Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

[Weird]

After looking at all the different Mix recipes from Burn1,Weird,Dank Frank,Nameless, Gascanstan,3 Little Birds, and COOTZ I was able to pull out an overall average recipe for myself. I realized that many ingredients are included because they were available easily and cheap for that person, not because they are considered superior and the one and only. So this is the recipe I came up with for myself, based on what I could acquire cheap and wholesale locally.

1 Cup Bonemeal
1/2 Cup Kelp
1/2 Cup Alfalfa
1/2 Cup Bloodmeal
1/2 Cup Glacial Rock Dust
1/3 Cup Oyster Shell
1/3 Cup Dolomite Lime
1/3 Cup Gypsum
1/4 Cup Azomite

50% PEAT
35% PERLITE
15% EWC (High quality fresh homemade)

Will let this cook for 4 weeks, and take a ph measurement at that time and report back here with results. Any comments are welcome!

You struck a very important point I would like to tweak just a bit with some insight

first it isn't cheapest although it works out that way

it is the most abundant sustainable highest quality local components that are least expensive and offer most benefit (local indigenous microbes are most compatible with local indigenous amendments as well as local amendments being potentially fresher)

secondarily some items are used because they provide IPM benefits as well as supplement the primary amendments

neem meal for example fills more than one roll although I do not use it in flower because I don't want azadacdrine sp* in my end product it suits a fine example of serving multiple purposes

in my garden crab meal is a huge part of my ipm and I get it fresh and cheap

and on a last note personally I never used azomite because I read it is not compatible with fulvic acids (I do not use them anymore but when I started I had some around)

that is all i have on that

 

[Weird]

What’s up Weird. I would agree that myths concerning nutrient needs abound online and elsewhere, fairly easy to find conflicting info, studies, experiences etc.

I’m guessing that you are stating in general how it’s an issue when people argue about importance of verity of infirmation and people detracting in the thread.
Since I’m still sifting through truth, studies, experiences, I’d be surprised if it sounds like I have anything figured out for sure.

yes

and if you notice the one thing I do is compare my own work to itself and I offer to show my take on that work

someone people automatically think it is meant to compare against them instead of it encouraging people to take the leap

i grew up on the bottle

i figured this shit out over years and offer simple this is how it works methodology and people doubt it because they are so used to being sold with an agenda and comparative marketing

most people fuck up by over doing it in hopes more equals more and better when instead is is really the biggest limiter to understanding how to fine tune natural systems but what the fuck do I know i am dwight schrute with dreads

 

[Weird]

week 4

1300 watts of led then led/de then de only canopy is 11x 6

recycled soil. no chems, no gasses, no climate control

 

[PaulieWaulie]

You struck a very important point I would like to tweak just a bit with some insight

first it isn't cheapest although it works out that way

it is the most abundant sustainable highest quality local components that are least expensive and offer most benefit (local indigenous microbes are most compatible with local indigenous amendments as well as local amendments being potentially fresher)

secondarily some items are used because they provide IPM benefits as well as supplement the primary amendments

neem meal for example fills more than one roll although I do not use it in flower because I don't want azadacdrine sp* in my end product it suits a fine example of serving multiple purposes

in my garden crab meal is a huge part of my ipm and I get it fresh and cheap

and on a last note personally I never used azomite because I read it is not compatible with fulvic acids (I do not use them anymore but when I started I had some around)

that is all i have on that

Exactly, and I was trying to get crab meal, and Neem meal, and its next to impossible. Even fish meal the canadian organic supply companies can't get. They said it is all food grade, so is too costly for them to get and for consumers to pay for garden use. Neem meal,is banned by "health canada"/ or border control or whoeve, as people were using it for other things (not growing Im assuming but some kind of ingestion or medicinal use). Total amendments cost me around $500 CAD and no joke, I think its a lifetime supply.

Im happy with my mix ingredients overall, I think the most important aspect is that I am making my own EWC from 100% home use inputs - Compost (3 years in the making all kitchen scraps), guinea pig droppings, coffee grinds, leaves & stems. So it is very very rich nutrient dense, and microbe alive.

Will post pics as plants start taking off

 

[Rodehazrd]

You struck a very important point I would like to tweak just a bit with some insight

first it isn't cheapest although it works out that way

it is the most abundant sustainable highest quality local components that are least expensive and offer most benefit (local indigenous microbes are most compatible with local indigenous amendments as well as local amendments being potentially fresher)

secondarily some items are used because they provide IPM benefits as well as supplement the primary amendments

neem meal for example fills more than one roll although I do not use it in flower because I don't want azadacdrine sp* in my end product it suits a fine example of serving multiple purposes

in my garden crab meal is a huge part of my ipm and I get it fresh and cheap

and on a last note personally I never used azomite because I read it is not compatible with fulvic acids (I do not use them anymore but when I started I had some around)

that is all i have on that

Hey Weird
You stopped fulvic acids did you have a reason? I add humic on every other watering. I think it helps but never did a test to compare results with a control plant. I read that the NMR frequency increases at a certain level of humic content.

 

[paradoxlost]

Hey Weird
You stopped fulvic acids did you have a reason? I add humic on every other watering. I think it helps but never did a test to compare results with a control plant. I read that the NMR frequency increases at a certain level of humic content.

Have you noticed that using too much fulvic acid creates genetic mutations?

 

[Weird]

Hey Weird
You stopped fulvic acids did you have a reason? I add humic on every other watering. I think it helps but never did a test to compare results with a control plant. I read that the NMR frequency increases at a certain level of humic content.

forgive me but my understanding of the chemical side of soil interactions is lacking

I wanted to keep the option open so I ditched azomite but my end result was to try to get to a simple water only mix

what I do believe however is this

that maximizing soil potential is easiest achieved and sustained by a less is more mantra letting microbiology bridge the gap but also that in fine tuning any natural system over doing anything is far more harmful than under doing it

I no longer believe that optimal is a set parameter for any given situation but rather one relative to the situation

because I recycle I feel it is imperative and this has worked well for me up until now requires minimized and metered inputs to preserve robust and diverse microbiology that works in conjunction with the planting cycle

in my experience it is much easier to use a tea or a similar approach like fulvic to address problems but how does one really gauge the differential if there is not a performance basis without

I have run recycled so many times subsequently I have found that optimal expression can be had in this scenario but it took me a good 10 years of transitioning and testing with the same cultivars to get a good feel for performance and I still have so much to learn

 

[Rodehazrd]

Have you noticed that using too much fulvic acid creates genetic mutations?

Hey there Paradoxlost
I didn't know about mutations from fulvic acid I use the black diamond humic acid for two years in my non feeding drenches. I'm open to learn more. I read somewhere the Nuclear magnetic Resonant Frequency goes up at a certain level of humates. adding more caused it to decrease. I'm searching back to find the levels used in the test. The study suggested bug pressure is greatly reduced by this higher frequency. I'm not comfortable with this knowledge yet I think It is like a CEC frequency. I know more than I understand on this subject.

 

[PakSamGyiShing]

Essentially...

Essentially...

Am I correct then in thinking the sulfate combines with the potassium to lock it up again as K2so4? or is that too simplistic

This is more or less what happens. Usually if there's a big excess you sort of rely on the runoff to carry off the excess compound. So in this case if you have excessive K, and adequate Ca, adding CaS04 will deposit some of the calcium, while the S04 indeed combines with the K2 to move it out of the situation (it'll do this with excess Mg, Na, and Ammonia too). If you don't want to waste that K2S04, then applying the gypsum with compost, peat, charcoal, even bentonite clay - anything with a high CEC - will help hold onto the goodies.

 

[PakSamGyiShing]

Unless someone's growing on marl or chalk soils, calcium is always the first cation to become depleted. It's always the one that needs to be added back the most. The old expression goes "Manuring with marl (calcium) makes for rich fathers, and poor sons." This came from before NPK theory, when all else a farmer had was manure, compost and fallow for nutrient management. Adding the calcium back brought the soils into a higher productivity, but it was too much of a good thing and depleted the soils of what was left in them since the nutrients couldn't be adequately replaced and managed.

In field conditions, replacing calcium is of primary importance, in general moreso than potassium. Only on sick soils does potassium need to be supplemented - there are almost always vast, vast stores of it at different levels of accessibility in the ground. This is why many farmers find that applying manures and composts increase levels of available K by more than what comes in with the manuring (P too). This is because the microbes are fueled/cultured into greater mineralizing activity releasing the P and K from more inaccessible stores.

I've had that & it's different to lacking in Ca. I've grown maybe 200 crops in the uk not every one of them works a dream. When anything is off it detracts from optimum. But a soil test will tell you this. Growing on Peat you can't have a test Calcium is the easy one to spot if you get the pun? Far different to anothers effect that you will see in the leaf tissue. It's a blatant one.. I'd rather have to little of another macro than to little of Ca & finish up early...

 

[Rodehazrd]

This is more or less what happens. Usually if there's a big excess you sort of rely on the runoff to carry off the excess compound. So in this case if you have excessive K, and adequate Ca, adding CaS04 will deposit some of the calcium, while the S04 indeed combines with the K2 to move it out of the situation (it'll do this with excess Mg, Na, and Ammonia too). If you don't want to waste that K2S04, then applying the gypsum with compost, peat, charcoal, even bentonite clay - anything with a high CEC - will help hold onto the goodies.

Thanks for the explanation I recycle my mix and worry about a buildup in my media

 

[Weird]

some strains are finished some are finishing up

1320 watts of light, no climate control just a fan and air flow

recycled and hand watered I am planning on using bluemats again the next go round

21 plants with a 11.5 x 5.5 canopy (when I am not moving them to water/harvest)

I got distracted by and slacked on my IPM so thrips are having a feast

 

[mojave green]

some strains are finished some are finishing up

1320 watts of light, no climate control just a fan and air flow

Soo, you’re growing indoors with no climate control

 

[Weird]

Soo, you’re growing indoors with no climate control

no AC no dehumidifier no co2 no air handling controls or the costs that go with them because at 1.2 gpw 1320 watts meets my needs

you are exactly the type of troll that has sought to distract these threads by being cynical assholes with no other agenda

if you have nothing to add please go back to the rock you normally dwell under

 

[PaulieWaulie]

no AC no dehumidifier no co2 no air handling controls or the costs that go with them because at 1.2 gpw 1320 watts meets my needs

you are exactly the type of troll that has sought to distract these threads by being cynical assholes with no other agenda

if you have nothing to add please go back to the rock you normally dwell under

Don't Sweat it Weird, for every troll there are probably a good 100 that are learning from you and keeping an open mind. Climate control requirements depend on each person's environment and location. I don't use a Dehuey/AC/ Either. I just work with my environment and weather and I've been able to keep temps and RH in the optimum range no problem.


With those big bushes so close, I see a lot of larf. I assume your including that into your GPW? What do you do with it?

 

[Weird]

Don't Sweat it Weird, for every troll there are probably a good 100 that are learning from you and keeping an open mind. Climate control requirements depend on each person's environment and location. I don't use a Dehuey/AC/ Either. I just work with my environment and weather and I've been able to keep temps and RH in the optimum range no problem.


With those big bushes so close, I see a lot of larf. I assume your including that into your GPW? What do you do with it?

nope only weight that gets considered is what makes it to a jar everything else is turned to concentrates or food

for reference those pots are 15 gallon tall nursery pots and at 21 plants I only need 2.25 ounces per plant and to hit 1 gpw for 1.2 I need less than 2.75 ounces per plant

this run I ran a fair amount of cheese which is quick and on the lower end of the spectrum of yield but some of the other plants but I am still hopeful as last run far exceeded it and that is counted after it is jared not before

 

[Lapides]

What's up everyone. By the time these girls are done, the dirt they were grown in will be over 5 years old.


P1

G0rilla Glue #4

Blackstar (I think)

AJ Sour Diesel

4 plants in 25 gallon fabric pots in 2 - 2x4 tents grown under LEDs I built.


I've learned lately just how much living soil HATES cold conditions. Since I've been growing with LEDs everything has been a lot cooler, A LOT cooler in the winter. I never thought in all my years of indoor growing that I would need MORE heat. Plus I've been all over the place just trying to find a corner to grow a couple plants in. The dirt has definitely gone dead a couple times over the years from being cold or just sitting for a period of time, but a decent dose of EWC and some live worms and it's going well again in no time.

 

[Siskiyou]

Inspirational, Lapides! Big congratulations on the new little one.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

What's up everyone. By the time these girls are done, the dirt they were grown in will be over 5 years old.


P1
View Image


G0rilla Glue #4
View Image


Blackstar (I think)
View Image


AJ Sour Diesel
View Image


4 plants in 25 gallon fabric pots in 2 - 2x4 tents grown under LEDs I built.


I've learned lately just how much living soil HATES cold conditions. Since I've been growing with LEDs everything has been a lot cooler, A LOT cooler in the winter. I never thought in all my years of indoor growing that I would need MORE heat. Plus I've been all over the place just trying to find a corner to grow a couple plants in. The dirt has definitely gone dead a couple times over the years from being cold or just sitting for a period of time, but a decent dose of EWC and some live worms and it's going well again in no time.

Thats one reason some people don't have better results than with hps previously. its just the lower temps. Thats why I would do a mix of HPS and LED fixtures, and switch it up depending on the season and the room temps.

 

[Lapides]

Honestly I feel the use of HPS at any time is an utter waste of money when compared to LEDs these days.


Going forward, I'll be keeping my drivers separate, enclosed in a box or a closet with ventilation. In the cooler months I'll direct the warm air from the drivers into the flowering area and I won't have to deal with cold issues anymore.