gives them a chance to start to break down and get to work, but, at this point in season, with tighter timeline, I usually do all of the above at the same time, so....(and, the same, water with same nutes I am using with starts indoors, etc......currently FN......)

If you have starts not quite ready to go out?....Feel free...(hit and prep holes and plant them net week, week after, etc.....)

Also remember to alter the mix a little because at this point they will essentially be going straight into flower, so.....(which, I water with the veg, which gets into crystals, but, go heavier on flower nutes....which also reminds one to remember what they are using....lot of stuff I use is a combination fast and slow release/breakdown, so......I have to sometimes adjust what I have left of mixes also (which I will be doing this week with what is left of my earlier dry mix....hit of more on flower side with some extras....)

Starting now indoors I can test and make sure they are 100% fem AF. I havent been this excited about a project in quite some time. Share the knowledge brother and I will do the same

As above (and reminding myself)...still time to get a quick round in outdoors, making you one round ahead (come Oct, etc, can do the indoor run (2nd run on them to test offspring, verify results of stock by Christmas or so, New Years, etc, and, start year with verified stock ready for spring....(still might scramble and get it done myself....)

Was going to do a fem run this summer outdoors, but i've been busy as all get out and haven't had any time to do anything. Besides, i don't want to risk losing expensive genetics to another outdoor germ ending in failure by way of insects feasting.

I still need to find a full auto that runs a slightly longer cycle (90-120 days) but pushes out 3-4 Ozs. Was planning a project with that a while ago but certain situations have sidetracked it.

As above.....still time, and, I know, when you have problems get a little cautious and shellshock as it were, but......still time to get something done......(For me?.....basically August 1st I wrap up planting, start on different feeding schedules (more or less, etc)........

2 weeks away as of today.......and then?......well, and then we're into the final run ..(and god knows I will be fuckin glad to wrap this season up..........

We're approaching the beginning of the end shortly...

Hope all are well.......hope all who are not can recover (myself included)........Hope season comes out well for all........and hope any lessons that come with it are learned (myself included ....)

The final stretch is on the way ....

Amen........

 

[Jungle Jim]

FirstTracks:

Brends skunkXNL is from east island seeds. they are available at hemp depot and others. In the outdoor strain guide (pg 12)silverback list his as being on July 19th. Potency 8.5 yield 3.5 oz. I can tell from some of the other strains he mentions, that we are on the same wave length with the potency scale he uses. If is is up there with Maple Leaf Indica Im all over it. I dont know when he put it out, but from his lat of 38 n I would say around May 10th or so. So 70 days give or take. I hear tell of other AF around, that are potent but cant seem to get any nailed down that are available. I would wait a bit but not wanting to get caught short, and not really knowing anyone on the boards that have any, im forced to get them from a "commercial" source. But hey: potent, good yield and done in 70 days start to finish, Im there man. Reefermans Nigerina Nighmare was a great plant, I grew it only one year but it did just what they said, no matter what daylength you were using as soon as you shortened it by 2-3 hours it would go into flower. Taste was decent, potency was acceptable. Unfortunatly, it is no longer available. That auto affie, I have heard about that, but dont know anyone that has any, or can get the beans.

Julian: I would like to do an outdoor by the end of this season to get a feel for them but just dont see it . Too many obligations that I gave my word that I would help on, you know how that goes. I can get close with the lights. Get a few packs, let them grow untill showing sex,then hopefully I can pick out the autos a little in advance, to start the CS on the next packs. I hate all of this go here go there always in a hurry. Always pressed for time. Im thinking,bust it for 70 days and only exposed for 30 of that, could it get any simpler ??

 

[rafe]

What a coincidence. I have Royal Dane pollen on the way to make some new crosses. I think I'll cross with a sativa and make it finish faster. Good luck on yours.

 

[Lex Dysic]

Thanks for the great read Julian. I'm enjoying it very much...and learning lots!!

I've been out of the scene for a couple years now...for good reasons.
Got lots of indoor experience...mostly big hydro trees...but am complete green pea doing outdoors. My intentions are to change that in a major fashion next summer.

I've ordered up 10 TFD fem mix with the intention of establishing moms. I'll be doing a small indoor show until early next year when I will be setting up for a big outdoor extravaganza. I've got lots to learn between now and then to pull it off proper so I hope you don't mind if I drop a few questions your way...

If these are subjects that have already been answered I apologize...perhaps a shove in the right direction??

How many mums do you think it will take to produce ~1K healthy soft tissue cuttings for three consecutive months starting in May?

I'm thinking a minimum of 20 healthy mothers....probably hydro for the fast recovery growth...
perhaps a waterfarm type setup??

What is your method of cloning?

I know...there are a millions cloning threads out there...but I...like many others...have had our problems...otherwise they wouldn't be there LOL. With these type numbers its even more daunting.

You seem to prefer using the fem seed...but I'm sure you have had struck plenty of cuttings in your day....any secrets to efficiently producing the BIG lots with high strike rate??


Autoflowering seems to be a big issue outdoors....totally new concept to me...what do you mean the sun has no timer?? LOL

The general concensus seems to be that mothers of clones destined for outdoors should be kept on a 15/9 or 16/8 light schedule...same for rooting clones going outside...

I know you've said you use 24/0 with no issues with your seed starts...
Is that true for your clones also??

I really like your idea about the early runs...get it out in mid/late Aug....is there any way that can this be done with regular (nonAF) strain?? Perhaps if clones were rooted on 24/0 then put out in mid June just before days are shortening?? Granted would be smaller without the veg time...but were comparing to AF strains so maybe not a huge diff??

now your only talking about ~70 days exposure total...and they are smaller so detection is tougher...am I missing something obvious??

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I hash things out...
Thanks again for the informative and fun reading!
Lex

 

[Julian]

.
Julian: I would like to do an outdoor by the end of this season to get a feel for them but just dont see it . Too many obligations that I gave my word that I would help on, you know how that goes. I can get close with the lights. Get a few packs, let them grow untill showing sex,then hopefully I can pick out the autos a little in advance, to start the CS on the next packs. I hate all of this go here go there always in a hurry. Always pressed for time.

I'm pretty much in same boat.....wanted to do it outside (no veg center remaining, closed down for year), treat them outside (yield also), but, probably not going to happen...too pressed and so little time left (week and a half roughly....)....so....also wanted to get my other projects down (Fem BOG SB and the Pink/Lemon) but.....now?, definitely not...needed the yield (still have a large seed patch somewhere, same things, but, will be all M/F, so....)

Really fucked me up actually as have deadlines for stock/needs, but, outdoor would have entailed someone treating them (on schedule), and, with problems this year, not going to risk remaining stock I have to do it with (ie: Do last that exist and lose them for any number of reasons.....or they don't get treated and fem project unsuccessful, etc....)

I do it myself I know it gets done....on time, on schedule...done right....

Im thinking,bust it for 70 days and only exposed for 30 of that, could it get any simpler ??

And safer?

Yeah.....2"?........4"?......6"?.......8"?.......pffffttt.......could have 5 acres worth and no one going to see shit until last 30 days...(I was walking some farms not too far back (earlier this year).....I took note .....

Actually......was also talking to someone about regional research....who does what,where, when, and maybe moving planting back a little bit, so as to coincide early on with others in the region.....ie: If no one is planting till June, and you have a lush crop of starts in May...people might start wondering what your doing, etc......so.....have discussed altering the start dates depending on final site and regional activity, etc...(So all starts same speed as those around you, etc.....) Just some thoughts discussed...For me?....earlier the better (cause sooner it's wrapped up)

30 days not long......but, when your sitting on something like that?......feels like a year sometimes ...

Thanks for the great read Julian. I'm enjoying it very much...and learning lots!!

Glad I could help, and, Thank You......kind of you to say....

I've been out of the scene for a couple years now...for good reasons.
Got lots of indoor experience...mostly big hydro trees...but am complete green pea doing outdoors. My intentions are to change that in a major fashion next summer.

Lot of people would say indoor and out completely different animals (and, they are to a degree), but, having experience with the entire process, a "feel".....you know.....always puts one ahead.....After all.....carries same basics...(light, temps, nutes, water, etc)...just with the nuances the outdoors brings, so....

I've ordered up 10 TFD fem mix with the intention of establishing moms. I'll be doing a small indoor show until early next year when I will be setting up for a big outdoor extravaganza. I've got lots to learn between now and then to pull it off proper so I hope you don't mind if I drop a few questions your way...

If these are subjects that have already been answered I apologize...perhaps a shove in the right direction??

How many mums do you think it will take to produce ~1K healthy soft tissue cuttings for three consecutive months starting in May?

I'm thinking a minimum of 20 healthy mothers....probably hydro for the fast recovery growth...
perhaps a waterfarm type setup??

What is your method of cloning?

I know...there are a millions cloning threads out there...but I...like many others...have had our problems...otherwise they wouldn't be there LOL. With these type numbers its even more daunting.

You seem to prefer using the fem seed...but I'm sure you have had struck plenty of cuttings in your day....any secrets to efficiently producing the BIG lots with high strike rate??

Well, already covered, but, I basically can get up to 200 more or less per 4 x 4 foot...(but that is completely cutting it down into nothing, and, strain dependent to a degree of course....but, that is what I am for and my target.....if I had more on hand, might do them sooner according to schedule (if I can meet desired numbers if smaller), or, might do them longer if some time, and some room, etc....For me, each and every time a little different in some ways.....

Cloning fem seed:
Okay, here's my issue(s)....

1. I never have........have been concerned with stability, etc....

Now, some will say, nah, you can clone fems, everything will be fine.....

Well , see, the problem is......is that while I haven't had significant problems running fem beans, I haven't always had 100% rates.....

For example: Hit a plot recently, bout 100 plants at that patch/spot/location....etc.....all fems?....well, pulled 3 males/hermies.....

Now......3?...out of 100 more or less?.....certainly nothing I would bitch about...(sometimes none per hundred.....)

If no one knows where that is leading...well, what if I would have used one of those 3 to shave em down....

600 holes..........600 prepped ($),.......600 planted.........for nothing...

I'm not willing to take that risk......at all.......couple?....20?....50?........even 100?.....maybe.....600?....1,000?....No.........not going to expose myself that much.....(another reason why I like seed.....variation ensures slightly different characteristics, etc..........so...jmo...just my stance.......Could run 10 fems, get 2,000, and not lose a single one, but, as above....I have seen my share of issues, and, that is always what I think when pulling them....ie" What if I would have used this one as a mom"...

Autoflowering seems to be a big issue outdoors....totally new concept to me...what do you mean the sun has no timer?? LOL

AF's........anytime, anywhere......I'm by no means an AF pro...have been waiting to run them though...waiting for some quality.....and, now satisfied that I will be satisfied, so, going ahead on them....

The general concensus seems to be that mothers of clones destined for outdoors should be kept on a 15/9 or 16/8 light schedule...same for rooting clones going outside...

I know you've said you use 24/0 with no issues with your seed starts...
Is that true for your clones also??

I have used 24/0 for many years......with very few problems..(sometimes...)..year before last..(not this season, not last season, the season before), I ran almost 100% clones..(some seed, but, can't remember what, how many...but, was not a large(r)...clones were the majority.....none triggered, everything fine..

Another reason why I like to run many different things......and fair amouns of all.....one, couple trigger?, well, good, I have an early bonus, some green ($), and some ps...but not going to be the majority, etc...(as was last year with Marocs and PP's....)...was a welcome and pleasant surprise for the most part.....(just wish I would have run more maroc cause didn't know would be so nice....)

Story of that season somewhere earlier in thread I am sure....(last minute for stock, orders seized, left with moms destined for indoor project(s), changed plans, delayed the in's, shaved em down, etc...

I really like your idea about the early runs...get it out in mid/late Aug....is there any way that can this be done with regular (nonAF) strain?? Perhaps if clones were rooted on 24/0 then put out in mid June just before days are shortening?? Granted would be smaller without the veg time...but were comparing to AF strains so maybe not a huge diff??

Ya lost me with what I assume a typo....you mean late runs?......Earlier planted, more veg time..later planted, less....more veg time equals larger plant, less veg time equals smaller plant....

now your only talking about ~70 days exposure total...and they are smaller so detection is tougher...am I missing something obvious??

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I hash things out...
Thanks again for the informative and fun reading!
Lex

Actually, it is my stance 30 days exposure, as early veg, outdoors, almost impossible to detect unless very close.....

Your welcome. Glad of interest and of use.

 

[hamstring]

Julian
Great thread I have followed it off and on it amazing how you manage to keep up with it.

I keep trying to hone my techniques to do that big grow in the sky one day. I think all outdoor growers fantasize about it once in a while.

Ok down to business which seems is how you tend to handle everything. My biggest grow weight wise has been right around 10 lbs. I feel I can handle a 20lb grow by myself in my area with out expanding geographically a whole lot.

This may seem rudimentary in nature but I run this through my head all the time. In the past I have kept a price of around $30 for 1/4oz or $1920/lb(not that I sell by the 1/4 oz of course not but I like looking at it from a consumer perspective). It seems to open doors people in general still look down on outdoor weed, maybe just my experience.

I am not sure I want to or can handle a bigger grow so what if I started looking for $40 per 1/4 oz instead. When you do the math you are looking at $51,200 vs. $38,400 at 20lbs.

Don't expect you to tell me what I can get for an LB because I know it differs from area to area but is my train of thought correct?

Want to fly under the radar and I am trying to honest with myself. I don’t think I can expect to handle anything outdoors over 20lbs alone and not sure I want to.
I would rather not be selling and growing at the same time would love to get rid of what ever the weight is before next spring arrives.

If you were a one-man opp how would you handle the dilemma? Look to improve your go to market price or expand the opp. The old risk vs. reward factor.

PEACE

 

[Lex Dysic]

Thanks for the reply Julian...

"out in August" == pulled in August...harvested...sorry for the confusion...

So the girls you had that were ready in August last year were not AFs??
just ripened early??

Excellent point about cloning the fem seeds....I will be taking clones throughout the winter off these moms...so hopefully any hermie tendencies can be discovered early and culled prior to next spring.

Do you think one can safely assume that no herms indoors == no herms outdoors??

Thats alot of mother space....4'x4'x20....damn near my entire two+ car garage!!
LOL

I got rid of my last growhouse couple years ago...sounds like if I want to sack up for real on an BIG outdoor show I'll need another one...I guess there are some plus sides to the shitty RE market.

Three weeks left you say??
mmmmmm....I've got three little NLxBB seedlings I think I'm going to throw out to see how they fare....quick and dirty along my back fence line...maybe I'll pull some cuts if they look worthy.

Back to the fem seeds thing....I've got to do a lot more reading on these...I'm understand the basic process...but the hermy thing is troubling.

TFD has always had a sterling rep for producing good product...I'm hoping they are maintaining their standards on their fem seed as well...I guess I'll find out.

Another big factor in OD vs ID is the moon...Do you pay attention to the cycles and try to do your planting accordingly?? Am I understanding correctly that about a week before the full moon is best time for planting??
Have you seen the moon phases make obvious differences in your results??

Thanks much!
Lex

Here's a pic of one of my last runs of spacequeen....fun stuff

 

[Lex Dysic]

PS....anyone every try one of these for mosquito issues??

http://www.workinggear.com/gc/catal...quito-Netting-5833-cat627.html?ROITrakid=8461

tucked into your shirt...long sleeves...long pants....duh....
then spray down clothing...not skin...with DEET

I've used this method and it works fairly well....never tried to dig 1K holes dressed like that though...

I don't think the electronic gizmos work very well....but I guess its possible...

 

[Julian]

Julian
Great thread I have followed it off and on it amazing how you manage to keep up with it.

Thanks man.....I don't know about keeping up with it....but...I try...

I keep trying to hone my techniques to do that big grow in the sky one day. I think all outdoor growers fantasize about it once in a while.

Well.....lot of people tend to look at such in many ways (bigger, big, even bigger), but, if something one does....something one does well...something one loves to do?.....Well, who doesn't want to take such things a step further sometimes....Any industry...any field...etc....ya know..

You know....not that unrealistic for most.....as it's a long term activity and objective, so...while one might not be in the position to do more, or something special today, well, chances are will be growing 20yrs from now, so....

Ok down to business which seems is how you tend to handle everything. My biggest grow weight wise has been right around 10 lbs. I feel I can handle a 20lb grow by myself in my area with out expanding geographically a whole lot.

Well, also, as above, elsewhere, etc...if we all stay more focused as far as efficiency, etc.....might even be possible to double yield while not doubling workload...Stay always thinking, seeing process...what can be done to simplify, etc....

If I had to do everything myself tomorrow....not sure off the top of my head how and what I would do...would have to sit and think for a while about what would be max yield with least amount of work...ie: If target was 20.....50...100, etc...(depends on spots...might split it between early and late to break up workload and give some time to rest......spread out prep and holes (couple different rounds, etc...)

Sorry man, you got me thinking ....

This may seem rudimentary in nature but I run this through my head all the time. In the past I have kept a price of around $30 for 1/4oz or $1920/lb(not that I sell by the 1/4 oz of course not but I like looking at it from a consumer perspective). It seems to open doors people in general still look down on outdoor weed, maybe just my experience.

I am not sure I want to or can handle a bigger grow so what if I started looking for $40 per 1/4 oz instead. When you do the math you are looking at $51,200 vs. $38,400 at 20lbs.

Don't expect you to tell me what I can get for an LB because I know it differs from area to area but is my train of thought correct?

Want to fly under the radar and I am trying to honest with myself. I don’t think I can expect to handle anything outdoors over 20lbs alone and not sure I want to.

I would rather not be selling and growing at the same time would love to get rid of what ever the weight is before next spring arrives.

If you were a one-man opp how would you handle the dilemma? Look to improve your go to market price or expand the opp. The old risk vs. reward factor.

PEACE

Well......of course things vary from region to region, but, to give some examples?.....

1. Can focus on the dry, clip and cure to boost bottom line/quality (if possible, maybe your already doing best you can).....

For me?....when I take care of people very important, and very close to me for ps?....Fuck man, I do 200 z, and, no one blinks an eye (because they can turn around and sell it for 3-350 if they wanted to, so.....30 q, at least for me sounds way, way too low unless living in a region which is overrun with hardcore....(for cheap)...

There's a fine line I think to what is "fair" and what is unreasonable......

I sell something, for, say.....3-32-35, etc, but, if even available, would run someone 4-45+, etc...

I tend top stick pretty firm on prices, because I know in the end, it's getting busted down for quite a bit....

Another point of reference if talking small: I have started to hear of things in the 200 a quarter range lately.....(no better than any of mine.......so.....)

Then we get into things discussed earlier, such as supply and demand basics......ie: get a good cure on it, seal it up in certain size packages, and work it for the entire year...(As above/elsewhere...knew some who would do that.....good crop, seal it up, then sit on it and just do small things for long time, max their value.......)

While smaller stuff can be more risky......if limited, small....your only selling to smaller group of established people to begin with, so...in that sense...I think more risk comes from greater traffic and volume.....

You said before next spring arrives.....so...20......6 months....3 a month, etc....

Could also do what you might typically do with the 10.......and consider the other 10 an immediate bonus (if you usually do 10 from harvest to spring small.....have the other 10 onhand to dump to people who asked before and you could never take care of.....)

30 q/120 z.......very low for hardcore....
40q/160 z.........very low for hardcore.....

As above man........those closest to me pay 200...(well, depends.....sometimes less ), but, their alternative?.......something similar for 200 a quarter....

As above though...you can work on raising your end (within reason), and/or add to volume, etc....I'd try and do both (I have....)

You know man.....in the end...all about what's worth it to you.....what can you do, etc....but.....38k for 20 of hardcore? (assuming good clip and cure and astounding bud?.......fuck man....I could dump all 20 right now for 60 .....so.....don't undercut yourself......

(But, that would be unwise anyway, and then I'd have not even ps left for months , so, nah, would be better off sitting on it...have ps, stretch it out a little....20 for 6 months?....would be wise to stretch it out....

Thanks for the reply Julian...
"out in August" == pulled in August...harvested...sorry for the confusion...

So the girls you had that were ready in August last year were not AFs??
just ripened early??

Well, they do come in early/are early to start with, but, mine seemed to come in earlier than expected, so, assumed I triggered them with the 24/0 to out, but, still unsure....Will run them again with that possibility in mind (try and get them out first, larger, etc....)

Excellent point about cloning the fem seeds....I will be taking clones throughout the winter off these moms...so hopefully any hermie tendencies can be discovered early and culled prior to next spring.

Do you think one can safely assume that no herms indoors == no herms outdoors??

That was just personal position and how I think......someone might say they have do thousands without a problem....but, again, with all the extra issues.....I get a little anal sometimes about stuff.....

Thats alot of mother space....4'x4'x20....damn near my entire two+ car garage!!
LOL

Well, if your target is 1,000....that would only be 5 plants more or less.....

As above and earlier, can vary it endless ways (could put out 100 and aim for 10 clones from each in other rounds....quickest ones get out 2nd round...everything remaining out following round, etc.....)

All above and elsewhere....

I got rid of my last growhouse couple years ago...sounds like if I want to sack up for real on an BIG outdoor show I'll need another one...I guess there are some plus sides to the shitty RE market.

Three weeks left you say??
mmmmmm....I've got three little NLxBB seedlings I think I'm going to throw out to see how they fare....quick and dirty along my back fence line...maybe I'll pull some cuts if they look worthy.

My deadline is about 11 days.....actually hope can do it sooner....3rd week July I prefer....but can go another week if I have things almost ready, etc, but, strain dependent also.......plus this has not been a good season regarding weather for the most part, so.....uncertainty how it will end..(longer, shorter, colder, wetter, etc....)

Back to the fem seeds thing....I've got to do a lot more reading on these...I'm understand the basic process...but the hermy thing is troubling.

Well, as stated...I have had minimal problems overall (from seed)....couple here and there occasionally have to be pulled...just the cloning and volume issue which concerns me personally...

TFD has always had a sterling rep for producing good product...I'm hoping they are maintaining their standards on their fem seed as well...I guess I'll find out.

Another big factor in OD vs ID is the moon...Do you pay attention to the cycles and try to do your planting accordingly?? Am I understanding correctly that about a week before the full moon is best time for planting??
Have you seen the moon phases make obvious differences in your results??

My schedules are geared more towards weather, size (how established, when I can, etc)....(Of course aware of the above....just don't do it....I have a hard enough time with what,when,where,how I can get things done.....when they have to go out, they go (size, weather, etc)....

If I had kept/keep detailed notes and such on each and every one in regard to all cycles and dates.....it very well might come in with some beneficial hard data, but, again.....I don't have the luxury sometimes of such...

 

[hamstring]

First off thanks for the help, I love this statement because of course its true. I love growing and it’s not been the money for me obviously.

Well.....lot of people tend to look at such in many ways (bigger, big, even bigger), but, if something one does....something one does well...something one loves to do?.....Well, who doesn't want to take such things a step further sometimes....Any industry...any field...etc....ya know..

The prices I see almost all the time are $80 for a 1/4 but I think I will be patient and put more work into a good trim/cure. I will admit by the time I get through the season and harvest I am mentally burnt out and the last thing on my mind is good-looking weed but it makes sense.

1. Can focus on the dry, clip and cure to boost bottom line/quality (if possible, maybe your already doing best you can).....

For me?....when I take care of people very important, and very close to me for ps?....Fuck man, I do 200 z, and, no one blinks an eye (because they can turn around and sell it for 3-350 if they wanted to, so.....30 q, at least for me sounds way, way too low unless living in a region which is overrun with hardcore....(for cheap)...

There's a fine line I think to what is "fair" and what is unreasonable......

I sell something, for, say.....3-32-35, etc, but, if even available, would run someone 4-45+, etc...

I tend top stick pretty firm on prices, because I know in the end, it's getting busted down for quite a bit....

Another point of reference if talking small: I have started to hear of things in the 200 a quarter range lately.....(no better than any of mine.......so.....)

Then we get into things discussed earlier, such as supply and demand basics......ie: get a good cure on it, seal it up in certain size packages, and work it for the entire year...(As above/elsewhere...knew some who would do that.....good crop, seal it up, then sit on it and just do small things for long time, max their value.......)

While smaller stuff can be more risky......if limited, small....your only selling to smaller group of established people to begin with, so...in that sense...I think more risk comes from greater traffic and volume.....

You said before next spring arrives.....so...20......6 months....3 a month, etc....

Could also do what you might typically do with the 10.......and consider the other 10 an immediate bonus (if you usually do 10 from harvest to spring small.....have the other 10 onhand to dump to people who asked before and you could never take care of.....)

30 q/120 z.......very low for hardcore....
40q/160 z.........very low for hardcore.....

As above man........those closest to me pay 200...(well, depends.....sometimes less ), but, their alternative?.......something similar for 200 a quarter....

As above though...you can work on raising your end (within reason), and/or add to volume, etc....I'd try and do both (I have....)

You know man.....in the end...all about what's worth it to you.....what can you do, etc....but.....38k for 20 of hardcore? (assuming good clip and cure and astounding bud?.......fuck man....I could dump all 20 right now for 60 .....so.....don't undercut yourself......

(

 

[Julian]

First off thanks for the help, I love this statement because of course its true. I love growing and it’s not been the money for me obviously.

No problem man....lost my train of thought at some point so not sure I addressed adequately.....

It is true.....

I've known a lot of people, and, as discussed earlier, about people either "getting it/taking to it" or not....it's my position from what I have seen is the people who do try it for money only are usually the ones who don't do well and have no longevity.....(major non U.S farms aside....completely different animal to a degree......)

(Because if they really loved to....well, they would still be doing it regardless ...but, they're not.. ...)

Money is nice (reward and compensation for labor, expenses, risk, etc)...since when that is unacceptable, is beyond me.....I personally like to eat, have a roof over my head, take care of my family and not be homeless and give others everything I have for free ...

The prices I see almost all the time are $80 for a 1/4 but I think I will be patient and put more work into a good trim/cure. I will admit by the time I get through the season and harvest I am mentally burnt out and the last thing on my mind is good-looking weed but it makes sense.

Well, there ya go man....your 60%+/- under market......could still go 45-50 and still be a deal for most...

Not to mention, as above......if such quality is available anyway...(my regions......your lucky to find the hardcore...when you do?...Not a lot, and, prices always unreasonable.......As above...I just started hearing 200 a quarter..... Personally?...matter of principle..I don't care if I have 100k in my pocket...not going to do it....no fuckin way..Just the point..(and, frankly, fr4om a security standpoint...guess who the first ones to go are if people get pushed into a corner Not going to be the one(s) doing the same thing for 75% less (200 a z , long term supply, etc)......

You charge too much, you create resentment.......shouldn't be done......there's a happy medium in there for everyone to make money...be satisfied.....(plus, when your in need, favor gets returned, etc.....)

Yeah, if 80 market and what is common (when it's around in the first place)........45-50 seems more than reasonable....especially if same, similar quality and a cure on it..(I got something small this week...a gift from someone.....just a little ps to roll a couple, like an 8th, got it for free from one of my guys......but, still had to leave it out to dry it up a little, good enough to roll (I only roll......nothing else.....)

People also have to remember responses of market........introduce something..might be in between other people having things, etc, so, you wait to next round and everyone comes back, etc..(sometimes if people can't get rid of something immediately they cut it down a little cause they think makes a difference....really, only issue is holding off a week till everyone needs something again, etc, and, once they get a taste, value is again created, so...(instead of dropping as time goes.......value actually rises, especially if it's preferred......)

Usually my end stuff goes for evern more (also is nicer, longer cure....)

Now....the other thing (about being worn down end of season, which, please, I know the feeling man , is you can work it in steps also......ie: dry, clip......then pack it (cure), then, when you have another burst of energy, go back over it for the close trim, etc (all goes back to efficiency and time management, etc....)

Said above...one of my recent guys, leaves it all bagged (hefties), and trims when he gets a chance (keeps an eye and airs it when necessary, turns it, etc...), and, he always has some of the nicest out of everyone (all of us....) He's usually still sitting on hefties and trimming in March Still a little moisture...very nice stuff sometimes..(but, sometimes not....you do stuff like that you have to keep an eye on it ...)

If pulling in a little more can grab a machine...can get someone to help trimming (my favorite thing is to just give people xx (oz or % per hour depending on their performance and speed.....I time them out the first round/session, etc, and then calculate from there, so, still reasonable for me, and, comes out well for them....and, as above...I always do a lot of the larger, solid stuff myself...just cause I do pretty well, fairly good rates of speed, etc.....but, trimming sometimes touch and go...I've seen people pick it right up and do as clean and close as me, and then others even after a week they still don't get it, and you have to go over it again....

I sometimes also go over things myself again, especially if looking for seed (which I will be doing this year on a couple things....so...dried, trimmed, cure, then, when a minute, before it's going to go, dump all out and start looking through for seed and clipping anything I see that is sloppy of should be close.....You know......for us?......the value of seed is incalculable...I was talking with someone this week about that ......(telling people they find any seeds bring them back and we'll pay them for em ) But, the stuff I go over, good luck finding a single one We deal sometimes though with some pretty fuckin obnoxious people

I had a guy once complain about something being "seedy"......think he pulled out like, 40 out of 5lbs ...(All shake goes to bubble, or given away for ps, so.....shake never an issue.......)

 

[Fast_Pine]

(I only roll......nothing else.....)

)

Why is that J?....i personaly prefer water pipes (bubblers and bongs, ect)...U ever had a large toke off a 2foot glass on glass bong, with Ice in the chamber......Smooooooth as hell...

Are you doin blunts ever?...

 

[Julian]

Why is that J?....i personaly prefer water pipes (bubblers and bongs, ect)...U ever had a large toke off a 2foot glass on glass bong, with Ice in the chamber......Smooooooth as hell...

Are you doin blunts ever?...

I don't know really...of course I have in every way, shape and form (and I do keep some glass for hash, although, again, most of the time I just sprikle the bubble when I roll)....I don't like having any of that stuff on hand...

Pack of papers.....and one small glass stahsed away...suits me fine...rolling does also...I just twist a couple, keep em in my smokes..(and people wonder why I smoke so much ...occasionally, someone will asl me for a smoke and I will forget they're in there (and half burnt)......hasn't been a problem yet

I'm noit a heavy, heavy smoker these days.....roll one early.....hit it here and there....then put in smokes....twist some for the rest of the day, etc.....how it always works out...(when I lot to do I don't at all, so......sometimes a lot, sometimes not, but, even when a lot, I still roll a bunch, keep em in my smokes....

Today?....lighting right now the same one I have had with me all day....so....(Didn't really see anyone or hang out, etc...work, some errands, etc, etc......go out later? ...might roll 4-5 or so....or maybe won't go out or roll any....you know....)

Depends what I am doing also......who I am seeing...if business...I don't at all, because people (who don't smoke anything, etc) can smell it..(we forget )...

Depends...one of my guys has a box and does one hits....so....another does blunts, etc....so....I do whatever whenever, but, for me?.....eh, I just like em rolled.....something about the taste ..(all different taste, and even high, ya know?.....never really liked bowl taste and high the best....just personal preference.....I roll, gets me taste and high I want....(although I like blunts......when I have them, etc.......kind of funny because everyone I know prefers something different, but, no one ever complains though when I roll one

 

[oohcow]

hey julian,

Do you use time release ferts in your dry mix AND top feed? or do you use fast acting as topfeed?

btw, i just magically can roll "decent" joints now (not like your pro ones tho lol) but I have to say I used to be a blunt smoker but now i kinda like joints alot hahaha the taste is awesome i really like it! but im getting a bong soon so we'll see how it goes!

 

[Julian]

hey julian,
Do you use time release ferts in your dry mix AND top feed? or do you use fast acting as topfeed?

I was just talking about this with someone.........

Actually, yeah, both are combinations, and, certain times, I hit them with liquid also (which this year so far is FN/Cal Mag for veg.....flower might be FN, Foralicious,KaBloom....(I have onhand but last minute might switch to something else.....)

I mix all in prep, then water with liquid, then, do my top feeds (worked into soil whenever possible...) then, when I stop, I do liquid (minor amounts....most only get hit once or twice max a year because I hit different plots....), then, right about now (within next couple weeks more or less), I hit them with a top, and water with the above.....

Was talking with someone about certain conditions and nutes and size of fans.... Of course....... those fans would be pretty large... Not sure how I feel..I always think they look too small early in year (those pics from past weekend, mid July, so....)

(That's the BOG SB....fans textbook for it ime )

btw, i just magically can roll "decent" joints now (not like your pro ones tho lol) but I have to say I used to be a blunt smoker but now i kinda like joints alot hahaha the taste is awesome i really like it! but im getting a bong soon so we'll see how it goes!

Ya like that one? Yeah... Almost always a g even...could roll 500, all exactly the same.....I like em....I did a lot of graphics when young.....(again, specific people and specific things, etc ...never thought about that actually (how everyone has their own thing....)

Joints fit me well...preferences, lifestyle, cause, said somewhere else....I prefer also set everyone up, smoke my own..(I haven't had a joint run on me in 20 years, so........and kinda tired of teaching people how to smoke........was smoking something not too long ago with couple people (bird with bubble sprinkled through it)......they're smoking like a cigar and I'm telling em the hit they just let go is the one they should have kept .....(I got peeves about that stuff.......wet...making it run....or, my favorite.....someone sitting there holding it with a lighter under it

That's not how you light a joint......

 

[Saibai]

Its harder for me to smoke joints now that I quit cigarettes. Neighbours will think its strange to see me smoking something outside...I wish I could just yell "Its OK, its not tobacco, its weeeeeed!". heh.

I always roll cone-shaped ones with filters or at least a crutch/roach.

Julian: You think thats bad...I was sharing a joint with someone that I never smoke with...and about 2/3 of the way down, he just throws it in the drain in the gutter...without asking me a thing...I was literally shocked, stood there not believing what I had just seen...needless to say that was the last time I pass a joint to that guy. He must have thought it was "finished"...

Afterwards he complained that it was too strong and he had to go lie down...lol

 

[Julian]

Its harder for me to smoke joints now that I quit cigarettes. Neighbours will think its strange to see me smoking something outside...I wish I could just yell "Its OK, its not tobacco, its weeeeeed!". heh.

I gotcha......(what neighbors?, the monkeys? ...I thought you were alone over there ....)

Harder for me also when not smoking cigarettes.....both linked so close......habit, etc....)

Julian: You think thats bad...I was sharing a joint with someone that I never smoke with...and about 2/3 of the way down, he just throws it in the drain in the gutter...without asking me a thing...I was literally shocked, stood there not believing what I had just seen...needless to say that was the last time I pass a joint to that guy. He must have thought it was "finished"...

Afterwards he complained that it was too strong and he had to go lie down...lol

.......

We had one guy once who wanted to be taken to the emergency room.....swore we "put something " in it .......(True story......swear to god....)

Talk about lightweights ....

(And, no, he did not go btw......we got his lightweight ass something to eat and drink and he soon forgot all about that , which is even funnier actually )

I've heard a lot of stories like that actually...from a lot of people, so.....

Have shared my bubble stories before (too high ), and, found myself congratulating someone this week on reaching such .....Had to explain to him that is about right for bubble , and, can now add his stories to the list .....)

(Between a couple of my guys, there are a couple z's still left floating around.....sprinkle it on birds to make it last, etc....so.......still a little around (lucky for me...I've been out for quite a while of everything ......surprise surprise .....)

Working on all things, current and future, and, think future things falling into place, so, might have something on that soon......some fairly solid developments and commitments right around corner on several levels....

Hope all are well..........hope all projects are well, and everything is coming along....still waiting to see how this season ends up and treats us.....

 

[Saibai]

Julian: Well, nearly alone. Being Japan, there's usually someone around. I actually do have a couple of neighbours, but not many, and they're not usually home (long-distance truck driver, etc).

Open my back door and theres mountains, open my front door and its about 50m to the ocean.

The monkeys have been very quiet lately...yeah...too quiet.

edit: speaking of being out, I've been smoking males that I've pulled down...combined with my current lowered tolerance, I actually have no complaints atm.

 

[Guest]

Howdy Julian,

I havent been able to read all pages but many. I have appreciated the read. This is one of the few threads that provide a lot of good basic information for a would be grower.. The new grower should print it out and read it several times. Some of the info is obscure and only until your'e in the situation can you understand the importance of some of it. Its a good primer for those with the notion. Most of the info is adaptable.

I did what you are doing now for years and that's why ive enjoyed the read so much. Takes one to know one.

Retirement has set in. Air cover, illegial immigrant groups of 10 or more working grows or just rumaging through the country side finding others, and outright old age,(mostly) have all taken their toll and sent me to the house. I just try and get 40 plants in the barn now. Something for me to smoke and to pass out to my lazy friends a family.

Like most things in life, success in growing styles such as yours boil down to a few aspects.

Confidence. Yours is what has brought you to this place in time. Believers always acommplish their goals.

Knowing your subject: the plant. 1/2 from books -1/2 from putting the seed in the dirt

Dedication and hard work. Anyone thats ever been successful at anything got there through hard work and i know you work your ass off. I enjoyed it so much that I really didn't consider it work, but it is and very hard.

Intelligence. Thinking about what youre doing and how to do it better and better

Experience. Even now, I learn something each year. Those who fail to recognize the past are doomed to repeat it.

Keep on postin man and ill keep taking pleasure from the read.
Dont be afraid of the femmed clones. A good stable strain and you keeping the variables stable = no problems. Makes life easier.

sb

 

[dazednconfused]

hey Julian,

New here, great thread. You provide lots of insight in commercial growing.

I was interested in doing a mid scale op with those auto flowering ak47s. They finish in 10 weeks, start them late april/very beginning of may indoors. Transplant once sexed 2-3 weeks and then they will have a good solid 7 weeks outdoors. Pretty much grown during optimum vegging time.

Lowlife seeds recommends 5-7 liters of soil...might as well give it 2gals, worth busting your ass with 400+ 2 gal containers to get 1-2 oz per?? An idea would be acquiring maybe an 8" auger to drill holes every 6"-12" spaced in rows over an acre...or two lol...

Start them off in 16 oz cups, cut the bottoms off and place in hole....not bad? Destroy the males later if not presex the plants before hand. By harvesting the 1st or 2nd week of july you are substantially reducing your exposure risk from l.e.o.

Was wondering what your opinion was on this?