Living organic soil from start through recycling

[Heliopolis]

Thank you, CC. I was just reading about how vigorously it can grow back from being cut down. You know, its utilitarian benefits aside, it's a rather attractive plant to me.

 

[jerry111165]

Rrog - when you dig the holes to plant your comfrey, dump in a mess of compost. I planted several last spring, several with ALOT of compost, and several just in the local soil. The ones without compost did fine. The ones that I dumped a wheelbarror full of soil into looked like Coots. We have enough from those plants to feed (supplement) the horse daily for the rest of the winter, make botanical teas, added to soil mixes, whatever. Lots and lots of plant material.

Anyhow - they friggin LOVE compost.

j

 

[Weyenot]

No-till ROLS 3 gallon 'The One x BMR Bx1' 36 days 12/12.......oh yeah...and no ph adjustments to water or teas.

View Image

Thank you Gas for another beautiful picture of a healthy,gorgeous plant just bursting with vigor; yet more proof of how well this method works, thank you for the inspiration!! Im seeing more and more how someone could easily lose interest in those hyped up genetics out there, they simply cant compare; whats the point of growing a plant that smells amazing but isnt strong as far as the whole picture goes? I admit, Ive been under the spell of big words and no delivery but Im practicing the skill of seeing through that crap; that 'fancy' talk does nothing but fill egos and pockets.
Thank you for sharing what you do!

 

[Weyenot]

I just wrote something addressing this. Can you accept or send PMs?

or email me through my site

I would love to read what you wrote! I believe the rules here wont let me PM or receive them until I have fifty posts or something like that. Since Im moving right along towards the fifty mark with posts and my brain is currently digesting several articles on composting and lignins at the time being, why dont I PM you about that article when I reach the mark? If I feel like I can handle it before I get to fifty Ill email you on your site
Thank you for making me aware of this!

 

[Microbeman]

Weyenot; Check your inbox

 

[OrganicLearner]

So it is safe to feed chickens and rabbits a lot of the accumulator plants out there? Maybe stinging nettles would be a bit much for them though...I wanna kill two birds (hopefully not chickens) with one stone. What would be a good plant for chicken feed and also good for the garden?

 

[Weyenot]

Weyenot

All of the plants that you mentioned as well as Comfrey & Stinging Nettles started out as medicinal plants a few thousands years back and they are still grown and harvested as medicine around the world today.

Borage & Comfrey are very close in their nutrient and compound profiles so they are interchangeable. The difference is that Borage will only give you about 15% of the biomass of Comfrey - if that. When you factor in the ability to take 3 - 4 cuttings a year with Comfrey the differences in biomass are even more striking.

Yarrow, Stinging Nettles & Comfrey are part of Steiner's Biodynamic tenets and are used specifically to activate compost piles like you'll be building. I think that this is far better than adding them to your worm bins because they can ramp up the heat in the bedding up in a day or two to temperatures high enough to kill some of your worms. Adding any raw Nitrogen source can bring problems that you don't need. Yarrow branches is the traditional sticks used in I Ching. Yarrow is almost revered in some cultures.

Worms do really well with mammalian manure, composted chicken manure and of course compost. Running your finished compost through the worm bins will only enhance the benefits by leaps and bounds. Makes for cheap worm bin food as well.

German Chamomile - you might want to read up on this one for it's value to you and your family. It isn't mission critical in a compost recipe and the health benefits to you would far exceed whatever the flowers might contribute to compost or even vermicompost. Price some organic Chamomile flowers for sh*ts & grins.

Same thing with Yarrow - a very ancient medicinal plant and there is a ton of information out there but again you'll do pretty well by just reading the page on Yarrow at Horizon Herbs. They have good information on all of the plants, seeds and roots that they offer. Plus they're one of a handful of seed companies that actually produce their own seeds. [cite]

If you have chickens, rabbits or livestock then you can feed them Borage, Comfrey and Stinging Nettles. Comfrey became an important fodder in England in the mid-1700s and remains so today. That was the reason the Bocking series were developed - a sterile strain so that production could be limited to specific areas.

If you have a vegetable garden then covering the soil with fresh-cut Comfrey leaves and covering that with your compost and let that sit for a couple of weeks is another way to work with the leaves. My 4 Comfrey plants produced over 3.5 cubic yards this past season which is a lot of friggin' Comfrey. You've probably read that kelp meal is an excellent Potassium (K) source which it is - no question about that. Comfrey has 2.8x that level. In England you can buy Comfrey-Kelp pellets for farms and gardens - too bad it's not available in the states.

You can also make Comfrey Syrup which is a way to have it available during the winter months. I'll dig up this one video in particular from either Australia or England that shows how it's done.

Ain't exactly rocket science......

HTH

CC

Wow those are some tasty tidbits, thank you CC!!

I definitely will look into the medicinal properties of these herbs; a natural whole foods lifestyle coupled with medicine from plants to heal what ails us makes alot of sense to me. The plants dont have a hidden agenda like making money, so I think it makes sense to let them help us and learn what we can.

Since the Borage yields less mass I think I will use it to make extracts/concentrates and devote the comfrey to composting and the outside garden primarily. That is awesome that comfrey can produce so much, it really seems to be a vigorous plant; its pretty incredible that you got that much from four plants!! Since I just planted mine a little while ago I wonder if this will affect the yield this year, even though what I got were whole crowns and not pieces of root. They looked ready to grow when I got them; all had new white roots growing off of the main one and the bocking 14s all had a new shoot coming out the top.

Thank you for the headsup on the worm beds regarding extra nitrogen; from what Im learning about how nitrogen really heats things up it makes sense that it could easily cook some of those little guys and I dont want that! It looks like I will stick to horse or cow manure in the worm beds and add finished compost later on to make it that much more awesome. This is such valuable information

I am planning on setting up a greenhouse and I think some comfrey and compost will make for a nice prep before I plant this spring. I didnt know it has almost 3 times the K of kelp, which was the main source I knew of before. The syrup method has me interested and maybe I could even try making some pellets too, do you know if they use molasses for the binder like in alfalfa pellets?

I agree, these techniques really dont seem all that complicated; observe and immerse and things start to reveal themselves


love be with you CC

 

[OrganicLearner]

Thanks I didn't catch that... Gotta play catch up in here lol

 

[Weyenot]

Right! It's the fresh material that can be a real problem. Especially Comfrey, Alfalfa and Borage. What makes these a great compost activator will cause the same deal in your worm bin.

With Comfrey you can lay the leaves flat on the surface and if you don't cover it with your food stock (compost, manure, et al) then it will breakdown in 2 or 3 days to the point where it won't be a problem.

Comfrey is unique on how quickly it decomposes - using the fresh leaves as a green mulch was the primary method discussed in the 'big book' on Comfrey written by the horticulturist in England who developed the very same cultivar that we plant over 60 years ago in Essex on Bocking Road. The root pieces we order are direct cuttings from his work.

So much for genetic drift I guess......

Ive been reading some composting articles today http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/fundamentals/needs_carbon_nitrogen.htm so I have the carbon/nitrogen ratio is still buzzing in my head. When it comes to the green materials high in nitrogen, as these sit and degrade is the nitrogen dissipating or being converted? Or maybe something completely different; any thoughts CC, anybody?

I also found an interesting article on lignins and the effect they have on material decomposition. Interesting stuff! http://compost.css.cornell.edu/calc/lignin.html
I learned that Cellulose, Hemicellulose and Lignins are the components that make up cell wall structure in plants and out of all of them the lignins are the toughest and also seem to be 'woven' into the other two. The article suggests that because the lignins are tough and can cover a good bit of surface area that this blocks the enzymes that would digest the material and this is why the lignin level has such an effect on decomposition. It is mentioned that some fungi have developed enzymes that are capable of breaking down lignin; I wonder if it would be worth inoculating materials that contain lots of lignin with these fungi?

Apparently that is one strong plant he created; is that the bocking 14?

 

[Weyenot]

Very good! Watch out for the raw greens.

Bocking 14! Will be planting some of that in a raised bin later this year.

ok, that answers my question, its was B14.

CC - is that one plant in the picture further down on this page?! It looks massive; like it could be one or maybe a mass of smaller plants. The only one I have seen growing had larger versions of the broader leaves that yours has at its base radiating out from the crown/center but it hadnt put out any stalks.... yet? Is this what happens as it grows, or does it depend on the variety?

 

[Weyenot]

rrog

You don't need to - this plant will grow anywhere. The roots go down deeper than fruit trees - over 15' into the sub-soil. That's where the plant accumulates elements that end up in the root zone and important to us in the leaves.

'Nutrient Accumulators' - kelp, alfalfa, comfrey, stinging nettles, borage, etc. - about in that order aside from the differences in compounds each plant creates.

CC - what do you mean by the order; is it their order of importance perhaps?

 

[Weyenot]

Weyenot; Check your inbox

Thank you MM!!

 

[ColorGRo]

So i have read 300 pages and am understanding more every page. I am going to put together a mix of Pro-Mix BX, HIGH quality EWC, HIGH quality compost, some soil from under a pile of leaves that have been in my backyard for 3 years, and lava rock or whatever i find for the aeration. I will also add glacial rock dust to this. I am not going to switch fully to no bottled nutrients as i recently purchased (before finding this site) Botanicare PBPG and PBPB and want to use them up. I also have Earth Juice micronutrients and some bone meal and a bunch of free samples of sea green (in process of reading that thread also, trying to find a replacement) that i have been using. What amendments can i add to my soil and still use the products i am trying to finish off without worrying about burning or locking out anything? I have a good regimen i use with what i have now that my strains love but was worried if i use the soil mix on the first page plus the nutrients i have, that i will burn the plants or lock something out. Any advice?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I also found an interesting article on lignins and the effect they have on material decomposition. Interesting stuff! http://compost.css.cornell.edu/calc/lignin.html

Weyenot

Cornell University is one of the top agriculture and horticulture research schools in the world and one of the oldest. If you're interested in how 'potting soils' came about search with this text string: Cornell Mix which dates back 75 years

CC

 

[MJPassion]

So i have read 300 pages and am understanding more every page. I am going to put together a mix of Pro-Mix BX, HIGH quality EWC, HIGH quality compost, some soil from under a pile of leaves that have been in my backyard for 3 years, and lava rock or whatever i find for the aeration. I will also add glacial rock dust to this. I am not going to switch fully to no bottled nutrients as i recently purchased (before finding this site) Botanicare PBPG and PBPB and want to use them up. I also have Earth Juice micronutrients and some bone meal and a bunch of free samples of sea green (in process of reading that thread also, trying to find a replacement) that i have been using. What amendments can i add to my soil and still use the products i am trying to finish off without worrying about burning or locking out anything? I have a good regimen i use with what i have now that my strains love but was worried if i use the soil mix on the first page plus the nutrients i have, that i will burn the plants or lock something out. Any advice?

I'm no pro here but I'd not use the PBP for an organic grow. Especially if you plan to recycle and or reuse the soil mix. They contain toxic chelating agents, from what I understand.
EJ may be OK as I believe it's a ferment extract and I have no idea what the sea green is so check it out before you start dumping it on your new soil mix.

Anyway,
I've found a page or two that might be useful for those that forage for their accumulator plant composting materials.


List of Dynamic Accumulators
http://www.oregonbd.org/class/Accum.htm

Lists of Hyperaccumulators (Copy/Paste second 2 links if they dont work)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hyperaccumulators
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperaccumulators_table_–_2_:_Nickel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperaccumulators_table_–_3

I wasn't sure if the hyper-accumulator pages would help anybody or not so included them as well.

 

[Gascanastan]

TO x BMR Bx1....

 

[rasputin]

That is a very fine looking plant, Gas.

 

[rrog]

I'm really glad you document these Gas. Such excellent testimonial for the system. Who could dispute the results?

 

[W89]

B E A UTIFUL!

 

[BlueJayWay]

Uh oh Secrets out!!!