MASSIVE OUTDOOR GROW

[Julian]

Several other aspects and angles on topic of note:

Most scenarios mentioned above may very well not even have such things as dba's, business accounts in place...(which again only contributes to overall picture in a positive way....)

One could also, as above or other thread, speak to accountant to ask best direction, etc....everything mentioned readily verifiable....no receipts and such will basically put you in the position of being unable to utilize your deductions....(which you should not claim excessive anyway.......) Most problems will arise from excessive deductions....

(But, yet again, apples and oranges...one addressing IRS attention and audit, the other angle all numbers being appropriate if an interest by LE......2 different things.....The above case concern lay in tax evasion also...again, not what we are discussing......all banking should match all declared, all declared should match banking.....and all should be paid (tax).....If your not declaring it, it shouldn't be banked, nor should it be spent (problem people have) on items that are readily identified, such as vehicles, homes..(ie: you declare 50, you bank 50k, your bills are 50k, but, you bought a new car, boat, and bike for 150k.........another good example....many do such things daily .....

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to look over financials and see irregularities.....if you can see it, they can see it ....(I'm not a forensic accountant but would go up against one any day of the week reviewing financials......It's quite simple actually....all pieces have to fit, all trails lead somewhere........(hence the above examples of using "extra" money on improvements not requiring permits as one such idea for one.....)

Quick story (true).....(I edited...forget it )

 

[Julian]

The hotdog stand would require a fair bit of paperwork for setup, small bit for maintenance (consumables purchased, etc...). But the question was specifically related to customer info, which in this case would be nonexistant. Besides, I have the munchies so was thinking about food.

Agreed, and, good example, but, I think that one would leave a trail of paperwork regarding all involved (especially your inventory and turnover......although you could work it pretty well if you grilled a lot (at home, groceries, etc ...same as bar...)

Thanks for putting it that way, regarding no inventory service businesses. Something just clicked in my head. Figuring out one of them jiggsaws in planning... Sometimes I think I need to get my brain rewired at Radioshack (You've got questions, we've got blank stares!)

Well, you also want service and no inventory due to sales tax (state) issues.....(just more documentation and work for one to do....) I like service business's best, that reason among them....

People underestimate many things.......(including potential success of very small things.....) All I have listed above, in this and other thread (people I know, people I use), they are doing fairly well for what and who they are....(My dogwalker guy up to probably 30 employees.....Tech guys make 1k a week easy......contractors?...well....nuff said......People shouldn't underestimate the "upside".......and, likewise........people should always steer away from making growing their primary occupation for a hundred other reasons.....It's gravy......that could end at any time....and, what are you going to do then?....

You use the money to further yourself in every way.....create more potential directions......etc......can contribute to you professionally.... education.... property.......whatever one is into....

Jmo of course......

 

[Julian]

You know, some other points, going back to original is one has to alter the way they see the world, and, the way the see money.....

What can be accomplished from as little as 100k is truly astounding if one has a little knowledge, desire, discipline.....(Now, most will say "100k, ****....might as well be 1MM..."....Well, as before...call it 30 p's....nothing that someone with a 6k can't save up within 12 months , or that a little effort can't do in a single outdoor season....Out?, call it 1/4 a plant, your at 120 plants.....I know for a fact , there are many who do much more.......

Problem seems to arise from someone having a specific direction......You don't?...then you stand still...(most go out and spend......)

Lot of people aren't working, which they know I frown upon...(big different between working and paying bills and all that being gravy, etc......if no other income sources, very easy to kill that 100......very easy.....

All about always thinking forward.......moving forward.......towards something.....Lot of people, the issue is patience...sitting still, not spending, being patient while deciding direction.......I know it's hard, been there.....but, the objective is what it's all about ("means to an end"....)

The less bright a future one has (lack of any education, solid well paying profession, etc) the more important it becomes...(to plan and proceed in the most efficient and wise manner, and, utilize all funds for the greatest gain....greatest benefit to your future....)

(One of the reasons I think all should approach growing as secondary....big difference between making 100k a yr from growing, and, making 150k a yr from working and growing, and possible another's (gf/wife) income.......invest and spend wisely, etc....no reason in this day and age one cannot turn a "little extra money" into something extremely significant....(long term)...

Anyway...lost train of thought.....turning into one of those days, but, sure a point was there somewhere

 

[Kaneh-Bosm]

You know, some other points, going back to original is one has to alter the way they see the world, and, the way the see money.....

What can be accomplished from as little as 100k is truly astounding if one has a little knowledge, desire, discipline.....(Now, most will say "100k, ****....might as well be 1MM..."....Well, as before...call it 30 p's....nothing that someone with a 6k can't save up within 12 months , or that a little effort can't do in a single outdoor season....Out?, call it 1/4 a plant, your at 120 plants.....I know for a fact , there are many who do much more.......

Problem seems to arise from someone having a specific direction......You don't?...then you stand still...(most go out and spend......)

Lot of people aren't working, which they know I frown upon...(big different between working and paying bills and all that being gravy, etc......if no other income sources, very easy to kill that 100......very easy.....

All about always thinking forward.......moving forward.......towards something.....Lot of people, the issue is patience...sitting still, not spending, being patient while deciding direction.......I know it's hard, been there.....but, the objective is what it's all about ("means to an end"....)

The less bright a future one has (lack of any education, solid well paying profession, etc) the more important it becomes...(to plan and proceed in the most efficient and wise manner, and, utilize all funds for the greatest gain....greatest benefit to your future....)

(One of the reasons I think all should approach growing as secondary....big difference between making 100k a yr from growing, and, making 150k a yr from working and growing, and possible another's (gf/wife) income.......invest and spend wisely, etc....no reason in this day and age one cannot turn a "little extra money" into something extremely significant....(long term)...

Anyway...lost train of thought.....turning into one of those days, but, sure a point was there somewhere

Reading thru this thread and that bust, strangly enough, has motivated me!! I missed the links in the first post the first time thru but now I have began looking for potential spots and planning my start!! Next year I will be a good year!!

 

[Julian]

Now's the time (or earlier) to start planning, accumulating, spots, etc........too many people wait until last minute.....More planning done now, the easier it is to change minor details and direction later if necessary or desired......(not uncommon to change many things during the course.....many do...I do, about many things....strains, locations, methods, etc, but, the general overview is already established far in advance...)

Edit: You know, regarding the above questions....sorry I wasn't more specific, but, my own comments fairly abundant and detailed earlier, and, also, a lot depends on you, and what you want to do (veg time for mothers, when to start mothers, how tall and how many per mom, etc...all up to you, your space, the lead time you can do, etc....)

Could start them as early as Jan 1st, could start them end of Feb, beginning or March, etc, also depends on your projected out times, etc.....ie: Establish your initial out date and work back from that date to establish starting and cloning dates, etc......If going from seed and sexing, that might be altered also, if fem seeds, might be altered again, and, depending when you want them out, and how much veg time prior, might also change dates yet again, so......all up to you and your situation...(My earliest rounds up to 4 weeks veg, mid 2 weeks, later, less than a week, and, I do about 60 days veg for mothers, which gets me about 200+/- per mom, with about 2 weeks on the kids.....)

Lot of variables....

 

[NPK]

Security Cameras...........for what????

To give you 30 seconds to do what you should have addressed previously and now it's too late?....If they're there, they're there.....too late, your down.

Yep, agreed. It was just a light bulb moment when I read that those cameras are considered a specific red flag to law enforcement that some illegal activity might be taking place. Probably also of interest to thieves who might otherwise not have looked twice at your place but now wonder, A camera, eh? What are they guarding?

Nowhere would I recommend a detailer, dog walker, self employed tech, contractor, etc, declaring 300k+ of "extra" money......your already 2 more steps down the line at such amounts..(ie: far from the "small business/self employed" scenarios discussed....whole different level, method and approach ) Point of earlier discussions was for average person, how one can start....

Oh, absolutely: the guy was clearly beyond the small business scenarios discussed here and elsewhere. I'm sure a lot of the folks interested in this thread are at the initial stages, or wondering how to get into the initial stages. Which brings me to.......

Lot of people aren't working, which they know I frown upon...

See, here's my quandary around the whole working (for someone else), career change, start a small business thing. Deep breath here.....

In another life, I was a well-paid, not-really-technical white collar guy in the high-tech industry. Basically, my job was to churn files. It was mind-numbing and soul-killing. Yeah, the six figures were nice, but that's not really all that much scratch in my area. My salary made for a fairly modest middle-class lifestyle and some retirement savings. Mostly, I was just working to subsist--and I'm a frugal bastard with no debt other than my mortgage. I don't have a lot of fancy crap and have been driving the same car since the early '90s.

Anyway, my old gig got to be unbearable. After 15 years of it, I wanted to string a noose around my neck. So when my last contract ended I simply stopped doing what I used to do. And now the idea of sitting in commute traffic for an hour, then sitting in a cloth box (often even SHARING the damned thing) from 9 to 5:30, and then spending another ninety minutes sitting in commute traffic is now unacceptable to me. I don't exaggerate when I say, the thought of that fills me with deep despair. I'm motivated at least as much by freedom, of being completely self-sufficient, as by financial factors.

Well, to get to the point--I do have a long-standing interest in real estate, and think I could make a damned fine real estate agent. There's a surfeit of folks in that line where I live, but their numbers are probably dwindling as a result of the sub-prime meltdown. If nothing else, I would love to have access to the MLS! It seems like just having a RE license could open all kinds of doors. And you've underscored so many ways to put your money to work in a clandestine way in real estate. It just makes sense. Even in the current lending environment, I think my stellar credit (high 700s-low 800s, depending on the agency) could land me a no-doc loan.

Still, it would take some time to grease the wheels in such a career. I'm thinking that, for tax year 2008, I should declare any income I've banked as monies earned consulting at what I used to do. But what about after that? I hesitate to set up a dummy business as a former file-churner, and I know that's not what you really encourage anyway--but I feel like I need to do something like that for tax purposes and for scrubbing purposes until I get my real estate license.

A rather candid account, but there it is. What say you, J? Does this plan sound feasible? I am concerned about holes, and the odds of an audit.

 

[Julian]

Yep, agreed. It was just a light bulb moment when I read that those cameras are considered a specific red flag to law enforcement that some illegal activity might be taking place. Probably also of interest to thieves who might otherwise not have looked twice at your place but now wonder, A camera, eh? What are they guarding?

Well, my point also was, essentially, unless you happen to be watching it at that second......well, what use is it?...(Note: this specific situation, they weren't there most of the time anyway .....so, again...what purpose does it serve?.......) theives? Well, would come in handy, if you were there, if you were armed, if you were watching camera at the second they were there.....

Realistically, they would have been better off with hunting cameras in the tree down the road from entry, checking prior to entering..(like what we do with the out projects......camo'd, covered, up in the trees close to road, and then close enough to plots....)

Oh, absolutely: the guy was clearly beyond the small business scenarios discussed here and elsewhere. I'm sure a lot of the folks interested in this thread are at the initial stages, or wondering how to get into the initial stages. Which brings me to.......

Yeah, all apples and oranges....each specific scenario and stage (income) requires different approach and methods...I think even those in a little deeper (and, there are a couple ) still need a couple ideas here and there ....

See, here's my quandary around the whole working (for someone else), career change, start a small business thing. Deep breath here.....

In another life, I was a well-paid, not-really-technical white collar guy in the high-tech industry. Basically, my job was to churn files. It was mind-numbing and soul-killing. Yeah, the six figures were nice, but that's not really all that much scratch in my area. My salary made for a fairly modest middle-class lifestyle and some retirement savings. Mostly, I was just working to subsist--and I'm a frugal bastard with no debt other than my mortgage. I don't have a lot of fancy crap and have been driving the same car since the early '90s.

That's some ****in car..

Anyway, my old gig got to be unbearable. After 15 years of it, I wanted to string a noose around my neck.

Hmmmm.........I'm at about that myself....(15)....I prefer loaded gun in desk instead of noose ....Been crossing my mind more often lately something has to change...very tired, very burned out.....lately contemplating making some changes, and, that I might be much happier slowing down, reworking expenses needed....change of lifestyle......(ie: Liquidate...something extremely far out(need my pool though :smoke), bike and a boat .....think I'd be happier.......Not sure in cards though, especially since going to take a long break from the green shortly...(actually, in a discussion now about taking all early rounds, and letting partners take later rounds and I am out and done and gone....

Point being....I understand such.....and, I see that more often actually...(people trading 250k lifestyle for 60k-100k and enjoying life.....granted though...the majority have enough already to be able to make that move and be comfortable...)

Anyway...I hear ya...right there with ya...

So when my last contract ended I simply stopped doing what I used to do. And now the idea of sitting in commute traffic for an hour, then sitting in a cloth box (often even SHARING the damned thing) from 9 to 5:30, and then spending another ninety minutes sitting in commute traffic is now unacceptable to me. I don't exaggerate when I say, the thought of that fills me with deep despair. I'm motivated at least as much by freedom, of being completely self-sufficient, as by financial factors.

Understand 100%....Travel issues don't really apply or bother me, as much as the friggin unbearable, never ending , bone crushing stress....

Well, to get to the point--I do have a long-standing interest in real estate, and think I could make a damned fine real estate agent. There's a surfeit of folks in that line where I live, but their numbers are probably dwindling as a result of the sub-prime meltdown. If nothing else, I would love to have access to the MLS! It seems like just having a RE license could open all kinds of doors. And you've underscored so many ways to put your money to work in a clandestine way in real estate. It just makes sense. Even in the current lending environment, I think my stellar credit (high 700s-low 800s, depending on the agency) could land me a no-doc loan.

Well......an agent or broker as a career is far from what most imagine.....and, things mentioned here actually make more...not to mention independent contractor status, so.....while everything deductible, have to pay quarterlies, and, money can be few and far in between.....I know all the stats from my buddies......5% do 95% of all deals.....50% fail first year......50%+ of the remaining fail and quit the second, so, very tough business, but, it is extremely misunderstood also.....Some get licenses to save on commissions from their projects, but, again, given overall situation, sometimes not a significant savings on that either....ie: 10k savings, but, 1k + to establish ones self, then 500 annual dues, then E&o, then monthly MLS, etc....then many have continuing education to maintain, then renewal, etc, so........something I have thought about since I do a LOT of stuff, but, in the end, I decided against it...My guys give me a break and kick some back, and, that's good enough for me.....

Actually, consumer sites like Realtor.com are essentially all down/uploaded directly from MLS.......so...only difference are search powers (back end MLS is more efficient and more fields) and consumer sites don't seem to recogniza all the status/flags...etc (that is why if one ever looks on Realtor.com and sees something that is "sold"....they are not recognized by consumer sites, and, remain until "closed" status, or cancelled, etc.........ie: Consumer sites don't recognize "pending, contingent on financing, contingent on close," etc...all those flags...otherwise, essentially, same inventory....

Hard business, but, can be easy if understood and approached in specific ways...

Still, it would take some time to grease the wheels in such a career. I'm thinking that, for tax year 2008, I should declare any income I've banked as monies earned consulting at what I used to do. But what about after that? I hesitate to set up a dummy business as a former file-churner, and I know that's not what you really encourage anyway--but I feel like I need to do something like that for tax purposes and for scrubbing purposes until I get my real estate license.

Well, goes back to original and latest topics of how much one wants to declare .....minimal not a problem and really shouldn't have any other problems unless something done to cause one...(I have not , for example, been hearing too many good things about the home office deductions, so....I can claim 2, (Maybe 3), but, I don't......know it could be a potential problem......minor, but, nevertheless.....last think I need is another PITA....

Might want to look into it first.....not the job and career most think.....(I've done more than average agent and broker...and, know 50 of em my entire life, so.......I consider myself more well versed than 99% and would say that and prove it directly to any, anywhere, anytime.....) Something you should look into......not what most think it is......unless one understands it, truly, and, approaches it a different way......(True issue with all is procuring clients.....once one can get past that issue, all isn't really a problem, and, with tens of thousands around one in any metro (maybe more).......have to approach it differently.....Procuring clients #1 enemy of all those guys.....so, what one should focus on and if that can be overcome with success, can be a great business....(I do know a couple who pocket more than 1MM a year..).....several who do 200-400k a yr......most though....numbers are suprising..(I think industry standards state "average" agent makes 36k, and "average" broker makes 60k....so....(Most see huge money......not necessarily...95% would make more in another field.....and, of course, no benefits packages to accompany, etc, so.....

A rather candid account, but there it is. What say you, J? Does this plan sound feasible? I am concerned about holes, and the odds of an audit.

Well, just the above........and, I hope doesn't discourage, because, of course, last thing I try to do is such, but, think all should always be aware of the truth, and, proceed accordingly......

 

[NPK]

That's some ****in car..

Yeah yeah, I know. But hey, it gets me from A to B!

Hmmmm.........I'm at about that myself....(15)....I prefer loaded gun in desk instead of noose ....Been crossing my mind more often lately something has to change...very tired, very burned out.....lately contemplating making some changes, and, that I might be much happier slowing down, reworking expenses needed....change of lifestyle......

Seems the craving for a career change somewhere around mid-life is widespread, no matter what you do: I can hardly count the number of people I've known who've actually done so, or badly wanted to.

Well......an agent or broker as a career is far from what most imagine.....and, things mentioned here actually make more...not to mention independent contractor status, so.....while everything deductible, have to pay quarterlies, and, money can be few and far in between.....I know all the stats from my buddies......5% do 95% of all deals.....50% fail first year......50%+ of the remaining fail and quit the second, so, very tough business, but, it is extremely misunderstood also.....Some get licenses to save on commissions from their projects, but, again, given overall situation, sometimes not a significant savings on that either....ie: 10k savings, but, 1k + to establish ones self, then 500 annual dues, then E&o, then monthly MLS, etc....then many have continuing education to maintain, then renewal, etc, so........something I have thought about since I do a LOT of stuff, but, in the end, I decided against it...My guys give me a break and kick some back, and, that's good enough for me.....

Oh absolutely, it's a tough business. I don't labor under any illusion that it would be a cakewalk. Even so, I know several folks who've done very well--one in particular had the inside track on properties that the average layman would not be privy to. She now owns multiple properties as a result. That's what I find attractive about the idea. (Granted, she also has a good 12 years in RE.) It also seemed like getting the license would provide a good basic education in the field, even if I never sold a single thing...though I suppose I could get much the same education without a license. The thing that appeals is the inside track--more so than sales commissions.

I do know mortgage brokers who've done really well, though they're not too happy with the present state of affairs. "Never been worse" is what one friend says, and he thinks it's going to get worse still over the next year. I'm not interested in peddling loans, though.

Might want to look into it first.....not the job and career most think.....(True issue with all is procuring clients.....once one can get past that issue, all isn't really a problem, and, with tens of thousands around one in any metro (maybe more).......have to approach it differently.....Procuring clients #1 enemy of all those guys.....so, what one should focus on and if that can be overcome with success, can be a great business....(I do know a couple who pocket more than 1MM a year..).....several who do 200-400k a yr......most though....numbers are suprising..(I think industry standards state "average" agent makes 36k, and "average" broker makes 60k....so....(Most see huge money......not necessarily...95% would make more in another field.....and, of course, no benefits packages to accompany, etc, so.....

.......and, I hope doesn't discourage, because, of course, last thing I try to do is such, but, think all should always be aware of the truth, and, proceed accordingly......

Agreed, one should proceed with eyes wide open and no illusions. Changing your career, even when you can grow your own financing, is no simple thing.

Thanks for the time and feedback J--appreciate it.

 

[Julian]

Yeah yeah, I know. But hey, it gets me from A to B!

I wasn't ****in with ya.....if you've had it that long and still kickin, well, that's some ****in car

Seems the craving for a career change somewhere around mid-life is widespread, no matter what you do: I can hardly count the number of people I've known who've actually done so, or badly wanted to.

Yeah......seems we all didn't catch "be careful what you wish for" the first time we heard it

Oh absolutely, it's a tough business. I don't labor under any illusion that it would be a cakewalk. Even so, I know several folks who've done very well--one in particular had the inside track on properties that the average layman would not be privy to. She now owns multiple properties as a result. That's what I find attractive about the idea. (Granted, she also has a good 12 years in RE.) It also seemed like getting the license would provide a good basic education in the field, even if I never sold a single thing...though I suppose I could get much the same education without a license. The thing that appeals is the inside track--more so than sales commissions.

Well, lot of things one can do also.........can use commissions for materials on a property (you of course get commissions on your own deals)..with time comes the building of referrals and less dependent on new clients, etc....(key is follow up though).....couple deals and you have a fairly good knowledge of the overall picture/entire process/transactions and nuances, etc.....Not necessarily a bad thing as long as one is aware of the problems and downsides in advance......also leaves a lot of free time....I know quite a few who do it as a second job......(which is again .........well, if they spent as much time and effort on it as other things, it might be enough....)

Lot of people have problems getting it's 1099, and, Self employment tax applies, etc, so, taxed greater than when one is W-2.....lot of downsides, lot of upsides.....

I do know mortgage brokers who've done really well, though they're not too happy with the present state of affairs. "Never been worse" is what one friend says, and he thinks it's going to get worse still over the next year. I'm not interested in peddling loans, though.

Same basis as a broker (mortgage and real estate brokers)....must obtain clients, per deal basis, 1099, etc, difference is RE you make 3x's more, so...for that reason, RE always preferred...(But, mortgages a little simpler as a whole....)

Both have immense competition though in any metro area, and, the more rural, the more difficult it is....ie: Major metro can have 200-2000 units per block......the more that dwindles, more difficult it is......

Agreed, one should proceed with eyes wide open and no illusions. Changing your career, even when you can grow your own financing, is no simple thing.

Thanks for the time and feedback J--appreciate it.

Grow your own financing That's funny

Amen.......

On a different note....regarding planning of ops, and, such......it's fairly often I recommend "The Art of War" to people to read........much applies directly to running grows.......planning....the enemy........etc....

I recommend everyone, anywhere, anytime get a copy....read through it at least 500 times (not exaggerating.........)

Maybe I'll throw in one of my favorite passages when I get a chance (or, couple passages pieced together from different places...)

 

[Julian]

Some other random notes:

Sun Tzu
If you know the enemy, and know yourself, you need not fear the result of 100 battles. If you know yourself and not the enemy, for every victory gained, you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy or yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

The General who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The General who loses the battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus, do many calculations lead to victory, and few to defeat;How much more no calculations at all. It is by attention this point that one can foresee who is likely to win or lose.

Applies to outdoor.......Who and what is the enemy?...LE, thieves, discovery,animals, environmental......What is "the battle"?....bringing all in successfully.....safe, unharmed....Calculations of course planning.....execution...details.......

(Magic of the book is applies to any situation where one is placed against any "opponent"...)

I have always been of, and, relayed the mindset that while many consider many things "risky", adequate planning and attention to detail, one is that much more certain of success........I don't consider growing as a whole "risky"....(I consider running ops blindly, not adhering to all "rules" as being extremely risky...)

Many know I also trade, and, consider such the same....I know I have won before the trade is made by what has gone into it before executing...It is not difficult to be near "certain" of the outcome of something before one has started, based on all ....(which may arise from firsthand or secondary knowledge, experience, etc.....)

In any case....my little addition regarding planning and preparations...



Other notes:
Lot of people bring up privacy issues, relating to starting, also same relating to drying issues.

Outdoor dry already mentioned (many times before, many places), and, can also apply and lay exactly in line with starting, etc.....ie: One does not have the facilities or privacy, but, applies to those who have some sort of starting budget....

Can always grab quick, cheaper rental, or, as above, if in position can grab something for minimal down entering the season, use for prep, drying, etc, and, same procedure as above, when finished with it, do some work, rent, hold, etc.....

(I use, as above, other places for my prep. Veg centers usually fairly safe as minimal power draws, minimal supplies needed and "suspicious" activity.....One of many reasons why I have always favored "veg centers"....very safe......no traffic, no power, no smell, etc....When moving into drying, again, no traffic, no power, and, if necessary just bring in a couple filters for the process...(if bulk, you really have to.....) You think a 20k+ smells, try that same basement packed wall to wall with fans drying ....

Outdoor always preferred if possible, and, again, my recommendation everyone try a little, can use the popcorn for bubble on earlier rounds for "test runs"...superior product all will see, and, changes drying, transport, and packaging issues, and, also, scheduling....(Cut and hang this week, next week pack and cut and hang, etc, etc...always works out very well and efficient....)

Just a couple things couple were asking about...thought would bring up, especially the drying since the majority now are entering the end shortly....

 

[mark6699331]

Nice read through Julian. I like water crystals and 3 month time realeased osmocote style fertiliers too for outdoor. I like to do a one week mountain backpack style and bring like 40 plants in grocery bags. Stop every 1/2 mile go 100yards to the right of trail and then 100 yards to the left. Put out in triangles of three (3 triangless of three at a equal distance- both to avoid total ripoffs and to triangulate because sometimes their hard to find in the fall they blend in so good.) Keep on every half mile till all plants out or till at campsite. Camping and growing = fun+money = long life.

Oh and as far as paperwork move to cali and do it legal and pay taxes then forget about all the hassle of having to hide it all. You can even deduct your fertilizer costs etc.

Nice thread!

mark

 

[Julian]

Nice read through Julian.

Hey, thanks my friend! Glad you found of interest.....Just walked in actually and was editing a couple pics and actually was lecturing all day and yesterday , so, had some stuff to add of use to people..(transporting, drying, etc....)

I like water crystals and 3 month time realeased osmocote style fertiliers too for outdoor.

You know.....I have been doing bulk organics for a while, and, this year...hard year, expensive year, etc, and, was just talking today with partners about the same..(They brought it up....Just osmocote, etc.....cheaper, quicker, easier......Believe it...mixing couple hundred lbs of Guano's is not a pleasant or safe task....(Caution to all.....ventilation, masks, etc.....seriously.....Nice breath/lungful of that shit will lay you out....

Yeah, crystals saved me more than once...I try and stay away as much as possible to start with...so

I like to do a one week mountain backpack style and bring like 40 plants in grocery bags. Stop every 1/2 mile go 100yards to the right of trail and then 100 yards to the left. Put out in triangles of three (3 triangless of three at a equal distance- both to avoid total ripoffs and to triangulate because sometimes their hard to find in the fall they blend in so good.) Keep on every half mile till all plants out or till at campsite. Camping and growing = fun+money = long life.

.....I've become more of an "outdoorsman" since I went full blown outdoor ...It's nice actually.....Just what I needed, and, every day/time is like the first ...

Yeah, earlier in thread....exactly what I do with city things....(bag up, walk, plant, move, etc.....over long distances ...that's the way....that's the way brother.....very efficient, very safe....ie: Spread em out as much as possible.....lose some?...no biggie.....more there .....

Oh and as far as paperwork move to cali and do it legal and pay taxes then forget about all the hassle of having to hide it all. You can even deduct your fertilizer costs etc.

Nice thread!

mark

Thanks again man....Yeah, honestly?...I was in talks about 2 years ago (3?...don't remember.....was when decision going through...2 years ago?).....was in talks with several people out there about getting involved with dispensary.....Have looked into relocating for a while...(Not only for green, but, throw that on top and, enough to get my interest...), but, I dunno bro...still seems so, so hot.......See dispensaries closed daily....see med growers crops jacked daily........I mean,.....still slightly more attractive, but....not as much as I initially though....still think about it, and, have....ummm...........Ummmm ...Well...I have talked to someone about a rental out there........in the hills....seems that's more than enough to get phone and utilities hooked up, and, to get a CA drivers license ...Know a doctor or two out there.....

Onl;y a couple hrs away .....



Yeah, Despite a lot of work lately, did manage a few pics...looking through to see how they looik and wanted to add some stuff about transport, drying....etc .......(I even lectured someone about cheese But, I will leave that out (But, how that started is actually applicable to transport)

 

[mark6699331]

Only clubs getting busted are ones selling illegially or not paying taxes etc. I've not seen one legit club closed yet esp. in norcal. I live blocks from 3 clubs and its legal as burger king. Even the local cops support it.

I didn't like guano's outdoors cause animals dig up organics when they smell it. the osmocotes have no "digup" smell and they time release nicely especially in areas like where i grew up in michigan where it rains or thuderstorms weekly. the plants LOVE EM.

I've found all that stuff about water crystals being bad is by people who never used them. Mix them in good with the dirt when planting and no problem. I pack them in dry but wet them before putting into the ground. The plants love em and no trails to the patches as watering isn't as necessery unless you live in a no rain area then weekly to rehydrate works wonders.

I'll also use the 6 month flowering osmocotes at the same time i plant in the spring with the 3 month veg. ones. that way by time flowering is coming round the 6 monthers are coming into their own.

take care

mark

 

[Julian]

Only clubs getting busted are ones selling illegially or not paying taxes etc. I've not seen one legit club closed yet esp. in norcal. I live blocks from 3 clubs and its legal as burger king. Even the local cops support it.

Really?.....I've seen a lot just scanning in past year....so, I did see what appears to me that they seem to be going after extremely large and successful ones, leaving ones nearby(smaller) alone.....That just kind of rubber me wrong, ya know? (ie: City says okay, county says fine, state says sure...(they pay state sales tax?)...income tax paid...business license, insurance, etc, and, next day, DEA comes in and jacks me....really didn't like the sound of that (would really piss me off.....reallly bad )

Still thinking about it though.....have several very old and dear friends there, (and their recommendations/caregiver if I go ) which, the older we get are more important to us......Still on my list of interest though.....look at properties out there every now and then...(would also relocate whole family with me (and the recs too , so.....you know, not only me, and, makes it a much more serious issue as far as security, etc.....)

I didn't like guano's outdoors cause animals dig up organics when they smell it. the osmocotes have no "digup" smell and they time release nicely especially in areas like where i grew up in michigan where it rains or thuderstorms weekly. the plants LOVE EM.

Michigan is awesome.....no stranger .....know that entire region (Mississippi all the way to Atlantic...best in US if you ask me overall......as far as no maintenance goes....)

(And, before anyone gets their panties in a twist....Cali weather better...not enough rain....Arizona, New Mexico very nice, but, again, lack of the vegetation I like (heavy, heavy, for stealth/camo) and the moisture, so....I like that region.....no maintenance extremely easy..."cakewalk"....abundant rain, but, flipside is mold a constant threat and enemy......but, eh.....works...I like it ....

Yeah, I know (animal bait)...Guano's I've always used, but, never really had a problem... use blood or bone sparingly..., but, used an extremely large amount of guano's this year, and, really no problems at all.....(I expected some....)

I'm no stranger to animal problems, but, eh....minimal.....we cage heavy most of the time, so.....(mosquitos my greatest enemy nursing several thousand bites as we speak.....haven't been hit this hard in a while...my ears are going to be ringing for days (literally.......was covered non stop for extended periods...non stop...was ****in ridiculous

I've found all that stuff about water crystals being bad is by people who never used them. Mix them in good with the dirt when planting and no problem. I pack them in dry but wet them before putting into the ground. The plants love em and no trails to the patches as watering isn't as necessery unless you live in a no rain area then weekly to rehydrate works wonders.

Well, I love em, and, somewhere above more "friendly" ones recommended...so, will try those in future, but, I swear by them......I mean,objective is to stay away as much as possible, so, I tell people...even if they can buy you an extra 2 weeks......that's still 2 trips....you keep an eye on weather...rains coming in....might be able to skip 3rd week, etc.......and, I believe key is as above, getting em in before the rains coming....(I do crystals all ways...city spots they are in my water and I add dry to holes......sometimes mix them into my dry nute mix also...I use em 100 ways for all (city, large, early, late, etc.....)

Yeah, you keep an eye on the weather, and, can very well save people trips, etc...lot of things people can do for rain......from holes, to before rains, to crystals, to "wells", ditches, right placement in spots, etc.....ground cover helps also to hold/control evap, etc(My city spots are the worst.....absolutely zero ground cover and they absolutely friggin bake in summer......must be 150 degrees top temps..(don't know, never measured)...

I'll also use the 6 month flowering osmocotes at the same time i plant in the spring with the 3 month veg. ones. that way by time flowering is coming round the 6 monthers are coming into their own.

take care

mark

Well, my forest spots I have done absolutely no maintenance..(meaning 3" peat pots in 3" holes, no nutes, etc), and been fine, so....people forget soil not really neutral to start with also....(my city spots same...I add some mix in holes and come back months later ideally......ideally..), so...I sometimes use it (osmo, MG 3 month, etc)....when I run out of the good stuff, not going to take shipments in middle of project, so, just grab what I can day to day, inconspicuous.....

Also really thinking as above somewhere, just forgetting earlier and starting maybe mid July....saving the 2+ months....at least one partner is starting to agree....enjoy life a little more (Which is easy for them to say....I'm doing 12 months straight basically....they just do May 15-Oct 31st ..I'm working and planning and planting and cutting and cloning 24/7/365 essentially

 

[Julian]

Notes, in no specific order:
Since I was lecturing today, fresh in my mind. (And, elsewhere, please, there is a difference between cheese and "processed cheese food[/i] ) Now, the reason I say that, and, of it's importance is this: (Many of you will like it)

As somewhere above, reason for everything....I do certain things, for certain things, all for a reason....above listed example was I always wear white or lighter shits....(So seatbelt clearly visible from distance)......

Where does the cheese lecture fall in?

Me?.....I like to grill......what summers all about......Sure, I like my steaks, sausage, seafood, and, everything else, but, really, I just like my cheeseburgers (angus, on fresh bakery rolls).....but, of course, has to be cheese......not ****ing "processed cheese food".....(sent the help out for cheese....came back with "processed cheese food" ....doesn't taste the same...doesn't melt the same...etc.....)

Now, your still wondering I am sure "wtf does this have to do with anything"......

Well, after doing "yardwork" all day ...nothinbg like sitting back.....drinking something ice cold...fire up grill, and, eat something......

What does this have to do with anything?

You know......it's never unwise during harvest season for one to do as all know...speed limit, seatbelt, clean car/truck.....and, as mentioned, something lighter so seatbelt visible, nice clean change of casual clothes, and, of course, only between 9-5pm......but, even better is to have a plate or two with a couple burgers, some food, because, after all, your guy a regular guy, was with family, grilled a little, and, going home to get ready to go out later.....Hell, maybe even it's your girlfriends birthday (see the birthday cake on the back seat? ....)I'm sure most will see where I am going with that.... (We always grill 5 times more than everyone wants Everyone takes some home ....)

Me?During fall?...always someones birthday, and, always grilling (herein lies one of the private jokes for "Julian/Jules" to those who have ever seen Pulp Fiction, and, when they change their clothes for the drive with Mr. Wolf... I've been called "Jules" after changing clothes

Right time of day..nice clean change of casual clothes..(like sitting around, grilling , and, some food (plastic wrapped only, so all visable......always plastic wrap, no baggies, by association, and, no foil......clear wrap, so, simple glance lets one know what it is....) Some food, camera....nothing but a local visiting family..

(Besides, realistically?....relax a littl;e, have something to eat....enjoy.....takes the "edge" off of all regarding the entire process...)

For those who go the extra mile...caravans and lead cars are nothing new I am sure , so....Can also fill boats, etc, etc.....lead car should always be couple miles ahead, with rear mirroring loaded car.....all depends on your load how much you put into it.....Larger loads?...Can be running up to 6.....

Since approaching time, a quick review again on drying outside for those who think they want a sample run...

1. Key is circulation.......first and foremost......

2.Everything hung should be checked prior....absolutely anything turning south? Get rid of all of it, and, think twice about hang, depending on weather and the spot your using...(I have, many times cleaned things and left them and they were fine.....you must be thorough though.....)

3.Shaded, out of sun...while many have had it in sun, myself included, and, will not necessarily damage product (taste, smell, etc), still might turn it a little dark(er), so, ideally, you want the best shaded/covered spots possible (note: we are talking "direct" sunlight here....during the day.....sunlight is, of course, bright , so, most spots will still be in daylight, we're talking no direct sun.....

4.What to expect: In most climates (with some hunidity of varying levels), you will not find it dry upon returning.....Most moisture will be gone...quite a bit of size left, and, of course, they will have continued growing/finishing, so......for the most part, you should be able to pack (less size, less smell), take back (as always, you want to in any container as little as possible, so, the longer the drive the quicker it should be out when returning to location.....), and, either hang untrimmed to finish dry (could be 5 more days), or, trim, and hang or lay out to your preference, and, could be 2-3 days and should be ready to cure your preferred method.....(Hanging untrimmed will of course be the best result.....Quite possible after 1 week hang, still able to put through machine also, depending....Longer and slower the dry, the better the product, and, look forward to many doing side by side comparisons .....

Remember.....the plant, upon cut, still has enormous amounts of vegetation and life left.....and, one will find quite a bit of growth since cut.....(When I hang, I feel less bad if I have to cut something earlier, because I know the hang is equivelant to an extra week basically.....)

Of course, should be, as above, as much out of rain as possible....but, again, it is still alive, and, the fans and secondaries will cover and protect quite a bit (rain or sun), so.....But, key is in circulation and also checking prior to the hang (for mold, etc)...Rule of thumb is if it's fine when cut, should be fine when you come back. Week to week, ones conditions and location vary...some weeks you may feel comfortable, some not, and, depending on ones situation, one can also hang for less and still accomplish objectives to a degree. (ie: less smell, kless weight, etc........if one is close, they can hang for 3-4 days, etc...if one is extremely close and can monitor, can even hang for slightly more than 6-7 days (I do weekend to weekend basically, so, cut one weekend, pack next weekend and cut next round suits my situation best.....and, the same applies.l.depending on weather, I might go Thursday/Friday....I might do Friday/Saturday....next week might do Sunday/Monday, etc.....all depends on your situation, weather, locations.....(one can also, as above, use ropes, pull up into trees, etc...100 ways to do it....I just hang on nearest covered spots with good location and conditions.....)

I know everyone likes their pictures, so, here's a couple (I actually see no purpose for them, since nothing relavant to illustrate, and, no "point", but, couple short during the workdays.....) So, I consider these only for friends....(Everyone else won't see them anyway and just complain how no pictures in thread )

Actually, possible one point or two....I'm definitely pleased with the power plants.Absolutely....Much tighter and nicer (quality) than I thought they would be. Really wanted them topped and think they would have performed much better (yield), but, all in all, very pleased with them. Will run them again....

One of my partner at one spot.... He's a tiny little guy, isn't he (6' 2") Looks like he's pondering something.....wonder what?..

This one is definitely as solid as it looks, this one is definately as big as it looks, and this one is definitely as white as it looks ...(I wanted to get in closer and some nicer shots, but, were prety busy and sun was definately brighter than it looks (First ones are probably going to have to come down shortly to prevent mold issues....)

Couple more from part of a spot, and, couple more from another spot, and, yet, couple more from another spot. (As one can see, a lot of these, they go farther back, closer, etc, really hard to see in some actual numbers per shot....) Such as this one, which I find fairly amusing, because, I could swear that bigger one in background is bending over to try and get in the shot/picture . Couple more from part of another spot....

Sorry couldn't wander and take pics for days, but, those are just a couple, from a couple spots, out of many more, in many locations, (10-20% of each spot.......3-4 spots out of 100?...) so..........had a little work to do

Have more, but, really, all the same...just plants, more plants, more plant, more plants.....

and? ........

Pleased with Power Plants though (DP Fems)......didn't expect them to be as tight, or, as nice....glad I ran them, and, will again..(except maybe a little earlier so larger, and, topped couple times......) Think they would do very well.....Had some issues at one point...wasn't sure if diet, or, heavier rains at one point....Also of note and of interest......specs and write up is "they start slow and finish fast"......

ABSO****INLUTeLY ...I'm surprised at growth rates......actually, as earlier in thread...from day one......even from seed, even in early veg.........astounding.....

 

[RevolutionX]

Holy crap Julian. Muchos respect for the efforts you go through. I had no clue you were a guerilla master. Those are freakin Huge trees..lol...awesome. Also i appreciate the small tips, i like stuff like that. I never thought of the drying up in trees- genius. I hope its cool for me to stick around and learn a thing or two. Humbles myself

 

[Julian]

Holy crap Julian. Muchos respect for the efforts you go through. I had no clue you were a guerilla master.

Ehh....I''m humbled and flattered.....but, just a busy guy who likes cheeseburgers.. (c h e e s e....not "processed cheese food" )

Those are freakin Huge trees..lol...awesome.

Actually, all those aren't the biggest ones, believe it or not

Also i appreciate the small tips, i like stuff like that.

S'what it's all about ....

I never thought of the drying up in trees- genius.

Yeah.......as elsewhere/earlier....Can hang from branches, can ties ropes and pull up into canopy (if security concerns)....endless stuff, and, on that note.....in addition to above:

Outdoor Drying:
You have to make sure, again, circulation is adequate...that means whatever the method (branches, ropes, anything) they can't be spaced tight...circulation is key....

I hope its cool for me to stick around and learn a thing or two. Humbles myself

S'your guys thread man, not mine....I'm just adding what I can, when I can....ya know?

Glad of interest and use....

 

[3BM]

Man those are beasts!

I marvel that you can get 10+ft from a 2ft hole. In my area its nothing but clay, if I dont dig in and aerate a huge area they stay little runts. Highly nutritive is clay, but so dense the roots cant penetrate.

 

[rhizome]

Ehh....I''m humbled and flattered.....but, just a busy guy who likes cheeseburgers..

Well, then, I'd like to buy you a cheeseburger, someday when you have the time...

Great thread, guy- it's rare that we step back and look at things objectively.

And I'll cover a burger for anybody who quotes Sun Tzu- most valuable thing I've ever read, and worth a re-read anytime.

 

[Julian]

Man those are beasts!

Thanks man....such is the life or a farmer....(or white collar urban guerilla )

Depends....this year I basically planted May 1st or so into August, so....you know...from 6ft-15+ft or so....(pics...some are 6-8....some 8-12...some well over 12, etc......) reflects the rounds they fell into.....and, as can be seen, some spots share different rounds if they were good spots and more could be added...some 4-6's can be seen next to 12's, etc....

Yeah, some are amusingly large (Would have rather had those topped though and smaller...would have saved a lot of trouble...had some storms knock quite a few...)

I marvel that you can get 10+ft from a 2ft hole. In my area its nothing but clay, if I dont dig in and aerate a huge area they stay little runts. Highly nutritive is clay, but so dense the roots cant penetrate.

Well, in some cases (later rounds...) 3" peat pots go straight into ground, and, can still do 10-12's...all depends on the spot....

I actually work a lot of heavy clay spots.....so, know what your talking about.....(I drill those in earlier rounds)...seems better just to drill, break up sides with claw (as drill can smooth the sides of hole and make it worse), and, dump in bag of soil......(I didn't this year...) Had some issues with some spots due to that (clay...heavy storms, water, etc)....but, seems they're now doing okay.....

All depends on soil....some years I have done absolutely no holes, just straight 3" peat pots at about 1ft directly in ground in May and ended up with Giants...but, of course, there is a lot more to that (position/sun, nutes, water, strain....any one or all can affect overall seasonal performance......and, accordingly, even any single one can dramatically alter your yield....ie: all in line but low yielder.....all in line but way to much rain at wrong times that season, or, another example....)

(I've also done rounds with absolutely no nutes in no holes....still turned out fine (overall......could have performed better with them, of course....) Such as my city spots only get hit when planted with handful of dry mix, and, if I get by there (which I try not to), I take a little with me (water, mix), cause I'll be there anyway, ya know?...