Living organic soil from start through recycling

[BlueJayWay]

unthing

Thank you for jogging my memory! - it was the Micro version of Dutch White Clover that I was thinking of and what you found about it being part of a grass mix is exactly what happened. This seed was pulled from the retail stores and distribution is limited to grass seed mixes.

Tons and tons are shipped to Oregon to be packed with the grass seeds grown in the Willamette Valley. The Micro Clover will sprout and grow first with the 'real grass seed' following up thereby improving the soil and providing early roots to prevent run-off.

Next time you're at a nursery or hardware store look at the label on grass seeds for the homeowner - Stayton, Oregon

CC

Micro clover - http://www.whygoodnature.com/node/226 - too bad it seems to be coated with a nitrogen fert.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

CC, i've seen the med and fine pumice. that's why i'd pick the black pumice. is the large sized pumice worth looking into? again, i've never seen it.

schwagg

Yeah the store carries 1/8" and 1/4" and a 3/4" which is somewhat smaller than standard lava rock sold at DIY stores and landscape supply yards. It's all the same price, i.e. $4.60 list price. This can be from either the Klamath or Redmond Basins and it's the standard grey(isn) material.

What I was trying to explain was that in the smaller sized product there is quite a bit of variance in material size. It's not all that consistent - not that it matters much.

The black Pumice is very consistent in its material size but I have no idea where that is being mined. Very nice product, IMHO

From the home office of "Anything But Perlite"

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

cyat

You're welcome! Keep those bastards under control - LOL

BlueJayWay

this Micro clover product sure got screwed up in a hurry - less than 2 years. No small feat.

CC

 

[b_all_in]

Mosquito Dunks

Mosquito Dunks

Does anyone know if these actually work to control gnats and if they are safe/recommended for use in pots or my worm bin (which seems to be harboring gnats)? If not, are there any suggestions as to how to control/stop the breeding of these pests? Thanks for any help.

 

[Neo 420]

Does anyone know if these actually work to control gnats and if they are safe/recommended for use in pots or my worm bin (which seems to be harboring gnats)? If not, are there any suggestions as to how to control/stop the breeding of these pests? Thanks for any help.

Is your worm bin too wet???

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Does 'mosquito dunk' refer to a specific brand or is that a generic term for a number of products?

Just curious as usual......

 

[soursmoker]

I believe it is a brand name, a quick google search will bring up the product being discussed

 

[bajangreen]

whats up with this plant?

whats up with this plant?

I just top dress with bone meal last week to find this problem, what is it? its on all the older leaves.

And just for show, some wild harvested material, duckweed, aloe, banana flower and a sprouted coconut. now thinking about the processing of these.

 

[b_all_in]

Looks like I answered my own question

Looks like I answered my own question

"Bti", Bacillus thuringienis ssp. israelensis, are bacteria which infect and kill mosquito larvae. These bacteria are highly selective, killing only mosquitoes and their close relatives like gnats and black flies. Formulations of Bti will only kill these types of insects and do not harm other kinds of insects, fish, birds, worms or any mammals!

CC
Yes, Mosquito Dunks is a brand name for the above product. Apparently it is the same stuff as 'Gnatrol'.

Neo 420
When I brought my worm bin inside, I discovered these little gnats. I let the material dry out until worms started on a mass exodus.

I did experience one cool thing though. I noticed 3-5 little shiny black flack flies/wasps in the room. A couple days later, the gnat population decreased from 20-30 to almost non-existent. Two weeks later the wasps were gone and the gnats came back. I wish I couldve figured out a way to get the wasps to breed.

 

[Gascanastan]

Does anyone know if these actually work to control gnats and if they are safe/recommended for use in pots or my worm bin (which seems to be harboring gnats)? If not, are there any suggestions as to how to control/stop the breeding of these pests? Thanks for any help.

Mosquito dunks = little cork donuts saturated with Bacillus thuringiensis

They work,but you have to continually dose for about a month or longer...and for them to be effective in soil you have to crumble them up stick them in a tea bag and let them sit in your res for a couple days. You'll notice a drop in population,but not a complete kill....so you'll do it again ...and again.....and then you'll go and buy the liquid concentrate of bacillus thuringiensis because you'll find out that Mosquto Dunks aren't working that great and cost too much.

After a feller figures out that that sucks....a feller like myself would incorporate crab and neem meal in my recycled soil.

 

[b_all_in]

Thanks Gas

Thanks Gas

In a few days I will be going to make the purchase you guys helped me a little while back. I will definitely be incorporating neem and crab/lobster meals in my new mix and worm bin. Thanks for the input.

 

[Microbeman]

Bacillus thuringiensis subspecies israelensis is cheaper and more efficiently used in a form called Vectobac. It does, however usually come in a 1 Kg bag as the smallest size so this might be enough to last you the rest of your life (keep in freezer). We used this on our farm from 1989 to 2010 to control wetlands mosquitos. It definitely worked. Based on our success, this practice spread throughout our valley and to the regional government.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Cootz...if germinated seed tea = enzyme tea and alfalfa meal/keop meal (or whatever) = bio tea...how often do you feed one vs the other?

I am trying to read through all of the enzyme stuff (and struggling to understand). But I will say every time I use it the plants definitely respond.

The bio teas seem like a little boost to me and probably don't need to be done all that often. The enzyme teas ???

I am also having a hard time picturing why I can't just make a peat/ good quality vermicompost/ drainage amendment mix without further amending it at all...and then use the teas? Is there something I am missing? Is there something you cannot sequester in the humus?

For example, that vermicompost you are making...is it gonna be missing anything?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Here is the other piece that I have not quite put together in me own head just yet. Reams claimed you have to have some electrical energy in the soil for plants to grow...not much but some...he called it ergs (energy released per gram of soil) but it is really just some measurable electrical conductivity in the soil

If all of the nutrients are sequestered (I like that explanation MM) how do you get any EC?

Maybe this is what the occasional tea provides?

And not that it matters one bit cause this obviously works...just a curiosity on my part

 

[Gascanastan]

Cootz...if germinated seed tea = enzyme tea and alfalfa meal/keop meal (or whatever) = bio tea...how often do you feed one vs the other?

I am trying to read through all of the enzyme stuff (and struggling to understand). But I will say every time I use it the plants definitely respond.

The bio teas seem like a little boost to me and probably don't need to be done all that often. The enzyme teas ???

I am also having a hard time picturing why I can't just make a peat/ good quality vermicompost/ drainage amendment mix without further amending it at all...and then use the teas? Is there something I am missing? Is there something you cannot sequester in the humus?

For example, that vermicompost you are making...is it gonna be missing anything?

I'm riding the same wave Sam....I'm starting to lean towards the possible outcome according to the facts.

I am adding only barley seed tea..and pro-tekt at every watering..and results are impressive. I'm thinking to myself that this is showing better results than when I was using fish and kelp in a tea for supplemental feeding in flower.

 

[Microbeman]

If all of the nutrients are sequestered (I like that explanation MM) how do you get any EC?

1/ There will usually be a residual component of soluble nutrients.

2/ EC measurements applied to organic matter/soils takes on a different perspective than measuring salt contents. There is some question about the meter's validity in compost tests.

Also; http://bsesrv214.bse.vt.edu/Grisso/Ext/EC_Mapping_SSMG-30.pdf

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/442/442-508/442-508_pdf.pdf

and this email regarding my questioning its use several years ago (for determining stability in [vermi]compost)

EC test is a measure of the conductivity of a solution. Two poles are inserted into the solution with known separation and the amount of electricity or current passing from one pole to the other via the solution is measured. In my opinion, it is not a very elegant or reliable test method as there are so many potential interferences ... especially when the main interest is to approximate the water-soluble salt (NaCl) ion concentration of a solution.

Thank you,
- Wayne

Wayne H. Thompson - Extension Program Specialist, Biofuels Agronomist
Texas AgriLife Extension Service
Soil and Crop Sciences Department - Texas A & M University

could be revealing.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/442/442-508/442-508_pdf.pdf

Microbeman

That specific link's information is the one that brought the EC in soil home for me via the role that CeC plays in this discussion particularly the negative charge in clay and humus.

Great link and information - a must read, IMHO

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Cootz...if germinated seed tea = enzyme tea and alfalfa meal/keop meal (or whatever) = bio tea...how often do you feed one vs the other?

I am trying to read through all of the enzyme stuff (and struggling to understand). But I will say every time I use it the plants definitely respond.

The bio teas seem like a little boost to me and probably don't need to be done all that often. The enzyme teas ???

I am also having a hard time picturing why I can't just make a peat/ good quality vermicompost/ drainage amendment mix without further amending it at all...and then use the teas? Is there something I am missing? Is there something you cannot sequester in the humus?

For example, that vermicompost you are making...is it gonna be missing anything?

YosemiteSam

Besides the rock dusts, the only amendments that I add to the soil mix outside of humus, Sphagnum and an aeration mix of some kind is 1/2 cup each of kelp & neem meals and crab meal.

Those are probably the remnants of my 'training wheels' - i.e. they're probably not needed in the whole scheme of things. It's probably time to run a couple of test plants without these 3 amendments. It is something that I have given a lot of thought about actually.

Probably a comprehensive soil test on the vermicompost would be a good first step.

Good questions!

CC

 

[Microbeman]

YosemiteSam

Besides the rock dusts, the only amendments that I add to the soil mix outside of humus, Sphagnum and an aeration mix of some kind is 1/2 cup each of kelp & neem meals and crab meal.

Those are probably the remnants of my 'training wheels' - i.e. they're probably not needed in the whole scheme of things. It's probably time to run a couple of test plants without these 3 amendments. It is something that I have given a lot of thought about actually.

Probably a comprehensive soil test on the vermicompost would be a good first step.

Good questions!

CC

I do not use (or have not yet) those ingredients but I wonder about their contribution to pathogen/pest control (neem/crab) from your perspective. It would be interesting to see (but maybe not pleasant for Coot) the results of excluding them from a couple of test runs.

 

[YosemiteSam]

One more question. With plenty of all things being sequestered...I get that. What about Mg though? Not from the perspective of too little...but can you have too much of it even in these living soils?

Not a chemistry thing, but a physics thing. If you get too much does it not tighten the soil and reduce O2?

I am kind of assuming the peat is added simply to improve the particle size distribution to improve the pore size...that is open up humus (and yea, provide cec sites). So tiny humus particles, medium size spaghnum peat particles and big ol drainage amendment particles. Otherwise why wouldn't you just go humus/drainage amendment?

And again...just for the sake of curiosity...not questioning whether it works or not.