MASSIVE OUTDOOR GROW

[Julian]

Note: Can be just as effective and useful on the smaller things.....ie: Can run 8k with 2k draw.....4k with a 1k draw.....couple bucks extra on set up, (like $1,300 or something...I'm just buying, not DIY) but, probably 3x, 5x, 10x back on first round even on a small one....

Reason why I started looking into it in the first place.....ie: How to max draw/sq. ft. out of every spot.....)

 

[Kushed]

See the wiring is where I might be screwed...I dont have any clue how to wire up a flip flop etc. Can I just buy a premade flip flop and still get this to work somehow? Im not sure tho since I wanted to do a 4/8/16, and a typical 4 ballast flip flop would have 8 lamplines instead of 16 how can i pull this off? Do I need to buy a custom build flip flop? Or am I just screwed for the moment...

 

[GroBoy2000]

Hehe, now we're outside talking about whats going on inside. I was looking over flip flop options myself again. No reason not to run em if the space affords it right?

Anyone know anything about the plug and play units at horticontrol.com? I never thought of staggered til I saw it there the other day. Little over $300 for the 2 ballast unit, on up to 1k for the 8 ballast unit. I've wired a couple pos/negatives, and a fan dimmer, but wouldnt want to start a flip/flop box at all, I'd be so cluelessly out of place at home depot asking for parts.

The show, Sons, kicks ass man. I wasnt positive by the second episode, (I liked first but...) by the third it just kept getting better and better, characters really good, love em, good angles. Kinda makes me want to up and leave to nowhere though, forget things.

 

[Julian]

See the wiring is where I might be screwed...I dont have any clue how to wire up a flip flop etc. Can I just buy a premade flip flop and still get this to work somehow? Im not sure tho since I wanted to do a 4/8/16, and a typical 4 ballast flip flop would have 8 lamplines instead of 16 how can i pull this off? Do I need to buy a custom build flip flop? Or am I just screwed for the moment...

One source and example below, and I linked them for examples. Many places, and many sources for everything. Below links just an example. 2nd link, last example is a staggered flip flop. Requires 2 units.

Anyone know anything about the plug and play units at horticontrol.com? http://www.horticontrol.com/store.html I never thought of staggered til I saw it there the other day. Little over $300 for the 2 ballast unit, on up to 1k for the 8 ballast unit. I've wired a couple pos/negatives, and a fan dimmer, but wouldnt want to start a flip/flop box at all, I'd be so cluelessly out of place at home depot asking for parts.

I linked the above. Actually, one of the people I was talking to sent me there for the diagram and units and such. I was just told simply have the line run for outlet, plug pre made right into it, , or, a 50 if going that way, then run through the above, (2 units), time it out and sequence, and all should be plug in for the most part.....but seems to be issue of checking compatibility with the digitals, and I recall also a bulb compatibility issue as well with the digitals.....(which might no longer be the case, etc....)

You know......electric and all this never my game, so.....I'm just picking up what I can , where I can, when I can, and, when going ahead will go through each step thoroughly, etc...(although still seems to me like not enough for everything......(CO2,a/c,fans,etc..)....I always liked much better just having it done and not having to think about it........real pita.....having to figure out everything in the end, but, upside on it is amounts saved long term....between mechanic and location, that's 60% of net right there (for me in past...10% for mechanic, 50% for location owner)...

Just annoyed lately......people are just sooo FOS it's not even funny......everything's fine?, and everyone wants in.....everyone wants a piece (fuckin been there )........but you get a fuckin hiccup?, and no one to be found....everyone starts to question....

But 15yrs I was golden.......one downturn and all of a sudden my abilities are "questionable"..........Fuckin people are real pieces of work .....

Anyway....above quick example...first to state not my primary and have quite a bit left myself before understanding backwards and forwards.....so....many much more well versed than I....all this, wiring, power, not traditionally my department , so.....

The show, Sons, kicks ass man. I wasnt positive by the second episode, (I liked first but...) by the third it just kept getting better and better, characters really good, love em, good angles. Kinda makes me want to up and leave to nowhere though, forget things.

I like it, but, not watching with commercials anymore....catching it later...(lately starting to do that more and more....just letting it go, and then catching up later a couple or more episodes at a time, no commercials, etc.......think going to start doing that more and more...

It's a good show........certain little things here and there a little annoying sometimes.....take away quite a bit....(I noticed I don't like their use of soundtracks in certain scenes, and, some things of course not "real" per se....but, you know...not many halfway decent shows to start with....at any one time can count em on one hand.......so.....)

Anyway....hope all are well.....hope the above helped....not gospel by any means but a rough idea....not my area, so

 

[Kushed]

Yes it helped greatly! Thank you very much Julian, but one final question on the topic...lol so would a vertical setup be a good idea, since the lamps will be on and off an hour at a time??

 

[Julian]

Yes it helped greatly! Thank you very much Julian, but one final question on the topic...lol so would a vertical setup be a good idea, since the lamps will be on and off an hour at a time??

Well.......draw it up and map it out, and, with right placement and such, might still work very well, because, again, overlapping (or in verticals case, might be some overlapping and each side, etc........You know.....could write it up, map it out and see......and, a personal curiosity note would be throw something outside with good prep, right strain, etc, and, even 6hrs, your still going to pull depending on all variables and such, etc....as with all these matters.....lot of variables, but, know it's been done by many for years, so...verticals?, sure it's been done/tried, and, yeah, depending on spacing and such, layout, etc...might not still be that bad...(most rotate to a degree anyway also, so.....could be another related comparison and argument......rotation of vertical trees would be the same....ie: Not 100% light on each side of plant every day, depending on layout, and, few have less than impressive results, so......would think that the most fitting analogy (Vertical trees and rotation).

From what I see....I think verticals and many aspects misunderstood by most....(dispersion of light for one thing.....) and, as above...really haven't seen many vertical ops that aren't impressive....I actually just pulled everything off a couple somewhere cause threw in a couple rounds, so, room is like a bowl....(sides slightly older, middle newer things, so....pulled em off, bigger perimeter and smaller center, 360% and under coverage, so....I'm into it....looking forward to running some.....thinking about also doing the 6's as above....6/12/24 (6 constant 6's,12/12 staggered flip)....having a couple problems with layout and such....cooling/heat issues (winter coming), but, have some ideas...might set it up winter/summer......ie: sealed and recirculated/enriched winter, than cooled summer, etc...playing with lot of ideas but, we'll see.........winters absolutely fuckin brutal, summers equally....and winter coming, so, cooling first 3 rounds not going to be a problem, and, 24 6's...well, if done well might even shut it down for summer and focus on out...biglaugh:...that's actually how I started way back when doing the outs full time....summer just a shut down for inside.....history already repeating itself ....)

Fuck man......I miss the big, smooth stuff ..(in or out....last season, this season........fuck man....I need a huge one to "get my mind right" ...).......2 yrs now since had unlimited.."too much" on hand .....and that's fuckin 2yrs too long (but, again...relevant........long term activity.....merely just an "inconvenience".......a hiccup....les than 12 months from now could be right again....between in and outs....out?......have another 30 seasons in me ...in's?.....another 120 batches possible (one location, each location would double), so....eh.....is what it is.....getting what I can from being down......and, feel a lot of positive changes in myself, so......hearing from quite a few in life many of those changes readily visible and lot better lately than have been in years, so......but fuck I miss pocketing the cash from everything that goes out .....right about now I'd be happy to pocket just a 100....(400k....would actually milk it and get maybe more.....could throw it out small, split it with em and pocket 600.....)....

Anyway..point is long term activity......hit a bad patch, not the end of the world as long as free.......plenty ahead...hundreds of possible batches in and out.....one single good batch enough...so....in that respect.....I'm feeling fine....just a little uncomfortable , but, 12 months from now?.......who knows ...sure will be fine ...)

 

[Julian]

Note on the above and why I try to press many things....

For a long time socially....I was afraid to admit any downturn....that I was hurt financially..(shows a sign of weakness, lessening of power, etc....)....and, reasons why I preach what I do.....(diversity of interests, multiple streams, legit, etc......)

I had my hand in endless pies, legal and otherwise...

And I still got hit........so.....imagine if it was someone who only had one source, one stream, interest..........ie: Your main thing gets hit, and your fucked.....so......still won't hesitate to say, more than being hit....it's probably the only reason I made it so far after a rough patch.......and still somewhat okay even if not...due to above....ie: 3-4-5+ things can do for large money tomorrow and every day after that.....)

Ops....school......job....business........etc....all of more than one of any or all......I mean......worse case scenario is you hit a "rough patch" (of course I'm downplaying....negativity not going to help, and will just distract me from forward....), best case scenario your wealthy .....and........I rest easy knowing no matter what..

I'll be wealthy again shortly ....

(And of course......the realization and true impact increases 1,000 fold when I look around....and I see people hurting much more.....and.....most of them do not have the ability to do the above.......they have no way to pull themselves and their families out.....ie: "get another job".......and that is their life........

They'll never be able to do the above, because they don't know how to do the above....and, that was a point of sharing many things.....because when one becomes versed in them..(more size to ops....how to start any business.....properties.....trading.......) I mean........you'll be back, no matter what...... .

Always

"Easy as pie" ....(And when you know how to do the above?...much less is required to do it again than before ...whereas when you start(ed)....takes longer, more difficult, etc......ie: I have 4 ways right now which if I had.....eh...200k could turn it into 2MM within 12 months.....(problem is don't have, nor will have that much cash to play with.....don't think going to hit 200k (pocketed, after everything) from this season out...(but between season, an in here and there ....ehh.....maybe by spring ...and if not, then 5 months after that should

Upside of being hit hard was adjustment of lifestyle, expenses, etc.....ie: Yesterday "retirement" was $10MM cash......

Today?....fuck......how I've been feeling lately?....$1MM would be fine...(which is a halfway decent out...(pocketing 300)...trade a little (and liquidate and take a vacation when a good run , which if I would have done last big hit (series of profitable trades).....I would have been good.....trade a little....grow a little.....spend free time with loved ones....maybe a little fun here and there....new CD's here and there?..playing a little....well......

The worst part is.....I could have had done that at any point I wanted up to a yr or so ago.....and now have to build up again......But, again....the lessons learned and changes....well....makes me think that all this "had" to happen to/for me....and maybe this was the only way for me to change a lot of things, thinking, etc......

Is the above relevant?......is there a reason I am sharing it?

I guess only the ones who will get something from it can answer that

Maybe if I heard and was reminded of these things 2 yrs ago I'd be somewhere in a studio, hanging out by a pool.......(But, no....in truth I wouldn't have......this situation.....these problems were necessary and destined to happen...because 2 yrs ago I didn't value many things the way I do today only from those problems , so....(more food for thought....)

Wouldn't share it if I didn't think it was important ....

Note: The above is after having more bad financial news/impact last 48hrs...., but, feeling a new sense of relief, calm, inner peace......ie: There's no fuckin way I;m going to be hurting for long, no matter what happens.....and,I thank god...........makes it a lot easier to laugh at terrible news ...

Will build right back up, 10 times stronger, 10 times wiser, 10 times better.....

So....in the end...I'm thankful of my trials and tribulations...Getting hit every direction.....loss.......losing things which were important to me...Best thing that's ever happened to me ....

Best thing that's ever happened to me ...

 

[GroBoy2000]

Well man, I absolutely appreciate you sharing. Just wanted to say so. Can't add much of course. I've been in a bit of a long 'rough patch', but making some things harder of myself too, moody and brooding far too long. Reading what you wrote, felt reassuring, reminded me of what side I'm on, where i'm at and what I can truly do. Much appreciated brother.

edit: The unit you linked was far more what I'd like to have/spend. Looks like very easy straightforward. And I'm starting to really like the idea of the stagger. 2 ballast, 4k lights, but still the 1k draw? Is that right? Anyway, sounds like good opportunity.

Yeah the SoA show, true, a good bit not 'real', right, but a good show. Started first episode of breaking bad yesterday, and I can't wait to get more into that. But I've been slammed, and not even making any money, losing it, lol, but, will get on, can work out, and know that right around christmas/new years, incoming.

 

[Julian]

Well man, I absolutely appreciate you sharing. Just wanted to say so. Can't add much of course. I've been in a bit of a long 'rough patch', but making some things harder of myself too, moody and brooding far too long. Reading what you wrote, felt reassuring, reminded me of what side I'm on, where i'm at and what I can truly do. Much appreciated brother.

No prob, but, you gotta shake that shit off man.. (moody, brooding)....I mean, yeah, sure, I have my bad days....we all do.....non stop pressure and such ...had to be at your best 24/7/365, but, you recognize it for what it is.....you spare other people the exposure to it....and you keep moving forward.....I don't hesitate to let people know I'm having a less than spectacular day.....crabby, moody, stuff on my mind, and, goes from there....I just consider all those things "moments of weakness".....we all have em, but, trick is to see (and use) them for what they are.....just a moment....

edit: The unit you linked was far more what I'd like to have/spend. Looks like very easy straightforward. And I'm starting to really like the idea of the stagger. 2 ballast, 4k lights, but still the 1k draw? Is that right?

1. No....2 ballast you could be running 8k. (2 ballast staggering 4 lights, 4 lights per room, 8k total.)
2.1k draw would be 4k total, 2-2k flip flopped and staggered. 1 ballast could run 4k.

Notef course I think it suits itself better to multiple set ups...as greater overlapping and coverage. 2k, say 4 x 8, would of course have less coverage than 4, than 6, and so on.....

3. Was just discussing with someone recently....cost, while, yes, initial funds required, is in the end pennies....if one would break down the math from even 12 months, and benefit, etc......would come to pennies the longer you go, and, equipment?...well.....life on many things....well...sure you get the point..(I have lights and ballasts and such almost 25yrs old in use to this day......have welcomed people to check serial numbers to date some of them ......If one would factor in all points..(initial cost, per plant for outs, then for in's....I mean.....the cost is nothing at all.......at all....

Equipment as far as I am concerned...is priceless once secured....(Topic was on table as I was making recent "shopping lists" , which sent someone right into shock ......and, despite a fairly high number......(to them...), I mean....the breakdown was would be 30% of first batch(es)......or, 12 months and tight?..5% per batch......24 months use?.....2.5%......and, as above.....the total life of equipment? (which cannot really even be estimated...) I mean.....if talking in use for 10 years....could probably be averaged to like.....1/2 z-1 z for every 25lbs ....so....

4. Always buy for future....compatibility....expansion.....etc....

Yeah the SoA show, true, a good bit not 'real', right, but a good show. Started first episode of breaking bad yesterday, and I can't wait to get more into that. But I've been slammed, and not even making any money, losing it, lol, but, will get on, can work out, and know that right around christmas/new years, incoming.

Breaking bad great show, and, yes, a few stupid little moments, but, feeds into point.....ie: Someone new and clean walking into such.....which of course, even with this game....we could all predict wouldn't be problem free

Great show.....haven't met anyone who didn't love it.....(1st season was pilot...only 6-7 episodes.....2nd season full, much better than the first. Currently, it's going on 3rd season (To start whenever).Good show....many are surprised how good....(Depends what ones preferences were before.....for Wire fans?....well....everything falls short, etc....so.....) SoA good show though, I like it....(and, again, not watching it when airs...catching it later, straight through, no commercials now, so.....)

 

[Maxyeild]

what happen to all the pics in this thread?

 

[dazednconfused]

where are julia's pictures.....where are the AF fields of 1000s??
alot of off-topic indoor talk...

 

[Julian]

, but, seriously....you know what's really funny? ....

People who offer nothing.......provide nothing......produce nothing......and feel comfortable behaving as above... (and worse yet, with not even the originality of a 5yr old.....I can see it now.....sitting behind your screen, sipping your juice box saying "I called him Julia, did you see, ha ha"......)

Your intention is obviously along the lines of annoying me.....offending me........

I'm assuming you really didn't give it that much thought before going there......because I can certainly go there if you really like....although it would make little difference in the end as just another handle......(one will also recall many similar posts, which have since dissappeared, as will the above most likely.....)

Or we could go this way:
You produce evidence you have grown a single plant,and had a single successful run of any size. (Could be the 1300w tent you have been talking about for over a year.....how about some of those outdoors......with the Urea (Hint for people who this is ....)

Now is good for me.

You feel free to walk in here and demand something of me?

I demand it of you. Now is fine.

The other matters?....of no concern.....as your not welcome here to begin with, but, we'll be waiting for you to produce since it was you who wanted to go there in the first place....

No other replies....nothing else is of interest, and will be ignored. A link is fine.

Balls in your court. (My court, my rules)

 

[antimatter]

Ive seen the staggered 4k before, it was done for heat reasons by a grower but with 3x3 footprints under each light so not sure what a 4x4 would do but rock hard buds..they yielded pretty low but I think that had to do with the strain and old bulbs + feeding really light.. rock hardbuds tells me it worked.

 

[Julian]

Well.......it's been done for years, and actually saw it first in your neighborhood, so...seems better suited to larger, multiple layouts......for coverage and such.....

Of course, all a big factor.....strain, feedings, bulbs (Just replaced a couple myself somewhere and went far too long ....), also medium, method, etc.....ie: What was the above, etc....

Rock hard says it all ....

My issue more power issue.....once first one(s) come in, going to keep an eye on weight (which I never really have..), and, those numbers (and product) will of course tell the story.....thinking of going 6's....still not sure...have to get in spaces and measure, etc, see what I have to work with (I have an idea......but, you know...need to know exactly)....

Have some other ideas also, as, going to be working with cold spaces pretty soon, so....I have a couple ideas...rooms within rooms, exterior lung(s), etc, etc.....we'll see....definitely CO2...rooms also going to be staggered in itself (Thought of 4-4k's, timing them out to every 2 weeks coming in....been looking through quicker things also...(strains....something decent on the quicker side would be nice)....

We'll see....have been on it....slowly but surely......still watching the calender right now and have to wrap up this season....(thinking 3 weeks or so going to pull everything....), but, spaces open and ready to go......would love to do a 8/16/32....and could use the money, but, don't have a spot I could pull that much juice at the moment.....(and 6's on the 4/8/16 would only be a 10k basically....1k's would work better also regarding the heat issues (cold space)

(Have though been giving more thought to a 6/12/24....which I think would lessen the impact.....better coverage and overlapping, etc...but that would have to be 6's........still working through it....and will be until go time...

Yeah man.....old bulbs....ya never really know till you change em ...(know actually how much loss....recent ones I took a look and knew, but, until you change em, well .....)

What's your verdict on the AF's man....how'd they turn out for you and what would you do different?....

 

[antimatter]

Check out this setup 730 lights 11,520 plants, 2 1.2 years of stolen power = to $400,000+ ...

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/RC...arijuana+growing+operation/1980358/story.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeLP6AQkB10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voro5g5B_ew&feature=related

Couple things I noticed
- very efficient use of space
- sog lol whoa so many plants should of ran trees.. but then would need veg room
- they used tie straps and hose claps whoa must be gang funded lol
- holy ballasts batman where are they
- don't think I saw any Co2 being used
- not much for supplies being used other then the little rock wool cubes and nutes
- noone charged yet?? lol
- stole huge amounts of power for 2 1/2 years what the hell BChydro, somebody made alot of money and is laughing there ass off that they never used a generator

 

[Kushed]

where are julia's pictures.....where are the AF fields of 1000s??
alot of off-topic indoor talk...

Just came to stir the pot eh? If you've bothered to follow the thread or read any of it, which obviously you havnt....then you would have seen all of "julias" pictures, stop hating hater. And the indoor talk relates to this thread, just as all the other topics relate.



Now anyways julia jk lol, but what are your thoughts on how much power a house can safely run without raising problems with anyone? Im looking at this 3bedroom 2700sq ft house in the boonies that I wanna do something in.

Do you follow any general rule of thumb when it comes to these things? I know theres lots of appliances, electronics, tv etc that use alot of juice. And Im not really concerned about the power usage due to the lights or anything, but I wanna know how much power I can pump out before suspicions would arise somewhere?

 

[Ipsissimus]

check out those transformers. impressed with how clean it is. on that scale, you're going to have tons of plants no matter what. I don't think you could do is much more efficiently. I still fail to comprehend how the power company doesn't notice that much of a "leak". what happened to the oh shit! tunnel?

 

[antimatter]

check out those transformers. impressed with how clean it is. on that scale, you're going to have tons of plants no matter what. I don't think you could do is much more efficiently. I still fail to comprehend how the power company doesn't notice that much of a "leak". what happened to the oh shit! tunnel?

You would almost think that electrical wasn't the reason for warrant and somebody on the inside was covering it up..

 

[zapatoloco]

Old bulbs are a pain...its good to mark them at the base. You can scratch out the numbers to mark the date of first use or but you can just put a notch for every run you use them for. A light meter is also very useful when sorting through boxes of old bulbs.

 

[Julian]

Check out this setup 730 lights 11,520 plants, 2 1.2 years of stolen power = to $400,000+ ...

- noone charged yet?? lol

- stole huge amounts of power for 2 1/2 years what the hell BChydro, somebody made alot of money and is laughing there ass off that they never used a generator

Not sure if saw it but most likely.....lot of us stay up on busts and cases and details .....

730k goes down.........not sure anyones laughing about that....ya know? (But then again, since they probably have 7 more......maybe they are .....) People tend to forget......when large things go down......there are heads rolling somewhere, and..........that's not an expression.....Always my first thought when I hear something bad.....Something established goes down?.....most likely people did also along the line....

I've never gotten too upset about losing things, no matter the size as long as everyone's (including me ) safe.....

Lost another medium one this week myself......(several signs of activity in twice as many days.....leaning towards thieves though....all details seem to indicate someone waiting it out.....so.....has been written off for maybe 30 days.......an eye(s) being kept on spots....and will go from there.....only reason losses annoy me right now is lost quite a few this season, and, could really use it......otherwise couldn't care less.....(and actually if all in's get rolling....will get started on next year, get to work and last 2 bad seasons just a distant memory hopefully......

Lot of very serious changes in my world.

Freedom and a momentary cut in salary beats all other alternatives.....just hurts/pisses you off a little when you need it (of course when everything is fine and you don't need it?.....you never have problems ....)

Such is life.

Just came to stir the pot eh? If you've bothered to follow the thread or read any of it, which obviously you havnt....then you would have seen all of "julias" pictures, stop hating hater. And the indoor talk relates to this thread, just as all the other topics relate.

Fuckin trolls.......they're like the bottle kids but with no bottles ...(Canadians and TPB fans will get that .....)

Used to be.......we had a much better class of trolls........nowadays?....eh.....what's the world coming to when "Julia" is the best ya can do.......

Really does amaze me though (still) what kind of person uses our limited, valuable time in such a matter......nothing gained, nothing offered....

I can guarantee .....I've been called worse ....

(The true amusement comes in who some really are .....)

Going to be 10 fuckin years almost I'm around.....and, even if not posting......well...might be in coco forum...maybe design....maybe greenhouse....used to be more security......you kinda know whose who



Bottle kids without the bottles....nothing more....pop in, toss nothing, then scurry off to their juice box...(or real handle ...)

Now anyways julia jk lol, but what are your thoughts on how much power a house can safely run without raising problems with anyone? Im looking at this 3bedroom 2700sq ft house in the boonies that I wanna do something in.

Do you follow any general rule of thumb when it comes to these things? I know theres lots of appliances, electronics, tv etc that use alot of juice. And Im not really concerned about the power usage due to the lights or anything, but I wanna know how much power I can pump out before suspicions would arise somewhere?

Lot of spoken "rules of thumb".....and, I don't really think so....ie: 1k per bedroom, etc.....shit like that.....(using that formula, would be 3k for the above, which could be almost a 4/8/16 if 6's......)....

I've actually spent the last several weeks reviewing several dozen electric bills from large metro suburban homes...(here's something of interest ), and, the average usage came out (when worked down to an hourly average from total monthly) to between 2k-4k. (hourly draw/daily/month total=2k-4k an hour...let's round to 1500-3000kwh a month.

Vary the neighborhood?, could be less.......could be more?....

The you get to set up (living, vacant?......which I am against btw unless done right......which is semi living...which when younger, I did many places, and did things such as eat out, do laundry out, etc, etc.......ie: fridge was unplugged, minimal use, clothes, as said done elsewhere, etc........funny note: For reasons other than expense, I've actually hung bedding out to dry this summer.....fuckin loved it and pretty quick also......(alternative was to pack all up, send out to cleaners, etc...just wasn't in the mood....was in a cleaning mood, so....)

They say the spikes a potential issue also....but, one has to remember, pulling utilities most likely would fall after another event....but, as with many things in this/these games, I mean, 20 "small" things put together....so.....you work on all the "little things".....so you flip it....better productivity, and fizes that little issue......(I also decide fuck the digitals....I'll keep waiting and use what I have on hand in storage and will cut budget down slightly....since a flip, draw difference isn't going to matter anyway......which goes back to the above (trips during op)......can't be going for bulbs, returns, replacements, etc....just can't.........ie: That one trip could be the one trip ...

So.....again.....the area might be different....if buying, can always ask for 12 months of utility bills, which is, in fact done not always, but, quite a bit with people....(I've looked at homes where they already had them as part of their little package to look at......)

Depends on size, area, etc..(season also).....if was in budget, I'd just be going affluent, 12,000 sq. ft., live in, and 8/16/32 with 1k's .....

Then there is the aspect of working it up....(slow decreasing of existing and increasing of op over several months.......ie: Instead of doubling/tripling in a single moment from all previous.....) Which I've done here and there in past....

I'm not too skittish about live in's if everything is right.....wouldn't do it now....just because have been in my place for a while and, you know....I like my pies , but......given the chance.....fuck....I'd upgrade and run for 24 months in estate property (if numbers could all come right in the end.....)

Also, spring is on the way....and don't think going to have a 3rd bad season in a row .....Just don't see that happening , so......between in's, and outs on the way (and have a smaller (1000' x 20' or so) AF spot for spring confirmed , so.......have spot set up to start running stock shortly (Really interested in Chem/OG AF)...

I'd say everyone has a different comfort level....different rules of thumbs......Mine?...well, I just went through a load of utility bills from an area, so....2-4k hourly is average breakdown....so....either going to go 2/4/8k/1k's (2k+) or a 4/8/16k-6's (2,400+) in that area....which should bring my site to high end of average...That's my comfort level right now, that specific spot.....

Deleted some....will share in future...have some interesting things going to be going on......

You would almost think that electrical wasn't the reason for warrant and somebody on the inside was covering it up..

730k leaves quite a bit of room for expenses ......

Everyone loves an envelope.

US most anti envelope, but, still lots of room which grows exponentially the farther out one gets ...

Old bulbs are a pain...its good to mark them at the base. You can scratch out the numbers to mark the date of first use or but you can just put a notch for every run you use them for. A light meter is also very useful when sorting through boxes of old bulbs.

Yeah....I've got far too much shit stored...probably went along the lines of pulled them out, fire em up, they look okay, so use them...but the per batch mark a good idea....I'm much better with that stuff than I used to be....(Mark everything now, didn't before, cause when ongoing?.....eh, not a problem.....when live and ongoing?...your right in it, but, hard to remember when was what when any time frame passes......even a 1yr or 2 later...not going to remember when they were changed out, how many runs, etc, especially when running....you know...a couple things ......)