MASSIVE INDOOR COMMERCIAL GROW

[yamaha_1fan]

Holy crap.

I agree to keep things moving and hit and run. But with the money invested in this grow, i can see why they kept it. There are alot of logistics involved here. Finding the cave and building ahouse on it. I think most GC's would be like uhh, dude you cant build a house on yop of a cave. Then you have the whole issue of prepping the cave with the hydraulic doors etc.

very cool setup. But with all that money invested and on the line, they couldnt buy some generators? DUMB DUMB DUMB

is it me or did those plants seem very tall and thin? is that cause the lights were so high?

And what happened to the escape hatch? why didnt that work? If they were using their cameras, and had the big hydraulic door closed, they should have been able to bail

 

[Julian]

I thought I would throw out a quick suggestion on the trays Jmasters got up there.

the trays are underbed containers usually found in lowes, home depot, walmart..

I would suggest if you are going to use these.. make sure you either dump the water out after watering which means moving 100s ... or grab at some 2x4 florescent light grids while your at home depot... dont have a pic but there what goes up in ceilings in office buidlings.. cut to fit.. and you dont have to worry about whether your water in the tray will dissipate on its own.

If ya got one tray.. or you only are keeping outside in a dry enviro.. you wont need it. but if ya got multiple trays.. it could save alot of hardwork from being destroyed to waterlogged no 02 to the roots.

No,No,No my friend.....

1.The great thing about those is they have lids, so, for transport, can be loaded and stacked, many at the same time.(The above stretched a little because there was just too many (trays) going at the same time. Usually, lights very low and they stay low/wide, and can be covered with lids.

2.The larger number you have, the more the excess is used. After established, I know those were given about 1" of full strength nutes (FN) daily. They "wick" and, keep the pots moist so by the time ready for transplant, roots are busting through. (Many know that person favors peat pots by the case)

3.He uses for starting many,many,many of those trays. Swears by them. Makes starting and transport of large numbers as simple as possible.

The overall view is that they do not have holes, watertight, have lids for transport and stacking, (There were 4 more in back seat but with lids and covered, so why take pic of containers)heavy enough to be able to carry larger loads without a problem (buckling, etc), and, last but not least wheels for arranging as you please fairly simply and quickly

4.The set up and colling I would say is dependent on the "what and where".

 

[GorillaGrower]

Nice.. thanks for the better tip Jules.. again.. it makes sense to use peet pots and an easy wick is created .. and yeah the top will fit better. and no prints on cups.. too ... but the peat pots will only give you a certain size..

like you say certain places demand certain techniques.. sometimes its works well to use long tall cups 32-64 and plant em deep leaving alot of the stem in the ground.. another way to guarantee strong solid solid starts in places where... if possible makes sense to put in larger stronger specimens. tailor the situation.. size of plant.. to where it goes. no?

If ya can.. maybe you got some pictures of some friends minis you could post. I think many people here missed it the first time around.

 

[Julian]

Nice.. thanks for the better tip Jules.. again.. it makes sense to use peet pots and an easy wick is created .. and yeah the top will fit better. and no prints on cups.. too ... but the peat pots will only give you a certain size..

Well, the peat pots get a bad rap, but, this is, of course, because no one understands them, and, knows how to use them. If you just water from the top, they will of course, dry out, and, become rock hard (literally). You either do a submersion (pot) when watering, all air bubbles out, or, when smaller especially, you just throw 1/2" in the bottom of your trays so they wick it. (From my understanding he has debated this with many, many times, but, pics prove otherwise, and, if you wait too long, they literally become like net pots (with up to 6" of roots coming out of cup...

They also come in many sizes, from like a 1.5" all the way to I think about 6", so, all depends what your doing and want to use but I personally, as others do, like the 2-4" ones best (because, if kept moist like one should, you will reach a point where if you go to long, they will literally just start disintegrating (after all, they are merely pressed peat....)

like you say certain places demand certain techniques.. sometimes its works well to use long tall cups 32-64 and plant em deep leaving alot of the stem in the ground.. another way to guarantee strong solid solid starts in places where... if possible makes sense to put in larger stronger specimens. tailor the situation.. size of plant.. to where it goes. no?

Well, you always want to (outdoors) "sink em", as, you could plant, and, heavy rain next day (you always want to plant when rains coming to get em going good), and, nice, heavy rain, if plants not "sunk" a little, might knock em right over...

Another reason for preferred sizes is, of course, the containers (transport/starting).Can't cover them if too large. While it's a fairly funny site to see people walking around carrying large trays of plants, not too safe, ya know?

Edit: Rule of thumb is always the more established the plant, the greater chance of success, of course. The above pic were actually not what they usually would be, but, there was a rush in that specific situation to get any and everything out quick. Usually, those would have gotten another week or so.

If ya can.. maybe you got some pictures of some friends minis you could post. I think many people here missed it the first time around.

He didn't have any mini pics up for a while anyway. The most recent areas worked allowed for no limit on numbers and no size limits. I know he had another (mini project) planned up until recently,(2 acre valley spot) but, I feel it's safe to say that will not move forward at this point. (At least for now/this season, but, who knows...Since very little lead time needed, he still has a couple months left )

 

[DaDank]

Abusing Mother...

Abusing Mother...

I was wondering if someone could share some guidelines on how many offsring a single Mother plant can handle. As in, how many cuttings can a lady of a certain size (& age?) let go of before she herself suffers.
Thanks...

 

[Greenjag]

Quite a surprising amount if the mother is mature and has been milked a good number of times. I used to be able to strip up to 100 cuttings every 2 weeks off my old coca cola mothers and they delivered the goods for three years before I put them out to pasture.

Ok, they were pretty small cuttings but they still became big plants in time. I never noticed the strain or yields weakening over time but I was too lazy to renew my mothers anyway.

My indicas never seemed to make very good mothers, just became shapeless and not very bushy, but the coca cola ended up looking like a christmas tree with a zillion shoots.

Ideally though, you should just be taking the strongest leader cuttings off your mother. I was always just looking for turnover.

 

[GorillaGrower]

There's no set amount you can take off a plant before its done... it either recovers or it doesn't. But the usual rule of thumb is never take off more than half of the foliage if you want to continue fast growth.. with out stunting. Now you could strip the mother.. and it will come back over and over.. its just % taken off of it, root size, lights given to it, genetics... will determine how long till the plant will have a generous offering again.

Like.. hmm FM says.. you make the situation fit.. if you need a huge on going supply.. you use big mothers, lots of light, and cut back the plants only 50 % ..

if you keep your exposure to a minimum.. you could use feminized seed.. grow to mothers,, and clone till you rape the plant.

you can do anyway in between.

Actually Greenjag your doing it right.. the leader cuttings do work well depending on the situation.. but if you look at any book on mj.. they'll tell you the middle of the tree on down is where the hormones are in the right balance for root development. (matters more in a RW or similar medium)

Although in a ezclone enviroment.. it doesn't matter. Anything in will root.. even a shoe!


Hey julian.. could you give us all here some great ideas for keeping houses 'separate' ?

and im posting to here, to hear what you have to say.. not to piss ya off.. I think everyone wants to hear the why s when you explain stuff!

 

[XGovernor]

You could write a book with all the information in this thread. Goooood lord.

 

[pico]

actually I think the Ez cloner is garbage. Has many problems and is far from foolproof.

 

[Julian]

Like.. hmm FM says.. you make the situation fit.. if you need a huge on going supply.. you use big mothers, lots of light, and cut back the plants only 50 % ..if you keep your exposure to a minimum.. you could use feminized seed.. grow to mothers,, and clone till you rape the plant.

Nah, his MO was shave em down completely, so, maybe grow out 10-20 fems, turn those into 2-4,000+, then, hold back a bunch (20-50) out of those for next round(s).(45-60 days+rooting, extras/overage covering any other needs.) He never had a 24/7/365 dedicated space. (Otherwise would have maintained long term elites and such.) His rule of thumb was 60 days,200+ each one.

He's a big fan of fem seed though, cuts your lead time, and, I 100% agree. (Some would argue cost, but, in bulk, considering the output, it's really a minor cost in the whole scheme of things.)

All depends what you want to do and how and what you think is best to maintain efficiency, etc.

Hey julian.. could you give us all here some great ideas for keeping houses 'separate' ?

and im posting to here, to hear what you have to say.. not to piss ya off.. I think everyone wants to hear the why s when you explain stuff!

Not pissed off at all. In the least. Rarely am. Sorry if ever seems such. Not the case.

Well, I can tell ya this:
1.You have a lot of people under the assumption that if they can get utilities under another name, (or fake name), one is "protected"

Well, if you get cracked in/at the house, well, so much for that theory.

2. Many people overlook that if your running many/several locations, and all in your , or another name (utilities, etc), your basically completely exposed should trouble arise. (ie: Something happens, and, lo and behold, you have 26 other properties with your, or the same name on utilities )

(This does change slightly if they are buildings, and the utilities are general for building or units, but, again, if something was to happen, and your name came up in several investigations,well, that would pretty much be that...)

Your much better having spaces leased to others and staying as far away as possible, and, of course, adhering to the general point from the start which is most people tend to focus more on what will happen if cracked , as compared to how to avoid it in the first place.

I can tell you, some? They function in a manner which is basically " Nothing IS going to happen, because we will prevent anything leading to that as much as possible".

I think it's been said by others before :
You are fully in control of everything you do!

You create your own problems through your own behavior.

I know "x factor" has been mentioned. Aside from the "x factor", You are 100% in control of your world, by your own actions.

Greed? Pushing the limits?

Well, the more you push, the greater the chances some problem will arise.

So........Can one work a location indefinately? Only a fool thinks so. Nothing lasts forever.

Not even you.

Have I seen and known people who killed a spot they could have longer? Absolutely.

But.

How much longer? Well, since neither you nor I know the answer to that, you going to push it? or get out ahead?

It all depends, again, on what you think you can get away with, and how. It's about money? Right?

You wouldn't sit at a crap table indefinately? Personally? I think this is no different, and, I think that analogy displays the true discipline needed in such matters.

Your not going to get away with any op forever.

Some would say it's:
"Walking between the raindrops".......

I would agree in the sense that 99.5% of all busts I have ever seen anywhere were basically the person/people's breaking rules they knew they were at the time, and trying to convince themselves "everything will be fine"....

Some would say "it's all quite Zen".

You don't want to get hit by a bus?

Don't walk in front of one!


A friend of mine , will do anything, anywhere, anytime, any numbers, and not blink an eye. Because he's just waiting to shut down before it starts. (Some argue , "everything's fine, don't be paranoid", etc, it's a great spot".)

If you can bring in enough to make it worthwhile. Yes, it is a great spot.

Of course, there would be people who talk about how they have ran spots for years and everything is fine (Hmmm...maybe like the cave above? ). All have their own opinions about how they do things, and, their own thoughts on the matters, but, the fact of the matter is: The longer you go, the greater the chance of something happening. (People get lulled into a false sense of security.)


Edit:
To continue....

Some would of course say "well, your buddy preaches all this , and, all about security, but, what about him, he's in a situation right now", and, on the surface, they would be correct in stating that, but, the fact of the matter is that he favors the "cell" approach, and, in this specific case, the effects, which they have far reaching possibilities, may turn out to be minimal, due to that aspect. It may very well save his ass in this case.

(For those who are not familiar: The "Cell" approach is one in which no single person has knowledge of everything. Only pieces and a "need to know" basis. ie: If one is responsible for a single aspect, a single location, then why would that person need to know about any others?. ie: "If your not involved, it's not your business".

So back to multiples....

Some create identifies? Worthless if caught at spot.

Some run under their own info? Might not be a problem if they packed it up when happy, but, people never do.

Run several? Your own information? Well, those locations will be easily discovered should something happen (which would from pushing it too far.)

I know many are also in disagreement with using homes for extremely large when not occupied. If you would not live there (ie: If you do not have enough faith that you would consider it, then you shouldn't be running it.)

Own /secure and lease to others? Not a bad approach but, if you show involvement, well, back to square one one again....

I have my own opinions, and, personally, if you ask me? I think people get to wrapped up in many aspects, and, forget, it's merely "extra income" for a "limited amount of time". You work, you go to school, you spend time with your family. You evolve, advance in "life". You do not base your entire life and future around it, and, from what I personally have seen, this is the downfall of most, because your approach to it determines, of course, your behavior and actions.

(ie: Whether people realize it or not, they are drawing suspicion to themselves by lack of involvement in other things....)

Meaning?
The more you interact with the world around you (neighbors, etc), the more you reduce suspicion and build relationships that would prevent a "tip" in the first place...

 

[GorillaGrower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaGrower
Like.. hmm FM says.. you make the situation fit.. if you need a huge on going supply.. you use big mothers, lots of light, and cut back the plants only 50 % ..if you keep your exposure to a minimum.. you could use feminized seed.. grow to mothers,, and clone till you rape the plant.



Nah, his MO was shave em down completely, so, maybe grow out 10-20 fems, turn those into 2-4,000+, then, hold back a bunch (20-50) out of those for next round(s).(45-60 days+rooting, extras/overage covering any other needs.) He never had a 24/7/365 dedicated space. (Otherwise would have maintained long term elites and such.) His rule of thumb was 60 days,200+ each one

Exactly.. that's what I meant.. you could have an ongoing 365 24/7 center.. or like you have been saying.. use femmed seeds, grow to moms and rape keeping time holding down.

I think your totally right about the houses.. if your stealing elec, and blowing up a house so big.. you wont live in it .. but still show up to get busted.. that does sound very dumb. But wouldn't you say the reason alot of houses aren't lived in.. is because if elec is paid.. not living in a house gives you more elec usage overhead. ie.. hot water, refrig, and all house hvac is turned off. It seems like your saying situatin is dependant? like obviously if you dont live at a house much, the house needs to be where the neibors wont be a issue ?

 

[DaDank]

Speaking of "Mother Plant"...

Speaking of "Mother Plant"...

...what's up with Mary Cheney (The Vice-President's openly gay daughter) having a baby??!!
While she may be one, I certainly hope she didn't smoke any Diesel during her pregnancy.
I, of course, wish mother and son the best of health etc.
But does the kid qualify as a clone -i.e. off-spring produced asexually?

 

[GorillaGrower]

Hey pico .. I understand you think the Ez clone is garbage.. and many other people do too!! here's the link to others with the same problem.. pay attention nobody is cleaning and using it properly. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=59210

It seems to go two ways with the EZ .. Either it works or or it DID. well if it DID at one point.. you could make it work again. question for you pico.. were you ever able to get a good run off of it when new? If NOT then your water is beyond repair (highly unlikely since well water works fantastic) ,, or you never put a cloning solution in the rez.

IF you dont use bleach to clean it,, and clonex or a similar rooting solution.. you WILL have problems guaranteed. But then again if you dont follow any way of cloning to a tee you will have the same problems. MOST are trying to use peroxide or some other alternative to clean,, most are using something other than clonex solution.

Think about it PICO EZ sells tons of these for years, botanicare and every other hydro co. has come out with one now. We have had threads for making your own on icmag and og .. do you really think its garbage.. or maybe your not using it per the directions.

Some pros might laugh at the EZ but I'm sure theres more than a few out there that realize it saves time, and produces the best starts you are going to get anyway anywhere and in less time, w/ the transplants taking faster than any other way, Vigor = success .
of course there are cons with the EZ but unless you've found one.. then dont worry about it.

 

[Guest]

actually I think its garbage too, you have to keep it perfectly clean the whole time you use it, and then after a certain amount of time you start having major failure rates. I'm not down with something that has random failure.

 

[GorillaGrower]

chodo.. did you clean it properly.. you should not have to clean it while using it.

Did you read my posts? Did you use Clonex or similar product from botanicare(that comes packaged by the way with there similar EZ product)?

I understand yours might not work.. but I ask you.. not that you had a problem.. but did you 1. use bleach to clean 2. clonex 150ml for the 120 3. wait for it to work everytime even in high temps ?

I'm seriously not trying to be a dick.. but did you go to the thread and see what everyone else is doing? I'm willing to accept it wont work for someone.. but I haven't found one person saying I use bleach and hot water, run the pump for 20 minutes, then do two more cycles with fresh water.. then fill with clonex solution.

infact if anyone wants to just get pissed about the EZ go the thread I posted instead of doing it here.. this is a great thread and doesn't need me to fukc it up! Read what everyone is doing wrong.. then before flaming me saying your ez doesn't work.. go and do what I say(the directions).. come back in ten days.. and give love.. peace

 

[Julian]

Exactly.. that's what I meant.. you could have an ongoing 365 24/7 center.. or like you have been saying.. use femmed seeds, grow to moms and rape keeping time holding down.

I think your totally right about the houses.. if your stealing elec, and blowing up a house so big.. you wont live in it .. but still show up to get busted.. that does sound very dumb. But wouldn't you say the reason alot of houses aren't lived in.. is because if elec is paid.. not living in a house gives you more elec usage overhead. ie.. hot water, refrig, and all house hvac is turned off. It seems like your saying situatin is dependant? like obviously if you dont live at a house much, the house needs to be where the neibors wont be a issue ?

I like fem seed, cut's your "lead time" to basically less than 30 days for any amount, anytime, anywhere. If you already have something going for somewhere else? Then makes no difference, but, to run something "spur of moment", can't be beat. (30 days or less vs. 3-4 months?)

Well, what I meant was something different. There's a big difference and "feel" between something where, let's say "the guy isn't around often, works a lot, still moving in, etc, etc", as compared to "it's vacant, but, people come and go". You stop, you cut the grass, if you see a neighbor, you talk (Most of us don't have time for that, but, you make time, it might make the difference) Your friendly, you allow them to talk about them, you ask about them. (See, don't forget, if your running less than years at a time, most of the time explanations are easy to come up with. ie: You moved from somewhere else, but, you still have to sell your other house so moving in slowly.......Your wife still has to finish a project at work.....something about kids, so, your using lead time to get everything painted and slowly moving in (whatever, you make it up as you go along and base it on the truth. Everyone should lie as little as possible. Just gives you more things to remember..)

My point was basically: If 5 people say "Well, I'm not gonna live there!", then maybe it's not safe enough to start with.

Now, how does all of this fall into real estate discussions besides that which already has been stated? (because it does) Well, here's one:
In keeping with the overall tone (of "investing"), you don't buy the "best" house on the block. You buy the worst. Then, you also have people glad your going to do something about it, fix it (because neighbors never like it). You do a little work on the outside, clean it up, landscaping, little external work here and there, and, again, small, minor, insignificant things and people see "activity". You want "activity" You want it to appear "something" is being done. (ie: Your not living there? Fine. Why?) (I know the above for a fact. Firsthand knowledge and experience. Spent more than one night with neighbors talking, having a beer, even blowing one (they offered, I hesitantly accepted (Haven't really done that since younger, but, sure, why not, need a break from painting )

Edit: You want to go larger because you want the space, privacy, power, what have you? Well, I have personally seen more than my share of 1MM+ shitholes in "prestigious" areas, neighborhoods, locations.(Who knows You do well enough, you may extend a little and keep it for yourself in the future (I know a lot of people using the "interest only" loans which they're living in things 1MM+ and making payments similar to something 1/4(add taxes, maybe 1/3rd, etc...Many areas are basically 25K per 1MM....some more, some less, just a figure)

(Now many would say, including myself, "Mind your own business/it's not your business anyway"...and then go into a rant how people should (mind their own business), but, the fact remains, in this day and age and environment, that's how it is, and, what you have to work with and address. I would think certain areas much, much worse on these subjects. (You have places in Cali and Canada where house estimates are through the roof. Other regions, it's not like that. (ie: People see something and automatically think "grow house"..) Using nothing is fine. (appliances). Lot of Europeans (That I know in US) don't use their A/C in summer anyway.(I know a bunch, I can't even get ice cubes when I see them...) I'm sure point is displayed. If you don't feel comfortable enough to live there? Then you shouldn't grow there.(Because, after all, the bottom line is "safe". If you don't feel safe? Then your not doing it right.

 

[pico]

Gorilla-

I have had great success with the EZ clone at certain times. Just after about 3-6 months the thing goes to hell. The sprayers clog up, the neoprene plugs shrivel a little bit and don't give a perfect seal. Then the clones start getting water sprayed on the leaves which isn't good.

I always clean with hot water and bleach. I let the pump run with that solution. I was the fuck out of it with fresh water and run the pump in the bathtub with fresh water and drain refill a couple of times. I soak the neoprene plugs in bleach water and clean the shit out of it..... Recently I tried using high grade H202 in the unit instead of bleach and that didn't work either.

I don't disagree that the EZ clone and similar products have done quite well with their marketing. They sell pretty well, but that doesn't mean that work well. Grow junkies will buy anything that is the cool new toy. I know I buy some stupid shit sometimes *Cough* Omega Garden *Cough*

I have found cons to the EZ and I am just tired of dealing with it. I have since found a better system that requires little to no cleaning. Transplants are easier since they are not bare root. Cloning process is faster/easier. I can take way more clones in the same space. Not as loud. People would always ask 'what is that sound?' when my ez cloner was running.

The EZ clone is like a hotrod car that is really fast. The only problem is it is in the shop so often that the honda beats it 9 times out of 10.

Since I supply thousands of clones for the medical community, I need something that is reliable and doesn't need its hand held to work properly. Also, when using the EZ cloner I had to transplant the bare roots in to something before I could transport them. That takes a bunch more time and you can lose clones in that process......

I guess I should probably mention the system I use now. It is called the Pro Series 1 Propagation unit. Made by LMC wholesale out of portland, oregon. $400, same size as EZ cloner. Uses oasis cubes (which are sweet) and holds 416 clones. Just a 2x4 ebb flow tray with a small res underneath and it floods tray every now and again. Has a big dome on top with a humidistat control and small fan that turns on when humidity has gone over set point. This thing works wonders. No crazy cleaning between runs. No transplanting in to another cube to transport. No loud sounds. Very easy to work with. Very easy to replicate. You could use rockwool or rapid rooters in this sytem if you wanted, but the oasis horticubes are sweet. pH nuetral and soft enough for the smallest cuttings to slide in. Shown below without lid.

Hey pico .. I understand you think the Ez clone is garbage.. and many other people do too!! here's the link to others with the same problem.. pay attention nobody is cleaning and using it properly. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=59210

It seems to go two ways with the EZ .. Either it works or or it DID. well if it DID at one point.. you could make it work again. question for you pico.. were you ever able to get a good run off of it when new? If NOT then your water is beyond repair (highly unlikely since well water works fantastic) ,, or you never put a cloning solution in the rez.

IF you dont use bleach to clean it,, and clonex or a similar rooting solution.. you WILL have problems guaranteed. But then again if you dont follow any way of cloning to a tee you will have the same problems. MOST are trying to use peroxide or some other alternative to clean,, most are using something other than clonex solution.

Think about it PICO EZ sells tons of these for years, botanicare and every other hydro co. has come out with one now. We have had threads for making your own on icmag and og .. do you really think its garbage.. or maybe your not using it per the directions.

Some pros might laugh at the EZ but I'm sure theres more than a few out there that realize it saves time, and produces the best starts you are going to get anyway anywhere and in less time, w/ the transplants taking faster than any other way, Vigor = success .
of course there are cons with the EZ but unless you've found one.. then dont worry about it.

 

[Julian]

Also, when using the EZ cloner I had to transplant the bare roots in to something before I could transport them. That takes a bunch more time and you can lose clones in that process......

See, that's my take, I mean, seems like just adding another task....

 

[pumpkin2006]

So I've read threw most of this thread, but maybe I missed this...

Whats the most efficient system out there? I mean is it a SOG with 4" rockwool cubes with drippers on them? Is it ebb n' flow SOG, is it trees?

I guess the main point that has been illustrated here is: You want a quick setup and a quick tear down with high productivity and low maintenance. [EDIT] I would consider cost to be a factor as well[/EDIT]

So what system/style is this ^?

 

[GorillaGrower]

its actually not adding a task at all julian. he's going to have to transplant those rw or oasis cubes into dirt with peat pots right?(If there going outside) well instead he could put in perfect roots that if you dont let them get big.. you'll actually see the plant grow.. the day of transplant. NO bullshit. in a way filling a 120 site w/ 3 a site.. will give 360 in 7 days. ok you might put more effort into cleaning... but if your going with something w/ a rez (pico) its all the same. Julian there is no way fm can rip and strip to cubes as fast as he could to an ez.. then they'll be done quicker guaranteed.. the thing about it is.. where are you going to put the ez when your done it doesn't match up with fms position i guess

Pico.. I don't know what you did to get your sprayers clogged.. but if you only use water , clonex and clean with bleach it will work. SOMEthing is up if your sprayers are clogged... and if they are.. you can buy replacements. there should be nothing in the REZ that is clogging sprayers. (maybe nutes not needed)

But its all a null conversation.. you need cuts in rw to transport to patients... the only reason not to have one IMO

Thanks for explaining your experiences.. I remember reading about your cloner before.. It looks sweet for your purposes.
You should get 99.9% of their clones transplanted into Any medium they wanted with a less than 1 % death rate.. if your not getting that.. then maybe its the process your doing wrong.

Julian think of a veg center that you only have to stop by at once every week,, with fresh work everytime to do.. in a way it could be much less work for one person. Like you've talked about theres pluses and minuses to everything.. one minus is not having trouble transporting bare roots into soil.. that's easy.. just like its said theres away to accomplish anything.. if you want a ezclone to rw.. just pull the clones out before the cut explodes.. put it into anything.. and you've survived hardening off and will be days week ahead of normal cuts. Its all timing. I can't believe people complain about roots growing inches a day. jeeszz