MASSIVE OUTDOOR GROW

[Julian]

Thanks man. It's actually a Mr Nice strain: Shit, to be exact. It's the biggest yielder I've ever grown. I grew it outside in 3-gallon pots of coco coir. It responds very well to topping--when you do that, each branch is capped with a big fat cola. Very pleasing to grow. At first I was kinda "meh" about the flavor and the high, but it improves with a little time in glass. I still have a bunch of beans and am already planning to use 'em outside next year.

The CM (Critical Mass) is heavy also, but, had mold issues. (MY biggest years were CM and BB x based....)

I mentioned earlier somewhere (this name, another....May?) Had Shit on the menu this year, but, didn't work out that way......Maybe next time ....

Speaking of outside next year--guys, I can't seem to stop scoping for spots!

Been said but always worth saying again.......Not a bad idea already to be working on next season now or even earlier...(I usually start as soon as early as the start of current.....) Gives you time to plan, revise, accumulate, etc....Can't go wrong with adequate planning ....(likewise, the more you plan, prepare, the more one can also change direction as they go along, etc......more it's thought through, etc.....) Spots good example....when one is always looking for new spots, always a backlog, and, some seasons, can even extend...(I kind of extended this year....continued planting until very end and still have a list of new/proposed spots and a couple ideas on the backburner .....No limit for those on top of it ......

No limit

Got to thinking that 50 plants won't be enough when you take probable losses (animals, rippers, etc.) into account. So now, I'm not even thinking about specific numbers so much as the concept of as many as possible. To that end, I've found three or four more possibly excellent spots. Can't wait to try a late-winter-early-spring mini!

That's what I was saying above.......definitely...people preoccupied with numbers, not the spots ....Spots are all that matter.....(although, of course, security issues apply, and, some might want to limit what they do per spot, etc, which is completely understandable...I like the multiples, and, the multiples per spot because that also insulates one (psychologically, emotionally) against a loss.......My spot above was quite a few ...and, I hate to think that would happen to someone and they could not afford it and would go back (caught them recently...was late, late night, heavy rain.....looked to me like installing the cameras, and, followed unmarked's a couple days ago and looked like they are indeed circling the plots ...Someone with less going on might be inclined to gho back to that spot out of necessity.......(I'd still like to get back in there November to try and retrieve everything I think they missed for seed....maybe later(Dec) if weather allows, etc.....

Anyway.......hope all is well with everyone and their projects......

 

[Julian]

I am looking for some specific information.

Lot of info , especially specifics and pics earlier in thread.....(Not covering every scenario by any means, but, a far amount of variation and ideas one can draw....)

I have a 400w MH. How many mothers and what size pots, etc do I need and what size do my cutting need to be, what size cups when they are hardened off/put outside? I am also trying to figure out how to carry a couple hundred cutting at once? I have several acre's of area I am going to plant in. I want to get out optimum plants. I have growing experience but never this volume of starting seeds or cuttings. I have a doz assorted seeds now. I am going to order 2-3 dozen more to start from. I will grow and sex them, then use the chicas to get the cutting assembly line gowing. Should I keep several smaller mothers or just a few bigger ones? Also how large shoud the cutting be. I figure 14 days rooting time them I will harden them off. I am hoping to have 21 days from the time they get to they are in the ground. When should I get this all started? I cant find the details. what to I do to prep the sites this year? also what exactly do I do when transplanting just dig the holes and bury? I read alot of people ammend the soil for personal plant. I cant see digging a five gallon hole for a couple hundred plants. I have never turnded over so many cutting so I dont know how big my mother should be? as well I dont know exactly what size container they are in before getting put out doors. Thank you for the information.

As above...my specifics on that are first post basically.

All questions are dealing with personal preference but I am sure the majority would agree with me in stating prep is simple, and, essentially nothing regarding numbers...The biggest issue is not how many can you produce......the biggest issue is how many, when grown to the size you want can you physically handle and maintain...

First post has my details for mid season, later posts have details for later in season.

Single 400 you could do maybe 100-200 at a time earlier.....if working your turnaround (veg, out, veg out, veg out....etc...), you could do literally thousands....later rounds easily thousands....(see earlier for 500 every 5-7 days in 4 x 4 footprint)

All in thread above....including angles regarding personal preference and efficiency issues....

 

[Julian]

Saw this posted elsewhere and had already seen it previously, but, thought worth posting....

An appropriate story relating to everything mentioned, and, one can play around with site and entry to site and access and read Federal search warrant. (40 pages). If one has read through this thread and other, one will find almost every one of his "mistakes" leading to his downfall discussed....

I think would be extremely interesting for anyone who doesn't see how pieces all come together

 

[ninfan77]

"The room stank," said Jeff Hamm, a local deputy sheriff who participated in the bust. "When you got out, you were hungry."

rofl i love the ignorance of leo...

So snitched ruined him, goes to show you can't trust anyone especially over a few million dollars

 

[Julian]

Don't fall into that/pay attention to those things.....

The amount of knowledge/information in that article and warrant is limitless/priceless...

 

[Pimpslapped]

Now that is most definitely an interesting read. I had to go back and look over the page again. Somehow I had completely missed the link to the docs... wow. I'm going to have to reread all that again I think, veeeeeeery interesting.

 

[Julian]

Middle left side is pdf link. (Under video) True value and interest lies in that. (I am sure most would find it very interesting.....(extremely detailed..)

Essentially, every single detail and step taken by them from day 1 till day they took him down......Financial, banking, credit, surveillance, car GPS logs, etc...going back even before site was built...

Illustration exactly why financial picture (controlling it) is so important, and, exactly what can be displayed when all compiled for third party view....

 

[Pimpslapped]

Yeah, I'm reading through that still. Definitely puts a lot of things in perspective. I can imagine how he's kicking himself later looking back at those little things that didn't seem important... damn did they help bite him in the kiester.

The funny part is when it actually starts describing what you need to grow marijuana and halfway tells you how to do it. That just struck me as amusing when I read through it.

 

[Julian]

I can imagine how he's kicking himself later looking back at those little things that didn't seem important... damn did they help bite him in the kiester.

Nah....those are things I'm sure he knew when doing them.....He gave them everything they needed....(Too bad he didn't read through a couple thread here before he started )...

Finances seem to be what really messed him up....(mortgages, credit app's, employment issues, banking, etc.....was just a matter of time for him....)

 

[Pimpslapped]

Nah....those are things I'm sure he knew when doing them.....He gave them everything they needed....(Too bad he didn't read through a couple thread here before he started )...

Finances seem to be what really messed him up....(mortgages, credit app's, employment issues, banking, etc.....was just a matter of time for him....)

You're right in that it does seem that the majority of references were to financial blunders. He was running on borrowed time there for sure, nothing ever really matched up. Gotta love rewriting history in an application, eh?

I'll agree that he knew when he was doing most of them that it was a bad idea. But I don't think he ever quite realized just HOW much he was setting himself up there. Probably wasn't all that high on his priority list, when something so fundamental should have been one of the first things he got straight. Part of that I think comes from the arrogance of success, he's been doing this for years and it's smooth sailing. Hasn't been busted yet, just stay cool and you're set... I don't think enough people realize just how much time and surveillance they can throw at you if you look like you're worth it. I mean hell, it ain't like in the movies... that's all fast paced and flashy. Most cases in reality seem to be a lot more paperwork and bird watching, a lot less car chases and shootouts... People get past the immediate, visible 'threat' and then relax thinking that the worst is past.

Well, at least that's my take on it. Definitely a good read for a guide to what you should know better than to do. Just 'cause it looks quiet out there, that don't mean they're not sniffing away.

 

[Guest]

....hmm...no bong hitting smilies... :bonghit: ....that's what I did the whole read

WOW, that shit is whack, like an everything to NOT ****ing do list, from the agent himself
claiming $30k, and then spending $10k a month....

Too many people, too many properties, and a guy who didnt show employment for 10 yrs...go figure...

Thanks a lot for that Julian, saved for sure, funny that mention about the GPS tracker and lack of 'no trespassing' sign, but they had everything to really nail that guy...

PS. my 15 plants all died, didnt have time to dedicate, thought rains, but a week and a half later it rains every other day and cool temps, yup yup


Question
on another note, I'm saving some money, to make more money. Is it worth it to invest in a pick-up, small nissan, decent chevy, when doing outdoor(maybe even compact gas effiecient)? I really make jack shit right now, but its convenient for other interests, for time anyway. But is it worth saving a G or 2 to get a truck to scope and hit spots, supplies, etc, or is a large car with huge trunk doable? I know...what you can, where you can, how you can, if it comes down to no truck then fine, but I wanna get to finding some good spots, and im thinking truck or indoor grow supplies...

Thanks again for article, especially coming back and pointing out link

 

[Julian]

WOW, that shit is whack, like an everything to NOT ****ing do list, from the agent himself

claiming $30k, and then spending $10k a month....

30k (whatever) on tax returns, cashiers checks for 300k to buy 1.5MM house, making up imaginary business's again and again to credit his income, no verifiable employment (ever?), spending your days between homes and hydro store ......

I bet he's really surprised he got caught .....

Thanks a lot for that Julian, saved for sure, funny that mention about the GPS tracker and lack of 'no trespassing' sign, but they had everything to really nail that guy...

I believe all CI's were growers who were popped..(one of them knew guy on crew who serviced/built house/op space...)

GPS was noteworthy as was discussion previous in S&L forum...probably many questioning the use ....(Logs were about what I described )

I thought it was/is a pretty good read for those who wonder how they initiate and proceed on a take down....extremely detailed, very thorough....textbook for the most part...

(Many comments have been about the property itself , when, in reality, as all clearly stated, had nothing to do with the property and theoretically if he had followed all protocol, he could have gotten away with it indefinitely....(and, in the process, retired a extremely wealthy man....but, he couldn't wait for his toys and the payoff......either you do it right, or, you don't do it at all........referring to business's, homes, etc, vs. living meager until your done....)

Edit: Also, essentially entire thing (40 pages) is a narrative by Agent in charge of case, so, puts it in yet another perspective for the reader, etc.......I thought a pretty good read though for many, with almost every aspect covered.......very good read I thought..(first time, I read it all the way through start through finish....)

Also worked well with general tone of thread.....ie: Topic, comments, discuss, illustration .....illustrates many points discussed here and in other and how they are pieced together in reality, practice, etc....ie: real life example, current, of all topics discussed.

PS. my 15 plants all died, didnt have time to dedicate, thought rains, but a week and a half later it rains every other day and cool temps, yup yup

I'm sorry........yeah, late starts need a lot of attention......have to watch that moisture.....cannot underestimate how fragile they are initially until they grab......very sensitive to environmental when that small/young....

Question
on another note, I'm saving some money, to make more money. Is it worth it to invest in a pick-up, small nissan, decent chevy, when doing outdoor(maybe even compact gas effiecient)? I really make jack shit right now, but its convenient for other interests, for time anyway. But is it worth saving a G or 2 to get a truck to scope and hit spots, supplies, etc, or is a large car with huge trunk doable? I know...what you can, where you can, how you can, if it comes down to no truck then fine, but I wanna get to finding some good spots, and im thinking truck or indoor grow supplies...

Thanks again for article, especially coming back and pointing out link

No problem and pretty good question as I have....(thinking how to phrase )....I have known many who for the most part keep vehicles only for work (because they beat the shit out of them in the process), and, basically, let's say might just keep them on site....(lot of people have their "winter beaters)...same for "field vehicles".....all depends on you man, if it's in your budget........and, how you run things, and, if cost efficient, ya know?.....also depends how much your going to use it, and when, and, my rule of thumb, with my train of thought is always will work it's used for pay for it ...On a budget, it might not, ya know?......so, you said it brother...what you can, when you can, how you can, where you can...so, if you can;t?....then **** it ....(I'm generally not a fan of many (tucks, etc).........ie: no trunks.....

 

[ninfan77]

Wow, that's a lot of moving money around in huge amounts and almost nothing claimed on taxes for business' or personal.

400k for this, 120k for that, 1.4M for a house.. i mean geezus... why do all this while you're running the damn thing. Well lessons learned for everyone else

Seems like CS1,2,3, and the CC are what really got the ball rolling here.... Too many people knew what was going on at that house.

 

[NPK]

Indeed, it was an extremely informative read. I think we all owe the agent a big thank you for giving such a detailed account of what law enforcement looks for. Good to know, among so many other things, that a visible security camera may be considered a tip-off, and that one shouldn't leave any identifying documents in storage lockers.

I was shocked at the grower's laxity around financial affairs--especially at how none of his numbers matched up. The agent also provided very detailed information from an associate at the IRS about the kinds of documentation they expect to see in a legit business, including customer/client lists. That touches on something that's been on my mind for months: suppose you go ahead and start a dummy business. You do all the right things: pay taxes regularly, keep business and personal funds strictly separate, make sure all your numbers match up, and so on--but somehow you get audited anyway, or find yourself in the unpleasant position of having to provide a customer/client list to the authorities. In short, you'd be screwed. So the thing I'm wondering is, what can you do to avoid scrutiny in the first place, and what small businesses can you feasibly start without finding yourself on an audit list? I imagine that even dog-walkers and auto-detailers would be expected to provide the names of their customers.

 

[Julian]

Indeed, it was an extremely informative read. I think we all owe the agent a big thank you for giving such a detailed account of what law enforcement looks for. Good to know, among so many other things, that a visible security camera may be considered a tip-off, and that one shouldn't leave any identifying documents in storage lockers.

Couple points also:

Security Cameras...........for what?????

For what?????

To give you 30 seconds to do what you should have addressed previously and now it's too late?....If they're there, they're there.....too late, your down. Mind shifts to next steps.... (Or, at the very least, if needed for escape...well, when will it occur to people they are best hidden as well as possible..........again: ie: What good is a "security" camera if everyone who passes clearly see it/them? (Same as weapons...unless your going to stare at the screens 24/7........what's the point?....money better spent elsewhere.....)

Storage lockers?..........Been written about before...

1.You want largest facilities, with interior spaces....
2.You enter and exit under spaces in others names......clean spaces...(ie: You enter under space 303......once inside, you proceed to space 215(yours), then exit under codes for 303....(talking larger public locations.......)

They have cameras, they have logs of all entry and exits in relation to spaces............

I was shocked at the grower's laxity around financial affairs--especially at how none of his numbers matched up.

Nothing, anywhere, anytime even came close......

The agent also provided very detailed information from an associate at the IRS about the kinds of documentation they expect to see in a legit business, including customer/client lists. That touches on something that's been on my mind for months: suppose you go ahead and start a dummy business. You do all the right things: pay taxes regularly, keep business and personal funds strictly separate, make sure all your numbers match up, and so on--but somehow you get audited anyway, or find yourself in the unpleasant position of having to provide a customer/client list to the authorities. In short, you'd be screwed. So the thing I'm wondering is, what can you do to avoid scrutiny in the first place, and what small businesses can you feasibly start without finding yourself on an audit list? I imagine that even dog-walkers and auto-detailers would be expected to provide the names of their customers.

Well, that goes back to issues in other thread also, and, not cut and dry.....(no pun intended )

Earlier examples were how one could begin the process..(dog walker and detailing examples....) One will not that their position was:

One would not be running and operating a business with a 300k net income and have no documentation..... Anything and everything mentioned here and other was completely accurate...(Which also addressed once one surpasses maybe the 50k limit or so to start channeling and working it into a real business, etc......and legit investments...(also goes back to minimal down for properties )....

Nah, documentation issue still stands.....Their point was large operations.....not small self employed.....(The guy claimed the web based business, and, site didn't even work......that is of course such a business that would carry documentation (orders, shipping, suppliers, inventory....)

Remember....service based .....

I think, and, am sure anyone who has read will agree, that is a perfect illustration as to why all financial aspects mentioned do, indeed, apply and are a integral part of the op itself .....(ie: "What does this have to do with growing".....Obviously, everything )...

Nah......initially, self employed, small service business, minimal deductions, which paves the way for one to then use that money to get into other greater things.........

Edit: The points mentioned earlier , while some may use "dummy business", actually addressed it not being such........dba's, tax returns, income declared, etc, etc...., which is another thing which fed into his situation.....no documentation.....Had his business's, banking, tax returns, declared income all fell in line and been correct, that would have possibly changed his situation quite a bit.....

Guy wasn't declaring anything (in comparison to what he was pulling in)....paying no taxes....on large amounts of income with obviously no verified source....

Nowhere would I recommend a detailer, dog walker, self employed tech, contractor, etc, declaring 300k+ of "extra" money......your already 2 more steps down the line at such amounts..(ie: far from the "small business/self employed" scenarios discussed....whole different level, method and approach )

Point of earlier discussions was for average person, how one can start....Can't carry such indefintely or with greater amounts.....

 

[Fast_Pine]

So the thing I'm wondering is, what can you do to avoid scrutiny in the first place, and what small businesses can you feasibly start without finding yourself on an audit list? I imagine that even dog-walkers and auto-detailers would be expected to provide the names of their customers.

GREAT question NPK!!!..Was wondering the same thing myself...

Julian, will they go as far as to ask for customer info?...Any good dummy businesses that dont require that info in the first place..

 

[Pimpslapped]

GREAT question NPK!!!..Was wondering the same thing myself...

Julian, will they go as far as to ask for customer info?...Any good dummy businesses that dont require that info in the first place..

I'm not Julian, but I will put on my mustache and pretend? Though he has far more experience than I do. I think neighborhood cats have more experience than I do at all this sometimes....

As to whether or not they will go so far as to ask? I guess that'd depend on how thorough they're being. Always assume worst case, have your shit together so that if they do go so far as to ask for, or even demand customer information (depending on business/legal status it may be an option to refuse to give specific client info... at least I would assume so. Not necessarily a good move to make, but an option perhaps) you can provide what is necessary. It's always wise, I believe, to be prepared for the worst.

I could be wrong, but I believe that Julians preference is to not use a dummy business at all. Instead use a legitimate business. Not only does that give you the potential to withstand much more scrutiny but it could potentially end up becoming profitable in it's own right. How can you lose there? As to businesses that do not require customer info, sit down for a moment and think of all the businesses you visit in a week. How many of those have you ever been REQUIRED to give information? Probably a relatively small portion of said businesses, barring online businesses where you must provide login info, shipping info, etc... For a small scale, in the proper setting... something as simple as a hot dog stand could be a viable option. Pure cash business, no customer lists, not a terrible amount of accounting to deal with I'd imagine.

 

[Julian]

GREAT question NPK!!!..Was wondering the same thing myself...

Julian, will they go as far as to ask for customer info?...Any good dummy businesses that dont require that info in the first place..

How's your world my friend.....
Nah, apples and oranges.....2 different animals.....the above the guy was essentially doing millions.... I wouldn't even recommend someone doing 50k the way he was (Everything he was doing is completely the opposite of things discussed here and in other thread........ie: Returns not matching banking, no taxes paid on what he banked, business's not even a "dummy" business ......He wasn't even doing it right for small things....)

Little money here and there, minimal deductions....any and all mentioned are fine and pose no risk, but, don't forget the main point....you want something you can actually do....Something you can actually work with....ie: Why not start something you can actually do, and take somewhere....or, the flip side as mentioned, you want to turn the smaller amounts into legit things.... Somewhere above.....guy wants a bar, how does he get one?...use the first small business to accumulate the down for the next larger legit one, etc.....

You can't stay on any one single course indefinitely.......(it's actually fairly complicated the farther and larger you go......small was just addressed, as, again, the way the "average" person (grower) can start getting something done.....(personally, I've obviously always recommended as much as possible.....why not work, business, school, grow, all same time.....I believe in multiple income streams .........)

One will also note, in the above, as such (not declaring, no profession, no employment,he was automatically declared a career criminal. ...... ) There's always a reason behind my points, and, that is obviously one........

A career criminal.....(Yet another angle on how who, and what you are contributes significantly to the overall picture....)

 

[Julian]

I'm not Julian, but I will put on my mustache and pretend?

I miss the other avi......cause I could say "put on 200lbs while your at it )

I could be wrong, but I believe that Julians preference is to not use a dummy business at all. Instead use a legitimate business. Not only does that give you the potential to withstand much more scrutiny but it could potentially end up becoming profitable in it's own right. How can you lose there?

Your not wrong......at all. Little energy, funds....one could actually create many from scratch and turn it into something fairly significant......

Topic (my opinion) has always tried to focus on "building"...(said above.....why not buy a real business?...Many are literally piss cheap.....One should grab a paper and open up the classifieds sometime Tanning places, landscaping business's, hole in the wall bars, small laundromats, etc....all things as low as 10k, or 20k down, etc......which is 6lbs using 3k per....which on a breakdown is 2 batches for someone with a 2k more or less...

As to businesses that do not require customer info, sit down for a moment and think of all the businesses you visit in a week. How many of those have you ever been REQUIRED to give information? Probably a relatively small portion of said businesses, barring online businesses where you must provide login info, shipping info, etc... For a small scale, in the proper setting... something as simple as a hot dog stand could be a viable option. Pure cash business, no customer lists, not a terrible amount of accounting to deal with I'd imagine.

Well, hot dog stand might require a little more (never owned one ) but would say (assuming mobile) you have cart, supplies, etc, maybe even license for your route, vending, etc, so...would require a little more possibly...I like no inventory service business's.......but, again....covered before....My contractors take cash, don't declare it most likely, probably bank some....dog walkers take care, declare some, probably bank some...my tech guys are russians, take cash, don't declare,"business" is craigs list (free) ad and their cell....this is how American "small business" operates.....The focus initially is on your banking and declared income, and takes paid, followed by deductions......

100's of thousands of people operate in such a manner....

I need a driveway redone.....I got a quote (verbal...)....no paperwork....guy won't declare cash I am sure.....no record........

Stated elsewhere: What we are discussing is voluntarily declaring, and paying taxes owed on all income....

Not something to worry about...., and, not the method of the subject in above story....

 

[Pimpslapped]

I miss the other avi......cause I could say "put on 200lbs while your at it )

I actually thought about refering to that one myself! But then again, I actually own the album using that as the cover art. Coulda said I'd put on 200lbs, strip down and curl up in a box juuuuust for you....

I was waiting for you to chime in on the businesses. Remember, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to that side of things. Lack of any real experience and all. The hotdog stand would require a fair bit of paperwork for setup, small bit for maintenance (consumables purchased, etc...). But the question was specifically related to customer info, which in this case would be nonexistant. Besides, I have the munchies so was thinking about food.

Thanks for putting it that way, regarding no inventory service businesses. Something just clicked in my head. Figuring out one of them jiggsaws in planning... Sometimes I think I need to get my brain rewired at Radioshack (You've got questions, we've got blank stares!)