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Living organic soil from start through recycling CONTINUED...

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
Fuckin A Weird, Here here to that. Keeping it real is the way to go.

I'm going to start coming back around these parts hopefully to spread some sustainable biological knowledge.

I have always admired you style and bluntness, its whats needed is the world of scamers, profit hawks and misinformation.

Thanks, it is so hard for people to understand my point of view. I have been making the same arguments for years. However there isn't one argument I have made here in the past ten years be it with the los crew, sam, tom, gypsy or a plethora of other big names and personalities in the business that wasn't in the interest of ALL PARTIES INVOLVED including the person I was arguing with.

This isn't a hippy parlor trick, as the same dynamic played out in the upper echelon of the IT industry I was apart of and the very same insight turned out to be true, the fruits of which either made people rich or destroyed them based on how they received the information.

It very much has to do with my mind, my decisions and my action applied to a very specific set of circumstances, the insights of which gives me a view of hte world and human nature that most people are detached from

The is no intelligence I bring to the table that is elusive of less capable minds, I wouldn't push people to recognize what they did not have the capacity to see.

Rather my insight has everything to do with the human condition and how the perception there of is biased with desire and how that influences outcome.

A life spending my life working with logic and integrating, supporting people and technology was a good basis for understanding the paradigms of the mind and how we engineer them through out own behavior.

Add to that the challenge of managing extreme physiological mental illness, the decades of experience I have doing so both in classical/formal settings and as a shaman whose relationship with the plant has been cultivated throughout my life as well but more importantly 25 years of direct experience growing for medicinal purposes.

Every bit of science I reference I observed first as a phenomenon and simply sought research that verified it. From business to horticulture the experience I bring to the table is vast.

People confuse income, even substantial income as validation of success in today's world and not the outcome of efforts applied. Same with growing, most people use very shallow metrics to judge their own works when you compare their determinants that they use to value their own success versus the ultimate potential of the plant.

There are so many facets to being successful with this plant and with the legalization of cannabis that haven't been able to be discussed because of the awful conduct here by immature and inappropriate personalities.

I appreciate they have a place to go but they are keeping everyone from reaching a full potential including the plants in their gardens as long as they don't take ownership of their ownership of their delusional and detrimental mindsets and the limits they impose on this forum.

Me, personally I rise to top in the chaos of the human condition which only helps establish value so in contrast to a lack there of so at some point trying to get people to take their heads out of their asses doesn't promise to keep my life so easy it takes no work to compete.

Yet I still haven't abandoned the notion that it would better if everyone raised the bar even if it meant I had to work more to maintain it.

Hard to understand how someone could maintain a mindset like mine until of course you reap the fruits of said mindset, which for me are measured in the results they have on elevating the human experience beyond the lowest limits of the human condition. First for myself, then for others and not for the benefit of all humanity.

Basically altruism pays off more than narcissism but most people can't leave the one realm long enough to see the benefits of the other.

Of course it isn't easy to go against the grain especially in a counter culture but if it really is about humanity and the way of the world is narcissism than going against the grain is part and parcel of elevating humanity.

However don't confuse altruism with selflessness, because it really requires that humanity as a whole benefit from the behavior including ourselves so it really is a sum is greater than the parts of the whole.

The concept itself is also revealed in the lotus sutra and is the basis of the buddhism practiced here.

Thank you for the support, it is never easy to go against the grain when your ultimate outcome is harmony because there is no reward in how it makes me feel, the only reward is in harmonious outcomes.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo this thread most certainly needs/deserves it
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
You grind that axe any longer and you'll be chopping wood with a stick.

If they don't believe your truth, maybe the problem isn't the message, but the messenger.

Best to stick to this subforum. Seem to get your nose bloodied everytime you step out.
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
You grind that axe any longer and you'll be chopping wood with a stick.


if you contribute to an organics thread with anything productive you might stop wasting time and bandwidth

if you stopped defending your lack of wherewithal you might learn something

if you had any experience with the plant you would understand the differences between a plants primary and secondary metabolite expression among variable environmental cues and have something to say other than poke fun at the terminology

if you actually plied the methods you regurgitate as if you mastered them you would have a different set of experiences and feedback to share

all you got is trying to ride my dick like a number of cliques have tried to do out of ignorance.

Yet here I am, living the dream without any of the same pains or complaints other than being stifled in sharing free information on the web in gratitude

and because I am successfully self reliant I am not afraid to be completely honest and call you out for being a complete antagonist without purpose or benefit other than to fulfill some malignant void in your being

funny thing is you don't think I notice the effects my words have had from the very beginning on the very circles I have heard them your also sadly mistaken

nice contributions in the way of putting your money where your mouth is
 

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
As a newcomer after all this "stuff" occurred, I enjoy and appreciate weird's organic growing style,experience and results, and have always thought mikell made clever and funny put comments. I think there's a place for both of you here ;)

Kind of why I am sticking around on icmag, even though the site and code is like 90's outdated (ugliest shades of green Ive ever seen), and the uploading pictures process and image downgrading being absolutely horrible to the point where I cower at the though of making a post myself of my grow, I find myself sticking around cause of all you oldtimers, each of your stories, and the history between you people.
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
You can learn a shit ton from Weird if you filter out all the emotional ranting. I did and do. But good luck to you if you happen to disagree on a few points. See above book length posts.

Ah your ol' laundry list of assumptions. I see you added dick rider.

Besides preaching down the pulpit here (or trolling the Fertilizer subforum), what else do you contribute? I rarely see hide nor hair of you in the Infirmary or elsewhere, unless you've come to start an argument.

Maybe I'm wearing the same set of blinkers as you and only see the negative.
 

Mate Dave

Propagator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I have started my own living soil out here in the Campo. I have started with horse shit & landslide. That will rest for 2 weeks till I return & amend it with more OM before testing it, I have a lab that can test in the local big town so I hope to be able to do leaf soil analysis all season & learn some new things. I'm going to spend as lil as is possible.. I am keen on applying Snow's theory on Ca & will get that right up in the 70's & I have some Vetch & oilseed reddish & some Clover & mustards to prevent erosion & create some fertility & give some biodiversity.

I won't even entertain Tim Hill or Coot or Stand mix as it seems to no do so well & there is too much no necessary things in it for where I am. Soil is soil if it's @ optimum that's it.. No need to copy everything, N is N P is P & K. I want to use local stuff from inside the Valley I'm in no import of supeflorious- unnecessary & excessive stuff cos it sounds cool on a forum.

I'm finding all this theory on soil boring as nobody has any analysis to show their side. I'm going back to work now.. Speak soon
 

h.h.

Active member
Veteran
I have started my own living soil out here in the Campo. I have started with horse shit & landslide. That will rest for 2 weeks till I return & amend it with more OM before testing it, I have a lab that can test in the local big town so I hope to be able to do leaf soil analysis all season & learn some new things. I'm going to spend as lil as is possible.. I am keen on applying Snow's theory on Ca & will get that right up in the 70's & I have some Vetch & oilseed reddish & some Clover & mustards to prevent erosion & create some fertility & give some biodiversity.

I won't even entertain Tim Hill or Coot or Stand mix as it seems to no do so well & there is too much no necessary things in it for where I am. Soil is soil if it's @ optimum that's it.. No need to copy everything, N is N P is P & K. I want to use local stuff from inside the Valley I'm in no import of supeflorious- unnecessary & excessive stuff cos it sounds cool on a forum.

I'm finding all this theory on soil boring as nobody has any analysis to show their side. I'm going back to work now.. Speak soon

I don't think I'd waste all that money on calcium theories. Chock it up to that "sounds cool" analysis.
 

Mate Dave

Propagator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It's not wasted if you get to the goal. I have never grown big trees outside except onetime in the uk when I got fusarium & lost most the plant to that. I'm expecting them to get 3x as big as that & want to know that they won't rinse out all that Ca by flower. My experience indoor has shown me that when reusing media that Ca is the most important part of my mix & usually it's missing, the water has lots of Ca but that won't do a big plant any good.. Thinking about doing a side by side if I can get this Ammo cut I'm smoking & test a few mix's. I've got some pots to grow seedlings in till transplant time.. As long as they stay green and don't get all woody then I'll be happy & I can see what the paperwork says
 

Stickybred420

Active member
so basically dolomitic lime is useless. that's good to know cause ive always felt like its un necessary and not really doing anything (for our application). Im pretty ure I added too much of the shit to my first grow and locked out a lot of shit late in the plants life. I grew with it once and basically threw it in the garbage right after. I much prefer Epsom salts dissolvedin ro water when needed than to load your soil up with that reactive shit and fuck up the soil. besides liming agents kill michroheard anyway.
 

redlaser

Active member
Veteran
spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Mg_Basics.html
^
That link has some interesting magnesium info

After reading about having too much or too little magnesium, I’ve found a few studies showing Ca-mg ratios from 4-18 to 8-4 with not much difference on the end harvested weight.
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Mg_Basics.html
^
That link has some interesting magnesium info

After reading about having too much or too little magnesium, I’ve found a few studies showing Ca-mg ratios from 4-18 to 8-4 with not much difference on the end harvested weight.

the myths regarding soil nutrients and plant expression are so grossly overstated at this point that truth is no longer appreciated and when you argue to the importance of verity of information you get people arguing how they don't detract from the thread
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
You can learn a shit ton from Weird if you filter out all the emotional ranting. I did and do. But good luck to you if you happen to disagree on a few points. See above book length posts.

Ah your ol' laundry list of assumptions. I see you added dick rider.

Besides preaching down the pulpit here (or trolling the Fertilizer subforum), what else do you contribute? I rarely see hide nor hair of you in the Infirmary or elsewhere, unless you've come to start an argument.

Maybe I'm wearing the same set of blinkers as you and only see the negative.


no because if I go to the thread search function, and then go to advanced and filter by user I can find my contributions and the constant barrage of people who don't grow los argue the against the methods regardless of the success presented benignly

i have been posting my work for a decade here in every form taking the tech and applying it, working out the bugs to help others avoid a learning curve and all these distractions have done is spend time arguing white paper versus real world application and mostly in contention to what I share

the history is there and it isn't subjective

I have posted my subsequent recycles and the success and the methodology I don' follow you around the boards hyper posting non relevant stuff because being an irritation excites me

i guess canada is that fucking boring
 

PakSamGyiShing

New member
PW, as I seem to recall Gas' mix was intended to be a water-only affair, whereas Coot's was meant to be supplemented with botanical teas throughout the grow, and topped with worm castings. This explains the differences in nutrient levels. If you do a side by side you'll need to manage them differently in order to make a fair comparison.

Another point that may or may not be relevant, is that Coot seemed to emphasize a little more than Gas on using highest quality composts (vermicomposts) which he essentially had to create himself. This could be an additional factor in the mix.

Due to having a weird selection of ingredients last year, I did something like a "modified gascanastan" grow, that had nutrient levels more inline with the Cootz mix, but ratios like Gas', and then supplemented with botanical teas, &c. I was very happy with what I was able to do given my situation and I'll run it again similarly this year with a few things added.

Some conclusions that I came to from last year are: 1) botanical treatments are amazing, especially herbal teas (chamomile, &c.) for dealing with PM, &c.; 2) Silica is amazing for cannabis, and should be included in every grow.


Im looking at doing a side by side of the 3 Main Basic Mixes By Burn 1, Coot, and Gascanstan.

Gascanstan's Mix seems to be more than 2X to 4X as high in amendments to the Coot Mix on a per Cubic Foot basis. Anyone have any thoughts input or experience on that?

(Ammendments Per/Cubic Foot)
Gascanstan

1 Cup Crab Meal
2 Cup Kelp Meal
2 Cup Fish Meal
2 Cup Fish Bone Meal
1/2 Cup SUL-PO-MAG
1 Cup Neem Seed
1/2 Cup Alfalfa Meal
1/4 Cup Lime Mix

COOTZ

1/2 Cup Neem Meal
1/2 Cup Kelp
1/2 Cup Crab Meal
4 Cups Rock MIX (4 Parts Glacial Rock Dust, 1 Part Bentonite, 1 Part Oyster Shell, 1 Part Basalt)
 

PakSamGyiShing

New member
Rh, so long as you already have near-correct levels of calcium (60+% base saturation), adding gypsum will leach the other cations off of the exchange complex, via the added sulfate.

I am just building a raised bed in my 7x9 flower room and I see a lot of posts about K and Mg levels being hard to keep down in a no till bed. In addressing your issues what do you do to keep a balance? More gypsum?:tiphat:
 

h.h.

Active member
Veteran
It's not wasted if you get to the goal. I have never grown big trees outside except onetime in the uk when I got fusarium & lost most the plant to that. I'm expecting them to get 3x as big as that & want to know that they won't rinse out all that Ca by flower. My experience indoor has shown me that when reusing media that Ca is the most important part of my mix & usually it's missing, the water has lots of Ca but that won't do a big plant any good.. Thinking about doing a side by side if I can get this Ammo cut I'm smoking & test a few mix's. I've got some pots to grow seedlings in till transplant time.. As long as they stay green and don't get all woody then I'll be happy & I can see what the paperwork says
When you're nitrogen/potassium balance is off, you get fast growth with weak cells and disease.Big, sick plants. Nothing to do with calcium.
 

Mate Dave

Propagator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I've had that & it's different to lacking in Ca. I've grown maybe 200 crops in the uk not every one of them works a dream. When anything is off it detracts from optimum. But a soil test will tell you this. Growing on Peat you can't have a test ;) Calcium is the easy one to spot if you get the pun? Far different to anothers effect that you will see in the leaf tissue. It's a blatant one.. I'd rather have to little of another macro than to little of Ca & finish up early...
 

redlaser

Active member
Veteran
the myths regarding soil nutrients and plant expression are so grossly overstated at this point that truth is no longer appreciated and when you argue to the importance of verity of information you get people arguing how they don't detract from the thread

What’s up Weird. I would agree that myths concerning nutrient needs abound online and elsewhere, fairly easy to find conflicting info, studies, experiences etc.

I’m guessing that you are stating in general how it’s an issue when people argue about importance of verity of infirmation and people detracting in the thread.
Since I’m still sifting through truth, studies, experiences, I’d be surprised if it sounds like I have anything figured out for sure.
 

PaulieWaulie

Member
Veteran
After looking at all the different Mix recipes from Burn1,Weird,Dank Frank,Nameless, Gascanstan,3 Little Birds, and COOTZ I was able to pull out an overall average recipe for myself. I realized that many ingredients are included because they were available easily and cheap for that person, not because they are considered superior and the one and only. So this is the recipe I came up with for myself, based on what I could acquire cheap and wholesale locally.

1 Cup Bonemeal
1/2 Cup Kelp
1/2 Cup Alfalfa
1/2 Cup Bloodmeal
1/2 Cup Glacial Rock Dust
1/3 Cup Oyster Shell
1/3 Cup Dolomite Lime
1/3 Cup Gypsum
1/4 Cup Azomite

50% PEAT
35% PERLITE
15% EWC (High quality fresh homemade)

Will let this cook for 4 weeks, and take a ph measurement at that time and report back here with results. Any comments are welcome!
 

Rodehazrd

Well-known member
Rh, so long as you already have near-correct levels of calcium (60+% base saturation), adding gypsum will leach the other cations off of the exchange complex, via the added sulfate.
Am I correct then in thinking the sulfate combines with the potassium to lock it up again as K2so4? or is that too simplistic:thank you:
 
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