MASSIVE INDOOR COMMERCIAL GROW

[Soft Smoke]

Financial Issues

Financial Issues

Hi, Folks!

I'd like to address a few points regarding financial affairs related to growing...

1) Liquid cash. Liquid cash is difficult to hide long term. At some point you MUST show a means of obtaining said cash or it will be assumed in any court of law that the money is tainted. Small amounts, say in the 1k to 3k per month area, are easy to hide. A family of four spends that on basic staple every month. When you start talking about real cash in the 5k to 10k permonth area, you've got a problem. Legitimate earings leave a paper trail. Big Brother has seen to that. Partnerships with the financial database companies like Transunion, Equifax, Experian, Visa, Mastercard, Discover, etc have enabled the LEOs to build a National Financial Database. This database is served by mainframe computers with Terrabyte capacities that do nothing but crunch numbers 24/7365. The really twisted thing about this is that without a warrant, this database can be sifted to provide amazingly accurate details about your earning and spending habits. This database is used constantly for financial forensic investigations by the Feds and by the State Attorneys. It will not alert them to suspicious activity but it WILL provide them with ammunition once you are under investigation.

2) Taxes. Many people think that by paying taxes on tainted cash that it is now clean and usable...WRONG! Tax evasion is only one of the tools in a Fed's toolbox when persuing "criminals". Tax sheltering, Wire fraud, mail fraud, and bank fraud are a few more offenses that carry BIG penalties.

3) Businesss Fronts. This is a TV myth. There is no such thing as a "cash only" business. You may not accept checks or cards, but you must still be able to provide evidence of transactions in an audit. Let's say you were a auto detailer. You accept only cash as payment and you show on your taxes that you grossed 100k an paid taxes on it like a model citizen. An aggressive prosecutior will request an IRS audit and this is what will happen:

"Mr. Smith, please demonstrate to my satisfaction that you have a legitimate client base, inventory of supplies, and witnesses to your activities that establish the gross revenues you claim."

"Ummm....."

4) Personal lifestyle. Many people who acquire large amounts of cash spend it on items that clash with their apparent means. They drive a lexus but live in a middle class rental home. The own rare items of small size but high value, like high end electronics, art, and jewelry.

5)Credit. Living on cash does not create a standard credit file. This is a red flag during forensic investigations and audits. People fit generally into loose but definable categories in a financial database. If you stand out this is a definite reason to dig deeper.

6) Mortgages. It is very easy to get a mortgage. Just as in a any businesss, there are persons (brokers and bankers) who will do nearly anything to obtain a commission. However, just try to successfully deny a link between the money used for the mortgage and the proceeds from a drug sale and you will be my hero.

The point I'm hammering away at here is that you can take as many steps as you'd like to clean your money or save yourself once under investigation, but the bottom line is simple: If you come under scrutiny from an aggressive prosecutor with a hard on for you, you are fucked. This especially hols true when your fate is held in the hands of twelve "peers" who would love to drag down one of their own who climbed too high.
Secrecy and discretion is your ONLY protection. Don't be a paranoid android, but be aware. They are looking for you. Your friends and neighbors will rat you out. The Leo's will lie and cheat to get a conviction. A jury will fuck you for no other reason than you are inconveniencing them by forcing them to sit jury duty. And if you are a minority......

Discretion. Secrecy. Commmon sense. DON'T BE GREEDY!

 

[yamaha_1fan]

well I'll argue that you CAN put up a business and clean the money. Thats why I stated coin laundries are perfect. all cash, no client list to keep etc. Now obviously you have to actually have the coin laundry. But who knows, it may make some money on its own. even if it breaks even, you can still funnel money through it.

A small neighborhood bar might work too

Obviously theres only so much that each business can funnel. Maybe 20-50% of gross revenue can be added? Obviously a laundrymat cant be taking in $5M a year. It would depend on several factors.

But to claim to have a business and not actually have one? Yeah that wont work in criminal court.

I already stated a detailing business, lawn care, dog walking, etc are OK for determining income for a mortgage but probably wont hold up in a criminal investigation for the reasons you stated, no client list, no inventory, etc.

And the truth is, if your finances are being investigated, you probably are already in deep shit

 

[Julian]

I think the problem with such a topic is it is never as cut and dry and some believe it to be, and, I think most do not understand the bigger picture. From my understanding, nuances of the entire process were discussed.

For example, one would never start a "side business" to establish themselves, and, continue with larger amounts. It's a natural progression in life, for anyone, anywhere, anytime.

You may start a small side business to enable you to declare what is needed to begin the path towards what it is you want to do. Then, you may use that small business to get into something larger and more established, and, something that you actually benefit from and can contribute to your future. Then, in the process, hopefully one has been working, or, furthering their education and also built credit in the process, and, as far as "successfully denying the link between ill gotten proceeds and purchases of real property" , well, assuming I believe 100%'s were discussed, and, holding/renting properties, it would seem to be it would be documented that there is no link. (Example: Job/credit/closing costs/tenant, any proceeds used for repairs)

I would disagree with the above on many levels.....

 

[GorillaGrower]

I think monty had some good advice... but something was a little bullshit... how could any one who owned 50+ 4x8 tables not know a simple answer to a indoor aircirculation question. ..

 

[Julian]

Well, I would say that it's simple enough to arrive at a cft total of any given space, (simple mathematics) and, also simple enough to know the cfm of your fans,(on the specs), someone not well versed in hvac might not know about things like pressure issues and that it might be better to run multiples depending on spaces hot spots, and, of course, sometimes (always) many spaces require "tweaking" as you go along from batch to batch.

He doesn't know how to wire a panel, ballasts, and a generator either.

Let's not forget, over the past several years, he's displayed pics of grows up to 5500 plants quite often to many, and, far back, larger indoors on OG to many also. The last, most recent clearly showing 1100 in the same space. I would say over the years he's easily displayed over 25,000 cumulative.

 

[pumpkin2006]

The main thing about a massive grow to think about is: why are you doing it? Sure money, but why THAT much money? Do you really need to make millions upon millions?

I know it theoretical, so its not targeted towards you. Just saying, someone who does this is obviously greedy. All I need in life is my woman, my dog, a secure place to live with the ability to have fun with my hobbies and grow me food/smoke.

There's no soul in a mass production like this; crappy trimming, crappy quality weed, probably large amounts of mold that isn't caught and then people smoke it. Theres studies of the different kinds of bacteria found in commerical weed, one of them being botulism.

I'm not opposed to someone growing 10-20 pounds every couple months to allow themselves a secure life, but producing hundreds and hundreds every couple months is just greed.

Karma or not, there will be some sort of payback for that much greed.

Peace on the mean streets and keep your life neat.

 

[Julian]

There's no soul in a mass production

I would say to anyone who feels that way, try it once

One batch

I think most would find during that one batch, how much soul it actually does require...

Many people talk about "No love".......

Well, I would say it's that very aspect which drives people to it..... (ie: Most who end up "commercial" started much smaller and it's a culmination of many, many years doing it)

jmo.

Edit: One must remember also that with a larger project, with several people involved, ongoing maintenance, supplies, overhead, that any final number (per batch) gets reduced to probably 25% of the starting number...

I would also say that he prided himself greatly on the quality he turned out, and, it meant a lot to him. (And maybe throw in how he charged a fraction of what he could so that everyone was always taken care of, and that his partners constantly teased him about his fanatical searches and immediate disposal of anything and everything with even the slightest hint of mold....)

 

[pumpkin2006]

Ya I get that you guys that do it have a soul and that you feel a certain way, that bud has no love though and if it does its a 5 minute rape in the back-ally with a couple drunk college boys. Graphic enough?

 

[GorillaGrower]

Well, I would say that it's simple enough to arrive at a cft total of any given space, (simple mathematics) and, also simple enough to know the cfm of your fans,(on the specs), someone not well versed in hvac might not know about things like pressure issues and that it might be better to run multiples depending on spaces hot spots, and, of course, sometimes (always) many spaces require "tweaking" as you go along from batch to batch.

He doesn't know how to wire a panel, ballasts, and a generator either.

Let's not forget, over the past several years, he's displayed pics of grows up to 5500 plants quite often to many, and, far back, larger indoors on OG to many also. The last, most recent clearly showing 1100 in the same space. I would say over the years he's easily displayed over 25,000 cumulative.

wow.. I stand corrected. It just seems like you said.. how could anyone "not" know those problems and the fixes if they had done that..but.. does anyone have links or were/did they just get taken down now/ recently? It would be cool to check out the minis he was talking about.

 

[pumpkin2006]

Most growers (small) know a lot about equipment, electricity and simple environmental controls. It doesn't make sense that someone who has grown thousands of plants would not know anything about that.

 

[jimjay]

I think if he was around, he would have a very interesting story to tell regarding a recent series and turn of events, and, a lesson to accompany it.

To bad Full Monty isnt around. At least in spirit he is.....

 

[Julian]

Actually I said how would one have an in depth knowledge unless one was well versed on those aspects. (And he never claimed to be an electrician, nor an hvac tech)

He was never in charge of set ups. He was part of a 3 man show. Partner #2 was spaces and work, partner #3 was set ups. Planning, prep, equipment/shopping lists, general day to day running was his role, but, set up was dedicated to another, and his instructions would simply be what to buy, where to put/layout, and let him know when fully tested and space ready to be filled. (And prep was at a veg center that he maintained) "Mechanic" would frequently inform him certain things would have to be done a different way due to different issues, and, he would say "so, do it, and let me know when ready".

One who has read his posts can probably arrive at a fairly good idea at how he ran and handled things (ie: Manager/owner)

 

[pumpkin2006]

Interesting, not how I would want my "team" ran. What if one of them leaves or dies (god forbid) or is arrested. The growing guy can't fix the vent problem so all the plants die and the fix it guy can't grow the plants so they all die, just seems like a really unreliable way to do things.

 

[Julian]

Mechanic was involved in no other aspects, therefore, no risks, and, arrangement quite generous. I would not call him completely uninformed.

More a lack of interest about something he has no need, or desire to learn, since someone specifically to handle it.

He does not do the wiring, hvac, or plumbing in his buildings either

This is a man who has quite a laundry list of things to do in his daily life, (family, business's, work) , which wiring diagrams fall at the bottom of that list when one has basically a GC at your disposal 24/7 to carry out whatever you wish, as that is his sole job.....

He and "the mechanic", have been together 25 years I believe.

 

[Fast_Pine]

I think monty had some good advice... but something was a little bullshit... how could any one who owned 50+ 4x8 tables not know a simple answer to a indoor aircirculation question. ..

I will vouch for monty..He is the real deal. He is the glue that holds a large opp togeather..The leader , in a way.

Ive spent time going over issues with him, and he is a very smart guy...

 

[Julian]

I know he thought very highly of you Pine......

Very highly. Truly.

The fan issue is not a matter of inability to calculate (as he had more numbers in head than citibank ), but more a matter of an hour long discussion with tech about: Do we run more to lighten workload and would that result in better overall circulation anyway (price not being an issue)? Do we wait to establish hotspots? How easy and quick to change locations if we need to? What if we want or need to increase flow later or alter exchange or spots? How quick and easy? What will that do to pressure, if anything?, etc, etc, etc, etc..yada,yada,yada,yada......(All would vary depending on space, location (temps, in and out, concrete or not, LP generators or open exchange filtered, etc, etc)

If one was to try and accurately imagine how limited time, in general, is, they might have a better understanding why he did things the way he did.

How can he spend a week (or more) setting up a single space,(also time studying how to) when he also has a family,(4 households) several business's/work to run, and also maintain a veg center, while also running outdoor projects also from spring to fall occasionally...

The only way to accomplish such is delegation, and co-operation.Partners, assistants (per say), "employee's", for lack of a better word.....This was a man who at one point was running almost 50 different ops. (Obviously money was not the driving force)

Try doing that "hands on". Just keeping such supplied is more than most imagine (Clones ready to go, on schedule for many different projects, on a continual basis). He liked that role best. He just liked/wanted to grow, not spend the little time he had on diagrams, specs, doing set ups, etc. He worked with the plants. He was the actual grower, everyone else just following his instructions and getting a piece from his "pie".

 

[Guest]

Julian, you obviously know FullMonty well. I'd almost think you were him under another name Either way, the man obviously knew what he was talking bout. Respect to FullMonty! His posts and experience will be missed!

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Julian, you obviously know FullMonty well. I'd almost think you were him under another name Either way, the man obviously knew what he was talking bout. Respect to FullMonty! His posts and experience will be missed!

you think if he was posting under a new name, he wouldnt want someone pointing it out

 

[pumpkin2006]

Ok so you obviously knew him extremely well, if anything your probably his tech guy that you've been talking about.

Anyways, I don't get it, if he just wanted to grow plants why didn't he blow up his garage and have fun with it. You would not have 50 grow spots if all you like was growing plants. In fact, if you loved growing plants you would grow less, instead of many. Money is obviously the motivating factor.

 

[Julian]

Couple smileys doesn't make me Monty. (although, I gotta say, the handle, avatar, and title is well along his sense of humor, and I'm sure he would find it very, V E R Y funny ). (The name "Julian", and, something that accompanies it, refers to a private joke )

Edit: Money is only a motivating factor when you have none. If you do?, then why?