Machine abused Nugs...

[Shiva Blaster]

Remember the golden rule of commerce, the customer is ALWAYS right

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Wow...

Shiva, you hadn't smoked cannabis until you cropped your 1st grow? How did you even know that you wanted to grow weed if it wasn't for the product someone else took the time and effort to produce.


You really need to learn some basic economics and why markets work and do as they do.

If there wasn't a need for commercially grown weed.. there wouldn't be any.
If consumers weren't OK with buying machine trimmed cannabis - there wouldn't be any.

The thing is.. the market determines these things.. because that is what markets do. That is their sole purpose.

Consumers want cheaper prices.. great. Well apparently they are OK with a machine trimmed nug to accommodate such prices.. Large grows are costly. They have a lot of overhead. The trim process is a part of that overhead. Machines are being used because consumers want cheaper weed. Price > Quality.

You do realize that most commercial growers are not selling their nugs for $50/8th. That is merely a product of a long distribution chain or retailers (they have overhead too) maintaining a profit margin that the market sets! Most commercial growers put in a ton of work, time, and expense and wholesale their produce for a fair rate (a rate that the market sets). It's a bit more work then your personal grow.

Stop bashing the growers that are providing cannabis to people who cannot grow it themselves for whatever reason... You clearly are clueless as to how it all works.

We dictate the market, not the mass producers.

Exactly. Consumers are dictating the current market price and quality. Supply vs. Demand
so...What are you so butt hurt about. What makes a commercial grower so "greedy". Because they go to work.. fill a demand.. and get paid for it?

I assume you get up every day and go to work for free while not tending to your personal closet grow. Get a clue dude.. not wanting or having to pay a retail price for your cannabis is great, but to bash the production side of things is pure nonsense.


Market forces at work....

 

[FlowerFarmer]

PS -

My last harvest of around 15 lbs took me roughly ~3 months time to produce. I tended to it for several hours every day.. Initial investment (and re-occurring expenses) and equipment costs to operate and cool such a modest operation would make your head spin (let me know if you'd like a breakdown...ex. my dehumidifier alone is nearly $2000.. I need two). Electricity costs were in the thousands each month. Trimming alone took me nearly 3 weeks (not included in the 3 months) working alone with my scissors and my trim rotor. I had some help here and there where I paid $20/hr.

Because I am merely a producer (not a retailer) I wholesaled it for $2500/lb. ..some ~$5.50/gram

I'm not saying it's not a decent living, but it's also a risky occupation and still federally illegal and can lead to prison time.. It's certainly one of great risk, time, and overhead expense.

So Shiva..What do you think I should sell my produce for so that people whom cannot grow can partake in the fruits of my labor? Shiva, what do you consider a fair rate for my labor and effort all things considered?

Also.. I'm not a medical grower. I don't care what people use my produce for. Most of my consumers use recreational.
Oh yea.. I do it after my 9-5 day job so consider it all overtime. I barely have a life because of the dedication I put into this side job to earn a little extra cash and provide others with quality cannabis so they can partake.


Like I said.. please get a clue before spewing another 10 posts into this thread. A class in economics and possibly small business would do you a world of good. Not trying to be a dick, but your slurry of posts is pure bullshit.

 

[Shiva Blaster]

PS -

My last harvest of around 15 lbs took me roughly ~3 months time to produce. I tended to it for several hours every day.. Initial investment (and re-occurring expenses) and equipment costs to operate and cool such a modest operation would make your head spin (let me know if you'd like a breakdown...ex. my dehumidifier alone is nearly $2000.. I need two). Electricity costs were in the thousands each month. Trimming alone took me nearly 3 weeks (not included in the 3 months) working alone with my scissors and my trim rotor. I had some help here and there where I paid $20/hr.

Because I am merely a producer (not a retailer) I wholesaled it for $2500/lb. ..some ~$5.50/gram

I'm not saying it's not a decent living, but it's also a risky occupation and still federally illegal and can lead to prison time.. It's certainly one of great risk, time, and overhead expense.

So Shiva..What do you think I should sell my produce for so that people whom cannot grow can partake in the fruits of my labor? Shiva, what do you consider a fair rate for my labor and effort all things considered?

Also.. I'm not a medical grower. I don't care what people use my produce for. Most of my consumers use recreational.
Oh yea.. I do it after my 9-5 day job so consider it all overtime. I barely have a life because of the dedication I put into this side job to earn a little extra cash and provide others with quality cannabis so they can partake.


Like I said.. please get a clue before spewing another 10 posts into this thread. A class in economics and possibly small business would do you a world of good. Not trying to be a dick, but your slurry of posts is pure bullshit.

I'm getting 10 positive reps for every one negative one for my posts, that shows you where the smokers stand. I'm not sure where you got the part about me never smoking pot before I started growing, I've been smoking for almost 25 years.

We don't want a sob story about how expensive things are, it was your choice to go into that line of work. The gripe in this thread is not the cost of weed in general, but specifically nugs that have been destroyed by commercial trimming machines. We don't care about what your costs are, just like like the guy buying an apple at the grocery store doesnt care what that the farmer's costs are, they just want to buy an apple that isn't bruised and beat to shit! If someone keeps going to the store to find shitty overpriced apples that are all bruised and cut, they are either going to start shopping somewhere else, or they are going to plant their own apple tree.

I have no issue with commercial growers that do things the right way, but when they start pawning off machine-trimmed crap and demanding market prices, that's total BS.

 

[Shiva Blaster]

Secondly, I was encouraging the unhappy smokers in this thread to look into other options if they are getting fucked over by the growers and sellers in their area. For medical patients, they can grow their own or designate someone who will grow their medicine for them. Or they can find a dispensary that will turn away bullshit machine-raped weed at the door.

For recreational users, they can find another source (which is not always possible depending), or they can grow their own (also not always possible). I was simply letting unhappy customers know that they have options. You commercial growers don't like to hear that, but it's true.

With any luck, in time this wonderful plant will be fully legal everywhere, putting an end to the greed and allowing for any average Joe to grow their own without fear.

 

[b00m]

Oh, and the chicken-shit commercial grower that is anonymously giving me negative rep just because I have a different viewpoint, keep it coming, I could care less I'll wear negative rep from a commercial grower like a badge of honor

FYI No one on this site can give Negative Rep Anonymously, that feature was removed a few months ago, if you have received Neg Rep then the person's name will be right along side it on your My IC Page.

 

[Shiva Blaster]

FYI No one on this site can give Negative Rep Anonymously, that feature was removed a few months ago, if you have received Neg Rep then the person's name will be right along side it on your My IC Page.

Hmmmm, really? I'm fairly new so I don't have all member features yet...when I go the My IC. I can see the negative rep (along with all the positive ones), but can't see who are sending them.

All I can see is a comment personally insulting me.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I'm not sure where you got the part about me never smoking pot before I started growing, I've been smoking for almost 25 years.

All made possible by someone who grew more then they could consume themselves. You obviously missed the point here.


No sob story here. I was simply laying out some of the reasons prices are still where they stand. We can't bend that much lower while remaining profitable.. and certainly not while running the risk of federal prosecution. You don't go to work for free.. why would growers?

I'm not twisting anyone's arm to buy my product. If they don't like it they can shop elsewhere as you said.

Like I said.. that's the market at work. The current market prefers cheap cannabis over more expensive hand trimmed perfection. See post #63 by Yes4Prop215 if you need further explanation.


I still fail to see where anyone is getting "fucked" over in this whole ordeal. Cannabis trade is a mutual agreement. Greed? Isnt it just as greedy to want perfectly grown and manicured cannabis for next to nothing while your brother/sisters put in hard work to make that possible. You want hand trimmed bud, but don't want to pay increase price for it. I simply want some free hours to spend with my family...the machine makes that somewhat possible.. stop being greedy. Isn't it greedy to want cheap perfect apples that weren't picked by machine but rather by a farmer who spent 18 hours hand picking only the perfectly ripe so that you can sink your teeth into one for practically free.

We don't care about what your costs are

Yea.. because you're possibly the greedy one.. more of that me me me shit without taking any consideration into what makes it possible... for you to consume a nug without growing it.. or eat a apple without an apple tree.

You should embrace the mom n' pop growers doing what they are doing to make it possible for the masses to partake... It may soon be overran by corporations who really don't give a rats ass about anything other then lining their pockets. Then you'll see real greed and and all sorts of bad practices.



It's good you are promote growing and self-sufficiency in cannabis, but you're going about it the entirely wrong way...blaming the wrong people, etc.

You commercial growers don't like to hear that, but it's true.

It's really not like that.. It's not like a bunch of closet growers are going to put an end to the massive demand from people who can't or would rather not grow their own. We exist because because of consumers who appreciate someone putting in all the leg work so that they can purchase cannabis with ease. Profit isn't a dirt word. Free market capitalism works.


I'm through here though.. carry on. Perhaps take a second to look at both sides of the situation before spreading all that hatred. A lot of us do still grow a bit of hand trimmed perfect albeit in much smaller quantities.. unfortunately it's going to cost more (see increased time and limited supply). Obviously it takes a lot more time/expense in which the majority of the market "doesnt care about" nor is willing to pay for.

Teach more consumers to accept a bit of a rough cut and we'll stop sending it through the machines. Everyone wins.
As stated before.. Consumers are dictating the market. They want cheap cannabis and a tight cut hence.. the current situation.


PS - I've never neg repped you though bro.. I could care less about some pointless rating system. I'm merely expressing my opinion on the matter.
PPS - A lot of us commercial growers do give away a ton of larf/ "B" nugs for those who can't afford to purchase nor grow themselves (if it makes you feel any better about us)

 

[darkadious]

well, this is the first thread i've read on here where i've wanted my time back.

 

[Shiva Blaster]

All made possible by someone who grew more then they could consume themselves. You obviously missed the point here.


No sob story here. I was simply laying out some of the reasons prices are still where they stand. We can't bend that much lower while remaining profitable.. and certainly not while running the risk of federal prosecution. You don't go to work for free.. why would growers?

I'm not twisting anyone's arm to buy my product. If they don't like it they can shop elsewhere as you said.

Like I said.. that's the market at work. The current market prefers cheap cannabis over more expensive hand trimmed perfection. See post #63 by Yes4Prop215 if you need further explanation.


I still fail to see where anyone is getting "fucked" over in this whole ordeal. Cannabis trade is a mutual agreement. Greed? Isnt it just as greedy to want perfectly grown and manicured cannabis for next to nothing while your brother/sisters put in hard work to make that possible. You want hand trimmed bud, but don't want to pay increase price for it. I simply want some free hours to spend with my family...the machine makes that somewhat possible.. stop being greedy. Isn't it greedy to want cheap perfect apples that weren't picked by machine but rather by a farmer who spent 18 hours hand picking only the perfectly ripe so that you can sink your teeth into one for practically free.

Yea.. because you're possibly the greedy one.. more of that me me me shit without taking any consideration into what makes it possible... for you to consume a nug without growing it.. or eat a apple without an apple tree.

You should embrace the mom n' pop growers doing what they are doing to make it possible for the masses to partake... It may soon be overran by corporations who really don't give a rats ass about anything other then lining their pockets. Then you'll see real greed and and all sorts of bad practices.



It's good you are promote growing and self-sufficiency in cannabis, but you're going about it the entirely wrong way...blaming the wrong people, etc.

It's really not like that.. It's not like a bunch of closet growers are going to put an end to the massive demand from people who can't or would rather not grow their own. We exist because because of consumers who appreciate someone putting in all the leg work so that they can purchase cannabis with ease. Profit isn't a dirt word. Free market capitalism works.


I'm through here though.. carry on. Perhaps take a second to look at both sides of the situation before spreading all that hatred. A lot of us do still grow a bit of hand trimmed perfect albeit in much smaller quantities.. unfortunately it's going to cost more (see increased time and limited supply). Obviously it takes a lot more time/expense in which the majority of the market "doesnt care about" nor is willing to pay for.

Teach more consumers to accept a bit of a rough cut and we'll stop sending it through the machines. Everyone wins.
As stated before.. Consumers are dictating the market. They want cheap cannabis and a tight cut hence.. the current situation.


PS - I've never neg repped you though bro.. I could care less about some pointless rating system. I'm merely expressing my opinion on the matter.
PPS - A lot of us commercial growers do give away a ton of larf/ "B" nugs for those who can't afford to purchase nor grow themselves (if it makes you feel any better about us)

It's all good man.....I think you are over-reacting a bit, saying that I am spreading hatred. We are on opposite sides of the line and have our own views on the subject......I am perfectly capable of agreeing to disagree, I just enjoy healthy debate.

I did say multiple times in this thread that it's not all commercial growers are guilty of passing off crap, all I know is what I was seeing around here in the years before I started to grow my own. Machine-trimmed was only a minor gripe......even worse, the majority of the commercial weed here was over-ferted and under-flushed with little to no cure. The growers that sell this kind of crap are the worst of the worst.

Yes, people can go elsewhere, but it isn't always that easy....not everyone lives in NY or Cali where the stuff is everywhere, in lower populated areas sometimes people have no other option but buy the crap that's being peddled at that time.

Anyhow, I'm not spreading hate...the only hate going on in this thread is the hate for machine-bashed buds. I agree that you should charge more for hand-trimmed, and I never had a problem paying more when I bought. I think you guys are wrong and making a big generalization when you say that everyone just wants the cheapest bud possible, because that is simply not the case. It's that way for high-school kids, sure, but there are a TON of successful stoners out there with money that are willing to pay for proper quality. Personally, I don't smoke bargain cigs or drink cheap booze....I like to enjoy the little things in life. I was always willing to pay $30-40 extra for an ounce if the weed had obviously been treated with care and was of good quality. I know a lot of stoners that would agree. I think the main complaint here is not that it's more expensive to buy hand-trimmed buds, but that all the weed is the same price all the time......when it's nice and well taken care of, it's one price. If it's beat to shit, it's still the same price. That's my experience........the local prices are the local prices and they don't vary by more than $20 per ounce regardless if it's condition.

 

[Shiva Blaster]

Also, I have close friends my age that grew weed for a time a few years back......they made a KILLING keeping it a manageable size. Medium sized grows, there was only 2 of them. They did everything themselves by hand including trimming, and their stuff was absolutely top shelf. They were making well into 6 figures per year at that size and did very well for themselves until they both decided to change to a safer career.

For this reason, I don't really have any sympathy for you huge growers that have these big operations with massive overheads. It was your choice to expand to the point where you have to sacrifice quality for quantity.......it's not like you have to go this route, I know for a fact you can make an extremely comfortable living keeping it a smaller mom and pop type operation instead of stuffing a warehouse full of plants.

 

[b00m]

Hmmmm, really? I'm fairly new so I don't have all member features yet...when I go the My IC. I can see the negative rep (along with all the positive ones), but can't see who are sending them.

All I can see is a comment personally insulting me.

Hmmm OK I didn't see your Join Date, after a week or so of being a active member and reaching 50 posts (which you have got over 50 already) all the features will be activated for you

 

[Shiva Blaster]

Hmmm OK I didn't see your Join Date, after a week or so of being a active member and reaching 50 posts (which you have got over 50 already) all the features will be activated for you

Awesome, thanks! It's tougher to get going here than on other sites.....not having the ability to edit posts as a new member suck that's why I had to make multiple posts.....I kept forgetting something I wanted to add and would have to make a new post.

I have a grow journal up and going too and would like to be able to add it to the "My Journal" sections as well. Minor annoyances though, I really like the site. The amount of strain-specific info over in the grower section kicks ass! I also love the Vendor forums where there is piles of info and you can even interact and ask questions of the breeders.....fantastic stuff!

 

[TheRealHash]

Also, I have close friends my age that grew weed for a time a few years back......they made a KILLING keeping it a manageable size. Medium sized grows, there was only 2 of them. They did everything themselves by hand including trimming, and their stuff was absolutely top shelf. They were making well into 6 figures per year at that size and did very well for themselves until they both decided to change to a safer career.

For this reason, I don't really have any sympathy for you huge growers that have these big operations with massive overheads. It was your choice to expand to the point where you have to sacrifice quality for quantity.......it's not like you have to go this route, I know for a fact you can make an extremely comfortable living keeping it a smaller mom and pop type operation instead of stuffing a warehouse full of plants.

You need some happy weed bro

And the trim pal is a new machine that trims dry and doesn't destroy product like wet trimming machines. The trim pal is far superior to the trim pro or the twister any other wet trimming machine. Chances are you've never seen product from a trim pal... Or have you, you could be smoking a trim pal'd nug right now and you'd never know!!!! Because it works that good.

 

[Shiva Blaster]

You need some happy weed bro

And the trim pal is a new machine that trims dry and doesn't destroy product like wet trimming machines. The trim pal is far superior to the trim pro or the twister any other wet trimming machine. Chances are you've never seen product from a trim pal... Or have you, you could be smoking a trim pal'd nug right now and you'd never know!!!! Because it works that good.

C'mon man, could you make it any more obvious that you are just here to peddle the trim pal? you said Trim Pal like 10 times......we'll stick to hand-trimmed thanks. Go spam some other sites trying to sell your shitty trimmer.

 

[TheRealHash]

I'm serious you need some afgooey or some shit. Stop all the hatin' cause we skatin'

 

[Shiva Blaster]

I ain't hating, read my above post, we're all good and just debating up in here. No one likes a spammer though, so you should probably keep it moving.

 

[TheRealHash]

 

[Shiva Blaster]

And I'll be sure to tell every grower I meet that the Trim Pal sucks donkey balls

 

[TheRealHash]

I ain't hating, read my above post, we're all good and just debating up in here. No one likes a spammer though, so you should probably keep it moving.

You should probably eat a dick bro, I'm not spamming.