Living organic soil from start through recycling

[Gascanastan]

From some book larnin' - black pumice = obsidian

Kick ass product plus pretty kewl bragging rights which is always nice.

Like the neem vs. karanja deal. Neem is so passé isn't it? But karanja imparts a certain mystery from Ancient India.

That's my read - LMAO

CC

I started bypassing neem once I got my hands on the karanja oil...started using it in household applications too. It's wild harvested by barefoot dudes in the hills of India brother...peace~love~organic gluten freeness doood.....

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I guess I'll go with this....

That combination of liming agents will provide you with short(er) accessibility times, medium and long(er) times which is a good thing, IMHO

so If I get some neem meal... I can completely forgo the blood and bone meals?

Yes - an in-depth description can be provided but at the core is this: neem is plant material and is a nutrient accumulator. Neem trees (as well as Karanja trees) are also Nitrogen-fixing trees and while this is not a rare phenomenon it is out of the norm. Legumes are nitrogen-fixing plants and are used to improve crop fields. A major reason that these trees spread out to China, Persia, Morocco, Iraq, etc. was that they could be grown in poor soils.

Aside from the nutrients (Elements) that this tree accumulates you then could look at the 360 plant compounds (Secondary Metabolites) that provide bio-pesticides, bio-fungicides and even within this group are vastly different compounds that function in different ways particularly in the bio-pesticides.

For example the compound most often discussed relative to these trees is Azadirachtin which is the least effective bio-pesticide extracted from the seeds. Ever seen a thread or post about how worthless Azamax or Azatrol are? And they're correct. This compound is nothing more than a growth-inhibitor which is great for an agricultural application, i.e. spray this extract early in the season but it's pretty worthless in a horticultural environment.

some real good stuff on that site... so cheap too!

Fair prices, top-quality products, honest owners - win-win

I guess I need to finally build a tea brewer... (I have always just used top dressings to fertilize)

Way above my pay-grade - CT Guy and Microbeman are the ones to consult.

what about alfalfa meal... or does that need to be composted before use and serve better as a tea ingredient for this instance?

For very different reasons, I find that making an Alfalfa & Kelp meal tea to be the best use of Alfalfa meal with avoiding issues with high-dosing levels in the soil being the best argument.

HTH

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Thanks Coot. Regarding the pumice, I was wondering if there was a size used? Like a screen mesh size or such. http://www.keeferfarms.com/images/soilbig9.jpg This does the job, I suppose?

rrog

The bags of Pumice that come out the Klamath Basin and the Redmond Basin comes in 3 sizes.

Other than the largest size where the difference is obvious, the other 2 bags appears to be a process of deleting an inventory of bags that were misprinted. Both products have pumice across a huge range of sizes.

I don't give it much thought or concern. "It's all good!" LOL

CC

 

[xmobotx]

looks like i double posted ~lol

thanks coot! yes; i m an advocate of nutrient cycling through the compost
times i have mentioned it would be interesting to do a soil mix 'hot' {as in excess -or 'enough' N} and allowing the mix to 'compost' today; i see that nutrient cycling through the compost pile has all the same advantages w/o the need to resort to math

 

[ClackamasCootz]

looks like i double posted ~lol

thanks coot! yes; i m an advocate of nutrient cycling through the compost
times i have mentioned it would be interesting to do a soil mix 'hot' {as in excess -or 'enough' N} and allowing the mix to 'compost' today; i see that nutrient cycling through the compost pile has all the same advantages w/o the need to resort to math

xmobotx

Maybe my sad tale of woe will help explain what I was trying to show.

I harvested a LOT of Comfrey this year - about 3.5 c.y. total. One batch which was about 1 c.y. was intended to make 'Comfrey Syrup' and through my lack of attention what I ended up with is about 23 gallons of muck.

If I were to take that muck and added it to a potting soil there would be a die-off within a very few days. No question about it - done. Finis. Ovah.

So I mixed that Comfrey muck with a combination of organic fish compost, aged horse manure and some thermal compost that I made. I added about 8 lbs. of composting worms and next spring when that process is completed and the vermicompost is harvested then it will be a nutrient-rich material which will not burn the plants in any way.

HTH

CC

 

[rrog]

It's all interesting. I'll get some.

A little off the track question for this thread, but as I am not an outdoor gardener yet, and will be building many raised beds next year, is this type of soil appropriate for raised beds? I can't see why not. I will have timed irrigation.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Absolutely!!

If they're easily sourced (i.e. cheap) you could consider using a combination of rice hulls & pumice for your container-grown plants as well as your food beds.

The local farm stores sells pumice by the cubic yard tote - that's how much gets used by the commercial organic farms here in the valley. They also sell >300 tons of Canadian glacial rock dust a year - serious players.

CC

 

[rrog]

Fascinating. Preferred over perlite and vermic, obviously

 

[ClackamasCootz]

rrog

I went to confirm this but Keefer Farms is a really big deal in Western Canada especially in British Columbia. Here's a link to their product line

They've been around for over 50 years so they're doing something right.

CC

 

[DARC MIND]

I started bypassing neem once I got my hands on the karanja oil...started using it in household applications too. It's wild harvested by barefoot dudes in the hills of India brother...peace~love~organic gluten freeness doood.....

you damn hippy

 

[ClackamasCootz]

The early Vedic writings described 7 Holy Plants. Here's the cite on the Neem tree.....

Neem (Azadiracta indica)

Sanskrit Name: Nimba (bestower of good health)

Other Names: Indian Lilac

Sacred associations: one of the most sacred trees and is considered to be of divine origin; amrita (the elixir of immortality) was being carried to heaven and a few drops of it fell on the Neem tree; people believe the tree to be a manifestation of Goddess Durga; in some areas, the tree itself is believed to be a Goddess called Neemari Devi or Maa Kali.

One Hindu sect believes that the arrows that Arjuna used at the battle described in the Bhagavad Gita were gifts from a Vishnu avatar, Lord Krishna

Parts used: bark and leaves

Dosha effect: lowers pitta and kapha; increases vata

Energetics: bitter/cooling pungent

Dhatus: plasma, blood, fat

Indications: skin diseases (urticaria, eczema, ringworm), parasites, fever, malaria, cough, thirst, nausea, vomiting, diabetes, tumors, obesity, arthritis, rheumatism, jaundice

Actions: bitter tonic, antipyretic, alterative, anathematic, antiseptic, antiemetic

Precautions: diseases of cold and tissue deficiency generally

Preparation: infusion (hot or cold), decoction, powder, paste, medicated ghee or oil

 

[BlueJayWay]

That's a good speculation...but I haven't even thought about it yet.
All I did was repopulated it and share a few seed so far...originals still exist.

The first pollination was done in 1991 by some old guy...I have no clue what his intentions were at the time. I got the seeds and figured I'd best get to popping most of them before they expired from being removed from a freezer after 20 some years..
I do wonder what that old doods intentions were if any at all....


I had about 25 VR x NLH females and males....ironically the best mother and father ended up sharing the same pot....so I allowed them to fully pollinate in a separate space. After the hit I killed the male and put the female back into flower....she just kept flowering past the point of pollination which I found interesting.

We're talking 75 to over 100 days in these things...and massive sativa flowers.

The high was full blown old school 'racy' sativa with transcendental effects that I had to set down for a couple of weeks,but found favor in over other popular sativas once it was cured better.

Velvet Rush x NL#5/Neville's Haze .....like 90 days or something insane and still going. The leaf that is brown in the center was on flowers that were pollinated and then kept growing past the died off leaf and seed bearing flower...weird.
View Image

Like Coot said - probably bored LoL and I think too much!

Fat producing transcendental old Skool Sativa - I can dig it.

 

[Infinitesimal]

Coot

thanks man...

on the nitrogen fixing part... I was planning on growing some peas in early spring where I plan to do my Outdoor next year... to help build my top soil... isn't alfalfa nitrogen fixing as well?

could I grow some alfalfa over the winter, in my spot, then harvest and compost it while my peas grow then use the compost to amend the holes and make teas?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Infinitesimal

There are a lot of good cover crop seeds to consider and Alfalfa is one of the best. You'll want to get the innoculant (rhizobia) and this will explain the how & why

For a good overview on the many seeds that can be used do a search for "cover crop varieties" and you'll probably find it an interest read.

CC

 

[BlueJayWay]

Forgot to ask - anyone have a clue what circa 70's ganja in the Ohio area simply refered to as Affy would specifically be? Besides the obvious lol, I was thinking maybe there were specific large shipments coming in from Afghanistan to the east coast and was fairly recognizable. Original Afghan kush? IDK

 

[Microbeman]

Hot Soil = Unprocessed Organic Material (OM)

Thank you god Coot!

 

[Microbeman]

xmobotx

Maybe my sad tale of woe will help explain what I was trying to show.

I harvested a LOT of Comfrey this year - about 3.5 c.y. total. One batch which was about 1 c.y. was intended to make 'Comfrey Syrup' and through my lack of attention what I ended up with is about 23 gallons of muck.

If I were to take that muck and added it to a potting soil there would be a die-off within a very few days. No question about it - done. Finis. Ovah.

So I mixed that Comfrey muck with a combination of organic fish compost, aged horse manure and some thermal compost that I made. I added about 8 lbs. of composting worms and next spring when that process is completed and the vermicompost is harvested then it will be a nutrient-rich material which will not burn the plants in any way.

HTH

CC

If I might add. Some view this as a process which makes nutrients available to plants. In reality it sequesters nutrients into a form available to microorganisms and in some cases root acids (eg. DON, DOP; dissolved organic N&P) If it is to be described as a nutrient cycling phase, please realize = cycled to sequestration...awkwardly stated. IMO

 

[xmobotx]

xmobotx

Maybe my sad tale of woe will help explain what I was trying to show.

I harvested a LOT of Comfrey this year - about 3.5 c.y. total. One batch which was about 1 c.y. was intended to make 'Comfrey Syrup' and through my lack of attention what I ended up with is about 23 gallons of muck.

If I were to take that muck and added it to a potting soil there would be a die-off within a very few days. No question about it - done. Finis. Ovah.

So I mixed that Comfrey muck with a combination of organic fish compost, aged horse manure and some thermal compost that I made. I added about 8 lbs. of composting worms and next spring when that process is completed and the vermicompost is harvested then it will be a nutrient-rich material which will not burn the plants in any way.

HTH

CC

+k yeah; its in my sig i guess one just watches nature and sees how it works

If I might add. Some view this as a process which makes nutrients available to plants. In reality it sequesters nutrients into a form available to microorganisms and in some cases root acids (eg. DON, DOP; dissolved organic N&P) If it is to be described as a nutrient cycling phase, please realize = cycled to sequestration...awkwardly stated. IMO

nice info +k

 

[cyat]

hey Coot, wanted to say thanks for your spinosad and neem recipes!

funny the spinosad recipe is 2x what I used to use..

and the neem recipe is 1/2 of what i used before, and both seem like better doses

didnt have any protekt, but I used the neem as an emulsifying agent like I was making a creamy dressing, used an immersion blender..

this seems important as the uniform mix didnt allow hot spots of unmixed neem...

thanks again!

 

[schwagg]

rrog

The bags of Pumice that come out the Klamath Basin and the Redmond Basin comes in 3 sizes.

Other than the largest size where the difference is obvious, the other 2 bags appears to be a process of deleting an inventory of bags that were misprinted. Both products have pumice across a huge range of sizes.

I don't give it much thought or concern. "It's all good!" LOL

CC

CC, i've seen the med and fine pumice. that's why i'd pick the black pumice. is the large sized pumice worth looking into? again, i've never seen it.